Collapse of China

[Rookiescot]

6 minutes ago, gummy said:

Exactly what has that got to do with the actual tonnages exported out of China which my post was all about ? I sad facts and non of that disproves that what I referenced regarding actual export tonnages from China is incorrect up to August just past. Stop the blathering and face facts that China is not on the verge of collapse as America and their sycophantic believers are wishing for.

Again the facts. Now go away and disprove that those tonnages are incorrect. If you can't then like many, your comments are worthless diatribe.

https://tradingeconomics.com/china/exports

Its produce stockpiled during the pandemic which is now being moved. It still hasn't reached pre covid levels though has it?

Now what about the power outages. Are you saying they are not happening?

Or are you claiming Chinese factories can make stuff without electricity?

[ThailandRyan]

22 minutes ago, gummy said:

Exactly what has that got to do with the actual tonnages exported out of China which my post was all about ? I sad facts and non of that disproves that what I referenced regarding actual export tonnages from China is incorrect up to August just past. Stop the blathering and face facts that China is not on the verge of collapse as America and their sycophantic believers are wishing for.

Again the facts. Now go away and disprove that those tonnages are incorrect. If you can't then like many, your comments are worthless diatribe.

https://tradingeconomics.com/china/exports

Again your Cherry picking what you want and not looking at the total big picture now.  Power cuts etc, show that China is having internal troubles and this will also incur financial ones as well, but then you just think what I write is bashing China, when in all reality it is truly what's occurring regardless of where it was written.

[gummy]

15 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Its produce stockpiled during the pandemic which is now being moved. It still hasn't reached pre covid levels though has it?

Now what about the power outages. Are you saying they are not happening?

Or are you claiming Chinese factories can make stuff without electricity?

Complete and utter drivel. Sorry I will not discuss further with those who are in denial of facts. Suggest you face the facts that America's dominance is drawing towards an ending and its time for others.

[gummy]

3 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Again your Cherry picking what you want and not looking at the total big picture now.  Power cuts etc, show that China is having internal troubles and this will also incur financial ones as well, but then you just think what I write is bashing China, when in all reality it is truly what's occurring regardless of where it was written.

Sorry I have always had respect for your posts previously but to say I cherry pick about factual information on Chinese exports when those facts were from an internationally renowned trade source then sorry you best hide yourself in the crowd of others that can not accept facts.  As I have said earlier American dominance is drawing towards an ending and its time for others. American's and their supporters may be in denial but then what else would one expect.

[ThailandRyan]

4 minutes ago, gummy said:

Sorry I have always had respect for your posts previously but to say I cherry pick about factual information on Chinese exports when those facts were from an internationally renowned trade source then sorry you best hide yourself in the crowd of others that can not accept facts.  As I have said earlier American dominance is drawing towards an ending and its time for others. American's and their supporters may be in denial but then what else would one expect.

Are you also denying the facts that I have posted, other than to comment they are western propaganda, if so you are only picking what you see and do not enter into a debate about what has been posted.  I am not an American supporter either.  I look at things from a Global perspective and China right now has some serious issues in front of it.  The other countries made their beds long ago.  To also discuss tonnages of products is fine, but when the stock is still stuck onboard ships at sea then they have truly not been delivered as of yet, now have they.  Have they been paid for in full, or has only a retainer and down payment been made.  The microchip issue is another Area which as of now has stagnated the economies for many countries.  Who produces the microchips and such for vehicles, cell phones and computer equipment?  Sorry to be an annoying thron in your side, but all is not right in China as we speak.

 

[gummy]

10 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Are you also denying the facts that I have posted, other than to comment they are western propaganda, if so you are only picking what you see and do not enter into a debate about what has been posted.  I am not an American supporter either.  I look at things from a Global perspective and China right now has some serious issues in front of it.  The other countries made their beds long ago.  To also discuss tonnages of products is fine, but when the stock is still stuck onboard ships at sea then they have truly not been delivered as of yet, now have they.  Have they been paid for in full, or has only a retainer and down payment been made.  The microchip issue is another Area which as of now has stagnated the economies for many countries.  Who produces the microchips and such for vehicles, cell phones and computer equipment?  Sorry to be an annoying thron in your side, but all is not right in China as we speak.

You are not an annoying thorn in my side as I am just disappointed that intelligent people are in denial about Chinese recovery from Covid and that America's aim to discredit them , along with their supporters is all based on opinionated articles.  There is only one reason why America and most other countries helped Chinese growth accelerate and that was due to being able to manufacture items cheaper than elsewhere, That in turn improved their margins, to far greater levels than more expensive producer's. So in the pursuit of even more profit, or simply shareholder greed, they were the main proponents of Chinese growth. Now they have seen what their own greed has resulted in and don't like it. Some would suggest that that is simply Karma.

