Collapse of China

[Convert54]

1 hour ago, Stardust said:

<deleted content> First of all I explain you how europeans/Germans think

Action talks more!

Another difference is the english speaking say hello maybe I am coming or be around, Europeans have a complete another mentality if you here the germans/French then they are already here and were here before!

But another important point is the Europeans are bilingual and all are also able to understand english. The english speaking countries only watch the english speaking news and thats why they never understand or know the different views in Europe. Europe watch them but the english not understand them. The english think their news are the source for all including Europe. <deleted content>

About Europe to understand it

Europe has many cultures and languages but one common thing is what brought it together is the common history and that is wars and the pillar and main reason for the founding of the EU and nothing else! First you have to understand the European history to understand Europe and their souls! And why their views are different to the english speaking countries and also their armies and for example why even a small country in Europe will say <deleted content> to Xi and not impressed about China like Australians or Americans and here is the reason:

All the worldwars were on European grounds and the cold war after. For example after the 2nd worldwar the west germans grow up on gunpoint with soviet union missiles and the nowaday army was grounded to handle nuclear war threats and they trained it even in the schools til the late eighties there. Whole Europe east and west is on that ground founded (wars). Same the history of France and Germany. The english are scared to hell about war with Xi because the Australians and Americans never had these wars in their homecountries and not grow up with it. Europeans grow up with wars including cold war thats the main differences and explains why a small country in Europe will immidiately fight as we seen with Xi and the opening of the Taiwanese embassy on EU ground. Europe is in wars before China and CCP China has zero experience in it and if they look at this puppet baby pla soldiers they are mocking this empty baby heads. If you ask a battle proofed french legion soldier trained in the jungles of French Guinea one would eat a whole unit without need a gun because their whole body is a killing machine. But now tp the main point these armies not talk and are around and europeans see it is weak all this big mouth of China but know China cannot build any warship, submarine or aircraft alone and empty head baby puppet soldiers physically and mentally not seen as a soldier in France or Germany compare to their soldiers. But also the english way is seen as weak at the moment because they talk a lot mostly and mostly busy with themself but not realise the important points. The main difference is if you shoot on the Germany/ French Army they grow and going to be more strong they need this challenge a point the Japanese understand and why they made the Alliance now with the German forces for the Indo pacific region. But they not talk they just do it thats the huge differences in mentality and views! Best example is Australia and Aukus blah blah but the French and Germans are inside but no Australian Navy and thats why in Europe they have a big doubts about their readiness including the Nato members in and around Europe.

So the simple truth is you are hankering for war !

[Stardust]

Just now, Convert54 said:

So the simple truth is you are hankering for war !

You not understand european mentality or south east asean europeans or mixed and rooted in both. I try it to explain it simple if you want peace you have to be prepared for war thats how we think and grow up including our ancestors and not talk too much because all actions and doings talk much more!

I guess you are American you should ask your grandfather or grand grandfather he understands Europe much better than this nowaday Americans who are only bussy with themself but have no knowledge about the world and facts because they are circeling around themself as we can see on this nonsense political fightings in American forums and these Trump Q anan clowns who live in their bubble reality and never check any facts. These discussions are really shamefull for their grandfathers who served in the world wars. Americans have to come back to the grounds and important points and the values what is important to fight for. Some of the right wings are the same clowns like the CCp clowns and same views. Left and right are on the wrong path there.

And what is also a shame is many of the english speaking in the forum piss in their pants of the baby puppets pla army and ccp China this is really a shame. They throw their values and freedoms in the garbage but if they like to be a slave of a dictorship country feel free to go to North Korea or CCP China or Putin Russia but not expect it from European countries they will fight and it will be not their first war.

If China cries for war they will get it. They wanna play wolf especially their baby face clown but when the wolfs are coming they will piss in their pants because they gonna eat them including their skin and bones. They are attracting the wolfs and screaming for war but they will cry when the masters of wars will come for them.

