News Forum - Doctors say cardiac arrest caused death of man given AstraZeneca booster shot

[9S_]

15 minutes ago, Stonker said:

I think we've been through this before, so given that your question has zero relevance to the point I've made, which you've quoted, maybe you should try wasting someone else's time instead.

Oh really so your false equivalence carries more weight? Surely there are numerous long term studies that proves the safety of recurring tetanus shots or flu shots!

By all means go ahead and take your 4th and 6th shot and make sure you mix and match the vaccines too

Do you have the long term studies for Covid Jabs?

I’m waiting

Edited September 20, 2021 by 9S_
Context

[Zool]

3 hours ago, Stonker said:

Many seem to forget that tetanus needs five initial jabs before the ten yearly booster ... or that the flu jab is annual ...

Many seem to forget that there has never been a successful vaccine for a coronavirus. Not sure I'd be lining up for these experimental ones. 

[Andrew Reeve]

@Stonker, @9S_

Please read forum etiquette

We encourage and love debate but be courteous even when disagreement may be vigorous!

 

The forum values and welcomes diverse opinions. So, it is likely you will come across opinions you do not agree with! It is fine to disagree with and challenge opinions, ideas, and facts. Attacking another member because their opinion differs, is not.

 

[stuhan]

7 hours ago, Stonker said:

Sinopharm does have to be paid for and is not "free", as in provided and paid for by the government, unless the government has bought some recently, but it's frequently "free" to the recipient as it's paid for by various Chambers of Commerce, Thai industry and assorted charities.

Yes all the vaccines were free with the Maharat hospital korat for Thai's and foreigners under their registration process.

[stuhan]

9 hours ago, Bob20 said:

The staff here is Thai and they're not reading Thaiger. And I havent been looking for SinoPharm

But point taken

The Thai's registered with Maharat hospital directly from the f.b page which is in Thai.

[MrStretch]

8 hours ago, 9S_ said:

Do you have the long term studies stating that multiple jabs or mixing multiple jabs is safe?

Do you have long-term studies that show the vaccination, multiple jabs or mixing multiple jabs is unsafe?

Do you have any long-term studies that show that any vaccination is unsafe?

5 hours ago, atiger said:

or the vaccine caused a blood clot blocking his artery!

At the risk of repeating myself, unless they prove it was caused by the vaccine, it's just a coincidence.

9 hours ago, Stonker said:

Sinopharm does have to be paid for and is not "free", as in provided and paid for by the government, unless the government has bought some recently, but it's frequently "free" to the recipient as it's paid for by various Chambers of Commerce, Thai industry and assorted charities.

None of us believe that they are "free" in that sense.  How stupid do you think we are? 

"Free" is in 'the cost to the recipient', not 'by the goodness of the vaccine provider'.  If that were the definition, only the donated Pfizer and AZ would be free...everything else has been paid for.

 

[Stonker]

7 hours ago, Zool said:

Many seem to forget that there has never been a successful vaccine for a coronavirus. Not sure I'd be lining up for these experimental ones. 

That's simply not correct.

None of the WHO approved Covid jabs are "experimental" as that stage (Ph3 trials) has long passed, and apart from the likes of Sinovac, the effectiveness of other vaccines such as AZ is on a par with many other widely accepted vaccines and the best (Pfizer, Moderna, etc) are on a par with the top tier of other vaccines.

All of that is very easily verifiable from all accepted and well-established sources.

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, MrStretch said:

None of us believe that they are "free" in that sense. 

Neither of us is any position to say what "none of us believe", but clearly there was / is considerable confusion over the source of some vaccines on the part of some forum members which others have added to, whether unwittingly or not.

While my comment may have been superfluous to you, it may have clarified the position for others.

1 hour ago, MrStretch said:

How stupid do you think we are?

Given @Andrew Reeve's recent post, it's probably better if I don't answer that.

[Zool]

1 hour ago, Stonker said:

That's simply not correct.

None of the WHO approved Covid jabs are "experimental" as that stage (Ph3 trials) has long passed, and apart from the likes of Sinovac, the effectiveness of other vaccines such as AZ is on a par with many other widely accepted vaccines and the best (Pfizer, Moderna, etc) are on a par with the top tier of other vaccines.

All of that is very easily verifiable from all accepted and well-established sources.

Yes it is experimental. It's approved for emergency use only as it hasn't been tested fully. The current jab recipients are the guinea pigs.

[Stonker]

5 minutes ago, Zool said:

Yes it is experimental. It's approved for emergency use only as it hasn't been tested fully. The current jab recipients are the guinea pigs.

Simply untrue.

"Experimental" drugs are those under Ph3 tests, not EUA.

All EUA vaccines have passed those tests months ago, and Pfizer has had full FDA approval.

You're entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts and what you're claiming is simply untrue.

[Zool]

1 minute ago, Stonker said:

Simply untrue.

"Experimental" drugs are those under Ph3 tests, not EUA.

All EUA vaccines have passed those tests months ago, and Pfizer has had full FDA approval.

