Collapse of China

[Rookiescot]

9 minutes ago, Fluke said:

OK, go ahead, do state what the Left have done wrong . 

Wrong thread way off topic. If you want a list start another thread and we can chat in there.

[Fluke]

4 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Wrong thread way off topic. If you want a list start another thread and we can chat in there.

Done , new thread started .  

[Rookiescot]

6 minutes ago, gummy said:

At the beginning of this thread some claimed that Evergrande had collapsed. I questioned the actuality of that and I was correct, it had not collapsed hence those posters claims were false unsurprisingly.  That was on the 5th Oct and further comments suggested it would happen "shortly" ,if you care to go back and read the thread. Well shortly is a relative term so now you are extending the original "shortly" from the 5th by a further 2 weeks ?  What happens then when you are proven wrong, will shortly become maybe ? or will it be recognition that China is not on the verge of collapse and simply that the US has had their time and a new economy is becoming more dominant ?

Take it up with those posters then. No idea why you are quoting me.

[Rookiescot]

2 minutes ago, Fluke said:

Done , new thread started .  

Where did you put it?

 

[Fluke]

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

Where did you put it?

On the forums list of categories, its down the bottom , one above the last one .

"Rest of World" 

[gummy]

6 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Take it up with those posters then. No idea why you are quoting me.

Sorry  but I never specifically quoted you at all. Suggest you re-read my post. In fact I only quoted one word from your post which was "shortly", in quotation marks, understand ? So instead of being evasive, why not answer the question I posed to you ?

 

6 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

At the beginning of this thread some claimed that Evergrande had collapsed. I questioned the actuality of that and I was correct, it had not collapsed hence those posters claims were false unsurprisingly.  That was on the 5th Oct and further comments suggested it would happen "shortly" ,if you care to go back and read the thread. Well shortly is a relative term so now you are extending the original "shortly" from the 5th by a further 2 weeks ?  What happens then when you are proven wrong, will shortly become maybe ? or will it be recognition that China is not on the verge of collapse and simply that the US has had their time and a new economy is becoming more dominant ?

 

[AussieBob]

46 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

The problem with the right wing desperately trying to rewrite history is that to do that you need to wait till everyone who was around at the time is dead. Otherwise its a pointless exercise and simply makes people look silly.

Thatcher and Reagan introduced neoliberalism. They deregulated the banking and financial institutions. Selling it as "They will regulate themselves". They let the genie out of the bottle. The right wing own it.

Clinton did indeed put the final nail in the coffin but it was the right wing governments of Thatcher and Reagan who did most of the damage.

I think we can agree to disagree on all that - although everyone knows that it is the left that rewrites history.

But just to make sure - Reagan won the Cold War - true or false?? 

[Stardust]

3 hours ago, AussieBob said:

Very true. I was involved in IT business or over 30 years - absolutely true.

They really don't understand that millions of people experience China because of their job. The facts that they have customers there, their company a branch there or a productiin, making servive there, trading, etc etc they not realize that they experience China by themself and know exactly whats going on there. If they talk about they call it western propaganda or Anti Chinese. And everyone experienced how racist they are in China or treat foreigners there they even have special police units for foreigners. They hate foreigners and talk really bad about them making daily propaganda against foreigners. They are really empty heads that knowing and experience it is not the same like believe what they do like poolio and other fanatics do. Everything is western propaganda he doesnt understand facts and knowing is not the same. He doesn't get the facts that millions around the globe deal in anyway by themself with China. Some regions are more extrem and as I experienced they tell the staff to go in some parts of north east China and been there before wanna run away, south China a bit better. This you not see if you tell them Taiwan, Japan, Vietnam or Singapore. They know exactly whats going on there, the restriction and how racist and fascist this regime is and how they see foreigners. Anď by the way they know exactly how Chinese standards are or how the companies produce, etc etc, because its their job.

[Rookiescot]

34 minutes ago, gummy said:

Sorry  but I never specifically quoted you at all. Suggest you re-read my post. In fact I only quoted one word from your post which was "shortly", in quotation marks, understand ? So instead of being evasive, why not answer the question I posed to you ?

