Should the unvaccinated be discriminated against when Thailand reopens?

[gummy]

4 minutes ago, AdvocatusDiaboli said:

Stuck at the airport ….. without a ticket 

The rest are in ICU begging for treatment

[AdvocatusDiaboli]

Just now, gummy said:

The rest are in ICU begging for treatment

Unless in Phuket ICU as that has been stuck on 35 patients for the last 13 days …. even with the daily covid deaths.

Allegedly they have to beg harder there.

[Changnam43]

Didn't there used to be a syphilis test or similar for people working here as English teachers?

Though I have no idea why an STD would be a requirement for that job.

Of course I may have got this completely wrong

 

[Del_SoL]

On 9/27/2021 at 11:23 AM, MrStretch said:

"Vaccinated people are not as likely to spread the coronavirus as the unvaccinated."

Yes we all see it in Israel with near fully vaccinated population.

Where twice vaccinated already becomes......oops  "unvaccinated".  And lost their magic "green pass".

It's time for your forth dose, assh@le! Obey!

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/

Heil Phazer!

[Marc26]

Shouldn't the easy answer be, that they can do whatever the hell they want and you can't whine about shit, because it's not your country, you are a guest???

 

I mean that really is the only answer, it's ludicrous that people think they can complain about what another country that isn't your own decides to do regarding their entry policies.......

 

I look at a country's entry policies and deem if they are acceptable to me, that's it. If not, I don't go.

[Blogosopher]

How about this concept: when it comes to unvaccinated taking up beds needed for less preventable situations, let's take it a step further...there are people (working) that pay monthly into the welfare system, including for health care and a great amount of people (not working) who do not. Why should someone who is paying for their healthcare through the government mandated taxation be denied an ICU bed in favor of someone who doesn't pay into the system? Isn't it morally worse to deny someone who has paid for the services than to deny someone who has not? 

[Blogosopher]

10 hours ago, Changnam43 said:

Didn't there used to be a syphilis test or similar for people working here as English teachers?

Though I have no idea why an STD would be a requirement for that job.

Of course I may have got this completely wrong

There still is such a requirement. It used to be the doctor could examine your eyes and give a determination but now they require blood tests. Perhaps the Thais believe that the disease in the advanced stage is what is leading to "Baa" (crazy) foreign teachers? There were plenty of ting-tong foreigners come through the school where I  taught with no single country having a monopoly on it.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Blogosopher
grammar

[Poolie]

5 minutes ago, Blogosopher said:

How about this concept: when it comes to unvaccinated taking up beds needed for less preventable situations, let's take it a step further...there are people (working) that pay monthly into the welfare system, including for health care and a great amount of people (not working) who do not. Why should someone who is paying for their healthcare through the government mandated taxation be denied an ICU bed in favor of someone who doesn't pay into the system? Isn't it morally worse to deny someone who has paid for the services than to deny someone who has not? 

It sort of blows a hole in the Hippocratic Oath though. Never mind America, who don't care for that sort of thing.

[9S_]

10 minutes ago, Blogosopher said:

Isn't it morally worse to deny someone who has paid for the services than to deny someone who has not? 

It’s morally wrong to deny ICU emergency treatment to anyone. Their income or their vaccination status are irrelevant. It’s discriminatory, which is morally wrong  

[Blogosopher]

On 9/27/2021 at 7:44 AM, palooka said:

Over her in the East they are jabbing as fast as they can with clinics in temples and govt offices and 2 shot turn around of Sinovac in two weeks. Sinovac..... I know, but it is what they have and anything, hopefully is better than nothing.

The Govt dropped the ball Song Krong this year, be it due to big business pressure or perceived pressure, probably lack of money and now thousands have paid with their lives.

As for not exposing the unvaxed who want vax to risk, the big kids who run things have one thing in mind and that is baht coming their way and sadly more deaths don't enter the equation.

The government didn't spread Covid over Songkran, people did. Most people who contract Covid on any day or contracted Covid over Songkran did so because of not being diligent about following the prescribed preventative measures. It's no different than at any other time. Wear a mask, socially distance, and sanitize your hands frequently. These 3 measures will lower your chances of contracting Covid significantly.  

It ain't rocket science but it seems to be too complicated for lots of the "it won't happen to me" people.

