Covidiots, anti maskers, anti vaxxers, anti passport, conspiracy believers fighting the police and spread it.

[dmacarelli]

As there is nothing in the way of clinical studies of the adverse effects, and we have no idea who those people are, what they suffered from, or any other data. What we do know is that the anti-vax movement is using stats such as these, to create fear, and discourage society from being reasonable, and doing what it can to prevent further spread. 

Let's deal with facts for a moment. We do know that over 5 billion have received at least one dose worldwide, and well over 2 billion have been fully vaccinated, according to multiple sources. If you take a body of 2 billion people, 1.5 million or one tenth of one percent, are going to get sick from something every year. Was it the vaccine? Do we know? Will we ever know? 

The 15,000 deaths are far less interesting, as they represent less deaths than would normally occur, from such a huge population group. In 2015, 55 million people died of something worldwide. That is about 4.6 million people per month. So, the 15,000 means less than zero, within a group that huge, lacking any clinical evidence.

I am far more interested in science, than I am in fear mongering. And even though I am not a VAX guy, I feel at this time, getting a high quality vaccine represents a reasonable fulfillment of an obligation to society, and a minor sacrifice for anti-vax people to make. Doubly so for the ones who run around draping themselves in a flag of patriotism. 

If a kindergartner is courageous enough to take a vaccine before starting school, what does that make the adults who refuse, and are afraid to do so?

[Chaimai]

29 minutes ago, dmacarelli said:

As there is nothing in the way of clinical studies of the adverse effects, and we have no idea who those people are, what they suffered from, or any other data. What we do know is that the anti-vax movement is using stats such as these, to create fear, and discourage society from being reasonable, and doing what it can to prevent further spread. 

Let's deal with facts for a moment. We do know that over 5 billion have received at least one dose worldwide, and well over 2 billion have been fully vaccinated, according to multiple sources. If you take a body of 2 billion people, 1.5 million or one tenth of one percent, are going to get sick from something every year. Was it the vaccine? Do we know? Will we ever know? 

The 15,000 deaths are far less interesting, as they represent less deaths than would normally occur, from such a huge population group. In 2015, 55 million people died of something worldwide. That is about 4.6 million people per month. So, the 15,000 means less than zero, within a group that huge, lacking any clinical evidence.

I am far more interested in science, than I am in fear mongering. And even though I am not a VAX guy, I feel at this time, getting a high quality vaccine represents a reasonable fulfillment of an obligation to society, and a minor sacrifice for anti-vax people to make. Doubly so for the ones who run around draping themselves in a flag of patriotism. 

If a kindergartner is courageous enough to take a vaccine before starting school, what does that make the adults who refuse, and are afraid to do so?

 

I am not in tune with all of your posts but that was an extremely well-balanced contribution. Thank you.

[BlueSphinx]

16 minutes ago, dmacarelli said:

As there is nothing in the way of clinical studies of the adverse effects, and we have no idea who those people are, what they suffered from, or any other data. What we do know is that the anti-vax movement is using stats such as these, to create fear, and discourage society from being reasonable, and doing what it can to prevent further spread. 

Let's deal with facts for a moment. We do know that over 5 billion have received at least one dose worldwide, and well over 2 billion have been fully vaccinated, according to multiple sources. If you take a body of 2 billion people, 1.5 million or one tenth of one percent, are going to get sick from something every year. Was it the vaccine? Do we know? Will we ever know? 

The 15,000 deaths are far less interesting, as they represent less deaths than would normally occur, from such a huge population group. In 2015, 55 million people died of something worldwide. That is about 4.6 million people per month. So, the 15,000 means less than zero, within a group that huge, lacking any clinical evidence.

I am far more interested in science, than I am in fear mongering. And even though I am not a VAX guy, I feel at this time, getting a high quality vaccine represents a reasonable fulfillment of an obligation to society, and a minor sacrifice for anti-vax people to make. Doubly so for the ones who run around draping themselves in a flag of patriotism. 

If a kindergartner is courageous enough to take a vaccine before starting school, what does that make the adults who refuse, and are afraid to do so?

