Collapse of China

[PBS]

7 hours ago, Stardust said:

Easy answer they are not the DMSA . And you couldn't answer it to yourself even I explained it before why I took that one? But if you can read german you can go directly to their homepage on latest press releases or from the financial reports on the news outlets/tv in Germany. Go ahead feel free.

Given you present DMSA's alleged actions as critical to the PRC economy I'm interested to know why there has been, so far as I can ascertain, no recent reporting by the main stream credible media.

[Rain]

8 hours ago, Poolie said:

To be perfectly honest one thing matters on this thread. And it hasn't happened.  

Most of this thread is based on Eurocentric fallacy and traditional [even historic] China bashing.

Rather pathetic.

[ThailandRyan]

27 minutes ago, Rain said:

Most of this thread is based on Eurocentric fallacy and traditional [even historic] China bashing.

Rather pathetic.

Is this link fallacy, and China bashing. Again the iron curtain they have tried to put in place to hide this information can not be contained.

https://news.yahoo.com/nothing-left-live-evergrande-meeting-174442622.html

A compilation video that shows desperate investors confronting Evergrande staff amid the company’s financial issues has gone viral on Chinese social media platform Weibo.

The confrontation: The 10-minute-long video was published on Sept. 29 to Weibo by local news site Xing Tai Shen Bian Shi, who did not specify when and where the videos were taken,

............

• Investors have been protesting outside Evergrande since Sept. 13, according to Reuters. At one point, around 100 people had gathered outside the building, prompting the guards to form a human barricade to prevent them from getting inside.

The downfall of an empire: China Evergrande Group has become the world’s most indebted company after its liabilities piled up to more than $300 billion from years of borrowing. The financial crisis has also spilled over to the company’s wealth management arm, Evergrande Wealth.

• The Evergrande crisis has affected the global market and the crypto world, according to TRT World. The prices of Bitcoin and Etherium have reportedly dropped to their lowest since August, while traditional stocks on Wall Street, such as those in the S&P 500 and Nasdaq, suffered their biggest daily percentage drop since May.

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by ThailandRyan

[Rain]

And we continue to acknowledge who the truer boogiemen might be. 

Existing in our deepest illusion as to who we think we are. 

[Stardust]

2 hours ago, PBS said:

Given you present DMSA's alleged actions as critical to the PRC economy I'm interested to know why there has been, so far as I can ascertain, no recent reporting by the main stream credible media.

Thats a interesting question why the english speaking media is so quiet about it. My answer is Blackrock, Citi Bank, etc etc mainly American Investors get hit badly sure Fed and China Central try a soft breakdown. In the Dmsa interview they were already in contact woth both central banks and thats the discussion at the moment. By the way the Fed also angreed on the Dmsa analyzes about the defaults not only at DMSA. Til today the big investors who said they received the payments didnt sent the official confirmations.

[Stardust]

9 hours ago, Poolie said:

To be perfectly honest one thing matters on this thread. And it hasn't happened.  

Sure Evergrande has no defaults like kaisa. Even the Chinese Central would shake his head about such statements . 

[BigHewer]

One post has been removed. Members are reminded of rule #5 in the forum guidelines:

 

5. Understand that the Forum considers “Facts” to differ from a “Personal Opinion.” Facts may be inferred or quoted. Members are responsible to make sure their Posts are not misleading and do not knowingly share articles, pictures and videos previously identified as Misinformation.

Whilst opinions and rebuttal are welcome, misleading statements presented as facts are not. Please be mindful of this when posting.

Thanks,

Moderator

 

[Stardust]

14 hours ago, Poolie said:

To be perfectly honest one thing matters on this thread. And it hasn't happened.  

https://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/1527443/global-financial-crisis-china-evergrande-global-collapse-china-news

By the way do you know what is in your warships and why a single german warship (Bayern)can sail alone without a fleet through the China sea and make a meeting with the Japanese Navy and Army. Because they know everything any component of a Chinese warship, Anti submarine, etc. It is MTU and now guess where MTU is from Friedrichshafen Germany. And now guess who knows best about what they produce. Same with space navigation. They have them at their b.lls. . And why it is easy? Because the wumaos think they are big and lying even to themself. Pride becomes before the fall . And the illusions makes them so weak they even not take care that China in tech, engineering in standards ,capability more than 50 years behind. Yes pride comes before the fall. Thats why China is way way behind in the listing from Germany developped countries, economies (gross net income/ development) . Same like your statement you really think DMSA would claim anything they are not sure about or have their own confirmation. Anyway things are monitored and the world is not stupid and who think so will be the looser.

[Poolie]

Ah the old wumao defense, wonder what happened to that?

Oh yes Harvard University and Pew discounted it some years ago.

Anyway, 194 posts and still nothing.

I have things to do.

[ThailandRyan]

2 hours ago, Poolie said:

Ah the old wumao defense, wonder what happened to that?

Oh yes Harvard University and Pew discounted it some years ago.

Anyway, 194 posts and still nothing.