[Blogosopher]

1 minute ago, 9S_ said:

It’s morally wrong to deny ICU emergency treatment to anyone. Their income or their vaccination status are irrelevant. It’s discriminatory, which is morally wrong  

So, denying someone something that they paid for isn't wrong? That's what your saying.

[9S_]

3 minutes ago, Blogosopher said:

So, denying someone something that they paid for isn't wrong? That's what your saying.

Discrimination in all of its forms is wrong. 

[JohninDublin]

32 minutes ago, 9S_ said:

It’s morally wrong to deny ICU emergency treatment to anyone. Their income or their vaccination status are irrelevant. It’s discriminatory, which is morally wrong  

That's far too simplistic an argument. A few years back, my wife had a transplant, and I wasn't allowed to visit her because I had a cold. Is that not discrimination? In that case, I presented a risk. As do the unvaccinated. 

So what about PCR tests. Should airlines be allowed to discriminate against passengers who have not passed this? Should the US have been allowed to lock up Typhoid Mary, when she refused to stop working as a cook, or have the medical procedure necessary to stop her being a typhoid carrier? 

Should a business be able to discriminate against those who refuse to wear a mask on their premises.

Just to clarify, I don't condone any person being denied treatment, but I am all in favour of measures that are taken for the greater good.

Edited September 28, 2021 by JohninDubin

[JohninDublin]

35 minutes ago, Blogosopher said:

The government didn't spread Covid over Songkran, people did. Most people who contract Covid on any day or contracted Covid over Songkran did so because of not being diligent about following the prescribed preventative measures. It's no different than at any other time. Wear a mask, socially distance, and sanitize your hands frequently. These 3 measures will lower your chances of contracting Covid significantly.  

It ain't rocket science but it seems to be too complicated for lots of the "it won't happen to me" people.

I think that is also far too simplistic. The gov lifted the restrictions and would have known that people were going to try to enjoy themselves for Song Khran. Bojo in the UK did exactly the same for Xmas when the infections were less than 20k daily, and three weeks later, there were 60k cases a day.

[9S_]

12 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

That's far too simplistic an argument. A few years back, my wife had a transplant, and I wasn't allowed to visit her because I had a cold. Is that not discrimination? In that case, I presented a risk. As do the unvaccinated. 

I’m not arguing about patient visits. Must be easy to designate a fellow human being as an other

 

12 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

So what about PCR tests. Should airlines be allowed to discriminate against passengers who have not passed this? Should the US have been allowed to lock up Typhoid Mary, when she refused to stop working as a cook, or have the medical procedure necessary to stop her being a typhoid carrier? 

I’m not arguing about airline seats

 

12 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

Should a business be able to discriminate against those who refuse to wear a mask on their premises.

You’re misconstruing my argument. Again I’m not talking about masks private businesses

 

12 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

Just to clarify, I don't condone any person being denied treatment

There you go. That’s my argument. Discrimination is wrong in regards to saving peoples lives. It’s not simple it’s basic human rights.

[Benroon]

On 9/27/2021 at 4:34 AM, BraveNewFahrenheit said:

It is about dividing people. It is about power and control. Covid makes a lot more sense when you start to view it as a tool of control for those in power.

Not poor old Bill Gates again is it the man who's so far given away $35,000,000,000 to combat poverty ?

So, can you give us some names of the dastardly people and perhaps their motives, this should be good.

Bojo wouldn't be able to run a bath so we can safely rule him out

 

[JohninDublin]

1 minute ago, 9S_ said:

I’m not arguing about patient visits. 

I’m not arguing about airline seats

You’re misconstruing my argument. Again I’m not talking about mama or private businesses

There you go. That’s my argument. Discrimination is wrong in regards to saving peoples lives. 

I think you are being disingenuous here. You stated elsewhere of this thread: "Discrimination in all of its forms is wrong", and I given you handful of examples which are all examples of discrimination. Suddenly, "all" is abandoned. 

I believe in the importance of human life, and thus I am not impressed by those who are prepared to play Russian Roulette with others lives by refusing vaxxing and refusing to wear masks, and fully support the discrimination by Airlines, Businesses, Care Homes, Govs etc until such times as the refuseniks represent a negligible threat. Don't forget, this all started with one "patient zero". Now there are 2.3 billion who have been infected and 4.7 mill dead.