Think you have the wrong person here. In my post which you quoted I never even used the word shortly.

You are now insisting I explain something I didnt say.

Like I said. Take it up with whoever it is said what you are claiming.

[Rookiescot]

33 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

I think we can agree to disagree on all that - although everyone knows that it is the left that rewrites history.

But just to make sure - Reagan won the Cold War - true or false?? 

Everyone knows its the left who rewrite history? Everyone?

Reagan didnt "win" the cold war. Russia decided to change its own political system. So the cold war ended. If Gorbachev had not changed Russia the cold war would still be going. 

[gummy]

6 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Think you have the wrong person here. In my post which you quoted I never even used the word shortly.

You are now insisting I explain something I didnt say.

Like I said. Take it up with whoever it is said what you are claiming.

I sincerely apologise, you are absolutely correct. I will go away, boil my head and return later

[Poolie]

Thread has been derailed. Usual suspects, I despair.

[AussieBob]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

Everyone knows its the left who rewrite history? Everyone?

Reagan didnt "win" the cold war. Russia decided to change its own political system. So the cold war ended. If Gorbachev had not changed Russia the cold war would still be going. 

And there you go again re-writing history, because to give Reagan the credit for what he and his Administration did to crush the USSR is just not in your genetics. No we dont agree and we never will, because I am student of history and you are a passive observer with cognitive bias, as you have just proved.

[AussieBob]

1 hour ago, Stardust said:

They really don't understand that millions of people experience China because of their job. The facts that they have customers there, their company a branch there or a productiin, making servive there, trading, etc etc they not realize that they experience China by themself and know exactly whats going on there. If they talk about they call it western propaganda or Anti Chinese. And everyone experienced how racist they are in China or treat foreigners there they even have special police units for foreigners. They hate foreigners and talk really bad about them making daily propaganda against foreigners. They are really empty heads that knowing and experience it is not the same like believe what they do like poolio and other fanatics do. Everything is western propaganda he doesnt understand facts and knowing is not the same. He doesn't get the facts that millions around the globe deal in anyway by themself with China. Some regions are more extrem and as I experienced they tell the staff to go in some parts of north east China and been there before wanna run away, south China a bit better. This you not see if you tell them Taiwan, Japan, Vietnam or Singapore. They know exactly whats going on there, the restriction and how racist and fascist this regime is and how they see foreigners. Anď by the way they know exactly how Chinese standards are or how the companies produce, etc etc, because its their job.

Yes it always amazes me how ignorant of the truth about China that many people want to be because it does not fit their personal or political narrative. As someone that knows first hand of the Chinese 'system', and as someone guilty of taking advantage of it, I am truly 'informed' and yes I did know because it was my job.  Yes I had reservations way back in the early 90s, but I somehow always believed that there would be flow-on benefits to the people of China and subsequent changes to their communist dictatorship - sort of like what happened in USSR.  Wrong! And I really always knew that - but I looked the other way.  I guess that guilt is why I am so anti-Chinese - but that is not why I am so ambivalent towards the ignorant ones who support China.  I will tease them a little, but they are ignorant idiots and I have learned you cant fix stupid. The truth about China will out - it always does eventually - and things will change and perceptions and views will change because of that.  But even when that happens, the ignorants and idiots will never question their own past stupidity - they will morph the reasons for the change in the views towards China  into their own narrative.  Plus they will have totally forgotten what they said years ago about China - that is why they are and will remain ignorant and stupid - it is what they do. 

[Poolie]

5 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

Yes it always amazes me how ignorant of the truth about China that many people want to be because it does not fit their personal or political narrative. As someone that knows first hand of the Chinese 'system', and as someone guilty of taking advantage of it, I am truly 'informed' and yes I did know because it was my job.  Yes I had reservations way back in the early 90s, but I somehow always believed that there would be flow-on benefits to the people of China and subsequent changes to their communist dictatorship - sort of like what happened in USSR.  Wrong! And I really always knew that - but I looked the other way.  I guess that guilt is why I am so anti-Chinese - but that is not why I am so ambivalent towards the ignorant ones who support China.  I will tease them a little, but they are ignorant idiots and I have learned you cant fix stupid. The truth about China will out - it always does eventually - and things will change and perceptions and views will change because of that.  But even when that happens, the ignorants and idiots will never question their own past stupidity - they will morph the reasons for the change in the views towards China  into their own narrative.  Plus they will have totally forgotten what they said years ago about China - that is why they are and will remain ignorant and stupid - it is what they do. 