[ThailandRyan]

2 minutes ago, gummy said:

You are not an annoying thorn in my side as I am just disappointed that intelligent people are in denial about Chinese recovery from Covid and that America's aim to discredit them , along with their supporters is all based on opinionated articles.  There is only one reason why America and most other countries helped Chinese growth accelerate and that was due to being able to manufacture items cheaper than elsewhere, That in turn improved their margins, to far greater levels than more expensive producer's. So in the pursuit of even more profit, or simply shareholder greed, they were the main proponents of Chinese growth. Now they have seen what their own greed has resulted in and don't like it. Some would suggest that that is simply Karma.

I do agree with you on the facts you posted above, those being that China became the Wests, The UK's and the EU's factory ground for the making of many of the products sold elsewhere and used in Daily life.  Yes greed by Company owners and their boards definitely fueled Chinas economic growth while filling the top 1%'s pockets.  All one has to do is look at the tags on ones clothes to see that they have a Made in Thailand, Made in Taiwan, or made elsewhere tag on them.  All one needs to do is also look at the carton a product came in to see that it was made in China.  On a side note China has also become the factory ground for knock-off products as well.

[Rookiescot]

55 minutes ago, gummy said:

Complete and utter drivel. Sorry I will not discuss further with those who are in denial of facts. Suggest you face the facts that America's dominance is drawing towards an ending and its time for others.

It is you who is in denial of the facts.

I have already explained to you that the upsurge in deliveries is because stock which was pilled up during the pandemic is now starting to move.

Now what about the power outages?

[Smithydog]

It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few months.

The problems with the real estate companies and coal vs climate change are, in my opinion, no different to what other countries have and are experiencing. The Chinese authorities will handle it the way the want to and probably the only news we will hear is about the legal system dealing with corrupt persons.

I am confident the Chinese Government would like to maximise the publicity value that hosting an Olympics brings, even the winter variety, and now only about 3-4 months away. After all, every hosting city/country does as it is such a great and rare opportunity. The lack of visitors will hurt to a degree as will the probably needed Covid-19 restrictions. But, there will be still plenty of effort, I am sure, to showcase Chinese Culture highlighting good over bad,

I am equally sure China's faults, perceived or real, will be highlighted as always happens as well. We will just have to wait and see what reports of media restrictions during the games arises, if any.

After all, the focus the Olympics brings is often desired and often not wanted at the same time!

[Stardust]

21 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Nope, directly involving China

His reliable sources is Ccp China where everything is censored and shut with a firewall. Poolie is known from other forums as a brainwashed 50 cent army who bring in a daily basis the propaganda from the politburo Beijing and everything else is western views. This guy is out of every reality and kicked out in many forums in Thailand or known as a 50 cent wumao. It makes no sense any discussion with him because he lost any view on the reality and doesn't understand the difference between ccp propaganda and the reality.

[Stardust]

2 hours ago, gummy said:

You are not an annoying thorn in my side as I am just disappointed that intelligent people are in denial about Chinese recovery from Covid and that America's aim to discredit them , along with their supporters is all based on opinionated articles.  There is only one reason why America and most other countries helped Chinese growth accelerate and that was due to being able to manufacture items cheaper than elsewhere, That in turn improved their margins, to far greater levels than more expensive producer's. So in the pursuit of even more profit, or simply shareholder greed, they were the main proponents of Chinese growth. Now they have seen what their own greed has resulted in and don't like it. Some would suggest that that is simply Karma.

Sorry but as an non American but worked in International companies but you also not see the facts and reality of Ccp China! Since a while they are leaving China to Vietnam, India and other destination. Japan subsidy to evacuate their companies and put out their supply chains from China same south Korea is doing. All key and major companies like Samsung, Toshiba etc etc. Everybody who is working in big international Companies knows this facts and how they pulling out. Same Hong Kong and the high skilled staff is following and unemployment is rising in China because of the exodus. Sorry you should talk to people who are involved in that and ask why they are leaving and what are the facts and reality in China. It is not what you are writing and not the reality of the companies I know and involved in China and pulling out! I like your comments but I wondering why you not can accept the facts of China and also not can see the reality of other international not american big companies like european, japanese, south Korea, south east asean and even the fact that south china companies left to Vietnam. Sometimes it is annoying that some see everything only in the American and Chinese perspective and not the facts and whole situation.

