News Forum - Reopening Pattaya: Will it happen next week or not?

[Billy]

17 hours ago, JohninDubin said:

I don't know how NZ makes your list. They had at one time eradicated CV, but then allowed a couple of infected Brits into the country to visit a sick relative, and have not been able to rid themselves of the problem since.

Of the 221 territories listed on worldometers.com, NZ ranks 21st in terms of lowest death rates per capita with just 5 deaths per million.

Your opinion is valid but my opinion is based on the fact that severe lockdowns were implemented to achieve their NZ goal. This destroyed the lives on many individuals, families and also businesses. All this because it seem to be a contest between NZ and Aust on who could keep covid to zero despite the colateral damage.  Dumb.

I am not scared of Covid but joined the experiment and had 2 shots of Pfizer to help us all get our freedom back. I like many people will be extremly pixxed of if the "dumb" do not change their ways of thinking.

[JohninDublin]

6 hours ago, Billy said:

Your opinion is valid but my opinion is based on the fact that severe lockdowns were implemented to achieve their NZ goal. This destroyed the lives on many individuals, families and also businesses. All this because it seem to be a contest between NZ and Aust on who could keep covid to zero despite the colateral damage.  Dumb.

I am not scared of Covid but joined the experiment and had 2 shots of Pfizer to help us all get our freedom back. I like many people will be extremly pixxed of if the "dumb" do not change their ways of thinking.

I live in Ireland, and it is generally accepted that we had amongst the strictest lockdowns in Northern Hemisphere. Same population as NZ. However, there was a chink in our armour to the extent that we were unable to close the Ulster border. Deaths to date: 5208 Ireland. 27 NZ. Infections to date: Ireland 383k. NZ 4k. Active cases: Ireland 42k, NZ 225. Regarding those who have been infected, one in three will suffer Long Covid, so we will be treating 125k for some time to come as they try to fully recover from this. In NZ, this figure will be about 1400. If we presume €5k each, Ireland will need to spend €625 mill. NZ, €7 mill

Talking about "destroying lives", the real destruction of lives are those who are dead. The idea that this has been a peeing contest between NZ and OZ, is also questionable. The OZ figures are far worse that NZ, and if there ever was a peeing comp, between the two countries, OZ must have been well aware that they lost that battle a long time ago.

Business losses?  Most of these businesses will reopen, though some under different ownership. I am sorry that some people will have had their life's work destroyed, but I wonder how many of those business owners lives were saved because they were not open when an infected person might have visited their place of work? Or maybe they avoided the infection that they would have taken home with them to an elderly or immuno-compromised relative and maybe killed them?  And if they had say 10 employees, that risk was magnified by 10X.

I am delighted that you have been vaxxed and are not scared of CV. However, that does not prevent you from being a carrier, and if you were such, what are the chances that you will not come into contact and infect someone in a high risk group? You might want to take a look at this to assess the likelihood of your infecting others: https://covid19.govt.nz/health-and-wellbeing/about-covid-19/people-at-higher-risk-of-severe-illness-from-covid-19/ And even if you don't know someone in any of these groups, that will not stop you from passing it on to someone who does know someone in these groups.

You might regard me as simplistic, but I am of the view that in a Public Health emergency, saving lives and preventing infection is the priority. The economy will recover in due course. Dead people don't. And with that in mind, I'd say NZ has done an outstanding job. But at the end of the day, I do question whether those who doubting the response of NZ, are doing so because so few people died? Wasn't really serious at all was it? We could have afforded to let a lot more people die, couldn't we?

[Bob20]

8 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

I live in Ireland, and it is generally accepted that we had amongst the strictest lockdowns in Northern Hemisphere. Same population as NZ. However, there was a chink in our armour to the extent that we were unable to close the Ulster border. Deaths to date: 5208 Ireland. 27 NZ. Infections to date: Ireland 383k. NZ 4k. Active cases: Ireland 42k, NZ 225. Regarding those who have been infected, one in three will suffer Long Covid, so we will be treating 125k for some time to come as they try to fully recover from this. In NZ, this figure will be about 1400. If we presume €5k each, Ireland will need to spend €625 mill. NZ, €7 mill

Talking about "destroying lives", the real destruction of lives are those who are dead. The idea that this has been a peeing contest between NZ and OZ, is also questionable. The OZ figures are far worse that NZ, and if there ever was a peeing comp, between the two countries, OZ must have been well aware that they lost that battle a long time ago.