Ignorant and stupid? I give up. There's more ignorance and stupidity in that one statement than the population of China. There's no way forward for people with such a mindset, people who are always 'going' to do something but always find a convenient excuse.

The advance of China hasn't been an accident, and it continues. That's a fact and there's no denying it. Over 40 years it's been remarkable and those who find reasons why it hasn't aren't fooling anyone except themselves. That's your ignorance and stupidity personified.

I wish you a good day.

[AussieBob]

This below is for @Poolie  

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-27/china-ghost-cities-show-growth-driven-by-debt/9912186

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-06/china-property-bubble-may-be-about-to-burst-hurting-australia/100435868

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/china-evergrande-debt-property/2021/10/12/403d48ca-2b1a-11ec-b17d-985c186de338_story.html

Evergrande is set to officially 'default' on October 23rd.  Several Chinese real estate developers have warned of defaults on bonds in recent days, including Modern Land and Sinic Holdings, which said Monday it probably would be unable to repay a $250 million bond by the Oct 18 due date.  And I just love the ABC quote from their article - it's one of Hemingway's best lines, from The Sun Also Rises.  "How did you go broke?" Bill asked.  "Two ways," said Mike. "Gradually ...... and then .... Suddenly."

And the property bust is not by any means the biggest economic problem facing China. Post-Covid there is a growing and unstoppable anti-China sentiment happening worldwide.  Everything is under threat in China and that is why they are desperately trying to close all the holes. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58417234

Will China change and restructure in time? I think not. Too little too late - just like Mike.

 

[Stardust]

52 minutes ago, Poolie said:

Ignorant and stupid? I give up. There's more ignorance and stupidity in that one statement than the population of China. There's no way forward for people with such a mindset, people who are always 'going' to do something but always find a convenient excuse.

The advance of China hasn't been an accident, and it continues. That's a fact and there's no denying it. Over 40 years it's been remarkable and those who find reasons why it hasn't aren't fooling anyone except themselves. That's your ignorance and stupidity personified.

I wish you a good day.

Haha sure thats why China is still listed as a development Country. Empty heads really don't understand the difference between believing and knowing between ccp fairy tales and reality. The empty really not that millions are experience on a daily basis the reality and standards of China because of their job. They know it by experience and your politburo fairy tales not work, but I guess it is too much for you to understand. You even don't understand the difference between standards Europe, Germany and China or why China isn't innovative. Sombody who came by work from these countries to China and see this liw level standards of China is shocked because a lot thought they are on a much more higher standards. But after experienced once they know why China is still listed as a development country and that the most are fairy tales from the empty heads.

[Stardust]

1 hour ago, Poolie said:

Ignorant and stupid? I give up. There's more ignorance and stupidity in that one statement than the population of China. There's no way forward for people with such a mindset, people who are always 'going' to do something but always find a convenient excuse.

The advance of China hasn't been an accident, and it continues. That's a fact and there's no denying it. Over 40 years it's been remarkable and those who find reasons why it hasn't aren't fooling anyone except themselves. That's your ignorance and stupidity personified.

I wish you a good day.

Advanced you should vist a doctor because of haluzunating. China is listed as development country and is on the OECD listing like others development countries. There is no China in the list of developped Countries. Learn first the difference between the standards of developped countries and undevelopped countries like China. Big populatiin doesn't mean developped there are some criterias like standards and cross net income. This fairy tale chinese dreamers should take their medics. They think their bring higher standards or like a developped country or make China innovative like high developped countries. These guys are really brainwashed and lost any sense of the reality

 

[ThailandRyan]

8 hours ago, gummy said:

Perhaps this thread should be renamed "Collapse of the American Dream" rather than the "Collapse of China" as it appears that is what some people prefer to discuss.

