Debunk This Please

[JohninDublin]

On 9/18/2021 at 5:57 AM, noosard said:

It is from a looney paper with funny numbers

https://theexpose.uk/2021/09/16/8-times-as-many-died-due-to-covid-vaccines-than-people-who-died-of-covid-19/

"IT’S OFFICIAL – Official data shows 8 times as many people have died due to the Covid Vaccines in 6 months than people who have died of Covid-19 in 18 months"

"BY DAILY EXPOSE ON SEPTEMBER 16, 2021 • ( 5 COMMENTS )"

 

This is the quality of their articles

Fudged numbers

A point well made. If that were true, that would mean 1 mill plus deaths due to the Vax. Call me gullible but I have a strange feeling that if that were true, the media might have packed up on this by now.

In a reply to the this thread further down, I gave valid reasons why this might be true but was far from relevant due to the lack of data. Now that I've seen your post, I think that in itself is sufficient to debunk this piece.

During the meantime I say "Shame on those who present such stories without even an iota of effort to verify the credibility of such rubbish".

[Konk]

I found a complete "debunk" on the fact-checking company "Logically", they claimed only 4700 people died which was so far from the number that I took half an hour and researched it myself.
Logically.ai is a UK company for fact-checking, the person doing the "fact check" has failed reading a simple table. 

Here is the ONS data: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/deathsinvolvingcovid19byvaccinationstatusengland/deathsoccurringbetween2januaryand2july2021
Here is the wrong fact-check: https://www.logically.ai/factchecks/library/656e511f

Here is the truth:
The number of UK people who died within 21 days after the first or second shot is 30.305

So the claim that 30305 people died shortly after the covid mRNA therapy is true.

To know how many people died FROM the covid treatment we'd have to remove those who died from natural causes shortly after the shot, given that unhealthy people would be excluded from a shot it should not be a huge number.

In total about 48 million UK people have received a shot, 30300 died shortly after, that's a 1:1580 ratio which is surprisingly high, though it needs a correction for natural causes.
 

 

[MrStretch]

7 hours ago, Konk said:

given that unhealthy people would be excluded from a shot it should not be a huge number.

Don't know how true that is.  People with underlying conditions like high BMI or diabetes, cardiovascular diseases, etc. were the ones encouraged, beyond all others, to be vaccinated as they were at higher risk of severe Covid symptoms.

[Smithydog]

7 hours ago, Konk said:

I found a complete "debunk" on the fact-checking company "Logically", they claimed only 4700 people died which was so far from the number that I took half an hour and researched it myself.
Logically.ai is a UK company for fact-checking, the person doing the "fact check" has failed reading a simple table. 
 

Here is the table from ONS, so all can choose what they like:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsbyvaccinationstatusengland

To me, from that data, one has chosen to quote "deaths involving Covid-19" and added those numbers to "Non Covid-19 deaths" to back up their case. Add the 3 numbers under each column for "Deaths within 21 days" and you will see that 4,388 +14,265 + 182 + 11,470 equals 30,305 as mentioned in the "Expose" article.

Equally using just the Covid-19 deaths you will see by adding 4,388 and 182 together equals 4,570 which is the actual figure cited in the "Fact Checker's" argument.

So which is correct. To me neither. Both numbers do not demonstrate the intention of the writer of the original article. In my view, the "newspaper's" intention is to deliver a "sensationalist" feeling that vaccines themselves are causing death or do not prevent death from Covid-19. Nothing more. Otherwise, why would you highlight vaccination status when looking at deaths? 

The above table from ONS shows the death data. Read it as you choose. But, in my opinion, you would need to further look at the Monthly Mortality Analysis to understand deaths from the vaccines. (Note - This report is a rolling 6 month period so the data is actually March to August 2021. There are archived copies of other months.)

Here is a table from the latest completed report that seems to show deaths caused by vaccines (Code U12.9) . Perhaps one of the members who is a Doctor can better explain how the coding works etc than me.

Draw your own conclusions.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/monthlymortalityanalysisenglandandwales

[Jin]

Read this fact check:
https://www.logically.ai/factchecks/library/656e511f

Edited September 28, 2021 by Jin

[Freeduhdumb]

 

On 9/19/2021 at 1:04 AM, Americanbob said:

Well, I don't think anyone has successfully debunked the OP?

About impossible to know if the numbers are correct, near-correct, wildly incorrect.

It appears:

• Some places don't count it as a CV19 death until after a certain amount of time has elapsed after the jab.. 7 days, 14 days, 21 days?

I made a long list, but in essence, without a consistent, standardized and unbiased method of reporting cause of death then.. shrug... Also, the first 6 months of 2021 was probably the time the most elderly (with most co-morbidity) were getting vaxxed, for all we know even without the jab a bunch of them might have bit the dust. I'll wait until I look outside my window and see people falling over in the street - then I'll start screaming.

Numbers are only useful, when they serve to prove MY POV.. ;0

 

REPORTS OF VACCINE ADVERSE EVENTS IN VAERS

15,386 COVID Vaccine Reported Deaths / 24,380 Total Reported Deaths

66,642 Total COVID Vaccine Reported Hospitalizations/144,557 Total Reported Hospitalizations

726,963 COVID Vaccine Adverse Event Reports

Through September 17, 2021

https://openvaers.com/covid-data/mortality

 

[ThailandRyan]

9 hours ago, Freeduhdumb said:

REPORTS OF VACCINE ADVERSE EVENTS IN VAERS

15,386 COVID Vaccine Reported Deaths / 24,380 Total Reported Deaths

66,642 Total COVID Vaccine Reported Hospitalizations/144,557 Total Reported Hospitalizations

726,963 COVID Vaccine Adverse Event Reports

Through September 17, 2021

https://openvaers.com/covid-data/mortality

Out of 6.18 Billion doses given as of today that's .0001176316% of all vaccinations.  I think that is acceptable don't you.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

 

44.7% of the world population has received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine.  6.18 billion doses have been administered globally, and 26.99 million are now administered each day.