[Convert54]

3 hours ago, Stardust said:

First of all you not understand that the press or media is mostly not the same like the english speaking ones. The European view is quite different. And I can assure you the German Army knows exactly what they are doing and they every screw of Chinese warships and submarines. But Germans, French , Europeans don't like the style of the style of the UK or Aistralia always open their mouth and mostly only blah blah blah. Europeans were tired of the big mouth of the UK and happy that the Brexit is done. Germany and France have a different view and mentality and not talk to much. Germany will not talk and come first with theor warships and submarines and maybe talk later. And they are very well positioned in south east Asia I guess you have no glue how many French and Germans are in south east Asia and how many German Companies. Europe is really tired of the blah blah and the ones in south east Asia.

Having told me all about my lack of understanding then perhaps you would be willing to identify my origins?

I am intrigued by the assertions that apparently most of China is somehow based on everything and anything German. And yet everything and anything in China is also apparently inferior. Perhaps the South East Asian countries need consider that in dealing with German and French influence ?

Companies from many places are establishing themselves in Asia and the ASEAN collective because the global market expansion is there while the European markets are shrinking or stagnant.

[Stardust]

19 minutes ago, Stardust said:

You not understand european mentality or south east asean europeans or mixed and rooted in both. I try it to explain it simple if you want peace you have to be prepared for war thats how we think and grow up including our ancestors and not talk too much because all actions and doings talk much more!

I guess you are American you should ask your grandfather or grand grandfather he understands Europe much better than this nowaday Americans who are only bussy with themself but have no knowledge about the world and facts because they are circeling around themself as we can see on this nonsense political fightings in American forums and these Trump Q anan clowns who live in their bubble reality and never check any facts. These discussions are really shamefull for their grandfathers who served in the world wars. Americans have to come back to the grounds and important points and the values what is important to fight for. Some of the right wings are the same clowns like the CCp clowns and same views. Left and right are on the wrong path there.

And what is also a shame is many of the english speaking in the forum piss in their pants of the baby puppets pla army and ccp China this is really a shame. They throw their values and freedoms in the garbage but if they like to be a slave of a dictorship country feel free to go to North Korea or CCP China or Putin Russia but not expect it from European countries they will fight and it will be not their first war.

If China cries for war they will get it. They wanna play wolf especially their baby face clown but when the wolfs are coming they will piss in their pants because they gonna eat them including their skin and bones. They are attracting the wolfs and screaming for war but they will cry when the masters of wars will come for them.

I forgot to include Japan and Taiwan because their views and thinking is the same like most of the european countries

[Stardust]

38 minutes ago, Convert54 said:

Having told me all about my lack of understanding then perhaps you would be willing to identify my origins?

I am intrigued by the assertions that apparently most of China is somehow based on everything and anything German. And yet everything and anything in China is also apparently inferior. Perhaps the South East Asian countries need consider that in dealing with German and French influence ?

Companies from many places are establishing themselves in Asia and the ASEAN collective because the global market expansion is there while the European markets are shrinking or stagnant.

You really have no knowledge about German companies in south east asia and China all what you wrote is based on your own opinion not on facts. And also check the facts why I wrote they know China is not able to build their own ships or aircraft and not even have their own gps or space navigation. Check the facts why the aircraft projects in China failed to build their own and check the facts what is inside a chinese warship or submarine. I made links for that in former comments. I assure you the germans know every screw of any ship or submarine of the chinese and I assure you they know exactly what the Chines are capable. Maybe you should also check who is the supplier and who the importer maybe check the exports of Germany first. You know the difference between knowing and believing, guessing or own opinion?! Thats the problem of many here is just their opinion but not on knowing and facts.

[PBS]

17 minutes ago, Stardust said:

You really have no knowledge about German companies in south east asia and China all what you wrote is based on your own opinion not on facts. And also check the facts why I wrote they know China is not able to build their own ships or aircraft and not even have their own gps or space navigation. Check the facts why the aircraft projects in China failed to build their own and check the facts what is inside a chinese warship or submarine. I made links for that in former comments. I assure you the germans know every screw of any ship or submarine of the chinese and I assure you they know exactly what the Chines are capable. Maybe you should also check who is the supplier and who the importer maybe check the exports of Germany first. You know the difference between knowing and believing, guessing or own opinion?! Thats the problem of many here is just their opinion but not on knowing and facts.

