News Forum - Quarantine, sealed routes may be ditched as government revises re-opening plan

[Bob20]

19 minutes ago, BIGGLES said:

Exactly my friend.

Little or no infections from the Sandbox tourist. All the infections coming from The Thai's. 

So why keep on treating cash cow as unclean.

Just insist on only admitting fully vaccinated tourists, with one pcr test taken at their point of departure 72 hours before. Nothing else.

Then open everything so, they can have a holiday experience,  rather than a jail look a like experience. 

They know this, they just will not accept that they have mismanaged the vaccine roll out.

I can see your good intentions, but you forgot a few things. 

They should test negative on arrival here, not 3 days before departure and still arrive carrying the virus. Yes, there were only about 6 or 8 arriving positive in Phuket, but in the new setup they will travel a lot and 6-8 superspreaders can mean disaster.

Also, even if Thailand allows entry, there will be small numbers of foreign tourists as the mostly unvaccinated population, combined with what you can hardly call an appealing holiday situation, is not inviting.

And thirdly, in the current situation those that take the risk to come here, also take the risk of returning as a virus carrier and face problems on return. Vaccination levels in those countries are high (er) but they still don't want additional cases and perhaps strains. Hence the code red in some countries, indicating the risk, and other countries can change their advice catching people out.

I still think that it's best for all parties to delay people movements until we have a large percentage of vaccinated people. Everything we do until then is for marginal profit and incurs major risk.

[Stonker]

6 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

I can see your good intentions, but you forgot a few things. 

They should test negative on arrival here, not 3 days before departure and still arrive carrying the virus. Yes, there were only about 6 or 8 arriving positive in Phuket, but in the new setup they will travel a lot and 6-8 superspreaders can mean disaster.

Also, even if Thailand allows entry, there will be small numbers of foreign tourists as the mostly unvaccinated population, combined with what you can hardly call an appealing holiday situation, is not inviting.

And thirdly, in the current situation those that take the risk to come here, also take the risk of returning as a virus carrier and face problems on return. Vaccination levels in those countries are high (er) but they still don't want additional cases and perhaps strains. Hence the code red in some countries, indicating the risk, and other countries can change their advice catching people out.

I still think that it's best for all parties to delay people movements until we have a large percentage of vaccinated people. Everything we do until then is for marginal profit and incurs major risk.

Exactly, but in practice the full effect would be considerably worse.

24 minutes ago, BIGGLES said:

So why keep on treating cash cow as unclean

Because even if the cash cows are as clean as the ones that have arrived so far having jumped through all the hoops and paid all the costs, they're still no cleaner than the locals, with a similar or higher infection rate.

 

39 minutes ago, BIGGLES said:

Just insist on only admitting fully vaccinated tourists, with one pcr test taken at their point of departure 72 hours before. Nothing else.

But if you do "nothing else" and make it cheaper and easier, relying on vaccination passports that are impossible to verify and PCR tests that may be out of date as well, you're going to be getting a lot of very dirty cows, many of whom will have fake papers as countries like the UK and Canada have found, particularly from places like India.

46 minutes ago, BIGGLES said:

 Then open everything so, they can have a holiday experience,  rather than a jail look a like experience. 

And that's the whole problem made infinitely worse than it would be already.  Tourists can't live in a bubble by themselves, so they can't have a "holiday experience" on their own, and if you "open everything" to them you can't avoid doing the same for everyone else here. Do that without a reasonable number being vaccinated and you'll set everything back by months if not years, and regardless of what vaccination numbers you believe, at the present rates there's no way that can happen before Songkran at the earliest.

[BIGGLES]

1 hour ago, Bob20 said:

I can see your good intentions, but you forgot a few things. 

They should test negative on arrival here, not 3 days before departure and still arrive carrying the virus. Yes, there were only about 6 or 8 arriving positive in Phuket, but in the new setup they will travel a lot and 6-8 superspreaders can mean disaster.

