Debunk This Please

[AdamX]

Vaccines do provide some protection, but there are downsides. If this number of people were killed in England in 6 months, it would be called a slaughter,.

Can anyone debunk this

 

BREAKING – 30,305 people died within 21 days of having a Covid-19 Vaccine in England during the first 6 months of 2021 according to ONS data

https://theexpose.uk/2021/09/15/30k-people-died-within-21-days-of-having-a-covid-19-vaccine-in-england/

 

[Convert54]

Without any provision of details  such as  average age, underlying  conditions etc how to give meaningful answer? 

A study in Europe which investigated similar claims  found that the number of all people who died over a given time period was nominally the same before covid vaccinations and due to usual causes of morbidity.

How many people in England died in the previous  6 months and prior to covid  vaccinations? And how many of them were considered high risk thus  given priority for the vaccine?

 

 

 

 

 

[riclag]

1 hour ago, AdamX said:

Vaccines do provide some protection, but there are downsides. If this number of people were killed in England in 6 months, it would be called a slaughter,.

Can anyone debunk this

BREAKING – 30,305 people died within 21 days of having a Covid-19 Vaccine in England during the first 6 months of 2021 according to ONS data

https://theexpose.uk/2021/09/15/30k-people-died-within-21-days-of-having-a-covid-19-vaccine-in-england/

It sure does sound suspicious .All of these deaths occurring within that time period and the lack of transparency by some agencies,under questioning 

[noosard]

It is from a looney paper with funny numbers

https://theexpose.uk/2021/09/16/8-times-as-many-died-due-to-covid-vaccines-than-people-who-died-of-covid-19/

"IT’S OFFICIAL – Official data shows 8 times as many people have died due to the Covid Vaccines in 6 months than people who have died of Covid-19 in 18 months"

"BY DAILY EXPOSE ON SEPTEMBER 16, 2021 • ( 5 COMMENTS )"

 

This is the quality of their articles

Fudged numbers

 

Edited September 19, 2021 by Smithydog
Added comment and link (URL) as required

[kerryd]

Right off the bat, when I do a search of the "headline" it turns up a total of 2 sites. Neither of them a reliable, major media site.
The other site (aside from "exposeuk.com") is just someone's blog post.

Note that I did find a report debunking a similar claim. The other claim was that over 5,500 people had died in Scotland after receiving a Covid vaccination between Dec 2020 and June 2021.

But the report notes - that is the total number of people who died during that period, from any and every cause, including cancer, heart attacks, accidents, murders, etc.

(That's what happens when morons take numbers and stats out of context in order to con people into thinking differently about something.)

Meanwhile, according to Scottish officials, of the millions who have received a covid vaccination, only 4 have died due to complications from the vaccination.

When you see a headline that looks like total BS, from a questionable site/blog and it doesn't appear anywhere else, chances are it's BS.

[billybob]

There's a lot of garbage about the vaccines on the internet - sometimes you need to find the source of De(Nial) .

 

[ThailandRyan]

Are you trying to say they died because of the vaccine, is that what your alluding to?  I think you better take a look at the stats again to see if they died from Covid itself exacerbating a known medical condition.

[billybob]

4 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Are you trying to say they died because of the vaccine, is that what your alluding to?  I think you better take a look at the stats again to see if they died from Covid itself exacerbating a known medical condition.

Like folk going on about how can you prove the moon landing's weren't faked a statistic like that ain't worth going down the rabbit hole for. 

[Americanbob]

The 'jab' appears to have adverse effects for some people. Every week we see a growing list of possible harm. Mostly related to the spike protein causing micro-bleeds and/or clots which lead to loss of eyesight, neurological issues, Bell's Palsy, strokes fertility, and heart complications.

These same types of issues keep cropping up - where there's smoke there's fire.

However, even though I believe this may be the start of a depopulation exercise - we don't see people falling over in the street in numbers. I think once they vaccinate the children (something already heavily under way) we might see evidence that is more difficult to sweep under the rug - this is a demographic usually free from the kind of damage mentioned above.

The only way to counteract that would be for a 'new variant' to emerge that is specifically more aggressive towards youth. I thought this would already have 'emerged' as the impetus for people to let their kids get jabbed, apparently though - parents are just shrugging and letting it happen.

On the surface everything looks fine, unless people do start dropping like flies the unknowns will continue, is it harmful, how harmful, how many, what effects, when to expect them.