[gummy]

41 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Sorry but as an non American but worked in International companies but you also not see the facts and reality of Ccp China! Since a while they are leaving China to Vietnam, India and other destination. Japan subsidy to evacuate their companies and put out their supply chains from China same south Korea is doing. All key and major companies like Samsung, Toshiba etc etc. Everybody who is working in big international Companies knows this facts and how they pulling out. Same Hong Kong and the high skilled staff is following and unemployment is rising in China because of the exodus. Sorry you should talk to people who are involved in that and ask why they are leaving and what are the facts and reality in China. It is not what you are writing and not the reality of the companies I know and involved in China and pulling out! I like your comments but I wondering why you not can accept the facts of China and also not can see the reality of other international not american big companies like european, japanese, south Korea, south east asean and even the fact that south china companies left to Vietnam. Sometimes it is annoying that some see everything only in the American and Chinese perspective and not the facts and whole situation.

What ever you are on care to share ? because being able to escape reality is somewthing you appear to have acheived

[Rain]

4 hours ago, gummy said:

Sorry I have always had respect for your posts previously but to say I cherry pick about factual information on Chinese exports when those facts were from an internationally renowned trade source then sorry you best hide yourself in the crowd of others that can not accept facts.  As I have said earlier American dominance is drawing towards an ending and its time for others. American's and their supporters may be in denial but then what else would one expect.

Well presented, Gummy.

A truth and reality that many a conditioned folk are not ready to accept.

[Poolie]

3 minutes ago, Rain said:

Well presented, Gummy.

A truth and reality that many a conditioned folk are not ready to accept.

I'm just waiting for the 'ah but......' that inevitably comes with these discussions.

By the way, there's no power shortage. Some parts of the grid were down over the weekend. But briefly. We're nuclear in winter and hydro in summer, and yes we do get the difference back. Coal? Quote Yinn...pffft.

Sorry.

By the way China is more dependent on it's domestic market than before. It went to 51% domestic around seven years ago, and stands at around 65% today. So exports aren't as important as they were.

 

 

[ThailandRyan]

20 minutes ago, Poolie said:

I'm just waiting for the 'ah but......' that inevitably comes with these discussions.

By the way, there's no power shortage. Some parts of the grid were down over the weekend. But briefly. We're nuclear in winter and hydro in summer, and yes we do get the difference back. Coal? Quote Yinn...pffft.

Sorry.

By the way China is more dependent on it's domestic market than before. It went to 51% domestic around seven years ago, and stands at around 65% today. So exports aren't as important as they were.

Try again

https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/international-issues/chinas-economy-is-based-on-fossil-fuels/

China’s economy is based on fossil fuels (hydrocarbons), which generate 86 percent of its primary energy consumption. China’s investments in these sources continue to grow across the board, despite media characterizations of them as being committed to a “green” energy future. China added 11.4 gigawatts of new coal-fired capacity in the first six months of 2020—plants that can continue operating efficiently for 40 to 60 years. China is allowing coal power plants to be built until around 2030 when China will be richer and replacement technologies will have advanced and their costs will be lower.

https://theconversation.com/chinas-economic-recovery-depends-on-the-rest-of-the-world-135319

There are at least two reasons China depends on the global economy for its own recovery: China’s large amount of exports to other countries and the continuity of its Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) – China’s massive infrastructure projects, many of which are located in countries affected by COVID-19.

Ergo, Evergrande

Edited October 12, 2021 by ThailandRyan

[Poolie]

9 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Try again

https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/international-issues/chinas-economy-is-based-on-fossil-fuels/

China’s economy is based on fossil fuels (hydrocarbons), which generate 86 percent of its primary energy consumption. China’s investments in these sources continue to grow across the board, despite media characterizations of them as being committed to a “green” energy future. China added 11.4 gigawatts of new coal-fired capacity in the first six months of 2020—plants that can continue operating efficiently for 40 to 60 years. China is allowing coal power plants to be built until around 2030 when China will be richer and replacement technologies will have advanced and their costs will be lower.

https://theconversation.com/chinas-economic-recovery-depends-on-the-rest-of-the-world-135319

There are at least two reasons China depends on the global economy for its own recovery: China’s large amount of exports to other countries and the continuity of its Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) – China’s massive infrastructure projects, many of which are located in countries affected by COVID-19.

Ergo, Evergrande

More western downplaying.

