News Forum - Cabinet approves measure to entice “high potential” foreigners to Thailand

[Marc26]

39 minutes ago, Benroon said:

British banks get scammed every day of the week for considerably more than that and if even a hint of negligence can be proved you won't get it back. 

So many people in Thailand like to think only bad things happen in Thailand!

In the US/Canada you get your money back without any sort of extra reporting if it's under a certain amount 

I got 11k usd taken out of my bank account in the US many years ago(18 I think )

I had to file a police report but that was it and my money was returned to my bank account in less than 2 weeks

This is 9-10k baht, he had to physically bring a policeman to the bank with him, after dealing with the bank for 2 weeks with no relief from them

It's now 2 months and he's still waiting for his money back.

And Thai banks are notorious for being unhelpful in these type of situations 

 

So it's not some moan, there is a legitimate difference in banking support 

And that would be a concern for me when you are talking about 1000's of USD and not 10k baht 

[Marc26]

1 hour ago, Soidog said:

That is one way of viewing it. However ask yourself this. Look at the countries that do allow foreigners to own land and businesses. You know, places like the U.K., Australia, U.S, Japan, France, Germany, Canada and Italy. It’s no coincidence that these are all G7 nations. Each took the step back in their history to move forward and attract the smartest and most talented people on the planet to grow their country and develop the economy. Protectionism to the extent there is in Thailand is not to protect the rural poor from being priced out of the housing market. It’s to make sure foreigners don’t come in and take a slice of the pie from the Thai billionaires. The “Thailand is for Thais” mantra is just brainwashing so the rich can continue to use the poor as a large pool of in-house cheap Labour. Fire feed would want to introduce a decent minimum wage. Introduce rights for women. Stop slave Labour in fishing boats. That’s what they are protecting 

Well now look at those western countries 

Their citizens are being priced out of the home buying market by foreigners bidding up home prices 

 

It's certainly the case in Canada, I've heard the same in Australia 

Not as much in the US though 

[Soidog]

53 minutes ago, Benroon said:

I don't disagree but my point was every time there's a shocking murder/rape/embezzlemet, hordes of indignant westerners take to the streets (or forums) in states of abject shock like it never happens in their countries. I'm firmly in the 'if you don't like it f off' camp!

I agree that it’s wrong to assume everything is bad and your own country is perfect. For me I see lots of things wrong with my own country and express those opinions at the right time and right place. This forum is about Thailand and hence it gets feedback on what’s wrong in Thailand from me. That doesn’t mean I believe “home” is perfect, far from it. 
 

I think the only thing that differentiates the things I find bad about Thailand compared to my own country, is that many of the bad things are carried out by those who should be role models. Politicians, Police, government agencies. General bad people exist everywhere in the world and Thailand is no better or worse. 
 

Finally, I don’t think the answer is If you don’t like it then ef’off. Many of the things wrong in Thailand are abuse of basic human rights and international norms. It’s fair to call out those things and complain. If on the other hand you are complaining about the humid weather, Thai religion, Thai music or the Thai food, then you really shouldn’t be in Thailand. If you are complaining about lack of law enforcement, corruption, or road users appalling driving resulting in 20,000+ people a year being killed, then I think they are reasonable complaints 

[Soidog]

41 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

Well now look at those western countries 

Their citizens are being priced out of the home buying market by foreigners bidding up home prices 

It's certainly the case in Canada, I've heard the same in Australia 

Not as much in the US though 

You may be right about Canada. I’m not aware of that in Australia, U.K., France, Italy, U.S or Germany. Places like London and Paris are naturally high prices due to demand, both local and international. What’s pushing house prices up generally across those countries is too many people and not enough quality houses. 

[EdwardV]

I just don't see the selling point. So you don't have to report every 90 days, and can buy a single family home (lets see the details on that before thinking it's a good idea), and get a 5-10 year visa. All nice things but is it really worth investing $500K USD to do so? Especially considering the return on your investment is questionable at best. 

[JohninDublin]

1 hour ago, Marc26 said:

Well now look at those western countries 

Their citizens are being priced out of the home buying market by foreigners bidding up home prices 

It's certainly the case in Canada, I've heard the same in Australia 

Not as much in the US though 

I can never understand why it's foreigners who get the blame for rising property prices. Following Credit Crunch, the Bank of England threw money at the main high street banks with instructions to get it lent out ASAP to keep the economy going. What the BoE meant was to get the money loaned out to business and industry. However, as we all know, UK banks are extremely conservative animals, and they wouldn't lend to businesses that might be struggling in case they went bust. It's a well known fact of life, that these banks only lend to people who don't really need it, unless of course you van provide security.