It's very confusing. If I've learned anything it's that numbers are almost useless, any side can manipulate them in a way to make or obfuscate their case.

[JamesE]

14 hours ago, AdamX said:

BREAKING – 30,305 people died within 21 days of having a Covid-19 Vaccine in England during the first 6 months of 2021

"In related news... BREAKING – 30,305 people died within 21 days of eating chips in England during the first 6 months of 2021. Film at 11..."

Really, given that in England a typical 3-week period sees 36,653 deaths, getting the vaccine shows about a 20% improvement in your chances. (Data from: https://population.un.org/wpp/DataQuery/ (Yes, yes, yes... I understand the the UN has been infiltrated by the Rosicrucians funded by George Soros and Bill Gates so that their ChemTrail Plot will remain unreported as they spread 5G into every refrigerator on the planet. But, still...))

[Americanbob]

4 hours ago, JamesE said:

Gates so that their ChemTrail Plot will remain unreported as they spread 5G into every refrigerator on the planet. But, still...))

Must be rather peaceful whistling your way through life while poking fun at the tinfoil hat gang. I honestly wish I could do it. Remember; all the rights much of the world lost in the last 19 month are just temporary! ;)

• Right to travel
• Right to work, go into restaurants, gyms, or simply go to see a movie
• Right to assemble with like-minded folks
• Ability to just go to the beach without a mask, or to the park and sit next to your kids and family
• Free speech without being cancelled, deplatformed, or having six cops show up at your house
• Right to not accept a vaccine without becoming a second class citizen (right to your own body)
• In some places you've lost the ability to have a beer in a bar, go to the pub after 10pm, or nightlife all together
• Losing your job, small business, the way you make money, or how much you make
• Being locked in your house or geo-fenced the same as if you were under house arrest

Combine that with the government making up rules as they go that incorporate civil fines, prison time or just a good beat down. Rules that you never voted for or on.

All for a virus that has less than 1% chance of causing you significant harm if you're under 60yo.

To put it another way:

If you're 45yo your chances of dying from:

• Heart Disease: 1 in 6
• Cancer: 1 in 7
• All preventative causes of death: 1 in 24
• Chronic lower respiratory disease: 1 in 27
• Suicide: 1 in 88
• Opioid deaths: 1 in 92
• Falls: 1 in 106
• Motorcycle-vehicle incident: 1 in 107
• Gun assault: 1 in 289
• Pedestrian Incident: 1 in 543
• Covid 45yo: 1 in 800
• Drowning: 1 in 1,128

Do we stop the world for these? Does the government have lotteries and give-aways to prevent people from riding motorbikes? Do we stop travel and shut the world down while we scramble to ban ladders, guns, and hamburgers? Your chances of dying walking across the street are far greater. Does no-one get this?

If you can live through this, watch the videos coming out of Australia and France, watch kids being taken into concert halls for jabs, and still think it's the tin-foil hat folks that have a problem. More power to you bro.

The world will return to normal, very soon, just hold your breath and ... wait for it.

 

 

Edited September 18, 2021 by Americanbob

[JamesE]

30 minutes ago, Americanbob said:

all the rights much of the world lost

There are no such things as "rights". It's a recent human construct, only a few hundred years old.

31 minutes ago, Americanbob said:

All for a virus that has less than 1% chance of causing you significant harm if you're under 60yo.

So, then, I'm completely out of luck.

32 minutes ago, Americanbob said:

The world will return to normal, very soon, just hold your breath and ... wait for it.

The world never "returns to normal". That's what's know as progress. The needs of a planet and society containing nearly eight billion large mammals - us - which developed over the last 225 years is much different than the needs of societies of much less than one billion that existed for the previous 200,000 years. The numbers you quote are, I'm sure pretty close, but you have to realize that those numbers are only as low as they are because all the things you speak out against, happened. You also have to remember that when this started nobody knew how bad it was going to be so the decisions erred on the side of epidemiological caution, not economic. And, as a result, we didn't see how bad it could have been until India happened and bodies started popping up out of the mud of the riverbanks. Not wanting to be the next India is what's driving the response in places that are wealthy enough to have that choice.

Life is never certain and it's never fair. Each of us always acts in our own self-interest so when something affects our "rights" or steps on our beliefs we start running around with our hair on fire. But collectively, the needs or wants of each of us should always be subservient to the needs or wants of all of us.