Most of these 'new' coal plants are designed to heat one housing estate or a new factory. I can't change the way our electricity is generated to suit the narrative, or change the Chinese economy. You take your comfort by reading this stuff and hoping for an 'aha!' moment. Good for you.

Sorry.

[Stardust]

Sorry but I worked since the 90s in a company who is involved and operated in key industries asia, south east asia, China, ,Singapire and Hong Kong. And no one of any key companies operating in China, Asia is having your view. Are you working in any major company who is operating in China and Asia? I guess not because you seam have no information about key companies like Samsung, Toshiba and other big key operators and their strategies. At the moment there are main winners Vietnam and India and it is not China or USA in the current situation. And you are not involved in the current situation that is for sure otherwise you would know about the pull outs. And yes this are facts and this will confirm you everybody who is working in the key industries or major companies in  Asia!

Edited October 12, 2021 by Faz
removed previously removed image

[Stardust]

1 minute ago, Stardust said:

Sorry but I worked since the 90s in a company who is involved and operated in key industries asia, south east asia, China, ,Singapire and Hong Kong. And no one of any key companies operating in China, Asia is having your view. Are you working in any major company who is operating in China and Asia? I guess not because you seam have no information about key companies like Samsung, Toshiba and other big key operators and their strategies. At the moment there are main winners Vietnam and India and it is not China or USA in the current situation. And you are not involved in the current situation that is for sure otherwise you would know about the pull outs. And yes this are facts and this will confirm you everybody who is working in the key industries or major companies in  Asia!

Sorry this was for gummy made a mistake.

[Fester]

1 hour ago, Poolie said:

I'm just waiting for the 'ah but......' that inevitably comes with these discussions.

By the way, there's no power shortage. Some parts of the grid were down over the weekend. But briefly. We're nuclear in winter and hydro in summer, and yes we do get the difference back. Coal? Quote Yinn...pffft.

Sorry.

By the way China is more dependent on it's domestic market than before. It went to 51% domestic around seven years ago, and stands at around 65% today. So exports aren't as important as they were.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/859266/number-of-coal-power-plants-by-country/

[Stardust]

1 hour ago, Fluke said:

The former comment from me was for gummy and quoted by mistake at you.

[AussieBob]

On 10/10/2021 at 3:57 PM, gummy said:

I seriously hope not as historically when countries become economically weakened it only gives rise to conflict. In the last 100 years Germany and Japan are prime examples of major nations taking military action. I would not want to see China go  down that path.

Good point - that is exactly what happened and I too hope that does not occur this time. But should the west just let it go and allow China and their corrupt practices to go unpunished.  Just recently China has been accused of bribing members of the IMF years ago - one of them allegedly bribed is now the boss.  That is just another in a long long line of corrupt practices going back decades.  What did they expect? That the fox would not steal eggs and eat a few chickens?

[gummy]

3 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

Good point - that is exactly what happened and I too hope that does not occur this time. But should the west just let it go and allow China and their corrupt practices to go unpunished.  Just recently China has been accused of bribing members of the IMF years ago - one of them allegedly bribed is now the boss.  That is just another in a long long line of corrupt practices going back decades.  What did they expect? That the fox would not steal eggs and eat a few chickens?

Well I don't think the west are honest by a very long way.

[AussieBob]

On 10/10/2021 at 7:45 PM, Rain said:

Unfortunately, there are those cut-in-stone circles that are oblivious to the true evil that is almost single handedly responsible for the destructive manner and turns that the world has taken. 

The real boggiemen surely aren't recognized.

Yep - they are extremely skilled at planning and setting things up to get away with being caught before, well before they are ever suspected - and they usually have a 'fall guy' lined up just in case eyes start to look in their direction.  As they to say, the hardest part about doing a crime is not the doing, it is the getting away with it. 

[Fluke]

On 10/10/2021 at 12:57 PM, gummy said:

I seriously hope not as historically when countries become economically weakened it only gives rise to conflict. In the last 100 years Germany and Japan are prime examples of major nations taking military action. I would not want to see China go  down that path.

Germany and Japan wanted to expand and to dominate the World and that caused the conflict .

   Seems like China are going down that path already and numerous Countries are concerned about Chinas expansion plans and potential World domination 

[Stardust]

2 hours ago, gummy said:

What ever you are on care to share ? because being able to escape reality is somewthing you appear to have acheived

Just a few

 

As working for a company who is involved in automatication, robots, software with customers from all major international companies worldwide and in China or Asia. Directly involved in the pull out and moving to their new locations I guess I know a bit what is going on and where they move to!