Collapse of China

[Poolie]

2 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Just a few Monster energy drinks as my usual.

Here are more companies starting to flounder and join Evergrande, financial collapse is starting to become a reality whether you want to believe it or not.  I do not wish ill will on these folks I just see that the writing is on the wall.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/10/three-companies-join-evergrande-unable-meet-debt-obligations-far-debt-nearly-half-trillion-usd-facing-solvency-issues-china/

We also reported yesterday, that in part because of the Evergrande situation, which highlights China’s financial woes, the Chinese economy is in a crisis.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/10/breaking-hong-kongs-evergrande-huge-china-real-estate-portfolio-trading-halted-debt-crisis-escalates/

Of course you will again just say this is Western wishful thinking and propaganda.

Well, seeing as it's all you've got, we are bound to say that aren't we. You've given every reason from Evergrande to 'people being disappeared in the dead of night' for China's demise but still it isn't happening. I wonder why?

Actually I have a fair idea why, but trying to communicate with you is like trying to breath underwater. Possible but very difficult.

To whatever you come up with (NYT or Washington Post or somesuch) next, keep it. I'm no longer interested in specious argument.

Have a pleasant day.

[Stardust]

7 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

So companies did not leave China and move to Vietnam and a few other locales....hmmm I think you guys are taking the piss if you believe no one has closed shop and moved on, hell even Thailand lost companies to Vietnam and even the Philippines.  More to move out as well.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Most-read-in-2019/China-scrambles-to-stem-manufacturing-exodus-as-50-companies-leave

https://www.lovemoney.com/galleries/98705/big-multinational-companies-moving-out-of-china

a third of supply chain leaders had plans to move at least some of their manufacturing out of China before 2023. Coronavirus-related sales slumps and supply chain disruption, as well as rising production costs, have also hastened the exodus

I wondering, too. Mainmanufacturer left or leaving means more production in China in some peoples logic? Where is the mistake? And everybody who not agree are haluzunating or it is western media or China basher. Hhhm . And the current will be a safe haven for multinational companies, big companies or Chinese companies?! Same for Hong Kong?! Crackdown after crackdowns on companies must be their confidence? And they will not choose better India and other asian or worldwide destinations?! And international companies taken the risk for their supply chains disruptions?! I ask myself if they are not haluzinating or where they get their confidence for a China under Xi. 

[Stardust]

10 minutes ago, Fluke said:

What was I wrong about ?

I guess you not see that China is the master of the world and ever was even when there is no historic evidence about it and thats why they lost in the courts about their claims. If you follow their logic Germany and Japan could claim China and south China sea and thats with a real historic foundation.

[mickkotlarski]

1 hour ago, Fester said:

Agree but not with the reasoning - China has always claimed that the South China Sea is theirs.

14 billion??

Ooops. Sorry missed the decimal point.

Of course it says the sea is theirs but in the eyes of the international community its neighbors have a rightful claim also.

Should their line of supply be threatened then serious consequences would follow. Hence China's take over of Sri Lankan ports, Rohingya fiasco on Myanmars Eastern sea board and all the drama with Taiwan. The allies in turn have sent a sizeable navy to counter.

Cut the supply access and they are in a world of hurt.

[Poolie]

3 minutes ago, mickkotlarski said:

Ooops. Sorry missed the decimal point.

Of course it says the sea is theirs but in the eyes of the international community its neighbors have a rightful claim also.

Should their line of supply be threatened then serious consequences would follow. Hence China's take over of Sri Lankan ports, Rohingya fiasco on Myanmars Eastern sea board and all the drama with Taiwan. The allies in turn have sent a sizeable navy to counter.

Cut the supply access and they are in a world of hurt.

By blocking the freedom of navigation that they claim to be there to maintain?

Surely not.

[mickkotlarski]

1 hour ago, Fluke said:

As have Vietnam, Philippines , Malaysia and Brunei .

(Probably meant to be a decimal  point between the 1 &  4)

Correct on both counts. Just gave Fester a reply with a very similar message.

