Getting started

[ODAT]

Hey everyone

Heading towards retirement at end of year and hoping to get back to Thailand for long terms stay

most recent visit was this year Feb thru June

would appreciate any helpful info on acquiring long term visa (1 year to start)

I am familiar with the requirements listed on embassy website over here and jumped through all the hoops on my last entry (CoVid test,COE,insurance, ASQ,etc)

hoping to come in March and also hoping some of the requirements will lessen by then

main question I have is if it easier to get over there on Tourist visa-then apply for long term of if better to do while here

opened bank account while there but some of the documentation isn’t clear 

anyways -appreciate any feedback

will post later in Visa section

peace-

[JamesE]

Welcome to the asylum. You'll receive the keys soon. Have a scan through the Visa... section, there's a wealth of info already posted.

[Faraday]

Welcome Odat, where do you want to live when you come back?

 

[gummy]

6 hours ago, ODAT said:

Hey everyone

Heading towards retirement at end of year and hoping to get back to Thailand for long terms stay

most recent visit was this year Feb thru June

would appreciate any helpful info on acquiring long term visa (1 year to start)

I am familiar with the requirements listed on embassy website over here and jumped through all the hoops on my last entry (CoVid test,COE,insurance, ASQ,etc)

hoping to come in March and also hoping some of the requirements will lessen by then

main question I have is if it easier to get over there on Tourist visa-then apply for long term of if better to do while here

opened bank account while there but some of the documentation isn’t clear 

anyways -appreciate any feedback

will post later in Visa section

peace-

Good to have another member, enjoy the forum

[Lowseasonlover]

Welcome to Thiager Talk good luck with your move to Thailand, look forward to your contributions to the forum

[AussieBob]

Welcome mate - enjoy the ride. 

There are some people who take up the option of arriving on a tourist visa and then extending their 'Permission to Stay' for 12 months based on retirement. But as a newbie and unless you have a Thai GF/Friend who can go with you to the local Immigration Office, I would not recommend that approach.

Unless things have changed - please update me expert/s if I am wrong with this below.   

I would apply for a multi-entry 12 months Non O-A with multiple entry in your home country.  Make sure you apply when you are ready to leave - you have 12 months from date of the Visa being granted. Then when you arrive you will be granted 12 months Permission to Stay.  Because you have a multiple entry Non O-A Visa valid for 12 months, you can leave and come back within the 12 months of the application approval, and you are automatically granted another 12 months Permission to Stay.  It used to be that you could go across the bridge a Vientiane to Laos for the day, and then come back and it was all good - but maybe you will nowadays need to fly somewhere for a day - I am not sure.  But the point is that if you time it right, you will get almost 2 years without having to go through the tedious costly annual extension process at your local friendly professional organised corrupt incompetent ignorant Immigration Office (cross out whichever does not apply ).

I know of one bloke here that would use the original Non O-A Visa to stay almost 2 years, by returning home a once a year - he would then apply for a new one in Australia for the next 2 years.  If you plan to travel back to your home country each year, then that is my recommended approach as you can avoid all the local Immigration 'issues' in Thailand completely. 

[JamesE]

48 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

I would apply for a multi-entry 12 months Non O-A with multiple entry in your home country. 

Like Meatloaf sang in the song "Bat Out of Hell": "STOP RIGHT THERE!"

O-A visas require health insurance for the duration of your stay. While the method you mention does (effectively) give you 24 months you will have to pay thousands for the health insurance. Best bet is to come in on a TV, convert it to an O (Retirement), extend that for a year, and add re-entry. Same end result (a bit longer if you play the calendar right) but no in-country health insurance needed.

So, @AussieBob's method is fine unless you don't want to have the mandatory health insurance. If you want (need?) to get the health insurance then it's better because you can keep your money in whatever currency is customary in your home country.

Best place for the discussion is in the Visa sub where all the pros and cons have been laid out.

[ODAT]

2 hours ago, Faraday said:

Welcome Odat, where do you want to live when you come back?

Thx Faraday!

ill be mostly in Chiang Mai but will probably venture down to Koh Chang during the hot months

I’ve been south to north and have spent some time in a few places but I seem to be partial to the Chiang Mai  area

grew up in Boston so city boy at heart but not really interested in being in large cities much these days 

[KaptainRob]

5 minutes ago, ODAT said:

ill be mostly in Chiang Mai but will probably venture down to Koh Chang during the hot months

I’ve been south to north and have spent some time in a few places but I seem to be partial to the Chiang Mai  area

Good choice!

Welcome to the forum Odat.

[ODAT]

1 hour ago, JamesE said:

Like Meatloaf sang in the song "Bat Out of Hell": "STOP RIGHT THERE!"