For a starter check your claim PRC has not built its own GPS. To be blunt your insinuated claims of deep knowledge of PRC military systems do not stack up. Nor for that matter your knowledge of NATO / US allied doctrine for managing strategic PRC threats, you are only articulating  emotive opinion without empirical data, which at the end of the day is worthless.

Edited December 23, 2021 by PBS

[Stardust]

1 hour ago, PBS said:

For a starter check your claim PRC has not built its own GPS. To be blunt your insinuated claims of deep knowledge of PRC military systems do not stack up. Nor for that matter your knowledge of NATO / US allied doctrine for managing strategic PRC threats, you are only articulating  emotive opinion without empirical data, which at the end of the day is worthless.

This shows me you are the one who have no tech knowledgse and about the prc. The prc started last year to send a satelite for their own gps and til today have problems and is not accurate and compare able. You are the same poster who not know the differences between knowing and believing and your own opinion and about space navigation the same. You just wrote your opinion which have no sources only your own opinion. Beidou depends on cooperation and tech from the european Gallileo program and cooperation between european companies. I agree they are on to develop their own gps and technics but always have to copy or stealing tech or have to make cooperations. If you not understand you have to know the tech inside their new warships and where it comes from!

 

[Poolie]

10 minutes ago, Stardust said:

This shows me you are the one who have no tech knowledgse and about the prc. The prc started last year to send a satelite for their own gps and til today have problems and is not accurate and compare able. You are the same poster who not know the differences between knowing and believing and your own opinion and about space navigation the same. You just wrote your opinion which have no sources only your own opinion. Beidou depends on cooperation and tech from the european Gallileo program and cooperation between european companies. I agree they are on to develop their own gps and technics but always have to copy or stealing tech or have to make cooperations. If you not understand you have to know the tech inside their new warships and where it comes from!

I have Chinese GPS and its accurate to one metre. AutoNavi/AMap. I've used it in Spain too. Your claims are beyond ludicrous. 

[Stardust]

10 minutes ago, Stardust said:

This shows me you are the one who have no tech knowledgse and about the prc. The prc started last year to send a satelite for their own gps and til today have problems and is not accurate and compare able. You are the same poster who not know the differences between knowing and believing and your own opinion and about space navigation the same. You just wrote your opinion which have no sources only your own opinion. Beidou depends on cooperation and tech from the european Gallileo program and cooperation between european companies. I agree they are on to develop their own gps and technics but always have to copy or stealing tech or have to make cooperations. If you not understand you have to know the tech inside their new warships and where it comes from!

Maybe this also helps to understand it a bit

https://www.serviceobjects.com/blog/why-gps-coordinates-look-wrong-on-maps-of-china/

And 

https://www.euspa.europa.eu/about/international-co-operation

And

https://www.dw.com/en/german-engine-technology-found-in-chinese-warships-report/a-59740301

And many more in german writings about prc tech capapilities and French/German Activities for Nato or Indo Pacific what I am not allowed to set us as link because only english links are allowed in this forum.

 

[Stardust]

2 minutes ago, Poolie said:

I have Chinese GPS and its accurate to one metre. AutoNavi/AMap. I've used it in Spain too. Your claims are beyond ludicrous. 

It is developped by a belgium company Sepentrio from Leuven in Belgium and in cooperatiin with Brussel Eu programs including Gallileo for China!

[Stardust]

17 minutes ago, Poolie said:

I have Chinese GPS and its accurate to one metre. AutoNavi/AMap. I've used it in Spain too. Your claims are beyond ludicrous. 

Some really not understand that a CHines company name doesn't mean it is developped by China. Also you need some knowledge about the chip tech, semi conductors etc etc and what is inside even in a chinese satelite and who developped this tech. Also the system you mention is developped by a european company for this chinese company. I guess you think inside the tech of  a huawei phone is from China.