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by ThailandRyan

[Freeduhdumb]

8 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Out of 6.18 Billion doses given as of today that's .0001176316% of all vaccinations.  I think that is acceptable don't you.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

44.7% of the world population has received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine.  6.18 billion doses have been administered globally, and 26.99 million are now administered each day.

You are aware that VAERS is realistically estimated to be reporting somewhere between 1% and 10% of all actual adverse events... right? That MAY have increased slightly  due to Covid. 

I would cite the Harvard study that first elucidated this... but we all have our own studies we can point to, this is the name of the game you know, establishing your own "facts."

Here is what I can tell you as a "frontline" licensed healthcare professional, that we, my colleagues and I are often not taking the time to sit down and fill out those 10 page VAERS reports... So, I can confirm with first hand knowledge and experience the veracity of the claims these databases are not being efficiently completed... Harvard Study or no Harvard study. 

The bottom line is... taking the Vaxx is a roll of the dice. Choose what odds you want to pick. ;)


 

[Smithydog]

 

The article in question in the topic is sensationalism in my opinion. Just like those using VAERs data solely to “claim” deaths reported by the vaccines. One does wonder how many times people have to be reminded of what the VAERs data is and why you can’t use it to “claim deaths”.

But back on topic. In England, The Office of national Statistics (ONS) tracks causes of death based on using standardised codes to indicate causes. They publish their results on a monthly basis for England and Wales in a report called the Monthly Mortality Report.

The latest report August 2021 is shown below. Table 12 shows the Number of deaths registered that include the codes for deaths associated to Covid-19 during the 6 month period of March 2020 to August 2021.

The code U12.9 is assigned for Doctors to use to cover deaths caused by an adverse effect of the COVID-19 vaccine. For England, 4 deaths were reported under this code. There is a second code mentioned U11.9 which means a COVID-19 vaccination was mentioned but there is no causal connection to the death. But even if we used this only a further 6 deaths would be added to the total for England.

That would seem to indicate a total of 10 deaths would be the maximum. Somewhat less than the 30,305 reported deaths implied as being associated to the vaccine due to the way the article is worded. After all, why would you even mention the word vaccine unless you were implying an association!

You can get the report here, download and draw your own conclusions.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/file?uri=%2fpeoplepopulationandcommunity%2fbirthsdeathsandmarriages%2fdeaths%2fdatasets%2fmonthlymortalityanalysisenglandandwales%2faugust2021/monthlymortalityanalysisaug2021.xlsx

 But I am sure the conspiracy theorists will believe the difference is because the 348,450 registered Doctors in the UK, (UK Medical Board number) have banded together to be rewarded with stress, overwork and continual risk simply to be a party to a cover-up!

 https://www.gmc-uk.org/registration-and-licensing/the-medical-register

 

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, Freeduhdumb said:

You are aware that VAERS is realistically estimated to be reporting somewhere between 1% and 10% of all actual adverse events... right? That MAY have increased slightly  due to Covid. 

I would cite the Harvard study that first elucidated this... but we all have our own studies we can point to, this is the name of the game you know, establishing your own "facts."

Here is what I can tell you as a "frontline" licensed healthcare professional, that we, my colleagues and I are often not taking the time to sit down and fill out those 10 page VAERS reports... So, I can confirm with first hand knowledge and experience the veracity of the claims these databases are not being efficiently completed... Harvard Study or no Harvard study. 

The bottom line is... taking the Vaxx is a roll of the dice. Choose what odds you want to pick. ;)


 

When you come back with a response like you did to my post on numbers vaccinated and the miniscule numbers reported as having side effects it makes me wonder if you really understand any vaccine and the side effects they can cause.  All vaccines cause some type of side effect and yet not many people report them, yet there you have it, your view is stuck in thecrealm of those antivaxxerswho believe a vaccine for covid can cause a myriad if health issues.  Well hello they all can. Your attempt to validate your feelings on the covid vaccines just evaporated into thin air.

[Freeduhdumb]

4 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

When you come back with a response like you did to my post on numbers vaccinated and the miniscule numbers reported as having side effects it makes me wonder if you really understand any vaccine and the side effects they can cause.  All vaccines cause some type of side effect and yet not many people report them, yet there you have it, your view is stuck in thecrealm of those antivaxxerswho believe a vaccine for covid can cause a myriad if health issues.  Well hello they all can. Your attempt to validate your feelings on the covid vaccines just evaporated into thin air.

Lol. Oh... no. You haven't heard my feelings on this yet, that post would never survive this forum. Lol. 

Edited September 29, 2021 by Freeduhdumb
Grammar correction

[Hamosity]

On 9/19/2021 at 1:41 AM, Americanbob said:

These same types of issues keep cropping up - where there's smoke there's fire.

Sadly we live in a world where this axiom doesn’t stand alone.
 

Where there’s smoke there could be smoke machines - AKA social media platforms. 

[vlad]

As i live in the UK we have our Daily figures updated. I have never heare'd of this being banded about so you can only presume its fake scare mongering.

[yselmike]

When the BBC report the daily figures it's "people who have died within 28 days of being positive" not 21 days.They quote the numbers from the four countries of the UK.

The government figures are a total of 136.500 who died within 28 days of a positive test.

160k died and COVID was mentioned on the death certificate.These are the latest figures for the pandemic.

30k sounds about right.

My neighbor died,he had lung cancer that had moved to his liver and kidneys,he tested positive for covid,that probably sent him on his way mercifully quickly.

[AussieBob]

My read - it has been totally debunked.