[Americanbob]

Why do people feel the need to dig in deeper to protect their POV. Just let it go if you disagree and stop trying to prove you point with weaker and weaker arguments. I didn't step on your dong. (sigh)

[JamesE]

18 minutes ago, Americanbob said:

Why do people feel the need to dig in deeper to protect their POV. Just let it go if you disagree and stop trying to prove you point with weaker and weaker arguments. I didn't step on your dong. (sigh)

That's what a debate is about. But I did read your other post on how the rules have affected you over the past year and a half and I understand better where you're coming from. The difference between us is that I'm coming from a place where the pandemic didn't affect me at all other than having to wear a mask and not eat out in restaurants. If I wanted to go for a walk, I could. Or shopping, or working in the garden or basically anything that avoided close contact with strangers. The rights and freedoms you had stepped on didn't really come into play.

[9S_]

19 hours ago, Convert54 said:

Without any provision of details  such as  average age, underlying  conditions etc how to give meaningful answer? 

A study in Europe which investigated similar claims  found that the number of all people who died over a given time period was nominally the same before covid vaccinations and due to usual causes of morbidity.

How many people in England died in the previous  6 months and prior to covid  vaccinations? And how many of them were considered high risk thus  given priority for the vaccine?

So these vaccines are deadly for people of certain groups ranging from ages to health status. 
 

Wait I thought these were safe?

[ThailandRyan]

58 minutes ago, Americanbob said:

Why do people feel the need to dig in deeper to protect their POV. Just let it go if you disagree and stop trying to prove you point with weaker and weaker arguments. I didn't step on your dong. (sigh)

Exactly, there are only two things that are certain in life and that is "Death and Taxes"

[Bob20]

 

4 hours ago, Americanbob said:

To put it another way:

If you're 45yo your chances of dying from:

• Heart Disease: 1 in 6
• Cancer: 1 in 7
• All preventative causes of death: 1 in 24
• Chronic lower respiratory disease: 1 in 27
• Suicide: 1 in 88
• Opioid deaths: 1 in 92
• Falls: 1 in 106
• Motorcycle-vehicle incident: 1 in 107
• Gun assault: 1 in 289
• Pedestrian Incident: 1 in 543
• Covid 45yo: 1 in 800
• Drowning: 1 in 1,128

 

12 hours ago, Americanbob said:

It's very confusing. If I've learned anything it's that numbers are almost useless, any side can manipulate them in a way to make or obfuscate their case.

So, thanks for the list of numbers

[JamesE]

3 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Exactly, there are only two things that are certain in life and that is "Death and Taxes"

One thing...

[Smithydog]

 

People do tend to believe what they want from statistics. Consider for example the latest COVID-19 vaccine weekly safety report from the TGA Australia. This body is the one that monitors approvals and adverse effects in Australia.

Now I know this is not the UK body and Aussies like to show up the Poms whenever they can, however unlike some though, it seems to publish results of findings of investigations in these reports rather than just “reported” effects on vaccinations.

 https://www.tga.gov.au/periodic/covid-19-vaccine-weekly-safety-report-16-09-2021#section-953

 “Since the beginning of the vaccine rollout to 12 September 2021, over 22.8 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines have been given. So far, the TGA has found that 9 reports of deaths were linked to immunisation from 535 reports received and reviewed. These deaths occurred after the first dose of the Vaxzevria (AstraZeneca) vaccine – 8 were TTS cases and one was a case of immune thrombocytopenia (ITP). The overwhelming majority of deaths reported to the TGA following vaccination occurred in people aged 65 years and older.”

Personally, I wish the UK bodies were so open so we could all truly understand what is really happening. But to use the Australian figures included above only as a demonstration of how any stats can be manipulated, including those reported in the first news article, consider the following.

Based on those TGA reported figures only, if you decide to get a vaccine shot in Australia it seems you have a 1 in 2,533,333 (2.53 million) chance of actually dying from the vaccine itself. Or a 1 in 42,616 chance of being “reported as death as an adverse effect” from the vaccine itself.

So, my conclusion is this and this only!

If you happen to be in Australia, have made a choice to get a vaccine shot, are aged over 65 and the 2,533,332nd person in the queue to get the shot, I suggest you might just think about feeling generous and giving the person behind you the chance to go first!

 

[BraveNewFahrenheit]

Whoopsie!!

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2184023/healthy-ratchaburi-man-dies-after-receiving-az-booster-shot

[Americanbob]

Well, I don't think anyone has successfully debunked the OP?