Also, even if Thailand allows entry, there will be small numbers of foreign tourists as the mostly unvaccinated population, combined with what you can hardly call an appealing holiday situation, is not inviting.

And thirdly, in the current situation those that take the risk to come here, also take the risk of returning as a virus carrier and face problems on return. Vaccination levels in those countries are high (er) but they still don't want additional cases and perhaps strains. Hence the code red in some countries, indicating the risk, and other countries can change their advice catching people out.

I still think that it's best for all parties to delay people movements until we have a large percentage of vaccinated people. Everything we do until then is for marginal profit and incurs major risk.

Fair point Bob, and well stated.

[Bob20]

And where did you go on holiday?

Oh, I know. Thailand..

[Soidog]

4 hours ago, Stonker said:

I know I won't get an answer, but "January" based on what?

Even believing all the figures, which you've said you don't, 70% of the population won't be vaccinated until Songkran next year at the earliest. 

I’ll indulge you this once @Stonker despite your condescending tone. 
 

Didn’t say which January ! 
 

And aren’t you the one who believes the Thais have vaccinated 39M jabs in 3-4 months? So another 3-4 should get at least another 39M. So at least most people would have had their first jab and that’s what they count as vaccinated. 
 

Im trying to be optimistic about the figures the Thai government trot out

[Soidog]

4 hours ago, Bob20 said:

Thanks for paraphrasing

https://thethaiger.com/talk/topic/5136-news-forum-quarantine-sealed-routes-may-be-ditched-as-government-revises-re-opening-plan/?do=findComment&comment=58935

Sorry @Bob20. It was a long post. I was getting excited at the thought the Thais are showing some logical and strategic thought at long last!  

[Bob20]

Just now, Soidog said:

Sorry @Bob20. It was a long post 

No problem. I said the same before, but you did it eloquently

[Soidog]

34 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

No problem. I said the same before, but you did it eloquently

Oh apologies! As I say, I got so excited that the article flowed logically that I most have missed the details of your post. 
 

I read the article and my first thought was that Thailand had been invaded overnight. That some logical thinking individual was now at the helm. The idea that they now seem to understand what a “Standard” operating procedure means was encouraging. Of course, anything can happen in the next 24 hours!…

[Bob20]

Just now, Soidog said:

Oh apologies! As I say, I got so excited that the article flowed logically that I most have missed the details of your post. 
 

I read the article and my first thought was that Thailand had been invaded overnight. That some logical thinking individual was now at the helm. The idea that they now seem to understand what a “Standard” operating procedure means was encouraging. Of course, anything can happen in the next 24 hours!…

Yes, anything can happen and here it probably will too

[DiJoDavO]

"He says the TAT is in talks with health officials to reduce the cost to around 8,000 baht for 3 tests." 

Can't they halve it again, and again... And again.... And again.... And again until it's affordable.

[Soidog]

10 minutes ago, DiJoDavO said:

"He says the TAT is in talks with health officials to reduce the cost to around 8,000 baht for 3 tests." 

Can't they halve it again, and again... And again.... And again.... And again until it's affordable.

Yes I read that. But in the article in the BKK Post it talked of halving that to 4,000 by using antigen tests for second and 3rd tests. See below screen shot

[AdvocatusDiaboli]

The latest information …. Via BK post https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2181731/tourism-to-reopen-despite-covid-minister-says

has one very important question left on the floor NOT asked. 
“ If the risk of all opening for tourism is worth taking, and the vaccination numbers they say are high enough to support the influx of tourists, why are the BARS not opening? “
 

I am glad I will be fully vaccinated by then, but worried on how they are opening the country to risk like this. Maybe the decision makers should have been the last to be vaccinated?

[Bob20]

16 minutes ago, AdvocatusDiaboli said:

The latest information …. Via BK post https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2181731/tourism-to-reopen-despite-covid-minister-says

has one very important question left on the floor NOT asked. 
“ If the risk of all opening for tourism is worth taking, and the vaccination numbers they say are high enough to support the influx of tourists, why are the BARS not opening? “
 

I am glad I will be fully vaccinated by then, but worried on how they are opening the country to risk like this. Maybe the decision makers should have been the last to be vaccinated?