O-A visas require health insurance for the duration of your stay. While the method you mention does (effectively) give you 24 months you will have to pay thousands for the health insurance. Best bet is to come in on a TV, convert it to an O (Retirement), extend that for a year, and add re-entry. Same end result (a bit longer if you play the calendar right) but no in-country health insurance needed.

So, @AussieBob's method is fine unless you don't want to have the mandatory health insurance. If you want (need?) to get the health insurance then it's better because you can keep your money in whatever currency is customary in your home country.

Best place for the discussion is in the Visa sub where all the pros and cons have been laid out.

Thx for reply (and to AussieBob as well:)

I’m going to peruse the Visa section over next couple of days -I know I will figure out what is best plan 

Hoping that at least by the time I return in March that a lot of the restrictions have been lifted or at the very least lessened which will make the process a bit easier 

when I came this January the amount of hoops to jump through was insane

after I did the ASQ I extended the tourist visa a few times but even that was an adventure each time I went to say the least 

 

will see you around and again I appreciate the responses from all

[AussieBob]

On 9/26/2021 at 10:26 AM, JamesE said:

Like Meatloaf sang in the song "Bat Out of Hell": "STOP RIGHT THERE!"

O-A visas require health insurance for the duration of your stay. While the method you mention does (effectively) give you 24 months you will have to pay thousands for the health insurance. Best bet is to come in on a TV, convert it to an O (Retirement), extend that for a year, and add re-entry. Same end result (a bit longer if you play the calendar right) but no in-country health insurance needed.

So, @AussieBob's method is fine unless you don't want to have the mandatory health insurance. If you want (need?) to get the health insurance then it's better because you can keep your money in whatever currency is customary in your home country.

Best place for the discussion is in the Visa sub where all the pros and cons have been laid out.

The mandatory health insurance is an issue - but I understand that there are cheap options that can be organised and are acceptable to the Embassy in Aust (dont do it myself). 

Are you saying that to extend permission in Thailand based on retirement does not require the health insurance?  I was of the understanding that it does, and that only extension for reason of marriage does not (yet).

[JamesE]

3 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

Are you saying that to extend permission in Thailand based on retirement does not require the health insurance?

Correct. Only the O-A/O-X maintain the insurance requirement.

[AussieBob]

23 hours ago, JamesE said:

Correct. Only the O-A/O-X maintain the insurance requirement.

Thanks @JamesE - I have double checked (of course) and you are right - annual extension inside Thailand based on both retirement and marriage do not require the mandatory - it is only mandatory for those applying for a retirement visa from outside Thailand. I never did that as I arrived on a retirement visa long time ago and we left before the insurance change in 2019.  Clearly what that bloke is/was doing I mentioned is not the right way to go if you want to avoid the (scam) health insurance mandate.

Therefore your advice is the way to go for sure.  I would also recommend @ODATlook at getting one of those 'long term' tourist Visas that can be extended in-country several times, up to 90 months stay. That gives plenty of time to prepare what is needed to get done for an annual extension based on retirement when that visa expires.

 

[JamesE]

1 hour ago, AussieBob said:

I would also recommend @ODATlook at getting one of those 'long term' tourist Visas that can be extended in-country several times, up to 90 months stay. That gives plenty of time to prepare what is needed to get done for an annual extension based on retirement when that visa expires.

Hopefully @Faz or @BlueSphinx can weigh in on this but if I remember right the STV is not a "convertible" visa. It was "Welcome, spend your money, and go home." from the beginning. Plus it's got a worse health insurance requirement (matching the COVID amount) for the entire stay.

[Faz]

On 9/29/2021 at 6:21 AM, AussieBob said:

Are you saying that to extend permission in Thailand based on retirement does not require the health insurance?  I was of the understanding that it does, and that only extension for reason of marriage does not (yet).

On 9/29/2021 at 6:25 AM, JamesE said:

Correct. Only the O-A/O-X maintain the insurance requirement.

3 hours ago, AussieBob said:

Thanks @JamesE - I have double checked (of course) and you are right - annual extension inside Thailand based on both retirement and marriage do not require the mandatory - it is only mandatory for those applying for a retirement visa from outside Thailand.

I think you've misunderstood @JamesE reply Bob.

For the Non Imm O-A/O-X Visas, the mandatory 400/40K Health Insurance applies to both the Visa application (Thai Embassy) AND to applying to extend your permission of stay at a local Immigration office in Thailand.

The O-A/O-X are applied for purely on the basis of retirement and Immigration have been known to refuse to extend based on Thai spouse because these 'long stay' Visa types were based purely on retirement.

The other abnormality is that you may have an existing foreign Health Insurance policy meeting the requirements and accepted by the Embassy for the initial Visa application, (although by rights the foreign Insurer should complete a foreign Insurance certificate) but it will not be accepted by local Immigration offices when you try to extend your stay.
They insist the Health Insurance policies must be purchased from one of the approved companies through the tgia website. https://longstay.tgia.org/

This is why the Embassies provide the above link as a recommendation where to purchase the Health Insurance from, to avoid issues with internal Immigration offices once in Thailand.