Meanwhile, on the topic of China, yes I know that is boring for some of you on this Chinese thread,  it is good to note that the doom mongers of 2+  weeks ago have so far been proven wrong regarding Evergrande's collapse. Still there.

They only have one more chance to meet the repayment terms and that is coming up very soon as it is the last chance then DEFAULT.  That will be ugly. As I posted last night the Chinese government will not help to bail out Evergrande.

https://today.in-24.com/News/380770.html

 

The Chinese government will not bail out large real estate company Evergrande, which is in a financial crisis and keeps markets nervous, at least it predicts so Global Ratings, the US risk rating agency.

“We do not expect the government to provide no direct support to Evergrande“ Said the agency in an official statement.

“Beijing will only be forced to intervene if there is a wide-ranging contagion that causes the failure of several major developers. and pose systemic risks to the economy“ They indicated from the rating agency, according to a CNBC report.

According to S&P, if it’s just the Evergrande crash, it will be hard to see the government go straight in. So that The chances are less and less that Xi Jinping, the president of China, will decide to undertake financial aid.

 

[gummy]

8 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

They only have one more chance to meet the repayment terms and that is coming up very soon as it is the last chance then DEFAULT.  That will be ugly. As I posted last night the Chinese government will not help to bail out Evergrande.

https://today.in-24.com/News/380770.html

The Chinese government will not bail out large real estate company Evergrande, which is in a financial crisis and keeps markets nervous, at least it predicts so Global Ratings, the US risk rating agency.

“We do not expect the government to provide no direct support to Evergrande“ Said the agency in an official statement.

“Beijing will only be forced to intervene if there is a wide-ranging contagion that causes the failure of several major developers. and pose systemic risks to the economy“ They indicated from the rating agency, according to a CNBC report.

According to S&P, if it’s just the Evergrande crash, it will be hard to see the government go straight in. So that The chances are less and less that Xi Jinping, the president of China, will decide to undertake financial aid.

Oh dear, more predictions from US companies.  I think Enid Blyton would be just as accurate had she been alive.

[Fluke]

4 minutes ago, gummy said:

Oh dear, more predictions from US companies.  I think Enid Blyton would be just as accurate had she been alive.

Do you think that all predictions by U.S companies are just false scaremongering propaganda with no basis in fact ?

[gummy]

1 minute ago, Fluke said:

Do you think that all predictions by U.S companies are just false scaremongering propaganda with no basis in fact ?

I put as much credence in American companies attempting to indoctrinate the world as to how bad China is as I do in Chinese companies attempting to indoctrinate the world how bad the US is.  They are as good or as bad as each other, its just that US "experts" have been fooling the world a lot longer.

[Fluke]

4 minutes ago, gummy said:

I put as much credence in American companies attempting to indoctrinate the world as to how bad China is as I do in Chinese companies attempting to indoctrinate the world how bad the US is.  They are as good or as bad as each other, its just that US "experts" have been fooling the world a lot longer.

Do you think that the Chinese Evergrande company is in financial difficulty and may possibly collapse and go into administration, or do you think its just USA propergander ?

[Stardust]

23 minutes ago, Fluke said:

Do you think that all predictions by U.S companies are just false scaremongering propaganda with no basis in fact ?

By the way it is not only the U.S Companies from Japan til Europe have similiar views on the reality of China. They always forget they not made a good example of themself around the globe.

[gummy]

57 minutes ago, Fluke said:

Do you think that the Chinese Evergrande company is in financial difficulty and may possibly collapse and go into administration, or do you think its just USA propergander ?

The fact that it will collapse, sure is undoubtably US propaganda, no question. Whether it is in financial difficulty is a fact, the Chinese have recognised that. Possibly collapse and go into administration, I suspect not but as I am not privy to the workings of the Chinese governments financial mechanism's or their parties business processes then the truthful answer is I am unclear what will happen.

 If the US financial numbnuts were just a tad less biased and not like children egged on by the US governments anti-China propaganda machine, they would be saying the same if they had any backbone.

But as I said two weeks ago on Evergrande, only time will tell.