News Forum - Decision on Hua Hin Hospital “dual pricing” case set for next week

[AussieBob]

20 hours ago, Stonker said:

Two problems.

1. He doesn't live long term in Thailand.

2. The TM 30 was never "re-introduced" as it was never removed, and any fining of expats was very brief and very short-lived, and evidently never affected you.

If you prefer Aus, fine, but don't blame Thailand for your making bad decisions.

Please just agree to disagree will you.  Everything you said above is your opinion on things and I could very easily shoot them down, but I cannot be bothered - I can have a more reasonable (and non insulting) debate with an anti-vaxxer. 

[AussieBob]

19 hours ago, Stonker said:

What else do you think he should have said that wouldn't have made him  "an arrogant xenophobic ahole" in your view?

He was a serving police officer whose job was to uphold the law, not to pass comment on it or ignore it.

Had he made any other comment in a similar position in Aus he would, quite rightly, have found himself out of a job - but because he's Thai, saying it in Thailand, that makes him "an arrogant xenophobic ahole".

No bias there .....

Did you see it? Obviously not. I did.

I disagree with you - and based on the replies and messages so do the majority.  Closed.

[AussieBob]

16 hours ago, Soidog said:

Thanks for the feedback @AussieBob  I recall the changes to the TM30 reporting. It was nothing more than a rounding up of expats and a way to make them feel uncomfortable. While I don’t blame you in migrating to Australia, the sad truth is that this is exactly what they wanted. ( not just you Bob ) Put simply, the only foreigners they want in Thailand are two week holiday makers spending as much money as possible and a very small selection of experts to teach their kids and manage their football teams! Unfortunately this won’t change anytime soon and the “battle” to simply reside and spend your monthly income without being any drain on local resources will continue. 
 

Ive no doubt these comments will attract the usual BS from people claiming this is no different to places like the U.K. U.S or Australia, but the situations are totally incomparable. While the hoops you need to jump through maybe just as plentiful to enter western countries, the rewards and the way you can be a more integral part of society are much higher. There are also countless options to stay for longer periods for example in the U.K. from 6 months to 2.5 years. Numerous ways to enter and study or work in the U.K. doing normal jobs and not limited to a very small number of jobs. I could go on at length highlighting the very obvious difference in ATTITUDES and hence POLICIES  towards foreigners living and working in the U.K. compared to Thailand.  

It’s reasonable to say that if you want to get married to a Thai national and have a reasonable income (65,000 baht/month) and be prepared to have the 90 day shake down and annual checks, then you can live in Thailand relatively easily. Though remember this. People often call it a “marriage visa”. It’s not a marriage visa. You are being allowed to extend your stay from your Non-O visa on the grounds of marriage.  You must be married and prove you are married. The equivalent route in the U.K. is referred to as the “Family visa” (a proper visa) and specifically includes “partners” with options to include children of those involved. No such open minded option is available in Thailand. Although some of the qualifications to get long term visas such as a family visa are not without hoops to go through, this because as I’ve mentioned already,  having gained one, you have so many normal and inclusive rights. After 5 years on such a visa you can apply for permanent residency. On a Thai Non-O extension to stay based on marriage, all it allows you to do is stay. If you and your wife have a small shop )your wife owns it not you), you could be in trouble simply for helping move a few boxes (that’s working!).

Also bear in mind that should your Thai spouse die before you do, perhaps having lived together for 30 years, you can not extend your visa based on marriage. Your best hope is to extend on the basis of retirement. So if you have used the 400,000 baht route to stay, you’ll suddenly need to find another 400,000 (Now there’s compassion for you!)

Like I say, I could write a 200 page document on the difference, but any level headed and fair minded person will already know what I’m talking about. 
 

Oh, and finally, to loop back to the main thread. If you are on a U.K. family visa you won’t have to pay more in hospital and you won’t have to pay more for your trip to a museum, national park, car hire, food, drink, clothes, house rent, etc etc etc …….

