News Forum - Provinces added to OCT 1 Re-opening, Driving in Thailand and Vaccine Cocktail | Good Morning Thailand | Episode 86

[Maverick]

On 9/11/2021 at 12:02 AM, BeingFrank said:

Apparently South Africa is the worst country in the world when it comes to road accidents. The also have a very high ratio of road accident deaths which involved alcohol, with 57.5%, and had the second-highest number of road accident deaths too, with 25.9 per 100,000 people.

Thailand ranks second overall. They reported a frighteningly high number of deaths on the roads, with 32.7 per 100,000 people. Their relatively lenient drink-drive limit and poor roads  and maximum speed limit of 120 KPH were the principle reasons - along with the neglect of crash helmets on motorbikes, for both riders and passengers.

Mauritius is worse than South Africa, per capita, I lived in ZA for 20 years, never found it to be that bad, wouldn’t ride a motorbike there though not bike aware, Taxis are also a law unto themselves.

 

[Maverick]

On 9/11/2021 at 4:50 AM, TheDirtyDurian said:

Guess it all depends where you live in Thailand regarding driving. 

In 3 decades of either living in Thailand or visiting Thailand I can honestly say that I only ever paid a bribe when I did something wrong. Most of the time that would be driving over a bridge restricted for motorbikes in Bangkok, or no helmet occasionally. Also paid my way out of two drink driving counts, once in Sukhumvit and once near Silom. 

So the simple solution to me is to always make sure you can't be had over by ensuring you're legal, whatever form that takes, and especially in tourist areas where you're a target for the police. 

I've never come across extortion for driving legally. 

I read somewhere that 80% of fatalities on Thai roads come from motorbikes, so just by being in a car you improve your chances.

I also find the driving in Thailand quite relaxed compared to the Middle East where I'm based. 

Agreed, I drive a car here and ride a motorbike ( and a pushbike in Phuket) don’t have major issues, have to drive defensively unlike the Thai’s , and they are definitely more bike aware then many countries I have lived in especially in Africa. Anyone who thinks this is bad try driving in Lagos or Nairobi, the only saving grace there is traffic keeps speeds down. I also drove in China back in the 80’s and this is a picnic, things will improve here over time of that I am sure.

 

[cowslip]

1 hour ago, Bob20 said:

We have the figures on Sinovac. Even double jabbed it leaves you less protected than with other vaccines.

no we don't the work is still going on to decide how much protection erodes over time - in fact we don't even have enough time itself to draw any hard conclusions.

Initial protection figures are even questioned but the rate of efficacy decline is nowhere near ascertained.

 

[Bob20]

2 minutes ago, Khunwilko said:

no we don't the work is still going on to decide how much protection erodes over time - in fact we don't even have enough time itself to draw any hard conclusions.

Initial protection figures are even questioned but the rate of efficacy decline is nowhere near ascertained.

Are you one of the conspiracists that I hadn't noticed yet? Because you're talking nonsense.

We know exactly what happens after 6 months (Sinovac and AZ) and 6 and 9 months (Pfizer). The numbers are there in large scale studies. That is why we know we need boosters, which hadn't previously been anticipated so quickly.

I'll give you one link. The rest you can find yourself if you're seriously interested. Read up first next time.

https://doi.org/10.1038/d41586-021-02261-8

[AdamX]

2 hours ago, Bob20 said:

It's actually very true.

We have the figures on Sinovac. Even double jabbed it leaves you less protected than with other vaccines.

Besides, 2-jabs is not what you aim for. We talk about 2 jabs as that's when you are supposed to be protected. But we now know that effectiveness reduces over time. So, we don't look at how many jabs you've had anymore. We look at how many you've had AND how long ago.

You aim for adequate levels of protection and that is no longer the case for people who were jabbed 6 months or more ago. So you don't count their 2 jabs in the 70-75% as their protection is insufficient.

If anyone thinks that there will ever be an end to the 'need' for jabs, I have a bridge in Brooklyn id like to sell them.

