Healthcare costs and insurance.

[Bob20]

 

(Not sure whether this is the right spot, but I only found another area specifically for Covid insurance and this is more comprehensive)

 

Can I remind every foreigner that we are guests in Thailand?

And that the whole insurance matter is fuelled by a worrying and growing number of foreigners not paying the bills they accrue at doctors and hospitals.

Now, the tourists that visit 1, 2, 3 weeks will usually have travel insurance that covers them for health risks, theft, lost baggage etc.

The long-stayers are expected to have insurance now. However, for the elderly that can become a problem as insurers don't necessarily provide for them, or even exclude them.
And then there's the debate about Covid insurance.

The existing imposed solution seems like the worst of both worlds, both for the foreigners as well as for Thailand.

I don't know anyone who has great influence on this government, but I would suggest the following:

Insurance becomes optional once again. BUT every foreigner is strictly responsible for their own health bills. This could be assured by means of pre-payment or guarantee by credit card (as the US does). Or taking out voluntarily insurance of your choice if available.

One exception: life threatening emergency care. That should be provided without talking about money and is done reciprocally by every country. You may not even be physically able to pre-pay when brought in in such cases.

But if it's made optional that comes with rights and duties.

It means that you will be informed of these rules before you travel. And it means that registration departments will start asking for money or guarantee upfront, and that non-(pre-)payment leads to no treatment and expulsion on the next flight (that you pay for yourself). We can't have it both ways.

And on the matter of Covid, it is a waste of time to discuss responsibilities. Whether you come in "clean" and catch the virus here doesn't matter. It is everyone's free choice to decide whether or not to come here in a pandemic and it's up to you to decide whether to go through hoops and take the risk. When you catch the virus and require treatment, you pay for it. Nobody put a gun to your head to come here.

Again, we are guests here. If you claim to have the means to take care of yourself, then you pay your way. Else you take insurance if available for you. But if you can do neither, you can't expect Thailand to pick up your bill or even take the risk of that happening.

@Bob20

[poohy]

Well that was enlightening do you sell  insurance or are you always as jovial as this

[JamesE]

On 9/10/2021 at 11:26 PM, Bob20 said:

But if it's made optional that comes with rights and duties.

Ha, ha, ha... You used "rights and duties" talking about people. People (as a mass) want easy and cheap. Just look at all the whining about the old requirements. Maybe just dump the whole insurance requirement and bring back debtor's prison. If you try to skip out on a medical bill, you get locked into the new terminal at Suvarnabhumi until you pay up. The inmates will be allowed high-speed internet access; but only to GoFundMe.

[Bob20]

13 minutes ago, JamesE said:

Ha, ha, ha... You used "rights and duties" talking about people. People (as a mass) want easy and cheap. Just look at all the whining about the old requirements. Maybe just dump the whole insurance requirement and bring back debtor's prison. If you try to skip out on a medical bill, you get locked into the new terminal at Suvarnabhumi until you pay up. The inmates will be allowed high-speed internet access; but only to GoFundMe.

It's an opinion, not a law-proposal.

I don't know how you see it, but in our own countries we wouldn't get away with it. I don't see why here we should. And if unpaid bills are what causes new regulations to be made, we shouldn't be surprised.

[Bob20]

4 hours ago, poohy said:

Well that was enlightening do you sell  insurance or are you always as jovial as this

Nothing to do with being jovial (or lack of it). I just don't see why we as foreigners should leech on a country in which we are guests. At home we wouldn't get away with it either.

[JamesE]

9 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

It's an opinion, not a law-proposal.

I don't know how you see it, but in our own countries we wouldn't get away with it. I don't see why here we should. And if unpaid bills are what causes new regulations to be made, we shouldn't be surprised.

Yeah, I agree with you. Everyplace I've traveled or lived there have always been foreigners there who "disagree" with the way things are. This can range from simple social things (my favorite being ketchup in The Bahamas) to the complicated entry and insurance requirements of Thailand. Regardless of what those issues are, some foreigners are always vociferous in their opposition usually to the point of not letting it go.