You are very correct - both in what you said about the issue, and that it would attract the usual BS responses.  Some Expats have a bee in their bonnet about this issue as they somehow see it as insulting Thailand and Thais, and like all emotionally upset people (you and me included when we do) they cannot see the reality and logic, dispassionately and free from their feelings. 

Only 200 pages? I could put together an entire legal argument document that would double that . But I figure the only way forward is to close the matter, so I will close it off here rather than end up like that anti-vaxxer post that seems to be going forever.  Those things you mentioned about what a Thai gets when they move to live in another country, are only the tip of the iceberg here in Australia.  My Thai wife gets everything than any Australian is entitled to get/receive, and all at the same prices.  When compared to what I get in Thailand, and how much more I contribute to the Thai economy, it is ridiculous to hear anyone say that Thailand is not unfair in how it treats long term residents from overseas.

By the way - if my Thai wife died while we are living in Thailand, then I would no longer live in Thailand. The main reason I am not looking at living in one of those other countries I mentioned before who offer far more benefits and rights and privileges (especially Singapore, Indonesia or Taiwan), is because I am married to a Thai and I wouldn't leave her for the world. 

I re-did the calculations again about those mandatory health insurance requirements for an O-A Visa. If I stayed in Thailand for 15 years on one of those policies, it would cost me $2.3 Million Baht. I have costed the annual premiums based on an annual increase of 10% over current prices - but I reckon once I hit 75 it will probably go up a lot more than that. All that expense for an insurance policy that has a maximum single event payout of 100K Baht. The wife has made it very clear that if they make that insurance scam/deal compulsory for all annual extensions for retirement or marriage, then unless the premiums are far lower, we are not going to stay in Thailand. She said she can buy a house for that amount of money, and other less than nice comments about the Junta.  That issue and the other reasons that you and I have mentioned, and many others we could use to fill out to over 200 pages, is why we are never going to buy a house in Thailand - it is easy to up and move when renting.

[Soidog]

49 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

I re-did the calculations again about those mandatory health insurance requirements for an O-A Visa. If I stayed in Thailand for 15 years on one of those policies, it would cost me $2.3 Million Baht.

You raise an interesting point here @AussieBob. I know many people who are on Non-O visas and extend their stay on the basis  of retirement. They are concerned that the health insurance requirements on the Non-O-A could be applied to the Non-O. If it was, and I have no knowledge of if it’s likely or possible, it would be devastating for many people who have spent many years in Thailand. What I would say is that in recent years I have heard many more expats talking of “under the counter” payments to visa agents rather than keep the 400k-800k in their banks and have concerns over the changes that could happen to the Non-O. If that was to happen, I doubt they would only apply it to new holders of the visa? A real concern for many expats it seems.

To your wider point regarding the benefits or not between the two countries, all I can say is that I obviously agree. I know one or two members will argue with themselves in an empty house and fail to acknowledge the wider issues being discussed. They are simply in denial that there is any significant downside of living as an expat in Thailand compared to a Thai National living in Australia or another Western country.  You clearly have direct first hand knowledge and experience of the reality, while others simply point to internet pages that in the real world bear little to no reality on the ground. It’s often not about the laws once you are in the country. It comes down to the attitudes and compassion of local authorities and the people. We all get a regular taste of the compassion of immigration authorities in Thailand every time you do 90 day reporting. I regularly see men in their very late years sitting clutching their ticket, waiting their turn to go to the desk and make their case for what they have done time and time again. For some, the journey alone through heavy traffic and waiting, only to be told they need yet another photocopy or document is utterly repugnant. This doesn’t happen everywhere and I have seen genuine care towards some elderly people. But it’s not enough for a process that is unnecessary and at the least should be more accessible. 
 

For now @AussieBob, I will do as you have said and draw a line under this debate. I doubt our words will change the view of the hardened few. Only direct and first hand problems will change their outlook. I hope for their sake it’s not too big a shock when it does happen. It also demonstrates why expats will never form a collaborative alliance to work to constructively lobby for change for the benefit of us all. 

[Stonker]

On 9/29/2021 at 6:22 AM, AussieBob said:

Lets agree to disagree on all that. 