You're entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts and what you're claiming is simply untrue.

Semantics. The Pfizer shot that has full FDA approval is not even being administered. You can say what you like but due diligence was not carried out on these experimental vaccines. Nobody knows the long term effects. We are learning the short term effects though, they are useless after about 5 months. Enjoy your booster shots for life!

[Stonker]

41 minutes ago, Zool said:

Semantics. The Pfizer shot that has full FDA approval is not even being administered. You can say what you like but due diligence was not carried out on these experimental vaccines. Nobody knows the long term effects. We are learning the short term effects though, they are useless after about 5 months. Enjoy your booster shots for life!

Totally untrue, but there's clearly little point in trying to explain the difference between a fact and uninformed opinion to you.

As for "useless after about five months" the two most recent studies, peer reviewed including by NHE, state very clearly that both Moderna and Pfizer have over 90% efficacy against hospitalization and death after six months.

If you don't want to be vaccinated, fine, or back up what you say with some scientific evidence, but simply repeating  things which are patently untrue does everyone a dis-service, and just makes anti-vaxxers look like a bunch of uninformed nut-jobs while it's possible they may have some valid points.

[Zool]

1 hour ago, Stonker said:

Totally untrue, but there's clearly little point in trying to explain the difference between a fact and uninformed opinion to you.

As for "useless after about five months" the two most recent studies, peer reviewed including by NHE, state very clearly that both Moderna and Pfizer have over 90% efficacy against hospitalization and death after six months.

If you don't want to be vaccinated, fine, or back up what you say with some scientific evidence, but simply repeating  things which are patently untrue does everyone a dis-service, and just makes anti-vaxxers look like a bunch of uninformed nut-jobs while it's possible they may have some valid points.

Have a look at Israel. Not very effective there. 

[Stonker]

57 minutes ago, Zool said:

Have a look at Israel. 

Maybe you should.

1 hour ago, Zool said:

Not very effective there. 

The unvaccinated 17% of the adult population make up half the serious cases and two thirds of the deaths.

Those with a booster have eleven times the protection from serious infection and nearly twenty times the protection from death as those with only two doses.

That's pretty "effective", albeit far from perfect.

Meanwhile progress with "experimental " vaccines such as GRT-R-910 suggests that second generation mRNA vaccines will need less or no booster shots.

If you want to wait, up to you.

[Zool]

1 hour ago, Stonker said:

Maybe you should.

The unvaccinated 17% of the adult population make up half the serious cases and two thirds of the deaths.

Those with a booster have eleven times the protection from serious infection and nearly twenty times the protection from death as those with only two doses.

That's pretty "effective", albeit far from perfect.

Meanwhile progress with "experimental " vaccines such as GRT-R-910 suggests that second generation mRNA vaccines will need less or no booster shots.

If you want to wait, up to you.

Well I didn't know that, and if true, this is promising, but I remain very pessimistic about the long term effects, namely it is the possible ADE that is the most dangerous.

As I stated earlier, there has never been an effective vaccine for a coronavirus, the biggest reason being the many mutations, so even if there is a new vaccine that is effective, it doesn't bode well for the long term. Short-term, possibly OK, long term, possibly lethal.

[Stonker]

2 hours ago, Zool said:

Well I didn't know that, and if true, this is promising, but I remain very pessimistic about the long term effects, namely it is the possible ADE that is the most dangerous.

As I stated earlier, there has never been an effective vaccine for a coronavirus, the biggest reason being the many mutations, so even if there is a new vaccine that is effective, it doesn't bode well for the long term. Short-term, possibly OK, long term, possibly lethal.

Well, at least we can talk about it rationally which makes a change here!

You can get the stats on Israel from Haaretz, and the GRT-R-910's being developed in the UK and is just starting trials.

I think the problem with the Covid vaccines is simply that most people either expected too much or thought corners were cut when neither is really fair.

The vaccines are no better and no worse for efficacy than most other vaccines, not just for coronaviruses but for anything, but because they were told vaccines were the answer people were expecting a one-shot sterile immunity miracle and there aren't any like that for anything.

On the other hand, because of the speed people assumed that corners had to have been cut while they weren't and all the normal and necessary tests were carried as for any other vaccine - calling it "Operation Warp Speed" has probably put more people off than all the anti-vaxxers combined !

[Zool]

3 hours ago, Stonker said:

snip...

The vaccines are no better and no worse for efficacy than most other vaccines, not just for coronaviruses but for anything, but because they were told vaccines were the answer people were expecting a one-shot sterile immunity miracle and there aren't any like that for anything.

...snip

Yes, and they were not wrong to expect it because they were not told different. They didn't receive informed consent.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Zool

[Stonker]

2 hours ago, Zool said:

Yes, and they were not wrong to expect it because they were not told different.

If you think any of the manufacturers or scientific advisers suggested or hinted that sterile immunity was a possibility then I'd be interested to see it - the efficacy rates have all been very widely reported.

 

2 hours ago, Zool said:

They didn't receive informed consent.