But the banks were awash with funding from the BoE so they lent the money to the rich and super-rich at rates of 1-2%. Many in turn bought repossessed properties became landlords under "buy to let" schemes. Within 3 years due to rising prices house prices increased by 30% in most major UK cities, and rents by 100%. It really was a "no-brainer", as historically UK house prices have risen by about 7% PA since 1900. In addition, the borrowers who were all in the 40% tax bracket, got tax relief on the interest payments thus reducing their liability on interest payments to between 0.6% - 1.2%.

So they were able to borrow £20 Mill on "interest only" mortgages. After 3 years the assets had increased by £6mill, and they had paid at most £360k on these loans. This was reduced even further because they were collecting rents and after expenses, were still able to show an annual profit.

The myth of foreigners driving up prices only really occurs in either the most exclusive areas, or in countries with small populations where it does not take a great deal of money to distort the market. The nearest the UK has come to that, was i the last decade when there was a lot of Chinese money flooding into London, But they were only investing in upscale properties, mainly in new developments as "buy to lets", and not terraced houses in Hammersmith or Hackney. They did particularly well following Brexit when the £ crashed 15% overnight, That meant that the property they were proposing to buy the day before for £1 mill, was now going to cost them £850k when they eventually converted their RMB into £'s

[Paco]

10 hours ago, Bob20 said:

Don't worry. There were an estimated 3.5-4m foreigners in Thailand. Now with the pandemic probably a lot less. They'll never get 1m extra very wealthy ones to use such a scheme in 5 years under the current circumstances. But they may lose more if it doesn't improve soon.

i know that, but i think is a lot better to focus on the people that are already here, they spending money already here, so keep them here, if they only focus on 'potential' investors, that did not ask for to make an investment... is useless.... make it easier for the people that live here and are sick of the nonsense rules, iam under 50 when i divorced after 13 years, i had hell of a problem to get a visa i went to Cambodia (4 times, i know not allowed but they let me, grateful to the officers there) 3 times Laos, hell what a night mare and it is not cheap in the end either, in the end i purchased a  elite visa, counting out the difference if i have to go back (will cost me in the long run a lot more and i do not want to go back, i consider Thailand my home country (something what Thailand will never understand or respect)

 

in my opinion it is already bad to say going for the rich people, it looks greedy and i am sure after they adjust the rules (like with the sandbox) words they say are not trustworthy at all. first they should create some trust, but right now Thailand has a very bad name in that. These are plans made up in 2 minutes sometimes it looks like that and are not considered reliable in the long run.....

 

Thailand should consider they competing with other countries and they have a lot better conditions for long stay foreigners and investors then Thailand

Edited September 15, 2021 by Paco

[Disenfranchised]

3 hours ago, Marc26 said:

Well now look at those western countries 

Their citizens are being priced out of the home buying market by foreigners bidding up home prices 

It's certainly the case in Canada, I've heard the same in Australia 

Not as much in the US though 

Same in the US and UK.

[Disenfranchised]

2 hours ago, Soidog said:

You may be right about Canada. I’m not aware of that in Australia, U.K., France, Italy, U.S or Germany. Places like London and Paris are naturally high prices due to demand, both local and international. What’s pushing house prices up generally across those countries is too many people and not enough quality houses. 

You would need a £100,000 to buy any kind of house in the UK and even  £1,000,000 wouldn't get you a decent shack in London. 

Same in NY city where a closet would cost you a small fortune. 

But the russian oligarchs are hapy to look down on you from there bedroom windows.

Edited September 15, 2021 by Disenfranchised

[Benroon]

On 9/15/2021 at 5:26 AM, Soidog said:

I agree that it’s wrong to assume everything is bad and your own country is perfect. For me I see lots of things wrong with my own country and express those opinions at the right time and right place. This forum is about Thailand and hence it gets feedback on what’s wrong in Thailand from me. That doesn’t mean I believe “home” is perfect, far from it. 
 

I think the only thing that differentiates the things I find bad about Thailand compared to my own country, is that many of the bad things are carried out by those who should be role models. Politicians, Police, government agencies. General bad people exist everywhere in the world and Thailand is no better or worse. 
 