[Faz]

3 hours ago, AussieBob said:

Therefore your advice is the way to go for sure.  I would also recommend @ODATlook at getting one of those 'long term' tourist Visas that can be extended in-country several times, up to 90 months stay. That gives plenty of time to prepare what is needed to get done for an annual extension based on retirement when that visa expires.

There is no long term Tourist Visa that allows you to stay 90 months.
Did you mean 9 months?

[BlueSphinx]

14 minutes ago, Faz said:

I think you've misunderstood @JamesE reply Bob.

For the Non Imm O-A/O-X Visas, the mandatory 400/40K Health Insurance applies to both the Visa application (Thai Embassy) AND to applying to extend your permission of stay at a local Immigration office in Thailand.

The O-A/O-X are applied for purely on the basis of retirement and Immigration have been known to refuse to extend based on Thai spouse because these 'long stay' Visa types were based purely on retirement.

The other abnormality is that you may have an existing foreign Health Insurance policy meeting the requirements and accepted by the Embassy for the initial Visa application, (although by rights the foreign Insurer should complete a foreign Insurance certificate) but it will not be accepted by local Immigration offices when you try to extend your stay.
They insist the Health Insurance policies must be purchased from one of the approved companies through the tgia website. https://longstay.tgia.org/

This is why the Embassies provide the above link as a recommendation where to purchase the Health Insurance from, to avoid issues with internal Immigration offices once in Thailand.

You wrote > The O-A/O-X are applied for purely on the basis of retirement and Immigration have been known to refuse to extend based on Thai spouse because these 'long stay' Visa types were based purely on retirement. 

You are right that some Immigration Offices don't allow to change the reason for the FIRST extension of your Non Imm O-A Visa from 'retirement' to 'marriage' (e.g. a case in Phuket).  The reason they gave for not allowing that was that your FIRST extension must have the same 'reason' (i.e. retirement) than the original Visa you are extending.  Personally I think that Phuket office refusal was more an excuse for not having to process the more lengthy 'marriage' extension from the applicant, as there are also cases from Non Imm O-A Visa holders that had their 1-year extension for reason of marriage approved even when it was their first extension.  Anyway, once you are applying for an extension renewal of your already existing 1-year extension of stay, there is no reason why your Immigration Office would not allow you to switch the reason for application from retirement to marriage.   

[Faz]

30 minutes ago, BlueSphinx said:

Anyway, once you are applying for an extension renewal of your already existing 1-year extension of stay, there is no reason why your Immigration Office would not allow you to switch the reason for application from retirement to marriage.

Completely at the discretion of the officer/office concerned.
Even after the first extension based on retirement, certain offices have refused, insisting they must obtain a Non Imm O Visa. Nothing in the Immigration Bureaus orders covers this scenario.

The orders merely state a Non Immigrant Visa, but certain offices specify a type.

Same with those on an original Non Imm B visa, stopped working and apply for a further extension based on retirement/Thai spouse. Whilst some offices have obliged, others have insisted they go out of Country and obtain a Non Imm type O Visa first.
No consistency.

I'll add that when these tales come to light, we only have the applicants report. We don't really know if they were refused because the IO was purely to lazy or to incompetent to process the application, or if the applicant didn't have his documents in order.

[Faz]

3 hours ago, JamesE said:

Hopefully @Faz or @BlueSphinx can weigh in on this but if I remember right the STV is not a "convertible" visa. It was "Welcome, spend your money, and go home." from the beginning. Plus it's got a worse health insurance requirement (matching the COVID amount) for the entire stay.

Correct @JamesE

To apply for a 1 year extension of stay for any reason, you must have been originally issued a Non Immigrant type Visa. The TV, METV and STV are all classed as 'Tourist' type Visas, not 'Non Immigrant' types.

However there is a procedure available to change your status as one of entering as a Tourist, to that of Non Immigrant status at local Immigration offices, as a prelude to applying for a 1 year extension.

The STV does not allow such change of status, it is as you state a possible 9 month stay, spend your money and leave Thailand. Maybe that's why they chose to call it 'Special' as normal Immigration procedures don't apply.

The fact that Thailand has 'reinstated' the STV for a further year (Sept 2022) also suggests they don't expect borders to reopen anytime in the near future. If they stop the 60 day Covid extensions before borders reopen, that will leave a lot of foreigners with a Thai spouse (who previously used the ME Non O Visas from Savannakhet and HCMC) to stay in Thailand, in a sticky corner.

Uncertain  times ahead for the foreseeable future for a few.

