Collapse of China

[PBS]

2 hours ago, Stardust said:

By the way do you understand when I said continental europe?! It means not the uk! And to claim the Nato is mainly the uk and usa is shows arrogance on a high level! Maybe you should learn first how many partners the Nato has and many countries in the eu, scandinavia and the baltic has. With people not know some facts or realities of the world makes really no sense and is a waste of time!

<deleted content> you are not understanding posts. You've a massive ego. Stop posting belittling commentary,  try learning from your mistakes concerning interpretation, which so far you have totally failed to do.

Edited December 12, 2021 by BigHewer
Provocative content removed

[AussieBob]

7 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

China has a small number of elites making vast profits while lording it over a suppressed population who work for peanuts.

Its a capitalists wet dream.

Cannot agree with you there rockiescot - apples and organges.  Sure - both can and do have corruption, and both can and do have a small number of people gaining most advantage.  But Capitalism is based on individual rights and freedoms, and the allowance of market driven mechanisms (regulated, but not totally controlled) to direct the best use of resources and methods of production.  Socialism is based on strict centralised Government planning and control over society and resources and production, and that control is maintained by the removal of individual rights, State ownership of resources, and tight regulations over every facet of production. 

[PBS]

21 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Better you read first the german news before making any false statements. They had record expenses for their army and over the 2 % they were 3,2 % in february and now the double of what the Nato demand

https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/ruestungsausgaben-deutschland-nato-101.html

I really wondering where your source of informatiin is from because alle claimes from you I read are wrong and not facts or on the ground of the reality! Is your source the politburo Peking?!

Is German English language media reporting for the 2021 defence budget incorrect or your comprehension of the news article you translated?

Germany reports record €53 billion in NATO defense spending

The figure marks more than a 3% increase from the previous year. However, it still does not meet the target set by NATO of spending 2% of GDP on defense.

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-reports-record-53-billion-in-nato-defense-spending/a-56491017

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by PBS

[PBS]

38 minutes ago, Stardust said:

when I read the comments of the left wings from Australia it is the mostly the same from the ccp mouthpiece so I guess it is their source for information.

Evidence?

[Stardust]

3 minutes ago, PBS said:

Is German English language media reporting for the 2021 defence budget incorrect or your comprehension of the news article you translated?

Germany reports record €53 billion in NATO defense spending

The figure marks more than a 3% increase from the previous year. However, it still does not meet the target set by NATO of spending 2% of GDP on defense.

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-reports-record-53-billion-in-nato-defense-spending/a-56491017

So you want to tell me the german government doesn't know their figures and the tagesschau a public channel and from the government is making wrong numbers and you are claiming here you know the numvers better than German government. The reports are in the government pages it says beginning of the year 3,2% and now at 4% of the gdp! Your arrogance is really incredible and please not waste my time anymore with your absurd claims. 

[Fester]

18 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Better you read first the german news before making any false statements. They had record expenses for their army and over the 2 % they were 3,2 % in february and now the double of what the Nato demand

https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/ruestungsausgaben-deutschland-nato-101.html

I really wondering where your source of informatiin is from because alle claimes from you I read are wrong and not facts or on the ground of the reality! Is your source the politburo Peking?!

Why should I read the "German news" about NATO stuff when I can read NATO news from....well NATO?

See graph 3: https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/2021/6/pdf/210611-pr-2021-094-en.pdf

Here's another one:

https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/military-expenditure-percent-of-gdp-wb-data.html

These are the type of sources I far prefer. Your news is fake.

 

 

[Stardust]

1 minute ago, Fester said:

Why should I read the "German news" about NATO stuff when I can read NATO news from....well NATO?

See graph 3: https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/2021/6/pdf/210611-pr-2021-094-en.pdf

Here's another one:

https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/military-expenditure-percent-of-gdp-wb-data.html

These are the type of sources I far prefer. Your news is fake.

From the german government and the defense ministry of Germany

https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/ruestungsausgaben-deutschland-nato-101.html

So you want to tell me the numbers of the defense ministry of Germany are wrong? 

[Fester]

7 minutes ago, Stardust said:

So you want to tell me the german government doesn't know their figures and the tagesschau a public channel and from the government is making wrong numbers and you are claiming here you know the numvers better than German government. The reports are in the government pages it says beginning of the year 3,2% and now at 4% of the gdp! Your arrogance is really incredible and please not waste my time anymore with your absurd claims. 

I told you already. 

[Fester]

Just now, Stardust said:

From the german government and the defense ministry of Germany

https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/ruestungsausgaben-deutschland-nato-101.html

So you want to tell me the numbers of the defense ministry of Germany are wrong? 

Yes. The numbers concern increases but these don't raise total military spending to the 2% of GDP NATO agreement. Maybe that's why Von der Leyen had German troops training with broomsticks. A witch maybe? 

[Stardust]

5 minutes ago, Fester said:

Why should I read the "German news" about NATO stuff when I can read NATO news from....well NATO?

See graph 3: https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/2021/6/pdf/210611-pr-2021-094-en.pdf

Here's another one:

https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/military-expenditure-percent-of-gdp-wb-data.html

These are the type of sources I far prefer. Your news is fake.