Finally, I don’t think the answer is If you don’t like it then ef’off. Many of the things wrong in Thailand are abuse of basic human rights and international norms. It’s fair to call out those things and complain. If on the other hand you are complaining about the humid weather, Thai religion, Thai music or the Thai food, then you really shouldn’t be in Thailand. If you are complaining about lack of law enforcement, corruption, or road users appalling driving resulting in 20,000+ people a year being killed, then I think they are reasonable complaints 

Fair enough - though Thai music and Thai TV are truly appalling so I’m going to have to extradite myself!! 

[LoongFred]

13 minutes ago, Benroon said:

Fair enough - though Thai music and Thai TV are truly appalling so I’m going to have to extradite myself!! 

I don't have falang TV and I watch Thai TV nightly. Much preferred it to the C**P on falang TV. That's me though and not for everyone. It also helps improve my Thai language skills. 

I also like Thai music and watch singing contests on TV. Some very good and some ***. At least they try. Issan music (Mor Lom) is really good. 

[AussieBob]

I am married to a wonderful Thai lady and therefore we will be coming to live in Thailand - probably.  If these proposed Visas are anything like those on offer from Malaysia, or Indonesia (Bali), or Singapore, or Philippines, then we will both be happier about moving back to Thailand. But I suspect that the Thai Govt will be approving the same shite as that Thai Visa Elite khrap, but at even higher costs.  I hope they have looked at what is on offer from those other countries, but I suspect they have just looked at the Visa Elite stuff, and decided to charge a lot more money to remove the 90 days and other business/ownership regulations. Time will tell - until then I will wait and see what they actually deliver. 

[AdvocatusDiaboli]

9 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

and decided to charge a lot more money to remove the 90 days

But still have to sit down next to everyone at the immigration office every 365 days.

[oldcpu]

6 hours ago, Soidog said:

That’s simply not true. I personally know many people from the U.K. who have moved to Australia, ound a job, bought a house and eventually gained Austrian citizenship. However they want people who will contribute or who have skills they needs such as teachers, engineers, nurses etc. Not a bunch of retired people who will be a drain on resources. 

And I know many qualified people, engineers, pilots, who were turned down residency in Australia and New Zealand ... One in particular had a paid for house in Australia of about a million Aus $ with a paying job who had to leave Australia when residency refused and visa time run out.

Australia and New Zealand are massively more difficult to migrate to than Thailand. 

[oldcpu]

2 hours ago, JohninDubin said:

I can never understand why it's foreigners who get the blame for rising property prices.

I could explain it to you but you would not believe me.

Case in point : Vancouver.

Prices skyrocketed for real estate after Hong Kong Chinese money poured in.

This was all areas and not just exclusive spots.

[LoongFred]

Thailand wants retirees that are self sufficiant and can bring money into the economy. I understand and agree with their reasoning. Coming to Thailand with insufficiant resources is a drag on the Thai economy. Those getting by with a weekly load of groceries at Big C and a tank of gas contribute very little, IMO. 

I have to admit that since the pandemic started, I've done a lot less and pretty much stay home. I do contribute to local and community fund raises, but I try to do it quietly as not to embarass others. I bugs me when falangs walk by collection boxes as if they don't exist. 

One can live very cheaply in Thailand, but that's not the way I want to live. I don't want to live walled off as a falang either and love interacting with my neighbors and friends (both Thais and a few falangs). Life is pretty good.

[jax0007]

12 hours ago, DiJoDavO said:

Not to say that foreigners should lead this country. But on immigration issues, it'd be a good idea to have some group of foreigners who live here a certain amount of years and add them to the discussion on certain topics like this. What do expats really want? 

If you look how many things that they thought was a great idea, have gone wrong.... Then they don't really understand foreigners. 

In this article it looks as if they want foreigners to come over, but making all the wrong choices is not gonna help. 

what drunks ...........yer lets go to the best of best of farang 

bums move to pattaya bums no more no less 

[Thommo]

14 hours ago, Disenfranchised said:

What about those already here? 

I see no reason why the 90day cannot be dropped for those who have permanent address's, especially those who have been here a number of years at the same address. Just require a change of address. Then there is all the duplicate paperwork required when renewing the visa each year. Even if you have been here 20 years you still have to submit the same old stuff. God knows where all the paper ends up.

I agree, even when i as working Shanghai it was only an annual visa renewal and address registration 

 

[AussieBob]

41 minutes ago, AdvocatusDiaboli said:

But still have to sit down next to everyone at the immigration office every 365 days.