[Rain]

7 minutes ago, mickkotlarski said:

Ooops. Sorry missed the decimal point.

Of course it says the sea is theirs but in the eyes of the international community its neighbors have a rightful claim also.

Should their line of supply be threatened then serious consequences would follow. Hence China's take over of Sri Lankan ports, Rohingya fiasco on Myanmars Eastern sea board and all the drama with Taiwan. The allies in turn have sent a sizeable navy to counter.

Cut the supply access and they are in a world of hurt.

The Allies...? 

[mickkotlarski]

Just now, Poolie said:

By blocking the freedom of navigation that they claim to be there to maintain?

Surely not.

Not actually a block as opposed to a policing. Although with the size of the naval build up it could be more than that. I'm doubtful there will be any hard military conflict and if there was to be then the Taiwan sovereignty issue would be the most likely catalyst.  

[Stardust]

58 minutes ago, Rain said:

Hence the term: South China Sea 

...and have dominated the region for centuries. 

Please check the history last few centuries. It was definetly not China. In your logic the Indo Pacific must be India? South of China or a region doesn't mean it was under their control and thats why it was dismissed because historically wrong. 

[mickkotlarski]

5 minutes ago, Rain said:

The Allies...? 

 

Its called the QUAD (Quadrilateral Security Dialogue) but bear in mind British and German vessels are heading Eastward also.

 

[Fluke]

8 minutes ago, Poolie said:

By blocking the freedom of navigation that they claim to be there to maintain?

Surely not.

Its not the freedom of navigation that's the issue , its the build up of military bases and China taking disputed land and seas . 

[Fluke]

2 minutes ago, mickkotlarski said:

Its called the QUAD (Quadrilateral Security Dialogue) but bear in mind British and German vessels are heading Eastward also.

Don't forget the Australians as well , also Japan, Vietnam, Philippines and Brunei would join the gang as well  along with Hong Kong and Taiwan 

[gummy]

Just now, Fluke said:

Don't forget the Australians as well , also Japan, Vietnam, Philippines and Brunei would join the gang as well  along with Hong Kong and Taiwan 

So Hong Kong, which is now Chinese, not only have a navy now ( where did that come from ) they will oppose their own country also ? or did I misunderstand ? 

[RWD]

On 10/5/2021 at 12:37 PM, longwood50 said:

Maybe, however you have a country with over 1 billion people making it potentially the most lucrative retail market in the world.  You have a country that unlike the USA, has been acquiring surplus each year and using it to purchase assets while the USA has racked up huge amounts of debt.  You have a country that rewards success, You do not have a large percentage of the population being parasites and living off government redistribution policies to get re-elected.  China may not have all the answers and may encounter some problems but compared to their major economic rival the USA, I would bet on them.  And, I am from the USA

China has the ability to call in any loans it gave it's people to buy property off-shore.  And at zero interest the chinese purchased huge tranches of property all around the world.   If China demands the loans repaid immediately - which I am certain in such a totalitarian state, they can we could well find local property prices fall across the board.   

[Fluke]

1 minute ago, gummy said:

So Hong Kong, which is now Chinese, not only have a navy now ( where did that come from ) they will oppose their own country also ? or did I misunderstand ? 

The Hong Kong people would side with any Country that went to war with China 

[Stardust]

12 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Please check the history last few centuries. It was definetly not China. In your logic the Indo Pacific must be India? South of China or a region doesn't mean it was under their control and thats why it was dismissed because historically wrong. 

Some people doesn't know the history of south east asia and why there are muslims, hindu or christian cultures. Or about any old kingdoms like the Khmer kingdoms (Anghor wat) or Burma. About Indonesia Muslim or Bali hindu culture or even the history of the last few centuries. Non of it was China in south east Asia but such nonsense claims.

[Fester]

1 hour ago, Fluke said:

As have Vietnam, Philippines , Malaysia and Brunei .

(Probably meant to be a decimal  point between the 1 &  4)

No. The other countries claim small parts close to their own territories - not 90% of the whole lot.