This is playing out exactly as the conspiracy researchers predicted

[cowslip]

33 minutes ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

I guess our experiences differ then. And I repeat, in 3 decades of driving in Thailand I've only had to pay money when I've done something wrong.

Never had the police try to extort money from me for no reason. 

So I'm curious now. What were they saying you did when you paid for no reason? And where are you living at the time?

Personal experience is only a small part of the argent.

but - I have driven extensively all over Thailand (and Laos) starting in 1994 but mostly whilst living here from 2003. I was also a member of a 4WD club and work with many Thai drivers. I was able to gt a very good picture of what was going on from mostly Thai drivers not just foreigners. I also drove into Malaysia as far as Penang. I've owned cars in Europe, Australia, drive in North Africa and North America. I have full motorcycle license and all goods vehicle in uk - used to do extensive continental driving in Europe. I worked for a short  time for the road traffic engineer in a city in UK. I'm in a good position to compare driving in many parts of the world and have a good rounding in road safety theory.

During this time I had 2 4x4s sequentially and 2 motorcycles. I also used various hire vehicles. and company vehicles.

As time has passed I've had less and less problems with police.

however if you look at the system they use for collecting "fines" it is quite clearly outside the law and seldom involves the legal/court system - the receipts they started to give now are just a worthless piece of paper from a book that would disappear if ever officially needed. I have pid a fine to have my car decamped, I handed it over in the police station and th officer put it straight in his top pocket - we both laughed at this. BTW the clam ws doe in a parking area where to temporary sign was positioned after I parked there.

There is also the problem with foreign drivers don't have a clue about the Thai Highway Code and really wouldn't know if they had broken the law or not.

As mentioned the 5 Es all need to be addressed to improve road safety and ENFORCEMENT is just one part - the police re not properly trained in RTI assessment or traffic law - they are told to go out to a convenient checkpoint and look for one to wo particular offences.

A policeman's starting salary is around 5000 b per month - they have to buy there own motorcycle and gun even yet we hear of high-ranking officers on 40k per month who own 30 or so luxury cars. How do you you think they survive?

60 % of Thai people surveyed about 5 years ago believed that bribes and corruption worked positively for good - "oiling the wheels of bureaucracy". Thailand is unique in the ay that corruption works and many foreigners - even those who have been her for years fail to understand the full extent to which it is embedded in Thai society.

[WilliamG]

On 9/10/2021 at 10:27 PM, Khunwilko said:

out of tonsch with,

 simply from the wet rtes 

I seriously hope you put more effort into background research before you tackle other topics.

 

And you with your spelling.   LOL   555

[MrStretch]

Seriously not on to be knocking another poster, who obviously isn't a native speaker, for a few typos.

As for his "research" he seemed to be adding to the discussion following the post that he quoted.

[cowslip]

1 hour ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

I guess our experiences differ then. And I repeat, in 3 decades of driving in Thailand I've only had to pay money when I've done something wrong.

Never had the police try to extort money from me for no reason. 

So I'm curious now. What were they saying you did when you paid for no reason? And where are you living at the time?

I've lived in Chonburi and Koh Samui. I worked in Bkkk, Chonburi, Chachoengsao and Rayong provinces.

[semrand753]

53 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

Are you one of the conspiracists that I hadn't noticed yet? Because you're talking nonsense.

We know exactly what happens after 6 months (Sinovac and AZ) and 6 and 9 months (Pfizer). The numbers are there in large scale studies. That is why we know we need boosters, which hadn't previously been anticipated so quickly.

I'll give you one link. The rest you can find yourself if you're seriously interested. Read up first next time.

https://doi.org/10.1038/d41586-021-02261-8

 

 

The link you provided points to a news article (understandably, but it doesn't boost credibility).

The study behind that article is limited to the UK, and moreover it is limited to ChAdOx1 (AZ) and BNT162b2 (Pfizer). The first one is based on a standard adenovirus, the second one on mRNA, whereas CoronaVac just uses vero cells. If I was forced to group things, I'd also group AZ and CoronaVac, but it'd be an oversimplification. Furthermore, the report clearly states there are yet many unknowns. There are several more studies, but they're just about all in the peer-review stage.