Here from beginning of the year in english from dw government sponsored channel of Germany. 

It was already there 3,2 % of the gdp!

[Fester]

1 minute ago, Stardust said:

Here from beginning of the year in english from dw government sponsored channel of Germany. 

It was already there 3,2 % of the gdp!

Same density as a pan of mince. Enjoy your TV.

[Stardust]

7 minutes ago, Fester said:

I told you already. 

To tell me the german government and defense ministry gives wrong numbers makes any discussion a waste of time

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-reports-record-53-billion-in-nato-defense-spending/a-56491017

 

[Fester]

13 minutes ago, Stardust said:

To tell me the german government and defense ministry gives wrong numbers makes any discussion a waste of time

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-reports-record-53-billion-in-nato-defense-spending/a-56491017

If you read carefully (past the first line of your own linked story) then light might finally dawn on cloudy head:

The figure marks more than a 3% increase from the previous year. However, it still does not meet the target set by NATO of spending 2% of GDP on defense.

And you talk about waste of time? 

[PBS]

42 minutes ago, Stardust said:

So you want to tell me the german government doesn't know their figures and the tagesschau a public channel and from the government is making wrong numbers and you are claiming here you know the numvers better than German government. The reports are in the government pages it says beginning of the year 3,2% and now at 4% of the gdp! Your arrogance is really incredible and please not waste my time anymore with your absurd claims. 

As pointed out above you are misunderstanding the figures presented.

[AussieBob]

1 hour ago, Stardust said:

I don't know a lot about Australias politics because I am not from Australia but when I read the comments from the left wings of Australians they are really absurd and away from realities. Also their knowledge about Europe/ eastearn Europe and Russia is zero or coming up with inormation what has nothing to do with the reality or history. There is also a big differences in the left orientadet in Europe and in Australia, because I never heard from lefties in Europe such absurd wierd statements so I guess they have also quite another ideology and info source. As often continental Europe often recordnice the UK is an small Island and some still thinks it is an empire and not realized the outside world and the realities of 2021. Many in Europe were happy not to hear any more the me me me and only take but not want do anything for the comunity and only want the cherries. Also a surprise for me is when I read the comments of the left wings from Australia it is the mostly the same from the ccp mouthpiece so I guess it is their source for information.

Well spotted @Stardust.  Australia is now a Nanny State - it has become more like China and less like USA, over the last 4 decades. That is the main reason I decided to retire overseas over 12 years ago, and why I do want to return and live in Thailand with my Thai wife once I can get the Australian Age Pension. Australia started to become this way IMO, because of the introduction of Medicare (Socialised Medicine) in the 1980s - free medical services and medications for all Australians (paid for through additional taxes on the middle/upper classes). The problem with socialised medicine is the same with all socialism, the Govt wants to control everything - now every single thing done in the medical system in Australia is decided by the Bureaucrats in Canberra (Public Service HQ). What I can freely get in Thailand and USA, is unavailable in Australia without a Drs prescription. And Drs are controlled such that they must report just about everything to 'HQ' and they are told exactly what they can and cannot do with any patient. My Dr told me that if she did not complete a recent questionnaire about all her patients that they recently sent out, she would be fined $5000 - and a second offence will be suspension. The Govt pays for the medical services, so they control everything - everything. 

But the Govt (Public Service) did not stop with Medicare in 1980s - they now interfere in just about everything people do - and they want to control how society behaves and thinks about everything. I was going 4km over the speed limit some weeks ago and I got a $380 fine !!  Someone broke into the neighbour's house and trashed it and stole some things, and he was let off with a warning and probation because he is under 18. Some bloke yelled at a girl on a bus who was talking loudly on her phone - he said 'sexist' inappropriate things to her when she said 'f*** off' - he was sentenced to 3 months probation for 'sexual harassment' (he pleaded guilty to drop the 'sexual assault' charges). Whistling at a good looking girl is now an offence - if she takes offence. It has all gone too far - a journalist was jailed for a few years ago for saying that an Aboriginal 'activist' was not Aboriginal - he is white - but he was 'accepted' by the local Elders and therefore he is an Aboriginal. I could go on and on about how freedoms have been taken away, and how massively over-reactive the Govt (Public Service) is towards anything they dont like and want to control/stop people doing.  I cannot wait to leave this Nanny State dominated by Idiot Politicians, Feminists, Left-wing Activists and the far-left Public Service. 

I am considered very right-wing in Australia. Some years ago I did an online 'political assessment' survey being conducted by an American University.  After answering all the questions I was rated as a 'moderate'.  The reasons were I was not right win in USA was that I do not support the death penalty, nor do I support gun ownership by anyone for any reason, plus I do agree with limited Government regulations and control over business activities.  It is all relative. 

[Poolie]

Is this about 'The Collapse Of China?'

[LoongFred]

5 minutes ago, Poolie said:

Is this about 'The Collapse Of China?'

It does, it that China tries to push there socialist ways on others. We need to see this as a warning if people don't resist

In the US resistance is growing with every bad move from Biden.

China is suffering from a top heavy approach, that could happen elsewhere.