In my opinion, the opposition comes from not understanding the locals' worldview. They always b!tch and moan about the "what", and never stop to consider the "why". Sure, some of the things we see in Thailand are very puzzling, to say the least, but probably no less puzzling than, say, the rules regarding foreigners in Meiji Japan. And, while we can always see a better way of doing things, the reality on the ground is not that Thailand isn't looking to see what might be the best way to do things, it's that they can't because "our" obvious solutions are not within their worldview.

[Bob20]

1 minute ago, JamesE said:

Yeah, I agree with you. Everyplace I've traveled or lived there have always been foreigners there who "disagree" with the way things are. This can range from simple social things (my favorite being ketchup in The Bahamas) to the complicated entry and insurance requirements of Thailand. Regardless of what those issues are, some foreigners are always vociferous in their opposition usually to the point of not letting it go.

In my opinion, the opposition comes from not understanding the locals' worldview. They always b!tch and moan about the "what", and never stop to consider the "why". Sure, some of the things we see in Thailand are very puzzling, to say the least, but probably no less puzzling than, say, the rules regarding foreigners in Meiji Japan. And, while we can always see a better way of doing things, the reality on the ground is not that Thailand isn't looking to see what might be the best way to do things, it's that they can't because "our" obvious solutions are not within their worldview.

Sorry, I got a different impression from your earlier message. For me it's really quite simple: I'm allowed to live here and can make an assessment of whether the totality works for me. If so, I live by the rules my host sets. If not, then maybe I should make another choice.

[poohy]

7 hours ago, Bob20 said:

Nothing to do with being jovial (or lack of it). I just don't see why we as foreigners should leech on a country in which we are guests. At home we wouldn't get away with it either.

I know people that i went to school with in uk bleeding the country dry never ever worked in their lives and probably live a better life than meon benefits

Here people want easy and cheap unpaid bills are a minuscule and thais want to sell insurance not look after expats  they make life difficult and irritating enough without you helping them along

[Bob20]

11 minutes ago, poohy said:

I know people that i went to school with in uk bleeding the country dry never ever worked in their lives and probably live a better life than meon benefits

Here people want easy and cheap unpaid bills are a minuscule and thais want to sell insurance not look after expats  they make life difficult and irritating enough without you helping them along

I agree with you that it shouldn't happen in the UK either, but two wrongs don't make a right.

Don't worry, my personal opinion won't influence Thailand's policy one bit Besides, I suggested a choice of proof of the ability to pay or insurance. If the problem is minuscule as you say, then that is surely right.

[Stardust]

First you have to bring this discussion on ground of facts and the reality otherwise it is a useless discussion. Bob as often you see everything in Thailand from view as a westerner retiree and thinking this the majority of Thailand, you did this also on the discussions about the lockdown. We all can agree there must be a system for healthcare insurance for foreigners. But now to the facts and the reality! Western retirees or snowbirds are the smallest percentage of the foreigners living in Thailand, the majority are the working expats/foreigners! From this working foreigners are also a big part of lower income workers for example from Myanmar or Laos. I guess you have never been in a company or production in Thailand and not realize the key industries also from Europe, Japan ,etc. Also note the reality who have problems to get skilled workers in Thailand because of a failed education system. The reality the need and have to attract it from abroad otherwise they cannot operate, this they called to the government since a while but they are not competent enough to manage it and thinking all needed skilled workers are from the high end of income but the reality is the majority is from between. Sure there must be a solution like often mentioned like it is for example in Europes companies one system for insurance never mind native or foreigners. In your view you give a absolut wrong picture from where the unpaid bills are coming from. A big issue are the low income workers for example from Myanmar with often jobs with a high accidents. As you mention already for tourists from western they are covered fro travel insurances or their credit catd insurances. If you look into the facts the majority was from China, India and other countries. A big majority came from low budget tourists from China also you have to realize the gross net income from China is very low thats why it is listed as a development country. To discuss this important matter you have to do it on the facts and the reality of Thailand. And stop your view on things if you talk about foreigners in Thailand this make a serious discussion impossible realize first the reality and facts of Thailand. Your viewpoints are always from a small of minority of Thailand but you bring it as it is the majority and the reality of the majority in Thailand. But sure there is a mess and never brought up a workable system and this discussion is already a while but the mainpoint are not the retirees they are not the majority of this issue!