I have things to do.

Then go on don't bother us with the "I am leaving post"  Tootles, and be on your way....

[PBS]

4 hours ago, Stardust said:

By the way do you know what is in your warships and why a single german warship (Bayern)can sail alone without a fleet through the China sea

Germany is not the only Western nation to have sailed a sole military vessel through the South China Sea. e.g. Canada. These countries will operate in liaison with US. However, breast beating for a single frigate is somewhat ludicrous as is boasting of any military capability, Afghanistan is an excellent example. Or indeed gloating over the potential collapse of PRC financial markets which would cause pain throughout the world.

Edited November 29, 2021 by PBS

[Stardust]

2 hours ago, PBS said:

Germany is not the only Western nation to have sailed a sole military vessel through the South China Sea. e.g. Canada. These countries will operate in liaison with US. However, breast beating for a single frigate is somewhat ludicrous as is boasting of any military capability, Afghanistan is an excellent example. Or indeed gloating over the potential collapse of PRC financial markets which would cause pain throughout the world.

They know what they are doing and know everything about their capability and whats in their ships

https://www.dw.com/en/german-engine-technology-found-in-chinese-warships-report/a-59740301

They know exactly what they can do and how to knock them out in case of confrontation. If one continent knows about wars and also about the danger and consequences it is Europe.

[PBS]

9 hours ago, Stardust said:

They know what they are doing and know everything about their capability and whats in their ships

https://www.dw.com/en/german-engine-technology-found-in-chinese-warships-report/a-59740301

They know exactly what they can do and how to knock them out in case of confrontation. If one continent knows about wars and also about the danger and consequences it is Europe.

One thing for sure war plans are fine until combat commences. However, the article points to German technology being incorporated into PRC warships. We do know  currently PRC are ahead with developing some forms of weapons delivery e.g. hypersonic- swings and roundabouts. Personally I don't perceive military conflict between PRC and US allies.

[ThailandRyan]

 

https://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/1527443/global-financial-crisis-china-evergrande-global-collapse-china-news

 

 

 

China Evergrande faces £221billion of debt, and one expert has claimed the company's collapse could spark the fall of the financial system. Speaking to Express.co.uk, Dr Marco Metzler from Deutsche Marktscreening Agentur (DMSA), claimed the collapse of the Evergrande is the first domino of the eventual destruction of the world financial system. Due to the size of the property market, estimated at $55trillion (£40trillion), he claimed the collapse of China's property market, will create a worse financial meltdown than what was seen in 2008.

 

 

[Stardust]

5 hours ago, PBS said:

One thing for sure war plans are fine until combat commences. However, the article points to German technology being incorporated into PRC warships. We do know  currently PRC are ahead with developing some forms of weapons delivery e.g. hypersonic- swings and roundabouts. Personally I don't perceive military conflict between PRC and US allies.

But the germans know it exactly because there is no ship or aircraft they are able to build alone. These Clowns not even have a own gps or space navigation.

[Stardust]

5 hours ago, PBS said:

One thing for sure war plans are fine until combat commences. However, the article points to German technology being incorporated into PRC warships. We do know  currently PRC are ahead with developing some forms of weapons delivery e.g. hypersonic- swings and roundabouts. Personally I don't perceive military conflict between PRC and US allies.

You need your own gps and spacenavigation. Space navigation in China was over european companies. You remember the program where China want to produce own airliners as a 3rd producer and compete with Boing and Airbus. They thought they can be tricky or do anything on their own rules and the result was Europe companies didn't deliver the components anymore and the airliner program was dead and finish because they cannot produce an aircraft alone. Sure you have to understand tech and engineerin to understand what I am talking about but it wpuld need pages of writing I try to make it easy. Tech transfers came from Germany but you cannot jump over 70 years more experience or you cannot be ahead of your supplier. These engineerings developed over many years it is impossible to say ok tomorrow I make this chip or tech alone, it doesn't work like that. Same with military tech like a submarine oh tomorrow I build a better submarine than a german submarine while they build and experienced with that over 100 years. Sombody who really think that has zero knowledge about engineering any tech or about any development process in tech. And if you are since a long time a supplier and developer you know everything of their capabilities and every screw of their productsand production. It is their job!

[Stardust]

23 minutes ago, Stardust said:

You need your own gps and spacenavigation. Space navigation in China was over european companies. You remember the program where China want to produce own airliners as a 3rd producer and compete with Boing and Airbus. They thought they can be tricky or do anything on their own rules and the result was Europe companies didn't deliver the components anymore and the airliner program was dead and finish because they cannot produce an aircraft alone. Sure you have to understand tech and engineerin to understand what I am talking about but it wpuld need pages of writing I try to make it easy. Tech transfers came from Germany but you cannot jump over 70 years more experience or you cannot be ahead of your supplier. These engineerings developed over many years it is impossible to say ok tomorrow I make this chip or tech alone, it doesn't work like that. Same with military tech like a submarine oh tomorrow I build a better submarine than a german submarine while they build and experienced with that over 100 years. Sombody who really think that has zero knowledge about engineering any tech or about any development process in tech. And if you are since a long time a supplier and developer you know everything of their capabilities and every screw of their productsand production. It is their job!