It's not possible to agree or disagree on facts - opinions, yes, and we're all entitled to those, but not to our own facts.

Fact 1. You claimed that "Race and Ethnicity is definitely what 'Nationality' a person is - that is where they are from and what type of people they are."  That's your opinion, but it's completely wrong as a point of fact since "race and ethnicity" has nothing to do with nationality which has a strict legal definition, defined by Article 15 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights,  and by the Nottebohm Case at the International Court of Justice that stated that "nationality is a legal bond having as its basis a social fact of attachment, a genuine connection of existence, interest and sentiments, together with the existence of reciprocal rights and duties." These and more are laid down by the UN as "Rule of Law".

Those are facts - not opinion.

Fact 2. You claimed that "If he does not [win the case]- then maybe I will submit a proposal to the Australian Fed Govt that all people from Thailand should be charged a higher fee for any Govt medical services that they are provided - fair's fair and all that? " so I pointed out that this was already the case giving a definitive and very clear link to a Gov.AU site that confirms that beyond any possible doubt.

What you stated and claimed was simply wrong as a question of fact, not opinion.

Grow up and accept that your bigoted opinions are factually incorrect instead of living a life in denial.

[Stonker]

4 hours ago, AussieBob said:

 Everything you said above is your opinion on things and I could very easily shoot them down, but I cannot be bothered - I can have a more reasonable (and non insulting) debate with an anti-vaxxer. 

No, everything I've said above, as before, are easily verifiable facts supported by direct links to government sources (British, Australian or Thai).

Everything.

It isn't that you "can't be bothered" - if you and @Soidog are so delusional that you think all the government sources given are wrong or the laws and regulations don't apply "on the ground" then maybe it's time you both had a look at yourselves and the unverified and unsupported nonsense you're both posting, justifying not "shooting it down" because you "can't be bothered" or because I'm not being "reasonable".

That's not a "reasonable debate" but simply blinkered ignorance.

[AussieBob]

On 9/30/2021 at 9:58 AM, Soidog said:

You raise an interesting point here @AussieBob. I know many people who are on Non-O visas and extend their stay on the basis  of retirement. They are concerned that the health insurance requirements on the Non-O-A could be applied to the Non-O. If it was, and I have no knowledge of if it’s likely or possible, it would be devastating for many people who have spent many years in Thailand. What I would say is that in recent years I have heard many more expats talking of “under the counter” payments to visa agents rather than keep the 400k-800k in their banks and have concerns over the changes that could happen to the Non-O. If that was to happen, I doubt they would only apply it to new holders of the visa? A real concern for many expats it seems.

To your wider point regarding the benefits or not between the two countries, all I can say is that I obviously agree. I know one or two members will argue with themselves in an empty house and fail to acknowledge the wider issues being discussed. They are simply in denial that there is any significant downside of living as an expat in Thailand compared to a Thai National living in Australia or another Western country.  You clearly have direct first hand knowledge and experience of the reality, while others simply point to internet pages that in the real world bear little to no reality on the ground. It’s often not about the laws once you are in the country. It comes down to the attitudes and compassion of local authorities and the people. We all get a regular taste of the compassion of immigration authorities in Thailand every time you do 90 day reporting. I regularly see men in their very late years sitting clutching their ticket, waiting their turn to go to the desk and make their case for what they have done time and time again. For some, the journey alone through heavy traffic and waiting, only to be told they need yet another photocopy or document is utterly repugnant. This doesn’t happen everywhere and I have seen genuine care towards some elderly people. But it’s not enough for a process that is unnecessary and at the least should be more accessible. 
 

For now @AussieBob, I will do as you have said and draw a line under this debate. I doubt our words will change the view of the hardened few. Only direct and first hand problems will change their outlook. I hope for their sake it’s not too big a shock when it does happen. It also demonstrates why expats will never form a collaborative alliance to work to constructively lobby for change for the benefit of us all. 

Thanks Mate - and that will be the end of this discussion for us both.

[billywillyjones]

Why not have TAT issue some double pricing discount coupons?  Problem solved.