[mickkotlarski]

8 minutes ago, Fluke said:

Don't forget the Australians as well , also Japan, Vietnam, Philippines and Brunei would join the gang as well  along with Hong Kong and Taiwan 

Actually Fluke  Australia is one of the 4 members of QUAD. The others being the US, India and Japan is the other member you already quoted.  However if there was another nation to join the coalition it would possibly be Malaysia and not Hong Hong as the nation has been returned to China by agreement.

[mickkotlarski]

2 minutes ago, Fester said:

No. The other countries claim small parts close to their own territories - not 90% of the whole lot.

The way China is going it may be less than 10%.

[longwood50]

4 minutes ago, RWD said:

China has the ability to call in any loans it gave it's people to buy property off-shore.  And at zero interest the chinese purchased huge tranches of property all around the world.   If China demands the loans repaid immediately - which I am certain in such a totalitarian state, they can we could well find local property prices fall across the board.   

They do have that leverage but it is like nuclear war.  If they start to demand repayment they will collapse the worth of their own investments at the same time.  I think it more likely that at some point in time China stops buying U.S. debt knowing it will never be repaid and if it is repaid it will be in dollars that are ravaged by inflation.  When or if that occurs it will signal to everyone that there is loss of faith in the U.S. dollar and there will be a stampede to sell and convert dollars to something tangible like real estate.  

If that does occur it will make the great depression look like the good old days. 

[gummy]

1 minute ago, RWD said:

China has the ability to call in any loans it gave it's people to buy property off-shore.  And at zero interest the chinese purchased huge tranches of property all around the world.   If China demands the loans repaid immediately - which I am certain in such a totalitarian state, they can we could well find local property prices fall across the board.   

Yep, countries were happy to take their money and benefits and the US were more than happy selling them their own massive debts. Now the girls are ripping up their gymslips complaining that China are becoming the preeminent economy in the world. Well what goes round comes round.

The girls are even bitching now about China building their own space station, even after they weren't allowed to join the club 20 years ago. So as far as I can see the Chinese have more than a right to stick up their middle finger to the US/Russian and Europe on that matter. What was that I hear about them stealing technology from the US ? Must be similar to the US letting war criminals off scot free so that those German scientists could be rustled off to the US in order to build the US space capability. My my what a duplicitous world we live in.

[gummy]

11 minutes ago, Fluke said:

The Hong Kong people would side with any Country that went to war with China 

Well that being the case then mainland China must be quaking in their boots at that thought. 

[Fester]

31 minutes ago, mickkotlarski said:

Ooops. Sorry missed the decimal point.

Of course it says the sea is theirs but in the eyes of the international community its neighbors have a rightful claim also.

Should their line of supply be threatened then serious consequences would follow. Hence China's take over of Sri Lankan ports, Rohingya fiasco on Myanmars Eastern sea board and all the drama with Taiwan. The allies in turn have sent a sizeable navy to counter.

Cut the supply access and they are in a world of hurt.

OK. You meant the 1.4 billion Chinese. If China's supply routes were to be blocked then the Chinese would have good reason to be pissed off.

The smaller neighbours only claim small parts of water nearset to them. But the Chinese claim to almost the entire South China Sea (ranging more that 1000 miles from mainland China) would effectively isolate, or partially isolate, these smaller countries, from a maritime perspective. 

  

[palooka]

1 hour ago, Rain said:

Hence the term: South China Sea 

...and have dominated the region for centuries. 

I always thought it to be the South of China Sea, which geographically it is.

[Fluke]

9 minutes ago, mickkotlarski said:

Actually Fluke  Australia is one of the 4 members of QUAD. The others being the US, India and Japan is the other member you already quoted.  However if there was another nation to join the coalition it would possibly be Malaysia and not Hong Hong as the nation has been returned to China by agreement.

Although Hong Kong is a separate jurisdiction and isn't governed by Chinese law and still has a certain amount of independence and the population oppose Chinese rule and they would side with the Allies when there's a war