Business losses?  Most of these businesses will reopen, though some under different ownership. I am sorry that some people will have had their life's work destroyed, but I wonder how many of those business owners lives were saved because they were not open when an infected person might have visited their place of work? Or maybe they avoided the infection that they would have taken home with them to an elderly or immuno-compromised relative and maybe killed them?  And if they had say 10 employees, that risk was magnified by 10X.

I am delighted that you have been vaxxed and are not scared of CV. However, that does not prevent you from being a carrier, and if you were such, what are the chances that you will not come into contact and infect someone in a high risk group? You might want to take a look at this to assess the likelihood of your infecting others: https://covid19.govt.nz/health-and-wellbeing/about-covid-19/people-at-higher-risk-of-severe-illness-from-covid-19/ And even if you don't know someone in any of these groups, that will not stop you from passing it on to someone who does know someone in these groups.

You might regard me as simplistic, but I am of the view that in a Public Health emergency, saving lives and preventing infection is the priority. The economy will recover in due course. Dead people don't. And with that in mind, I'd say NZ has done an outstanding job. But at the end of the day, I do question whether those who doubting the response of NZ, are doing so because so few people died? Wasn't really serious at all was it? We could have afforded to let a lot more people die, couldn't we?

Unfortunately you are wasting your breath with some. Same as me...

Opening their shop, drinking a beer in the bar or having a weekend break is more important to them than the life of their fellow man/woman.

If only Covid were a little more selective...

[JohninDublin]

14 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

Unfortunately you are wasting your breath with some. Same as me...

Opening their shop, drinking a beer in the bar or having a weekend break is more important to them than the life of their fellow man/woman.

If only Covid were a little more selective...

This really is a case of, "You are part of the solution, or part of the problem"

[Bob20]

10 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

This really is a case of, "You are part of the solution, or part of the problem"

Unfortunately, some argue that for them right now the restrictions are the problem.

That is an incredibly selfish approach.

I wonder how they would have reacted if they were the ones not vaccinated yet, while others insisted to behave in ways that would cause them harm?

What happened to "nobody is safe until everybody is safe"?

Is it now, "I am safe, so sod the rest"?

Then don't be surprised if wave 4 happens!

[JamesE]

6 hours ago, Bob20 said:

What happened to "nobody is safe until everybody is safe"?

"What am I going to feed my kids tomorrow?"

This was supposed to be nailed down by June, 2020. It wasn't, in part, because a large percentage of the global population went all "I ain't wearing no face-diaper" and turned their beliefs into virtue signalling. Now, over a year later, the economic desperation we're seeing everywhere has taken precedence so that people are willing to do whatever it takes to feed their kids tomorrow.

[Bob20]

7 minutes ago, JamesE said:

"What am I going to feed my kids tomorrow?"

This was supposed to be nailed down by June, 2020. It wasn't, in part, because a large percentage of the global population went all "I ain't wearing no face-diaper" and turned their beliefs into virtue signalling. Now, over a year later, the economic desperation we're seeing everywhere has taken precedence so that people are willing to do whatever it takes to feed their kids tomorrow.

I continue to be told by Thais that hunger is not an issue. The happiness cabinets that were necessary last year have gone. The queues for handouts at mealtimes have disappeared. I am absolutely convinced of the economic desperation, but I see shops opening and not having a single customer all day.

What we do see is still a huge number of infections, combined with low protection of the population. Yes, one year later the situation is not much different. Last year we had lockdowns for much less than what we see today!

I am of the opinion that, of the two bad choices, it is the better one to sit this out.

https://thethaiger.com/coronavirus/girls-infected-with-covid-after-mother-dies-at-home-public-criticises-healthcare-system

If this takes a few more months, everyone would regret to have to deal with these situations and will then say "I wish I had chosen differently".