[PBS]

36 minutes ago, Stardust said:

This shows me you are the one who have no tech knowledgse and about the prc. The prc started last year to send a satelite for their own gps and til today have problems and is not accurate and compare able. You are the same poster who not know the differences between knowing and believing and your own opinion and about space navigation the same. You just wrote your opinion which have no sources only your own opinion. Beidou depends on cooperation and tech from the european Gallileo program and cooperation between european companies. I agree they are on to develop their own gps and technics but always have to copy or stealing tech or have to make cooperations. If you not understand you have to know the tech inside their new warships and where it comes from!

None of which refutes PRC has developed its own GPS infrastructure. All countries utilise espionage and so on for development / R&D, it’s rubbish to insinuate PRC is the sole practitioner.

Fair enough to dislike PRC ideology, doubt anyone on this forum is sympathetic, but boasting of war fighting capabilities, as you do, is ugly nationalism and often in history proven to be a fools mission.

[Stardust]

22 minutes ago, PBS said:

None of which refutes PRC has developed its own GPS infrastructure. All countries utilise espionage and so on for development / R&D, it’s rubbish to insinuate PRC is the sole practitioner.

Fair enough to dislike PRC ideology, doubt anyone on this forum is sympathetic, but boasting of war fighting capabilities, as you do, is ugly nationalism and often in history proven to be a fools mission.

I am guessing you are an Australian and for sure europeans or Asean europeans have a completly other view on things but not based only on natinalism and if you understand as europe has many countries it is not true. For example in my family they have 5 native languages to explain to you the different cultures of Australia and europeans or asean europeans. But as many Europeans work in an european company in Asia they also have another look inside the realities in Asia and how thinks are in reality including productions, tech etc. and also about the reality related to China (their intentions and warfare etc) and for sure mostly share the views of Taiwan, Japan more than of some Australians. But I am guessing some of their naivity is coming from a different history than europe where all families or ancestors grow up in wars or coldwar and the same is with Japan, Japan and why we not share your views because of different experiences and backrounds. So expect they will not follow in any views on this issues with you and please dont explain Germans, French, Europeans, Japanese or Taiwanes about war all of them mostly lost familymembers in the wars. We learned as a child prepare for war if you want to live in peace so we will never share your naivity about China or Russia.

[PBS]

7 minutes ago, Stardust said:

I am guessing you are an Australian and for sure europeans or Asean europeans have a completly other view on things but not based only on natinalism and if you understand as europe has many countries it is not true. For example in my family they have 5 native languages to explain to you the different cultures of Australia and europeans or asean europeans. But as many Europeans work in an european company in Asia they also have another look inside the realities in Asia and how thinks are in reality including productions, tech etc. and also about the reality related to China (their intentions and warfare etc) and for sure mostly share the views of Taiwan, Japan more than of some Australians. But I am guessing some of their naivity is coming from a different history than europe where all families or ancestors grow up in wars or coldwar and the same is with Japan, Japan and why we not share your views because of different experiences and backrounds. So expect they will not follow in any views on this issues with you and please dont explain Germans, French, Europeans, Japanese or Taiwanes about war all of them mostly lost familymembers in the wars. We learned as a child prepare for war if you want to live in peace so we will never share your naivity about China or Russia.

Again you make incorrect assumptions. I am a Londoner, born raised and so on, with NZ and Australian citizenships from living in those countries. Read many studies on conflict, including from the likes of Brookings and Rand, Wizards of Armageddon etc Both my uncles were infantry in British 8th army fighting in N. Africa and Italy. My mother was injured by German bombing of London, my father was German, from your profile I am thankful I never met him. I lived approx four years in Asia and well travelled throughout Europe and US Worked with MNCs in the IT industry for 30 years. I am sure many members have similar diverse backgrounds and experiences, so well past due you cease talking down to members of the forum.