I do tend to agree with your implied conclusion that "boosters are a good thing", but please don't claim that everything is known and that that knowledge is definite. It's not.

 

 

[Bob20]

51 minutes ago, semrand753 said:

The link you provided points to a news article (understandably, but it doesn't boost credibility).

The study behind that article is limited to the UK, and moreover it is limited to ChAdOx1 (AZ) and BNT162b2 (Pfizer). The first one is based on a standard adenovirus, the second one on mRNA, whereas CoronaVac just uses vero cells. If I was forced to group things, I'd also group AZ and CoronaVac, but it'd be an oversimplification. Furthermore, the report clearly states there are yet many unknowns. There are several more studies, but they're just about all in the peer-review stage.

I do tend to agree with your implied conclusion that "boosters are a good thing", but please don't claim that everything is known and that that knowledge is definite. It's not.

Thanks for doing khunwilko's work

Maybe you can find the other papers for him too?

In science we will never know everything, but we know everything we need to know to act, from a ridiculously large sample-base due to the vaccines being used large scale. And similar research is available for all vaccines.

It is not the case that we are uncertain whether effectiveness wanes as khunwilko said. It does. Even the effectiveness of natural immunity after surviving Covid wanes.

Everything else could be interesting, but is not relevant as reply to khunwilko's post.

[cowslip]

3 hours ago, semrand753 said:

The link you provided points to a news article (understandably, but it doesn't boost credibility).

The study behind that article is limited to the UK, and moreover it is limited to ChAdOx1 (AZ) and BNT162b2 (Pfizer). The first one is based on a standard adenovirus, the second one on mRNA, whereas CoronaVac just uses vero cells. If I was forced to group things, I'd also group AZ and CoronaVac, but it'd be an oversimplification. Furthermore, the report clearly states there are yet many unknowns. There are several more studies, but they're just about all in the peer-review stage.

I do tend to agree with your implied conclusion that "boosters are a good thing", but please don't claim that everything is known and that that knowledge is definite. It's not.

I would agree that boosters ae a good thing but as you pointed out the previous poster doesn't appear to have read the studies thoroughly.

If one just stands back and looks at numbers and time scale it is clear tat definitive comic;usions can't been claimed yet.

[cowslip]

4 hours ago, WilliamG said:

I seriously hope you put more effort into background research before you tackle other topics.

And you with your spelling.   LOL   555

the window for edit is very small - and frankly on a phone on a chat forum, it really doesn't matter that much to me

[cowslip]

5 hours ago, Bob20 said:

Are you one of the conspiracists that I hadn't noticed yet? Because you're talking nonsense.

We know exactly what happens after 6 months (Sinovac and AZ) and 6 and 9 months (Pfizer). The numbers are there in large scale studies. That is why we know we need boosters, which hadn't previously been anticipated so quickly.

I'll give you one link. The rest you can find yourself if you're seriously interested. Read up first next time.

https://doi.org/10.1038/d41586-021-02261-8

nope - but I am able to understand the methodology of medical research papers.

 

[Bob20]

Just now, Khunwilko said:

the window for edit is very small - and frankly on a phone on a chat forum, it really doesn't matter that much to me

Maybe you should choose more lighthearted topics if it doesn't matter that much to you and you clearly can't find or interpret research data.

[cowslip]

5 hours ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

I guess our experiences differ then. And I repeat, in 3 decades of driving in Thailand I've only had to pay money when I've done something wrong.

Never had the police try to extort money from me for no reason. 

So I'm curious now. What were they saying you did when you paid for no reason? And where are you living at the time?

Yes - I hear you but you don't seem to understand how worthless limited personal or anecdotal experience can be.

I do use my personal experience but I also use a much wider range than that. - I've also probably been driving considerably more than you in Thailand.

[Benroon]

5 hours ago, AdamX said:

If anyone thinks that there will ever be an end to the 'need' for jabs, I have a bridge in Brooklyn id like to sell them.

This is playing out exactly as the conspiracy researchers predicted

Its playing out exactly as the voices in your head are telling you. 