[Benroon]

On 9/27/2021 at 4:28 AM, palooka said:

The vaccinated can still get Covid.

The unvaccinated can get Covid. 
Covid doesn't choose who to infect. The unvaccinated probably do not pose a risk to the vaccinated population only to themselves and their own chances of survival if they contract the disease. They do impose a possible undue burden on the health facilities but after reopeniing the vaccinated may do the same. No one knows.

Transmission of Covid from an unvaccinated person is no different to Covid transmitted from a Asymtomatic vaccinated person.

So why all this discrimination against anti vax people?

You've answered your own question, the driving force behind the vaccines has always been so that health services are not overwhelmed. So whilst I don't give a monkies if fools go around willingly unvaccinated and nor do I believe it should be mandatory, they become a pain in the arse when they require more intense hospitalization care due to their own stupidity whilst a more responsible person who played their part may not get a bed because of it.

[9S_]

5 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

think you are being disingenuous here

No I’m not. 

 

6 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

You stated elsewhere of this thread: "Discrimination in all of its forms is wrong", and I given you handful of examples which are all examples of discrimination. Suddenly, "all" is abandoned.

And now you’re misconstruing my own argument!

Whose comment did I initially reply? How did he rebut my comment? And how did I respond?

[JohninDublin]

1 minute ago, 9S_ said:

No I’m not. 

And now you’re misconstruing my own argument!

Whose comment did I initially reply? How did he rebut my comment? And how did I respond?

If I've misconstrued it, then I think that reflects on your lack of clarity.

[Benroon]

On 9/27/2021 at 7:57 AM, PBS said:

So far as I'm aware no government has enacted legislation to discriminate against anti vaxxers. On the other hand I say anti vaxxers are acting against the best interest of the majority by slowing down the fully vaccinated percentages to meet government targets to open up the economy and ease restrictions on movement and so on. Additionally the majority of deaths currently from Covid in Western countries is within the anti vaxxed community and transmission which creates pressure on health services and delays access to medical services for other serious illnesses. IMO anti vaxxers are selfish people standing on political soap boxes; it is well worth asking why so many are aligned to politics to the right of centre i.e. in fact representing anti democratic tendencies.

Great point, I wonder how many anti vaxxers are complaining the bars aren't open and will only open when 'x' amount of people have been vaccinated. Hmmmm......

[9S_]

3 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

If I've misconstrued it, then I think that reflects on your lack of clarity.

No it’s not my fault you decided to interject yourself and then misconstrue my argument then accuse me of not making you understand when I was clearly VERY clearly saying you do not discriminate against emergency/life saving medical services/ICU beds. Your vaccination status and inability to pay are irrelevant 

please do better next time

[JohninDublin]

13 minutes ago, 9S_ said:

No it’s not my fault you decided to interject yourself and then misconstrue my argument then accuse me of not making you understand when I was clearly VERY clearly saying you do not discriminate against emergency/life saving medical services/ICU beds. Your vaccination status and inability to pay are irrelevant 

please do better next time

Give it up. There is plenty of thread drift on these boards. I am supposed to know you are not drifting. You specifically "all". That's the post I responded too. I also specifically stated that I had no argument with the rest of your post about denying treatment. 

Other than that we are going to have to agree to disagree about your clarity.

[9S_]

8 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

Give it up.

No you accused me of lacking clarity when you obviously misconstrued my argument of: do not deny emergency treatment even if one cannot pay or someone’s vaccination status

 

9 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

You specifically "all"

Again in regards to what? What did he say and how did I reply? Going back further what was his initial argument? How did I rebut? How did he counter argue? What was my clarification?

[JohninDublin]

On 9/27/2021 at 4:34 AM, BraveNewFahrenheit said:

It is about dividing people. It is about power and control. Covid makes a lot more sense when you start to view it as a tool of control for those in power.

I don't know if that really passes the smell test. From what I can see just looking at the US and the UK, the people who are most likely to be opposed to mask, vaxxes, quarantines etc are mainly on the right. With those on the left taking the opposite view.

If it's about dividing people, it seems to me that they have duplicated an already existing division. So what would the point be?