Collapse of China

[Stardust]

5 hours ago, palooka said:

Found over the years that when these guys (BLackrock etc) say buy, run like hell because they are selling out and need idiots to buy the stock they are dumping.

Exactly, just pushing that their own ass is safe.

[Stardust]

Chinas state-owned ship builder goes bankrupt

 

 

[ThailandRyan]

8 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Chinas state-owned ship builder goes bankrupt

The fallout has begun and it unfortunately does no look or bode well.  No matter how much positive spin China puts on it, like with Covid, the financial hit is going to be huge.  But do not worry China will be just fine as the few forum members believe it to be true, even Xi the President for Life believes it is all under control and that is why the new stories are of Reunification with Taiwan.

[Stardust]

More companies caught up in the Evergrande collapse

 

 

 

[Stardust]

18 hours ago, Stardust said:

Chinas state-owned ship builder goes bankrupt

Hybrid tech China

 

 

 

[ThailandRyan]

And the sale for Evergrande was delayed yesterday as it was not approved.

https://www.newsweek.com/evergrande-sale-delayed-company-seeks-avoid-default-other-firms-continue-spiral-1640537 

 

The Evergrande Group found its plan to sell a majority stake in its property services unit to Hopson Development delayed after failing to gain approval from the Guangdong provincial government overseeing the company's restructuring, according to Reuters.

This keeps Evergrande, the world's most indebted property developer, facing dues of over $300 billion, away from the $2.6 billion it would have earned from the deal in wake of a Saturday deadline on the 30-day grace period following its missed bond payment in September.

Along with this shelved deal, China saw its real estate sector take further hits. Sinic Holdings declared default and Kaisa Group saw its credit rating downgraded. This follows announcements that China Properties Group defaulted on a loan and that Fantasia could not make recent payments, along with other companies facing credit rating drops.

Despite the recent sequence of events, the People's Bank of China, the country's central banking authority, told creditors to stay calm.

 

[Stardust]

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

And the sale for Evergrande was delayed yesterday as it was not approved.

https://www.newsweek.com/evergrande-sale-delayed-company-seeks-avoid-default-other-firms-continue-spiral-1640537 

The Evergrande Group found its plan to sell a majority stake in its property services unit to Hopson Development delayed after failing to gain approval from the Guangdong provincial government overseeing the company's restructuring, according to Reuters.

This keeps Evergrande, the world's most indebted property developer, facing dues of over $300 billion, away from the $2.6 billion it would have earned from the deal in wake of a Saturday deadline on the 30-day grace period following its missed bond payment in September.

Along with this shelved deal, China saw its real estate sector take further hits. Sinic Holdings declared default and Kaisa Group saw its credit rating downgraded. This follows announcements that China Properties Group defaulted on a loan and that Fantasia could not make recent payments, along with other companies facing credit rating drops.

Despite the recent sequence of events, the People's Bank of China, the country's central banking authority, told creditors to stay calm.

Yes the next default 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-20/chinese-developer-sinic-defaults-as-evergrande-contagion-spreads

 

[Rookiescot]

What happened to Poolie?

He was all over this thread telling everyone that there was nothing to see here.

[Stardust]

To understand the situation in China you have to know that all is on loans and debts. China is still listed as a developpment country because of a low gross net income and bad infrastructure.

 

 

[Stardust]

Trillions in defaulting debts in China. Another Virus from China

 

 

 

[Stardust]

How China shot in his own foot and the Chinese economy is collapsing because of that. No more electricity for the factories in China

 

 

[gummy]

Oh dear, looks like all the China haters had a full breakfast today . Remember all the Experts on here spouting their anti China rhetoric about Evergrade going bust soon ? Well looks like having a full  American breakfast have left some of you with egg on your face.

Evergrande shares rise on report of bond interest payment - BBC News

 

[ThailandRyan]

7 hours ago, gummy said:

Oh dear, looks like all the China haters had a full breakfast today . Remember all the Experts on here spouting their anti China rhetoric about Evergrade going bust soon ? Well looks like having a full  American breakfast have left some of you with egg on your face.