About impossible to know if the numbers are correct, near-correct, wildly incorrect.

It appears:

• Some places don't count it as a CV19 death until after a certain amount of time has elapsed after the jab.. 7 days, 14 days, 21 days?

I made a long list, but in essence, without a consistent, standardized and unbiased method of reporting cause of death then.. shrug... Also, the first 6 months of 2021 was probably the time the most elderly (with most co-morbidity) were getting vaxxed, for all we know even without the jab a bunch of them might have bit the dust. I'll wait until I look outside my window and see people falling over in the street - then I'll start screaming.

Numbers are only useful, when they serve to prove MY POV.. ;0

[JackIsAGoodBoy]

20-30 years old healthy individuals getting heart attacks and blood clots, after receiving either viral vector (AZ, J&J) or mRNA (Moderna, Pfizer) vaccine. That is not normal and that is why many doctors and nurses are refusing to take the jabs.

[Benroon]

22 hours ago, kerryd said:

Right off the bat, when I do a search of the "headline" it turns up a total of 2 sites. Neither of them a reliable, major media site.
The other site (aside from "exposeuk.com") is just someone's blog post.

Note that I did find a report debunking a similar claim. The other claim was that over 5,500 people had died in Scotland after receiving a Covid vaccination between Dec 2020 and June 2021.

But the report notes - that is the total number of people who died during that period, from any and every cause, including cancer, heart attacks, accidents, murders, etc.

(That's what happens when morons take numbers and stats out of context in order to con people into thinking differently about something.)

Meanwhile, according to Scottish officials, of the millions who have received a covid vaccination, only 4 have died due to complications from the vaccination.

When you see a headline that looks like total BS, from a questionable site/blog and it doesn't appear anywhere else, chances are it's BS.

Very well put, it’s called desperation from our conspiracy friends - or embarrassing, take your pick. 

[Benroon]

1 hour ago, JackIsAGoodBoy said:

20-30 years old healthy individuals getting heart attacks and blood clots, after receiving either viral vector (AZ, J&J) or mRNA (Moderna, Pfizer) vaccine. That is not normal and that is why many doctors and nurses are refusing to take the jabs.

Versus how many ARE taking the jabs? try to add context to your posts else they just get filed under ‘rants’ 

[JohninDublin]

It's noteworthy that some posters have begun by questioning the source and commented on it's questionability. However, I am not going to make any attempt whatsoever to debunk this. It is quite likely true. But it is also meaningless with regard to the vaccines debate. Has anybody noticed that the headline does not say that they died of CV?

But let's look for what the figures also don't tell you: To begin with, the period included the lag effect of Bojo's Xmas gift to the British people, where most restrictions were lifted, and many of those that were not, were often impractical to enforce.

This is what happened using 7-day moving averages. By Dec 10th, new infections were on a steady decline from the then 25k cases a day peak a month earlier to 15k a day. Bojo said. "Have a great Xmas. Here is my gift to you", and a month later, the average moved to 59k new cases a day. By this time vaxxing was up and running, and the first people to get the jab were the very elderly. This now raises the question of how many of those people may have already been infected, or more likely, died of other natural causes?

If you look at the graphs provided on Worldometers.com , you can see that 54k died within 28 days of a CV diagnosis which is the UK reporting standard. The peak is Jan 24th where the 7-day average reaches  1242 dead per day. One month later, it is 443 by which time vaxxing has been in full flow for two months. Mar 24th - 78. Apr 24th -23. By this time, Delta is starting to kick in. May 24th-6. For over a month, in spite of Delta, it remains below 20. Bojo again gets magnanimous and announces major easing of restrictions, and now we are back to 140.

In the six month period this headline refers to, CV deaths were nearly 300 a day. In the 80 days since they have declined to 90 per day, with most of these coming in the past 60 days which has averaged 120. The previous 80 days, it was 25 per day.

Another figure that should be mentioned is the mortality rate which was 2.98% at Dec 31st. The rate since Jan 1st, has declined to 1.24%. That's an improvement in recoveries of nearly 60%

I've already admitted that I can't debunk the story reported and it's probably true, but where is the data that might help to explain these deaths? Try to put it another way. You can produce figures that will show how many people because of WWII (estimated at about 55 mill). You can just as easily say 70 mill died during WWII, because people died of other causes unrelated to the war in places where there was no war. I suspect that a substantial chunk of those reported in this headline, died of causes other than CV.