Collapse of China

[JohninDublin]

On 10/13/2021 at 4:45 PM, Rookiescot said:

Everyone, everywhere, has bought something from China which proved to be defective.

Thats not western propaganda. Thats actual experience. 

I bought an XRF machine through Ali Baba com. Watched the video of it operating. It looked like a micro-wave and produced results in 3 seconds. Cost the equivalent of $5100 US.

When it arrived, it looked more like a mini-fridge in a steel-box. Results took 30 seconds and the handbook told me that each test should be undertaken 3-5 times and then averaged out for accuracy.

Bait and Switch anyone?

When I contacted the seller to complain about the differences in the vid and what they sent me, I was told, the machine in the vid was $9800. But the price was clearly stated at $5100 on the vid.

[JohninDublin]

On 10/14/2021 at 6:27 AM, billywillyjones said:

China's property market and its huge mounds of debt is unravelling as we speak.  There could be serious consequences for Thailand as so many Chinese investments here... 

I don't wish to seem facetious but I am assuming that these investments are mainly in buildings. So if it all goes pear-shaped, what are the Chinese going to do about it? Move the buildings to China?

[Stardust]

29 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

I am sceptical about the capability of the military in China. Though it is by far the largest standing army on the planet, we have seen how future major wars are going to be fought, which is mainly by remote control 1000's of miles away. I think the real purpose of having such a huge military is not defence against foreigners, but the possibility that their own people might revolt. 

If the US and China which I don't expect to happen, it is the the side with the better technology that will win.

There is no china tech all tech compenents comes from supplier from western countries. They even not have their own gps or space navigation. Check the aircrafts or aircraft carrier from China compare to western countries it is miles behind western tech. And don't forget USA is a Nato member and in case they would attack a Nato members all Nato members have to defend the member. Now look how many Nato members and all from countries with advanced tech and compare their capabilities with China. 

[JohninDublin]

On 10/14/2021 at 7:28 AM, Poolie said:

Any crumb of comfort that the China haters can glean from any source whatsoever will do. They arent so discerning or honest.

When you say "China haters", do you mean all those that have offered criticisms? Or is it possible to be critical without hating them.

[JohninDublin]

1 hour ago, mickkotlarski said:

BINGO!!! Yes this is firmly in my mind and the PRC has taken sequential steps to expand its trading and military oceanic posts. I can see a combined ASEAN joining the QUAD and European allies. 

I'm truly fearful about this John. I hope that early next year we could laugh it off after a Mexican standoff but unfortunately cats will make a racket then throw down. After which one or both end up with scratches.

I'm not anti Chinese. I'm fascinated by their culture and history. I have made warm acquaintances with Chinese folk bot in and outside of China. But I'm pro freedom and even though Taiwan is part of China but it has been independent long enough to warrant its own sovereignty. The waters of the Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia and Japan are theirs not China's.

If the US alone speaks out then only more hot air will be raised.

This must be a combined international league of nations negotiating. The UN alone will just be ignored by the PCR. The Sea should belong to everybody. Not China alone.

Not sure if you are aware, but the US, UK and Oz have recently signed an accord designed to ally all three against Chinese "misconduct" in the region.

[JohninDublin]

On 10/14/2021 at 10:19 AM, Poolie said:

Huawei?

Every time I hear the name Huawei, I am reminded of an English comedian, whose act included a twitch and a sound just like Huawei. 

 

[JohninDublin]

On 10/15/2021 at 2:18 AM, gummy said:

Perhaps this thread should be renamed "Collapse of the American Dream" rather than the "Collapse of China" as it appears that is what some people prefer to discuss.

Meanwhile, on the topic of China, yes I know that is boring for some of you on this Chinese thread,  it is good to note that the doom mongers of 2+  weeks ago have so far been proven wrong regarding Evergrande's collapse. Still there.

Not to say you are wrong, but Evergrande at this stage of the game should be seen as a "crack in the dam". The dam might hold, or there might be further cracks. Too early to tell. 

[JohninDublin]

On 10/15/2021 at 4:13 AM, Fluke said:

It would be nice if discussions didnt revert to the usual ; Left Wingers and Right wingers stand in opposing corners and yelling at each other "Its all your fault, we never do anything wrong"

The problem about the finger-pointing, is that it is often just another version of whataboutery. But what undermines the merit of this tactic, is that it relies on the person who invokes to ignore the fact that two wrongs don't make a right.

[JohninDublin]

On 10/15/2021 at 4:33 AM, gummy said:

At the beginning of this thread some claimed that Evergrande had collapsed. I questioned the actuality of that and I was correct, it had not collapsed hence those posters claims were false unsurprisingly.  That was on the 5th Oct and further comments suggested it would happen "shortly" ,if you care to go back and read the thread. Well shortly is a relative term so now you are extending the original "shortly" from the 5th by a further 2 weeks ?  What happens then when you are proven wrong, will shortly become maybe ? or will it be recognition that China is not on the verge of collapse and simply that the US has had their time and a new economy is becoming more dominant ?