I'm not sure what you're talking about here, and I doubt you are as this is very clearly untrue.

Who "didn't receive informed consent"?

From who?

Where?

Everyone here, for example, has given written / signed informed consent before being vaccinated (or if under age their parents have given it), as has everyone taking part in trials.

[Zool]

8 minutes ago, Stonker said:

If you think any of the manufacturers or scientific advisers suggested or hinted that sterile immunity was a possibility then I'd be interested to see it - the efficacy rates have all been very widely reported.

I'm not sure what you're talking about here, and I doubt you are as this is very clearly untrue.

Who "didn't receive informed consent"?

From who?

Where?

Everyone here, for example, has given written / signed informed consent before being vaccinated (or if under age their parents have given it), as has everyone taking part in trials.

I mean they weren't told that it isn't a sterilizing vaccine. They weren't given the details of the very serious side-effects, including death.

[Stonker]

49 minutes ago, Zool said:

I mean they weren't told that it isn't a sterilizing vaccine. They weren't given the details of the very serious side-effects, including death.

Who are you talking about "they weren't told", etc?

Who?

Where?

By who?

Before being vaccinated here, and in every country I'm aware of, EVERYONE has to sign that they're giving informed consent and that they've been told the efficacy and the comparative risks.

[Zool]

2 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Who are you talking about "they weren't told", etc?

Who?

Where?

By who?

Before being vaccinated here, and in every country I'm aware of, EVERYONE has to sign that they're giving informed consent and that they've been told the efficacy and the comparative risks.

It's not true. I've seen lots of reports from various sources saying they weren't given informed consent. The UK, US etc. I've seen tons of disgruntled people on Twitter who are very pissed off because they've been fully vaccinated and yet they got covid. They are saying that they had no idea the vaccine wouldn't stop them from getting covid. All you have to do is look for these posts and you will find them. I've also seen lost of people with serious harm from the vaccines, saying they "never would have gotten it if they knew this would happen" etc. Many many people.

[Benroon]

18 hours ago, Stonker said:

That's simply not correct.

None of the WHO approved Covid jabs are "experimental" as that stage (Ph3 trials) has long passed, and apart from the likes of Sinovac, the effectiveness of other vaccines such as AZ is on a par with many other widely accepted vaccines and the best (Pfizer, Moderna, etc) are on a par with the top tier of other vaccines.

All of that is very easily verifiable from all accepted and well-established sources.

Correct - also once the MHRA give approval, any claim the vaccines are ‘experimental’ are false. Research has various stages, the first is called ‘initial’ during this time the vaccine is experimental. Once it moves out of ‘initial’ it is no longer ‘experimental’. No vaccine was administered during the initial stages or prior to approval. 

However the conspiracy theorists aren’t going to let that word go in a hurry however incorrect they are. 

However here we are with yet another thread to feed them - getting beyond tedious now. It use to be fun on here. 

 

[Benroon]

On 9/20/2021 at 11:52 AM, billywillyjones said:

The fact you didn't see any should have raised the question "why am I getting this experimental vaccine there are no covid victims to be seen anywhere".

Apart from the 4.5 million dead you mean ? 

[Benroon]

On 9/20/2021 at 5:00 PM, 9S_ said:

Do you have the long term studies stating that multiple jabs or mixing multiple jabs is safe?

Do you have any studies saying the regulatory bodies that approved the vaccines are mistaken  ? 

Or are a few million more dead worth delaying an APPROVED vaccine to tick a few more boxes ? 

 

[Stonker]

59 minutes ago, Zool said:

I've seen lots of reports from various sources saying they weren't given informed consent

You can't be "given informed consent"!

No-one can give it TO you - informed consent is what YOU give before you get vaccinated, to say that you're informed and that you're giving your consent.

59 minutes ago, Zool said:

It's not true. I've seen lots of reports from various sources saying they weren't given informed consent. The UK, US etc. I've seen tons of disgruntled people on Twitter who are very pissed off because they've been fully vaccinated and yet they got covid. They are saying that they had no idea the vaccine wouldn't stop them from getting covid. All you have to do is look for these posts and you will find them. I've also seen lost of people with serious harm from the vaccines, saying they "never would have gotten it if they knew this would happen" etc. Many many people.

Covid and covid vaccines have had way, way more written and published about them than any other virus, illness, vaccine or treatment.  More, readily available, constantly, in the mass media, social media and across the internet, in the news and anywhere else you can think of than anything else in the last two years from Brexit, to the US and national elections, to Afghanistan and space tourism.  More, for longer and in more detail, than 9/11 and the fall of the Berlin Wall.

You'd have to have been living in radio silence on the dark side of the moon not to know about it and not to be able to learn anything you wanted to learn.

If "many, many people" are saying they're "pissed off" because they "didn't know", whose fault is that? 

How can governments or anyone else be at fault because so "many, many people" are lazy, disinterested or just plain stupid but they still say they're "informed"?

What more can governments, vaccine manufacturers, or anyone else do to make sure people are better informed, short of having an exam before you get vaccinated?

WHAT ???