Evergrande shares rise on report of bond interest payment - BBC News

Robbing Peter to pay Paul comes to mind. Yet their issues have caused dozens more to go into default on their payments.  When your company owner has to borrow from friends and clean out his accounts to stay in receivership I guess you call it a win. Still far from over as it was 1 of many bond payments they missed, but at the stroke of midnight pulled a rabbit out of the hat to stay one foot ahead of the undertaker.

Edited October 22, 2021 by ThailandRyan

[Stardust]

53 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Robbing Peter to pay Paul comes to mind. Yet their issues have caused dozens more to go into default on their payments.  When your company owner has to borrow from friends and clean out his accounts to stay in receivership I guess you call it a win. Still far from over as it was 1 of many bond payments they missed, but at the stroke of midnight pulled a rabbit out of the hat to stay one foot ahead of the undertaker.

Some think really trillions of usd on loans they are not able to pay back, missed any payments and cannot pay the bills of their supplier and their staff must be a win.

[Stardust]

8 hours ago, gummy said:

Oh dear, looks like all the China haters had a full breakfast today . Remember all the Experts on here spouting their anti China rhetoric about Evergrade going bust soon ? Well looks like having a full  American breakfast have left some of you with egg on your face.

Evergrande shares rise on report of bond interest payment - BBC News

Comon they got a fund to pay 83.5 million for the interest of a bond. Now a little bit math! They amount they have to pay is 305 billion usd! Read the facts and all their defaults including unpaid bills. So where are these billions come from? Approx a trillion usd when you count all together their defaults.

[Stardust]

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

Robbing Peter to pay Paul comes to mind. Yet their issues have caused dozens more to go into default on their payments.  When your company owner has to borrow from friends and clean out his accounts to stay in receivership I guess you call it a win. Still far from over as it was 1 of many bond payments they missed, but at the stroke of midnight pulled a rabbit out of the hat to stay one foot ahead of the undertaker.

Yes exactly and everybody now is interested how they pay the rest if they could find just a fund of 83.5 million usd just to pay one part of intrests of the bonds with a total of 305 billions usd. 

[Stardust]

8 hours ago, gummy said:

Oh dear, looks like all the China haters had a full breakfast today . Remember all the Experts on here spouting their anti China rhetoric about Evergrade going bust soon ? Well looks like having a full  American breakfast have left some of you with egg on your face.

Evergrande shares rise on report of bond interest payment - BBC News

Did you really understand all?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/22/china-evergrande-will-make-crucial-bond-payment-to-avert-looming-default-reports

[Stardust]

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

Robbing Peter to pay Paul comes to mind. Yet their issues have caused dozens more to go into default on their payments.  When your company owner has to borrow from friends and clean out his accounts to stay in receivership I guess you call it a win. Still far from over as it was 1 of many bond payments they missed, but at the stroke of midnight pulled a rabbit out of the hat to stay one foot ahead of the undertaker.

Exactly and if someone can understand the real numbers will come on the ground of the reality and numbers not care what people believe or their ideologies.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/22/china-evergrande-will-make-crucial-bond-payment-to-avert-looming-default-reports

 

[JohninDublin]

On 10/12/2021 at 11:30 AM, palooka said:

I always thought it to be the South of China Sea, which geographically it is.

And on that subject, the French call "The English Channel", "La Manche" (The Sleeve). While the Irish call "St George's Channel", the "Irish Sea".

[JohninDublin]

On 10/12/2021 at 11:31 AM, Fluke said:

Although Hong Kong is a separate jurisdiction and isn't governed by Chinese law and still has a certain amount of independence ,,,

Unfortunately that independence is swiftly waning as Beijing has no compunction about attacking decisions made by the judiciary in HK, that they are aggrieved by.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-54899171

[JohninDublin]

On 10/12/2021 at 11:34 AM, mickkotlarski said:

Actually this was another poorly phrased comment. Blockage is the wrong word. Policing naval reminiscence is closer. As you stated the vast offshore territory that China claims is just that. Hence the naval response as the partial isolation and territory loss is a stark reality. 

I don't know if anyone has posted about it, but is anyone aware of China building Islands in the SC Sea as a ruse to expand their Continental Shelf rights?