They are becoming more dominant based on total GDP, but per capita, they are only at about 35% of the US level. That is due to them having a massive pool of labour. Putting that into perspective and allowing for PPP, it's like two businesses competing with each. The biggest (China), pays $100 per week. The smaller one (US).  pays $280. Which business would most people choose to work for if they had a choice?

Your statement is based on total GDP. China's GDP is about 20X the size of Luxemburg. But the population of China is over 2200X that of Lux. Do you think any of the Luxembourger's lose any sleep over the fact that China's total GDP is 20X of theirs. 

[JohninDublin]

On 10/15/2021 at 4:50 AM, AussieBob said:

I think we can agree to disagree on all that - although everyone knows that it is the left that rewrites history.

But just to make sure - Reagan won the Cold War - true or false?? 

False: He was out of office before it ended.

[JohninDublin]

On 10/15/2021 at 4:52 AM, Stardust said:

They really don't understand that millions of people experience China because of their job. The facts that they have customers there, their company a branch there or a productiin, making servive there, trading, etc etc they not realize that they experience China by themself and know exactly whats going on there. If they talk about they call it western propaganda or Anti Chinese. And everyone experienced how racist they are in China or treat foreigners there they even have special police units for foreigners. They hate foreigners and talk really bad about them making daily propaganda against foreigners. They are really empty heads that knowing and experience it is not the same like believe what they do like poolio and other fanatics do. Everything is western propaganda he doesnt understand facts and knowing is not the same. He doesn't get the facts that millions around the globe deal in anyway by themself with China. Some regions are more extrem and as I experienced they tell the staff to go in some parts of north east China and been there before wanna run away, south China a bit better. This you not see if you tell them Taiwan, Japan, Vietnam or Singapore. They know exactly whats going on there, the restriction and how racist and fascist this regime is and how they see foreigners. Anď by the way they know exactly how Chinese standards are or how the companies produce, etc etc, because its their job.

It's important to understand that the Chinese need to make their own people distrust foreigners. That way they will not become too excited about ideas like democracy and free speech because they came from a gwailo

[JohninDublin]

On 10/15/2021 at 5:30 AM, gummy said:

I sincerely apologise, you are absolutely correct. I will go away, boil my head and return later

Good of you to accept your mistake so graciously, notwithstanding one boiled head,

[JohninDublin]

On 10/15/2021 at 11:24 AM, gummy said:

Oh dear, more predictions from US companies.  I think Enid Blyton would be just as accurate had she been alive.

"Prediction is difficult. Especially of the future"

Nils Bohr

[AussieBob]

1 hour ago, JohninDubin said:

False: He was out of office before it ended.

False:  "Gorbachov - tear down this wall"   Reagan's administration's successes forced Gorbachov to make the changes within USSR that directly led to that exact same wall coming down in 1989, and all the subsequent changes over the years, including USSR no longer existing.  Empires are not built nor do they fall apart in one day. 

[HiuMak]

I am neither pro American or pro Chinese. The U.S and its allies has to recognise that another super power from the east has surfaced and it is a force to be reckoned with. Trying to stop China from advancement comes in too slow too late. The chinese has already landed in the moon, they are not behind in technology and infrastructure. The U.S and EU has to try and live together with another contender to benefit the world not destroy each other.

[mickkotlarski]

8 hours ago, JohninDubin said:

Not sure if you are aware, but the US, UK and Oz have recently signed an accord designed to ally all three against Chinese "misconduct" in the region.

Yes! Fully aware.

[Stardust]

6 hours ago, JohninDubin said:

Not to say you are wrong, but Evergrande at this stage of the game should be seen as a "crack in the dam". The dam might hold, or there might be further cracks. Too early to tell. 

Exactly and too late and too little to hold the dam. Everything build on sand, fake and the bubbles are bursting. The believers and propaganda brainwashed have to face the fake realities of these sand castles and the reality of this regime. It is not by accident they have the great fire wall, censor everything and build up a brutal fascist control system of all citizens.

 

https://news.yahoo.com/too-little-too-evergrandes-tortuous-101945261.html

 

[Stardust]

4 hours ago, HiuMak said:

I am neither pro American or pro Chinese. The U.S and its allies has to recognise that another super power from the east has surfaced and it is a force to be reckoned with. Trying to stop China from advancement comes in too slow too late. The chinese has already landed in the moon, they are not behind in technology and infrastructure. The U.S and EU has to try and live together with another contender to benefit the world not destroy each other.

You have really no knowledge about tech and engineering or Europe. There is no Chinese tech all tech components are from suppliers mostly from europe and western countries. If you ever worked for a german engeineering or tech company or of their multynational companies who have their branches also in China you would. Any german engineer is loughing about such statements without any backround knowledge. There is no train, aircraft, car or anything without european companies or any smart phone, notebook or pc in China with tech components supply to China. They not even have the chipstech for it. Where do you think they get that one? I guess this you don't know, too.