Surely not!  They are goping to make 'high value Expats' go through all that immigration crap every year?? 

Actually I would not be surprised if they did not look at those 5 and 10 years Visas with automatic annual renewable, that other countries offer to 'special' Expats.  As I have said before elsewhere, if I was to review the Visas on offer right now for a retiring Expat, I would not choose Thailand. All the other countries I listed provide better deals to propective Expats - both those with serious money and those who are just OK financially.   Nowadays other retirement places like Vietnam and Taiwan are also really starting to put good packages together for both ends of the spectrum. 

From what I have seen, ever since the Junta took over, most of the 'high value' Japanese and Korean Expats have stopped coming. Plus many of the western Expats are reluctant about all the rules and regulations. They are all happy to visit for the girls of course, but they are all not so keen anymore to go through all the hoops and problems and costs to live in Thailand when there are so much better and easier options now available right across SEAsia.

Hopefully this whole things fails and crashes - maybe then they will realise the true situation they are in. 

[AdvocatusDiaboli]

9 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

Hopefully this whole things fails and crashes - maybe then they will realise the true situation they are in. 

Well won’t the rules change when they get a new General in charge? 

[AussieBob]

44 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

And I know many qualified people, engineers, pilots, who were turned down residency in Australia and New Zealand ... One in particular had a paid for house in Australia of about a million Aus $ with a paying job who had to leave Australia when residency refused and visa time run out.

Australia and New Zealand are massively more difficult to migrate to than Thailand. 

Absolutely true.  The Thai wife migrated to Australia and it was harder to apply (and more costly) than myself when I retired to live in Thailand. But it was not that much harder - it was all basically the same stuff - she has some money and financial support - she has no criminal records - she has no medical problems - she is not banned form entering Australia for any reason - and she is married to an Aussie Citizen.  BUT - now that she lives here she is a 'permanent resident', and she can get full citizenship, and she has full legal rights, and she has full access to everything any Aussie has (including the free medical system), and she never has to 'report', and she has no annual renewal crap, and there is no pricing discrimination. My Thai wife in Australia has none of all the other shite that I went through living in Thailand - for the privilege of spending 1 Million+ Baht every year.  I am reluctant to go back and live there again - but family is family. 

[farang]

i hope when thailand does reopen it will revert back to the system for visas it had 8 years back.the requirements now are so very hard to do.its about impossible to get insurance from a thai company,coe,flight,visa,covid test 72 hours before flight and file all the paper work hoping all goes well in time for your flight!!its just too much hassle.and many like myself who have lived there 18 plus years cant buy the insurance from a thai company due to age.so we are stuck. i wish they would drop these requirements and just charge all in coming visitors an insurance fee on arrival.even $100 usd to maybe $500 usd depending how long your stay.pay it on arriving.thai would make money as most would never use it.and that would cover the cost of ones who skip out on hospital bills.im a healthy  75 guy ,and this insurance thing has me stuck.even i have a usa insurance that will cover me totaly in thai ,but its not accepted. im hoping the coe,insurance  and other things are dropped  before high season.missing thailand and my freinds.thanks,farang

[Bob20]

It's nice to know the front door is open for the party.

Just a shame nobody will attend.

[oldcpu]

1 hour ago, AussieBob said:

 BUT - now that she lives here she is a 'permanent resident', and she can get full citizenship, and she has full legal rights, and she has full access to everything any Aussie has (including the free medical system), and she never has to 'report', and she has no annual renewal crap, and there is no pricing discrimination. 

Excellent !

I think that is very very good. 

[oldcpu]

1 hour ago, farang said:

i hope when thailand does reopen it will revert back to the system for visas it had 8 years back.the requirements now are so very hard to do.its about impossible to get insurance from a thai company, coe, flight, visa, covid test 72 hours before flight and file all the paper work hoping all goes well in time for your flight!! its just too much hassle.

You have highlighted a major reason why, I am cancelling all my planned travel out of Thailand at present, as it would be more effort than I would want to put forward, in order to return to Thailand.  Its simply easier to stay in Thailand at present.

Plus as an expat in Phuket (whose income does not depend on tourism), where the beaches are mostly empty, road traffic is relatively light, and hotels/restaurants are offering amazing bargains, (and where bar-hopping/drinking is not part of my lifestyle) its a very good time to be in Phuket.