Again you make false allegations, I have never expressed 'naivety' concerning strategic threats emanating from Russia or PRC, but at this stage do not view progression to military engagement from either countries with Western forces, though possible for Russia to commence a tactical land grab in Ukraine for domestic political reasons. NATO has already clearly stated such action will not lead to combat engagement by NATO forces.

Though probably a waste of time, but again I ask, stop making uninformed comment about members who disagree with your opinions - as a reminder opinions are not fact! On the other side on the coin it is proven from your commentary you have an overwhelming requirement to undertake education with managing  hubris - the sooner the better.

Do I view the total collapse of PRC at this point in time as a positive, No, I've stated why I am of the opinion within this topic.

[Convert54]

1 hour ago, Stardust said:

It is developped by a belgium company Sepentrio from Leuven in Belgium and in cooperatiin with Brussel Eu programs including Gallileo for China!

I think you have that  backwards. In 2004 China  signed up to the EU Galileo system despite already developing the basis of the BeiDou themselves. Typically the ongoing involvement in Galileo was as a partner/ supplier. China also went on to develop the BeiDou  to the competitive and marketed level it has now.

An old but geopolitical overview of events is contained in :https://apjjf.org/-Jose-Carlos-Matias/2473/article.html

 

[Rookiescot]

On 12/22/2021 at 9:40 AM, AussieBob said:

Agree with that last part. When they were talking about allowing China to participate in world trade in the 80s, one of the 'benefits' they claimed is that it would stop China becoming like USSR as it would show the benefits of a capitalist economy.  But of course the real reason was that it meant global companies would be able to get things made for less than 20% of what it costs to make them in the west. 

The CCP took what was on offer and then corrupted it to enable themselves to stay in power (even started fake elections like the ones just held in Hong Kong) - that is what all socialist/communist Governments always do - they enforce their own control and power, by taking it away from the people.  Now they are 'running out of other people's money' and it was inevitable - the only question is will the fall end up with them being like USSR or Germany.  But the CCP is going to fight (and will kill) to maintain its control - no socialist/communist Govt has ever taken defeat and walked away - they always have to be removed by force/will.  

Extreme left wing (communist) and extreme right wing (fascist) governments both behave the same way regarding free elections and killing off opposition or sections of their own populations.

It is not unique to the left wing.

[Poolie]

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-evergrande-opens-higher-after-risk-committee-says-will-work-with-creditors-2021-12-23/

See? Going nowhere.

[Rain]

1 hour ago, Poolie said:

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-evergrande-opens-higher-after-risk-committee-says-will-work-with-creditors-2021-12-23/

See? Going nowhere.

Yet, they'll still continue on with their imaginary theories to justify their agendas. 

[Poolie]

3 minutes ago, Rain said:

Yet, they'll still continue on with their imaginary theories to justify their agendas. 

I suppose it fills their day.

[Stardust]

5 hours ago, PBS said:

Again you make incorrect assumptions. I am a Londoner, born raised and so on, with NZ and Australian citizenships from living in those countries. Read many studies on conflict, including from the likes of Brookings and Rand, Wizards of Armageddon etc Both my uncles were infantry in British 8th army fighting in N. Africa and Italy. My mother was injured by German bombing of London, my father was German, from your profile I am thankful I never met him. I lived approx four years in Asia and well travelled throughout Europe and US Worked with MNCs in the IT industry for 30 years. I am sure many members have similar diverse backgrounds and experiences, so well past due you cease talking down to members of the forum.

Again you make false allegations, I have never expressed 'naivety' concerning strategic threats emanating from Russia or PRC, but at this stage do not view progression to military engagement from either countries with Western forces, though possible for Russia to commence a tactical land grab in Ukraine for domestic political reasons. NATO has already clearly stated such action will not lead to combat engagement by NATO forces.

Though probably a waste of time, but again I ask, stop making uninformed comment about members who disagree with your opinions - as a reminder opinions are not fact! On the other side on the coin it is proven from your commentary you have an overwhelming requirement to undertake education with managing  hubris - the sooner the better.