Forgot one point because the hypersonic was mentioned. This hypersonic tech is over 60 years old and from the last century and no engineer is impressed in Europe about it bit showed the world the intension of China thats another chapter. The USA wanted to install in space something similiar (hypersonic missiles) in the late 90s, 2000 with conventional warheads and quit it because the cold war was over. We are now in 2021 and there was a lot of development the last 60 years but sure they will not discuss anything in public what is proteced by security issues. It is quite interesting that really people out there who think hypersonic tech is a new invention it is from the last century and shows they are still far behind in China but on the other hand it shows their intention and that concerns the world.

[Stardust]

Latest overview defaults Chinese bond markets

https://www.presseportal.de/en/pm/159524/5075240

 

[AussieBob]

2 hours ago, Stardust said:

Latest overview defaults Chinese bond markets

https://www.presseportal.de/en/pm/159524/5075240

The story that just keeps giving - I just love it.  It also amazes me that people are worried for China - because it may affect the western countries.  They are a corrupt evil communist dictatorship that makes the military dictatorship of Myanmar look like a founding member of Amnesty International.  The harder they fall the better for everyone in the long run.  The eminent demise of USSR saw the same BS arguments - let them collapse - in fact, do whatever can be done to force their collapse down as hard as possible. We will recover - they will not. 

[Stardust]

1 hour ago, AussieBob said:

The story that just keeps giving - I just love it.  It also amazes me that people are worried for China - because it may affect the western countries.  They are a corrupt evil communist dictatorship that makes the military dictatorship of Myanmar look like a founding member of Amnesty International.  The harder they fall the better for everyone in the long run.  The eminent demise of USSR saw the same BS arguments - let them collapse - in fact, do whatever can be done to force their collapse down as hard as possible. We will recover - they will not. 

You bring a good point. I often think when I read their comments if they would know that I heard exactly the same already in the past and i know they are wrong and that the best in decision in their life from the people who whitnessed that time of the fall of the wall and collapse of the soviet union not to listen to them. It is like a whitness now the same history again. Oh and the same rubish nonsense propaganda and they even not realize the generations who heard that garbarge before and know that it is nothing else than garbage. It is incredible. Some are brainwashed on a high level where you think it make no sense anymore to discuss anything.

[PBS]

21 hours ago, Stardust said:

But the germans know it exactly because there is no ship or aircraft they are able to build alone. These Clowns not even have a own gps or space navigation.

BS - BeiDou

https://www.voanews.com/a/east-asia-pacific_voa-news-china_chinas-rival-gps-navigation-carries-big-risks/6192460.html

[Convert54]

On 11/28/2021 at 10:15 PM, Stardust said:

Easy answer they are not the DMSA . And you couldn't answer it to yourself even I explained it before why I took that one? But if you can read german you can go directly to their homepage on latest press releases or from the financial reports on the news outlets/tv in Germany. Go ahead feel free.

The DMSA ceased to be an unbiased source of opinion the day it invested in Evergrande with the expressed intent to force bankruptcy ! It is not some major global organization that directs the international or national opinion of Treasuries etc !

When it moved from it's original role as a financial market advisory agency to a provocateur of financial collapse leaves me to wonder as to the motivation? In fact it seems contrary to the claim of advocate for consumer protection. Why the  haste?

That the DMSA has not had much in the way of open support suggests that recognition of the overall impact of forcing Bankruptcy on Evergrande has enough global negative potential to now cause even the US Fed to suggest caution.

If bankruptcy does occur the last in line with any realistic chance of payout will be foreign investors. China still requires such investment so IMO there will be a last minute resolution. 

 

[PBS]

16 hours ago, AussieBob said:

It also amazes me that people are worried for China - because it may affect the western countries

If your comment includes my post, it is a misrepresentation. All I'm saying, IMO, should there be a collapse of PRC financial markets the negative impact will be experienced globally as was the case in the US in the 2008 collapse; it will not be a one way street. Highly likely one on the most severely impacted economies would include your home country, Australia.

[AussieBob]

5 minutes ago, PBS said:

If your comment includes my post, it is a misrepresentation. All I'm saying .....

Didnt read any further. 

No - it was not about you. I know you think it is all about you. But it is not all about you.  

[mickkotlarski]

17 hours ago, AussieBob said:

The story that just keeps giving - I just love it.  It also amazes me that people are worried for China - because it may affect the western countries.  They are a corrupt evil communist dictatorship that makes the military dictatorship of Myanmar look like a founding member of Amnesty International.  The harder they fall the better for everyone in the long run.  The eminent demise of USSR saw the same BS arguments - let them collapse - in fact, do whatever can be done to force their collapse down as hard as possible. We will recover - they will not. 

If China wish to put up the iron/bamboo curtain around themselves ... be my guest.