News Forum - US calls meeting with Thai officials to resolve donated vaccines

[DrPhibes]

On 9/27/2021 at 3:53 PM, Metaluna said:

But it does help guarantee employment.

Dude, I have to give you the Happy Hawaiian Shirt of excellence just for your choice of profile name and pic!  Death to the Zagons!

[Metaluna]

If you place it in front of the Interociter, I'll be grateful for the shirt.

[Alavan]

On 9/27/2021 at 11:52 AM, Bob20 said:

Sure, the whole world will try to accommodate the ineptitude of Thailand...

Ever heard of customs declarations? Or know about the difficulties in transporting the Pfizer vaccine? 

It's the same as the rejected help offers from expats at the time of the tsunami, the new rule that Covid donations in kind could no longer be given to individuals but had to go through a Government intermediary and now difficulties to donate something very valuable and sorely needed.

As if they weren't isolated enough already!

What is so difficult with making a customs declaration? It happens thousands of times in every port and airport where cargo is handled. every good expediteur and shipping agent can do it.
Transporting Pfizer from the US to Thailand is not so special. It is put in boxes with dry ice. That is how it was transported from Belgium to the US. And don't they have fridges that work to that temperature? Ask the Japanese for some reefer containers that work to that extreme low temperature (they use them for shipping fresh frozen tuna to their fishmarkets.

[Bob20]

2 minutes ago, Alavan said:

What is so difficult with making a customs declaration? It happens thousands of times in every port and airport where cargo is handled. every good expediteur and shipping agent can do it.
Transporting Pfizer from the US to Thailand is not so special. It is put in boxes with dry ice. That is how it was transported from Belgium to the US. And don't they have fridges that work to that temperature? Ask the Japanese for some reefer containers that work to that extreme low temperature (they use them for shipping fresh frozen tuna to their fishmarkets.

Well, first of all it's definitely not just put in boxes with dry ice, nor can you put it in reefer containers, but you can look that up for yourself. 

But besides, if someone offers you a gift in the value of about $27 million, you might have some decency and manners instead of expecting it to be dropped off at your front-door, even denying that you know about it when in fact you have given press-conferences that 1.5m+1m were being donated!

It's shockingly appalling, and this attitude is exactly why Thailand is stuck in the position it's in!

[HiuMak]

9 hours ago, Alavan said:

What is so difficult with making a customs declaration? It happens thousands of times in every port and airport where cargo is handled. every good expediteur and shipping agent can do it.
Transporting Pfizer from the US to Thailand is not so special. It is put in boxes with dry ice. That is how it was transported from Belgium to the US. And don't they have fridges that work to that temperature? Ask the Japanese for some reefer containers that work to that extreme low temperature (they use them for shipping fresh frozen tuna to their fishmarkets.

It is not rocket science to transport medication that are sensitive to temperature. I do not believe Thailand has never done it before. Customs it's another issue. It's just plain bureaucracy. 

[Alavan]

23 hours ago, Bob20 said:

Well, first of all it's definitely not just put in boxes with dry ice, nor can you put it in reefer containers, but you can look that up for yourself. 

But besides, if someone offers you a gift in the value of about $27 million, you might have some decency and manners instead of expecting it to be dropped off at your front-door, even denying that you know about it when in fact you have given press-conferences that 1.5m+1m were being donated!

It's shockingly appalling, and this attitude is exactly why Thailand is stuck in the position it's in!

Pfizer vaccin was transported from the production unit in Belgium to the US packed with dry ice and airlifted. So why can't this happen again?
Has Thailand realy no adequate freezers to keep it at low temperature? And there must be reefer containers enough to transport those around Thailand.
Paperwork can be done by any expediteur or shipping firm, just pay them for that. You will find them on BKK airport (freight) and Laem Chabang.
Just be gracefull and thank the US (and other donating countries) and start working on the job.
And tell Thai customs to get the job done clearing those vaccins asap.

 

[Bob20]

5 minutes ago, Alavan said:

Pfizer vaccin was transported from the production unit in Belgium to the US packed with dry ice and airlifted. So why can't this happen again?
Has Thailand realy no adequate freezers to keep it at low temperature? And there must be reefer containers enough to transport those around Thailand.
Paperwork can be done by any expediteur or shipping firm, just pay them for that. You will find them on BKK airport (freight) and Laem Chabang.
Just be gracefull and thank the US (and other donating countries) and start working on the job.
And tell Thai customs to get the job done clearing those vaccins asap.

Friend, I understand what you are saying, but it's not that simple and beyond what you've read in the paper you don't seem to know about the complexity of these things.

This is not a phone cable from Amazon.com!

This is medication that is licensed and each separate batch number and amount must be registered for shipment and export/import separately. The receiving country must have the registration also, or it can not be shipped. And you can not ship medication to anyone, not even a government. It must be shipped to a medical authority for which advance authorisation is required.

Then there's the matter of Thai acceptance, because when it arrives it will have a huge value and customs will not just allow its through because it is shipped as a gift to a medical authority (probably the GPO).

So the paperwork isn't easy and Thailand clearly hasn't prepared it.