[AussieBob]

@JamesE  @Faz @BlueSphinx  Thanks for all the info - very interesting.  

Could I ask.

If I arrive on a Non-O Marriage Visa, which does not require the mandated health insurance, will my annual extensions require the mandatory Thai health insurance (at this time - I know the Junta may change the policy later).  

If I arrive on a Tourist Visa, and then extend my stay long-term based on Marriage, will that process or any future annual extensions require the mandatory Thai health insurance (again, at this time - I know the Junta may change the policy later). 

 

[BlueSphinx]

34 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

@JamesE  @Faz @BlueSphinx  Thanks for all the info - very interesting.  

Could I ask.

If I arrive on a Non-O Marriage Visa, which does not require the mandated health insurance, will my annual extensions require the mandatory Thai health insurance (at this time - I know the Junta may change the policy later).  

If I arrive on a Tourist Visa, and then extend my stay long-term based on Marriage, will that process or any future annual extensions require the mandatory Thai health insurance (again, at this time - I know the Junta may change the policy later). 

Quick response > NO

The 400K/40K health-insurance is ONLY required when applying at the Thai Embassy in your home-country or country of permanent residence for the 1-year ME Non Imm O-A Visa.  It is currently as part of the CoE requirements also required when applying for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of RETIREMENT. 

Once you are in Thailand there is currently only ONE case where it is required, and that is when applying for the 1-year extension based on your original Non Imm O-A Visa and when doing so for reason of RETIREMENT.   When applying for the 1-year extension based on your original Non Imm O-A Visa you cannot make use of foreign insurance to meet that 400K/40K health-insurance requirement, as the Thai Immigration offices require that you make use of a TGIA-associated THAI insurer for that mandatory 400K/40K health-insurance policy.  But when applying for the Non Imm O-A Visa or the 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement, you can make use of foreign insurance (if you are able to convince your foreign insurer to fill in the Foreign Insurance Certificate).

Note: When you are confronted with that mandatory 400K/40K health-insurance requirement (see above, if it is applicable for you) do send me a PM and I will provide you then with a comprehensive Guideline document on how to meet that mandatory Health-Insurance requirement.  It is neither difficult nor costly to meet the requirement (if you know how).   

[Faz]

1 hour ago, AussieBob said:

If I arrive on a Non-O Marriage Visa, which does not require the mandated health insurance, will my annual extensions require the mandatory Thai health insurance (at this time - I know the Junta may change the policy later).  

No.

1 hour ago, AussieBob said:

If I arrive on a Tourist Visa, and then extend my stay long-term based on Marriage, will that process or any future annual extensions require the mandatory Thai health insurance (again, at this time - I know the Junta may change the policy later). 

No.

The only difference is if you enter on a TV, you'll then have to apply for the Non O at your local Immigration office as a prelude to applying for a 1 year extension of stay based on marriage.
If you want to minimise the bureaucracy and application procedures, apply for the Non Imm O at your Thai Embassy to enter Thailand.

The other important question Bob, is where did you marry your Thai wife, in Thailand or Australia?

[AussieBob]

On 10/1/2021 at 1:14 PM, Faz said:

No.

No.

The only difference is if you enter on a TV, you'll then have to apply for the Non O at your local Immigration office as a prelude to applying for a 1 year extension of stay based on marriage.
If you want to minimise the bureaucracy and application procedures, apply for the Non Imm O at your Thai Embassy to enter Thailand.

The other important question Bob, is where did you marry your Thai wife, in Thailand or Australia?

In Thailand - all done years ago. Firstly the local ceremony in her Mother's house, then through the Aust Embassy, and then with Thai Foreign Affairs. Long and complicated process - I did it myself - not recommended.

[Faz]

11 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

In Thailand - all done years ago. Firstly the local ceremony in her Mother's house, then through the Aust Embassy, and then with Thai Foreign Affairs. Long and complicated process - I did it myself - not recommended.

Thanks Bob, then no issues extending your stay based on Thai spouse.

If you'd married overseas it's a far more complex procedure to register a foreign marriage in Thailand in order to extend your stay based on Thai spouse.
https://thethaiger.com/talk/topic/3239-marriage-or-registering-a-foreign-marriage-in-thailand/?tab=comments#comment-25750

 

[AussieBob]

5 minutes ago, Faz said:

Thanks Bob, then no issues extending your stay based on Thai spouse.

If you'd married overseas it's a far more complex procedure to register a foreign marriage in Thailand in order to extend your stay based on Thai spouse.
https://thethaiger.com/talk/topic/3239-marriage-or-registering-a-foreign-marriage-in-thailand/?tab=comments#comment-25750

Thanks @Faz and @BlueSphinx - much appreciated.  

Lets hope the Junta does not decide to make it a condition of long term Married/Working Visas and their annual extensions.