...and they won't be the last ones leaving the ship either...

[AdvocatusDiaboli]

13 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

and they won't be the last ones leaving the ship either...

No, but more likely leave on a gulfstream 700

 

[Stonker]

4 hours ago, Soidog said:

And aren’t you the one who believes the Thais have vaccinated 39M jabs in 3-4 months? So another 3-4 should get at least another 39M. 

NO  I'M  NOT!

39 million doses, yes, but they started in February!

That's 39 million doses in 6-7 months, not 3-4!

Very different !

[Soidog]

7 hours ago, AdvocatusDiaboli said:

The latest information …. Via BK post https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2181731/tourism-to-reopen-despite-covid-minister-says

has one very important question left on the floor NOT asked. 
“ If the risk of all opening for tourism is worth taking, and the vaccination numbers they say are high enough to support the influx of tourists, why are the BARS not opening? “
 

I am glad I will be fully vaccinated by then, but worried on how they are opening the country to risk like this. Maybe the decision makers should have been the last to be vaccinated?

I don’t know why the bars in Thailand are not open either, as long as they are outside bars. We all now know that the chances of getting Covid are very low in a well ventilated environment. As long as bars are not allowed to be crammed full, then I think the risk is no worse than a shopping mall and far less than travelling on a bus or BTS. Nightclubs are clearly a risk. Indoors and poorly ventilated or recirculated ventilation and too many people in close contact shouting above loud music. Covid Central those places. 

[BJoe]

A little bit of common sense mixed with economic desperation seem to be coming into play.  I’m saying it again for the nth  time.  A fully vaccinated tourist with 3 negative COVID tests (1 before arrival, 1 after arrival and 1 after four days of arrival) pose little threat to the citizens of Thailand,  but in fact, are themselves being put to risk by a not vaccinated populous.     But that is a choice they are willing to take to vacation here.  Any restriction, forced quarantine, or additional $44 add-ons, would be  a hindrance to the rejuvenation of this very critical industry.

[Bob20]

2 minutes ago, BJoe said:

A little bit of common sense mixed with economic desperation seem to be coming into play.  I’m saying it again for the nth  time.  A fully vaccinated tourist with 3 negative COVID tests (1 before arrival, 1 after arrival and 1 after four days of arrival) pose little threat to the citizens of Thailand,  but in fact, are themselves being put to risk by a not vaccinated populous.     But that is a choice they are willing to take to vacation here.  Any restriction, forced quarantine, or additional $44 add-ons, would be  a hindrance to the rejuvenation of this very critical industry.

Yes, you are correct. But you need to think one step further.

So two minutes after the 3rd negative test they pick up the virus from a Thai local.

That's not your fault. But it is a problem.

Because now you travel through the country and transport and spread the virus everywhere, to people who have not been vaccinated yet.

Thailand is not yet ready for people that move around everywhere freely. That includes locals and tourists.

They need to protect their own population first!

[AdvocatusDiaboli]

2 hours ago, Bob20 said:

They need to protect their own population first!

So they will.

Half of the 70-million population will have received the first dose of Covid-19 vaccines by the end of October, with at least 1 million doses each for the first and second shots to be administered on Sept 24 alone to mark a special day.

I’m glad I get mine on 23rd. Maybe best to stay home on the 24th, might be chaotic on the streets.

[Bob20]

4 minutes ago, AdvocatusDiaboli said:

So they will.

Half of the 70-million population will have received the first dose of Covid-19 vaccines by the end of October, with at least 1 million doses each for the first and second shots to be administered on Sept 24 alone to mark a special day.

I’m glad I get mine on 23rd. Maybe best to stay home on the 24th, might be chaotic on the streets.

What are they going to do? Hose you down with it?