Then there's the shipping. That's not as simple as you write either:

• In the U.S., our distribution approach will be to largely ship from our Kalamazoo, Michigan, site direct to the point of use (POU). 
• We have developed packaging and storage innovations to be fit for purpose for the range of locations where we believe vaccinations will take place. We have specially designed,temperature-controlled thermal shippers.
• We will utilize GPS-enabled thermal sensors with a control tower that will track the location and temperature of each vaccine shipment across their pre-set routes, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. These GPS-enabled devices will allow Pfizer to proactively prevent unwanted deviations and act before they happen.
• Once a POU receives a thermal shipper with our vaccine, they have options for storage:
  • - Ultra-low-temperature freezers, which are commercially available and can extend shelf life for up to six months.
  • - The Pfizer thermal shippers, in which doses will arrive, that can be used as temporary storage units by refilling with dry ice every five days for up to 30 days of storage.

It all requires planning, as you don't want such value to go to waste. They're already talking about it since mid-July and it's easy to understand that the US isn't shipping this "hoping" it will be alright.

But the most important thing (for me) is the Thai arrogance. If a nation is prepared to donate something that Thailand really needs, and of great value, the least they can do is cooperate to the maximum. Instead they're saying to the US "it's your fault"! It's offensive.

If I were the US, I'd have sent it somewhere else already.

[Alavan]

17 hours ago, Bob20 said:

Friend, I understand what you are saying, but it's not that simple and beyond what you've read in the paper you don't seem to know about the complexity of these things.

This is not a phone cable from Amazon.com!

This is medication that is licensed and each separate batch number and amount must be registered for shipment and export/import separately. The receiving country must have the registration also, or it can not be shipped. And you can not ship medication to anyone, not even a government. It must be shipped to a medical authority for which advance authorisation is required.

Then there's the matter of Thai acceptance, because when it arrives it will have a huge value and customs will not just allow its through because it is shipped as a gift to a medical authority (probably the GPO).

So the paperwork isn't easy and Thailand clearly hasn't prepared it.

Then there's the shipping. That's not as simple as you write either:

• In the U.S., our distribution approach will be to largely ship from our Kalamazoo, Michigan, site direct to the point of use (POU). 
• We have developed packaging and storage innovations to be fit for purpose for the range of locations where we believe vaccinations will take place. We have specially designed,temperature-controlled thermal shippers.
• We will utilize GPS-enabled thermal sensors with a control tower that will track the location and temperature of each vaccine shipment across their pre-set routes, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. These GPS-enabled devices will allow Pfizer to proactively prevent unwanted deviations and act before they happen.
• Once a POU receives a thermal shipper with our vaccine, they have options for storage:
  • - Ultra-low-temperature freezers, which are commercially available and can extend shelf life for up to six months.
  • - The Pfizer thermal shippers, in which doses will arrive, that can be used as temporary storage units by refilling with dry ice every five days for up to 30 days of storage.

It all requires planning, as you don't want such value to go to waste. They're already talking about it since mid-July and it's easy to understand that the US isn't shipping this "hoping" it will be alright.

But the most important thing (for me) is the Thai arrogance. If a nation is prepared to donate something that Thailand really needs, and of great value, the least they can do is cooperate to the maximum. Instead they're saying to the US "it's your fault"! It's offensive.

If I were the US, I'd have sent it somewhere else already.

Being in the shipping industry my whole working life, worked the seaside and the shoreside of it, signing thousands of Bills of Loading in Europe, US and Africa, handling customs (and immigration) documents, doing cargo care on board and a lot of other things, I hope I understand something of the problem.
That is why I spoke of expediteurs and shipping agents.
Pfizer is exported since December last year from Puurs (Belgium) via Brussels airport to Israel, UK, US and a lot of other countries, so I guess their packaging and storing in Europe/US must be ok.
Those GPS-enabled thermal sensors are in use since about 10 years.
So for me it is just a matter of the paperwork done.

[Bob20]

1 minute ago, Alavan said:

Being in the shipping industry my whole working life, worked the seaside and the shoreside of it, signing thousands of Bills of Loading in Europe, US and Africa, handling customs (and immigration) documents, doing cargo care on board and a lot of other things, I hope I understand something of the problem.
That is why I spoke of expediteurs and shipping agents.
Pfizer is exported since December last year from Puurs (Belgium) via Brussels airport to Israel, UK, US and a lot of other countries, so I guess their packaging and storing in Europe/US must be ok.
Those GPS-enabled thermal sensors are in use since about 10 years.
So for me it is just a matter of the paperwork done.

Yes, agreed, but that's not what you said before.

And my contention is that it's not the paperwork but politics that is delaying it 

[DrBongo]

On 9/27/2021 at 2:19 PM, Marc26 said:

We spent 2 months in Boston May-July

My wife got her Pfizer vaccines in Boston

Coming up on 4th of July, she said "this year I am going to celebrate 4th of July extra because America gave me the vaccine"  :)

I thought that was cutely appreciative (and nice)

Boston. I'm in Amherst. Sister-in-law is in Arlington.

[Marc26]

4 hours ago, DrBongo said:

Boston. I'm in Amherst. Sister-in-law is in Arlington.

My whole family, both sides, are from Charlestown, I grew up in Everett

Basically lived in both places growing up

 

We used to play Arlington in high school

Stadium right on the fellsway