Do I view the total collapse of PRC at this point in time as a positive, No, I've stated why I am of the opinion within this topic.

First of all we lost a lot of family members in the restiance of Hitler with Staufenberg, my Grandfather was even in a American movie ( with Tom Cruise) about that. Second my family is mixed, you cannot explaine my family anything about dictatorships. We have lost a lot of family members in wars including the asean side. Let us agree I will never follow your opinioni, but I can follow other Australians like for example Aussie Bob. But you definetly not understand whats about wars and concentratiin camps and about the ccp or former soviet union or Mao or Xi!!!

[Stardust]

5 hours ago, PBS said:

Again you make incorrect assumptions. I am a Londoner, born raised and so on, with NZ and Australian citizenships from living in those countries. Read many studies on conflict, including from the likes of Brookings and Rand, Wizards of Armageddon etc Both my uncles were infantry in British 8th army fighting in N. Africa and Italy. My mother was injured by German bombing of London, my father was German, from your profile I am thankful I never met him. I lived approx four years in Asia and well travelled throughout Europe and US Worked with MNCs in the IT industry for 30 years. I am sure many members have similar diverse backgrounds and experiences, so well past due you cease talking down to members of the forum.

Again you make false allegations, I have never expressed 'naivety' concerning strategic threats emanating from Russia or PRC, but at this stage do not view progression to military engagement from either countries with Western forces, though possible for Russia to commence a tactical land grab in Ukraine for domestic political reasons. NATO has already clearly stated such action will not lead to combat engagement by NATO forces.

Though probably a waste of time, but again I ask, stop making uninformed comment about members who disagree with your opinions - as a reminder opinions are not fact! On the other side on the coin it is proven from your commentary you have an overwhelming requirement to undertake education with managing  hubris - the sooner the better.

Do I view the total collapse of PRC at this point in time as a positive, No, I've stated why I am of the opinion within this topic.

Watch the movie Valkyrie ( I think is the english name) then you know parts of my family backround and how they died! And as I mentioned I also have a asean part and this side also know what the intention and history of ccp China is! You are coming with your injured mother but you not wanna recordnice how many people get killed from other families including my own and from my wife side! Never we will agree with you!

[PBS]

6 hours ago, Stardust said:

Watch the movie Valkyrie ( I think is the english name) then you know parts of my family backround and how they died! And as I mentioned I also have a asean part and this side also know what the intention and history of ccp China is! You are coming with your injured mother but you not wanna recordnice how many people get killed from other families including my own and from my wife side! Never we will agree with you!

FFS you just do not comprehend. No accounting for ignorance...

[PBS]

6 hours ago, Stardust said:

First of all we lost a lot of family members in the restiance of Hitler with Staufenberg, my Grandfather was even in a American movie ( with Tom Cruise) about that. Second my family is mixed, you cannot explaine my family anything about dictatorships. We have lost a lot of family members in wars including the asean side. Let us agree I will never follow your opinioni, but I can follow other Australians like for example Aussie Bob. But you definetly not understand whats about wars and concentratiin camps and about the ccp or former soviet union or Mao or Xi!!!

Again arrogant assumption and misinformed nonsense from you. BTW never commented on your family, why do you keep posting lies? Had enough of your misrepresentations won't bother to reply any further.

Edited December 23, 2021 by PBS

[AussieBob]

11 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Extreme left wing (communist) and extreme right wing (fascist) governments both behave the same way regarding free elections and killing off opposition or sections of their own populations.

It is not unique to the left wing.

Fascism is not what many people think it is or was.  History was written by the victors (as always) after WW2.  Do you really think that the National Socialist German Workers' Party (NAZIs) were extreme right wing.  Read up on Giovanni Gentile - more left than right in my opinion   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Gentile

 

[Stardust]

51 minutes ago, PBS said:

Again arrogant assumption and misinformed nonsense from you. BTW never commented on your family, why do you keep posting lies? Had enough of your misrepresentations won't bother to reply any further.

Yes the best idea you ever had not quote me because I not share your view and you are to arrogant to accept that fact!