[AussieBob]

19 minutes ago, Poolie said:

Is this about 'The Collapse Of China?'

Do you ever post anything more than just one-line snarky comments?  Asking for a friend 

[BigHewer]

Hi Folks,

Just a reminder that the topic of this thread is “Collapse of China”. Some tangential discussion is expected, but let’s please keep the main agenda in mind.

Secondly, remember to play nice. Disagreement is part of the debate, but let’s do so in a civil manner please. 

Regards,

Moderator

[Poolie]

47 minutes ago, LoongFred said:

It does, it that China tries to push there socialist ways on others. We need to see this as a warning if people don't resist

In the US resistance is growing with every bad move from Biden.

China is suffering from a top heavy approach, that could happen elsewhere.

ts highly unlikely being that China has one (1) offshore base in Djibouti. No-one can demonstrate any way that China is 'pushing their Socialist ways' as they simply arent.

[Stardust]

2 hours ago, AussieBob said:

Well spotted @Stardust.  Australia is now a Nanny State - it has become more like China and less like USA, over the last 4 decades. That is the main reason I decided to retire overseas over 12 years ago, and why I do want to return and live in Thailand with my Thai wife once I can get the Australian Age Pension. Australia started to become this way IMO, because of the introduction of Medicare (Socialised Medicine) in the 1980s - free medical services and medications for all Australians (paid for through additional taxes on the middle/upper classes). The problem with socialised medicine is the same with all socialism, the Govt wants to control everything - now every single thing done in the medical system in Australia is decided by the Bureaucrats in Canberra (Public Service HQ). What I can freely get in Thailand and USA, is unavailable in Australia without a Drs prescription. And Drs are controlled such that they must report just about everything to 'HQ' and they are told exactly what they can and cannot do with any patient. My Dr told me that if she did not complete a recent questionnaire about all her patients that they recently sent out, she would be fined $5000 - and a second offence will be suspension. The Govt pays for the medical services, so they control everything - everything. 

But the Govt (Public Service) did not stop with Medicare in 1980s - they now interfere in just about everything people do - and they want to control how society behaves and thinks about everything. I was going 4km over the speed limit some weeks ago and I got a $380 fine !!  Someone broke into the neighbour's house and trashed it and stole some things, and he was let off with a warning and probation because he is under 18. Some bloke yelled at a girl on a bus who was talking loudly on her phone - he said 'sexist' inappropriate things to her when she said 'f*** off' - he was sentenced to 3 months probation for 'sexual harassment' (he pleaded guilty to drop the 'sexual assault' charges). Whistling at a good looking girl is now an offence - if she takes offence. It has all gone too far - a journalist was jailed for a few years ago for saying that an Aboriginal 'activist' was not Aboriginal - he is white - but he was 'accepted' by the local Elders and therefore he is an Aboriginal. I could go on and on about how freedoms have been taken away, and how massively over-reactive the Govt (Public Service) is towards anything they dont like and want to control/stop people doing.  I cannot wait to leave this Nanny State dominated by Idiot Politicians, Feminists, Left-wing Activists and the far-left Public Service. 

I am considered very right-wing in Australia. Some years ago I did an online 'political assessment' survey being conducted by an American University.  After answering all the questions I was rated as a 'moderate'.  The reasons were I was not right win in USA was that I do not support the death penalty, nor do I support gun ownership by anyone for any reason, plus I do agree with limited Government regulations and control over business activities.  It is all relative. 

In europe they call it the middle your stands because far right in europe they want exactly what you described absolute everything controlled by the government like a dictatorship. The pro democracy people want the opposite more freedom, human rights and no authoritian state. The far right and far left like a dictatorship government. 

[Stardust]

Europe and USA seemed to prepared for the China collapse

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/evergrande-stock-china-default-bonds-fitch-chinese-market-intervention/

 

 

[PBS]

1 hour ago, Poolie said:

ts highly unlikely being that China has one (1) offshore base in Djibouti. No-one can demonstrate any way that China is 'pushing their Socialist ways' as they simply arent.

It is a fact PRC is utilising influencing methods around the world, including corrupting a few politicians here in Australia (it's amazing the relatively small amount of money needed). On the other side of the coin with the aggressive nature of XI's policies, Oz has recognised the potential political and economic threats and acting accordingly - same applies to other Western countries.

[Stardust]

3 hours ago, PBS said:

As pointed out above you are misunderstanding the figures presented.

Check the date of it and decided to top up again and now it is much over it and you know why? It is by the gdp and the new gdp numbers are lower because of the covid crises. The english version is from the numbers before covid but they said it was not enough and rised the spending again. 

[Poolie]

25 minutes ago, PBS said:

It is a fact PRC is utilising influencing methods around the world, including corrupting a few politicians here in Australia (it's amazing the relatively small amount of money needed). On the other side of the coin with the aggressive nature of XI's policies, Oz has recognised the potential political and economic threats and acting accordingly - same applies to other Western countries.

Ok but where does 'Socialist ways' come into it? We see Americans preaching 'dimock racee" all the time on various public screens. Not a sign of the Chinese. In fact, a corrupt politician is just that, and seldom ideological.