[Stardust]

5 hours ago, JohninDubin said:

They are becoming more dominant based on total GDP, but per capita, they are only at about 35% of the US level. That is due to them having a massive pool of labour. Putting that into perspective and allowing for PPP, it's like two businesses competing with each. The biggest (China), pays $100 per week. The smaller one (US).  pays $280. Which business would most people choose to work for if they had a choice?

Your statement is based on total GDP. China's GDP is about 20X the size of Luxemburg. But the population of China is over 2200X that of Lux. Do you think any of the Luxembourger's lose any sleep over the fact that China's total GDP is 20X of theirs. 

Exactly China us still listed as a develoonentcountry and one reason ist the gross net income is 600 usd and now compare it with europe and developed countries. Sometimes I really think that some lost the sense of the reality ir believing in fairy tales or why they fact resistant? Brainwashed? There is a reason why China is not listed in the ranks of mist developed countries and also their zero knowledge about tech, engineering the reality on productions. They have never been in any factories in China otherwise they would understand productions, where the machines comes from or where the compenent comes from or why they cannot produce any car, train, aircraft or anything in China. These posters think if a company produce a notebook, phone, car or anything it is chinese technology, their level of knowledge is really incredible.

[Stardust]

5 hours ago, JohninDubin said:

"Prediction is difficult. Especially of the future"

Nils Bohr

Thats why it is enough just to see the facts and reality of China and they are for sure not as they want to sell it to the world.

[Stardust]

6 hours ago, JohninDubin said:

False: He was out of office before it ended.

And there are few factors more like the east german revolution who brought the wall down.

[Stardust]

5 hours ago, AussieBob said:

False:  "Gorbachov - tear down this wall"   Reagan's administration's successes forced Gorbachov to make the changes within USSR that directly led to that exact same wall coming down in 1989, and all the subsequent changes over the years, including USSR no longer existing.  Empires are not built nor do they fall apart in one day. 

There were some more factors and as witness because I was at this time in germany it was not Reagan who brought the wall down it was the east german revolution and people who brought it down and it was Gorbatchow who told Honeker people who not understand the signs of the time will be punished from the life. And there was hungary, czech slowakia and west german politicians were involved in that and Nato member countries. Reagan was 100% for sure not the main reason but surly he supported all what was going on. To not see all the main factors means not to understand the history and who brought the wall to fall. What you say is not what actual happened there and all whitnesses and all who were involved will disagree with you.

[Stardust]

5 hours ago, AussieBob said:

False:  "Gorbachov - tear down this wall"   Reagan's administration's successes forced Gorbachov to make the changes within USSR that directly led to that exact same wall coming down in 1989, and all the subsequent changes over the years, including USSR no longer existing.  Empires are not built nor do they fall apart in one day. 

Did you ever heard of Genscher? Your interpretation of this history is completly wrong. It was not Reagan there were others who made this negoiations with Gorbatchow and break the dam.

[Stardust]

5 hours ago, AussieBob said:

False:  "Gorbachov - tear down this wall"   Reagan's administration's successes forced Gorbachov to make the changes within USSR that directly led to that exact same wall coming down in 1989, and all the subsequent changes over the years, including USSR no longer existing.  Empires are not built nor do they fall apart in one day. 

By the way this slogan tear down the wall was when west germany invited Reagan to Berlin. But this doesn't mean he did, with claiming that would like a rewrite the history of Europe and rewrite the history of east germany and eastern european countries. Rewrite the revolution in Romenia against Chowchesco. Your claim is absurd and I agree on almost other of your comments regarding political or economic situations in the world.

[Convert54]

12 hours ago, JohninDubin said:

I am sceptical about the capability of the military in China. Though it is by far the largest standing army on the planet, we have seen how future major wars are going to be fought, which is mainly by remote control 1000's of miles away. I think the real purpose of having such a huge military is not defence against foreigners, but the possibility that their own people might revolt. 

If the US and China which I don't expect to happen, it is the the side with the better technology that will win.

I agree in a general sense. An interesting fact is it was the imposition of regulatory changes back in 2020 that started to damage the financial viability of not only Evergrande. I cannot discount my personal speculation that the CCP has engineered a situation that in the end result will curtail the Chinese version of"Perestroika" and re-establish full State control over many sectors. Something that matches a lot of commentary about Xi's authoritarian influence.

As for the military capacity I would consider it speculative in that there is so much propaganda touted on all sides in the renewed "arms race" if all of were to be put fully to the test the only decisive outcome could be horrific destruction not confined . In quite recent times China  has successfully tested a ICBM which in a final showdown puts stain on the picture of security in remoteness. Brinkmanship is again the tactic and I too hope technology is not tested against resolve.