I presume that the 15.000 deaths you are referring to are the alleged covid-vaccine related deaths as reported on the US VAERS system.  And then you suddenly switch to worldwide population figures to 'prove' that these 15.000 US deaths are nothing more than a drop in the ocean.

I cannot take such muddled thinking seriously, as it is nothing more than an unsubstantiated word-salad.  The rant once again ends with you referring to your favorite courageous 'kindergartner' that puts to shame all those 'too afraid to take the jab'.  But brave enough to face covid, it seems...  

[Faraday]

A "courageous kindergartener"....!

When I had the Polio vaccine, I had it because my Dad said I needed it. I had no idea of any risk & didn't understand what a side-effect was.

Really, the pro vs con arguments are tedious. I am not against vaccines, just very sceptical of the way this whole Covid thing, has been handled.

There's no need to pull apart what I've written, my opinions are mostly congruent with what has been posted on here.

For the record, I don't deny that Covid exists, whatever it is.

[Hamosity]

19 hours ago, Faraday said:

A "courageous kindergartener"....!

When I had the Polio vaccine, I had it because my Dad said I needed it. I had no idea of any risk & didn't understand what a side-effect was.

Really, the pro vs con arguments are tedious. I am not against vaccines, just very sceptical of the way this whole Covid thing, has been handled.

There's no need to pull apart what I've written, my opinions are mostly congruent with what has been posted on here.

For the record, I don't deny that Covid exists, whatever it is.

Same for me re the Polio vaccine.  I was <10 and like everyone at that age bullet proof  (so what would  a little red sweet drink do to me).  I had no idea what herd immunity was and I'd never heard of an iron lung.  Other's not so lucky.

https://alcalde.texasexes.org/2020/09/one-of-the-last-people-to-live-in-an-iron-lung-is-a-longhorn/

Was I or my parents naïve?  Possibly, but in them thar days "doing my own research" meant studying something to arrive at a defensible position that increases mankind's body of knowledge, using primary data and peer-reviewed resources.  And we had trust in those that did.

I agree with @dmacarelligetting  vaccinated is a reasonable expectation of society as a whole.  Don't want to take it, in most places you have the right to that "freedom", just like an employer has the right not to hire you or the bar/theatre owner has the right not to provide you entry.

Just my opinion; dig into it as you like....

[billywillyjones]

On 9/21/2021 at 1:15 PM, Chaimai said:

You make it sound like the FDA are against vaccination  -  which they are not.

The FDA concluded that "for most people" the existing vaccination programme provided adequate protection against the worst effects of Covid..

Constantly evaluating is what good administrators do.

In the UK the administrators feel differently:-

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58550833

Once again twisting facts.  I never said the FDA are against vaccination.  Read the post.

[Del_SoL]

After director of Phizer openly said in interview: Israel is our testing laboratory.... 

(By the way he not vaccinated). I don't need no any explanation what's going on.

 Doctor Josef "Todesengel" Mengele is back. And your children are coming "experimental" guinea pigs next. Why your wonder?

 

 

[dmacarelli]

On 9/22/2021 at 10:36 AM, Hamosity said:

Same for me re the Polio vaccine.  I was <10 and like everyone at that age bullet proof  (so what would  a little red sweet drink do to me).  I had no idea what herd immunity was and I'd never heard of an iron lung.  Other's not so lucky.

https://alcalde.texasexes.org/2020/09/one-of-the-last-people-to-live-in-an-iron-lung-is-a-longhorn/

Was I or my parents naïve?  Possibly, but in them thar days "doing my own research" meant studying something to arrive at a defensible position that increases mankind's body of knowledge, using primary data and peer-reviewed resources.  And we had trust in those that did.

I agree with @dmacarelligetting  vaccinated is a reasonable expectation of society as a whole.  Don't want to take it, in most places you have the right to that "freedom", just like an employer has the right not to hire you or the bar/theatre owner has the right not to provide you entry.

Just my opinion; dig into it as you like....

I did not want to take it either. But, as you said, it was a reasonable thing to do, I did it, and I am glad I did it.