Conspiracy researcher - hahaha priceless

 

 

[Soidog]

8 hours ago, Khunwilko said:

Every now and then I've seen foreigners standing at the side of the road arguing their case - which is quite a pointless occupation and will usually end in tears.

I just pretend I don’t speak English. Hit them with a bit of German or Dutch and they realise they are wasting their time also. I’ve been stopped many times simply for being in the outside lane and the charge is I’m speeding. “Chan mai phud pha-sa angkrit” or “Phud angkrit mai dai” usually gets them to waive you on. I totally agree that it’s pointless standing around arguing the toss with them.

[TheDirtyDurian]

6 hours ago, Khunwilko said:

Personal experience is only a small part of the argent.

but - I have driven extensively all over Thailand (and Laos) starting in 1994 but mostly whilst living here from 2003. I was also a member of a 4WD club and work with many Thai drivers. I was able to gt a very good picture of what was going on from mostly Thai drivers not just foreigners. I also drove into Malaysia as far as Penang. I've owned cars in Europe, Australia, drive in North Africa and North America. I have full motorcycle license and all goods vehicle in uk - used to do extensive continental driving in Europe. I worked for a short  time for the road traffic engineer in a city in UK. I'm in a good position to compare driving in many parts of the world and have a good rounding in road safety theory.

During this time I had 2 4x4s sequentially and 2 motorcycles. I also used various hire vehicles. and company vehicles.

As time has passed I've had less and less problems with police.

however if you look at the system they use for collecting "fines" it is quite clearly outside the law and seldom involves the legal/court system - the receipts they started to give now are just a worthless piece of paper from a book that would disappear if ever officially needed. I have pid a fine to have my car decamped, I handed it over in the police station and th officer put it straight in his top pocket - we both laughed at this. BTW the clam ws doe in a parking area where to temporary sign was positioned after I parked there.

There is also the problem with foreign drivers don't have a clue about the Thai Highway Code and really wouldn't know if they had broken the law or not.

As mentioned the 5 Es all need to be addressed to improve road safety and ENFORCEMENT is just one part - the police re not properly trained in RTI assessment or traffic law - they are told to go out to a convenient checkpoint and look for one to wo particular offences.

A policeman's starting salary is around 5000 b per month - they have to buy there own motorcycle and gun even yet we hear of high-ranking officers on 40k per month who own 30 or so luxury cars. How do you you think they survive?

60 % of Thai people surveyed about 5 years ago believed that bribes and corruption worked positively for good - "oiling the wheels of bureaucracy". Thailand is unique in the ay that corruption works and many foreigners - even those who have been her for years fail to understand the full extent to which it is embedded in Thai society.

Whoopee doo. That's great for you, but you've basically just said one occasion that you got clamped where you say a sign appeared after you parked there. 

Don't get me wrong,  I've paid loads of bribes over the years, just never for no reason. 

 

[cowslip]

1 minute ago, Soidog said:

I just pretend I don’t speak English. Hit them with a bit of German or Dutch and they realise they are wasting their time also. I’ve been stopped many times simply for being in the outside lane and the charge is I’m speeding. “Chan mai phud pha-sa angkrit” or “Phud angkrit mai dai” usually gets them to waive you on. I totally agree that it’s pointless standing around arguing the toss with them.

The wrong lane is a classic......there is nothing you can actually do. Speeding with any camera is another of course. Apparently a lot of people have encountered to old boy on the toll gates on the M7.

however telling them you don't speak English is a waste of time when they don't either.

however if they think you might know their boss, ten that can be a different matter. 

As I said the amount of times I've been stopped gets less and less and I haven't paid out since about 2015. I used to leave 200 baht lying around but now don't even bother to do that anymore - there certainly have been a few public outcries about this sort of thing from middle-class Thais who are getting fed up with it all as the amount of vehicles and driving has increased.

 

BTW - the cops at the entrance to at Klong Toei are also very keen - just stand in the window of their box and count the money out in 20 notes and coin ..they soon say that's enough and give up.

[Andrew Reeve]

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