In case anyone doesn't understand it, under international law all countries with a coast line are given the exclusive rights to exploit the resources under the sea within 200 miles of their coastline, but if there is another country within that 200 miles, the CS is limited to the mid-point between those two countries. Thus the Anglo/French CS at it's narrowest point extends about 10.5 miles. 

So imagine a scenario where two countries are 300 miles apart, the CS is set at not more than 150 miles in favour of each country. What China has been doing is building artificial islands within their own CS, and then claiming that these islands are part of China, and thus extending their CS claims. So if they build an island right at the edge of their current CS, they then make claims on the seabed rights to an area up to area of 125k sq miles. That's about the size of New Mexico, but as half of that will already be in their own legitimate CS, it is still nearly the size of Missouri.

The matter regarding expanded CS rights by this tactic had been awaiting a decision from the UN for several years, but it seems that China has no limit to tricks up their sleeves.

https://qz.com/347684/chinas-island-building-spree-is-about-more-than-just-military-might/

[JohninDublin]

On 10/12/2021 at 12:11 PM, Poolie said:

I think you'll find that that's America re: Huawei's CEO and Alstom's director.

On the subject of Huawei, I remember hearing them say in no uncertain terms, that they would not allow China to force them to use their technology against other countries. 

Yeah! I am sure that Huawei's promise is unbreakable.

[mickkotlarski]

1 minute ago, JohninDubin said:

I don't know if anyone has posted about it, but is anyone aware of China building Islands in the SC Sea as a ruse to expand their Continental Shelf rights?

In case anyone doesn't understand it, under international law all countries with a coast line are given the exclusive rights to exploit the resources under the sea within 200 miles of their coastline, but if there is another country within that 200 miles, the CS is limited to the mid-point between those two countries. Thus the Anglo/French CS at it's narrowest point extends about 10.5 miles. 

So imagine a scenario where two countries are 300 miles apart, the CS is set at not more than 150 miles in favour of each country. What China has been doing is building artificial islands within their own CS, and then claiming that these islands are part of China, and thus extending their CS claims. So if they build an island right at the edge of their current CS, they then make claims on the seabed rights to an area up to area of 125k sq miles. That's about the size of New Mexico, but as half of that will already be in their own legitimate CS, it is still nearly the size of Missouri.

The matter regarding expanded CS rights by this tactic had been awaiting a decision from the UN for several years, but it seems that China has no limit to tricks up their sleeves.

https://qz.com/347684/chinas-island-building-spree-is-about-more-than-just-military-might/

BINGO!!! Yes this is firmly in my mind and the PRC has taken sequential steps to expand its trading and military oceanic posts. I can see a combined ASEAN joining the QUAD and European allies. 

I'm truly fearful about this John. I hope that early next year we could laugh it off after a Mexican standoff but unfortunately cats will make a racket then throw down. After which one or both end up with scratches.

I'm not anti Chinese. I'm fascinated by their culture and history. I have made warm acquaintances with Chinese folk bot in and outside of China. But I'm pro freedom and even though Taiwan is part of China but it has been independent long enough to warrant its own sovereignty. The waters of the Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia and Japan are theirs not China's.

If the US alone speaks out then only more hot air will be raised.

This must be a combined international league of nations negotiating. The UN alone will just be ignored by the PCR. The Sea should belong to everybody. Not China alone.

[JohninDublin]

On 10/13/2021 at 5:58 AM, Poolie said:

No. I'm not.

No-one is. Another western myth.

Of course just speaking hypothetically, if you were and outed yourself, those money transfers from Beojing would come to an end (hahaha).

[JohninDublin]

On 10/13/2021 at 3:55 PM, Convert54 said:

In recognition of the reality that as a rising economic contender China has rapidly developed a military defense capacity that despite propagandist claims from either side is debatable as to superiority.

I am sceptical about the capability of the military in China. Though it is by far the largest standing army on the planet, we have seen how future major wars are going to be fought, which is mainly by remote control 1000's of miles away. I think the real purpose of having such a huge military is not defence against foreigners, but the possibility that their own people might revolt. 

If the US and China which I don't expect to happen, it is the the side with the better technology that will win.