News Forum - Provinces added to OCT 1 Re-opening, Driving in Thailand and Vaccine Cocktail | Good Morning Thailand | Episode 86

[Thaiger]

In today’s episode Jay, Mike and Arina look at Provinces added to OCT 1 Re-opening, Driving in Thailand, Vaccine Cocktail and F1 motor racing. Aswell as news headlines in Thailand such as: Just days after defeating a vote of no-confidence, Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha has ousted Deputy Minister of Agriculture as well as Deputy Minister of Labour. The Ministry of Public Health is planning to launch a digital health pass platform to be used during air travel. In Phuket, 15 people were arrested on illegal gambling charges after police raided an alleged gambling den around midnight yesterday.

The post Provinces added to OCT 1 Re-opening, Driving in Thailand and Vaccine Cocktail | Good Morning Thailand | Episode 86 appeared first on Thaiger News.

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[Svcoquette]

I have been coming to Thailand on a tourist VISA for more than 10 years. Sometimes on my motorcycle from Malaysia and sometimes by plane or on my sailboat so then I rent a bike in Phuket. I am a 60+ white foreigner. I have frequently been stopped by the police. Even though I wear a helmut, have all the required documents including an international drivers license, the police still ask for a bribe, sorry "tea" money. They usually start off asking for 500 baht but usually come down to 200 baht. I keep 200 baht in my shirt pocket and take it out and say OK but I want a receipt. They say "no receipt", I then take out my phone hold out the money and say "OK I take picture for receipt". I keep my cool and show respect. The police usualy do the same and say "go". A few get angry. When I come from Malaysia on my bike I usually get stopped 3 or 4 times before reaching Phuket. The practice of targeting foreigners is widespread in Thailand. 

[Bob20]

55 minutes ago, Svcoquette said:

I have been coming to Thailand on a tourist VISA for more than 10 years. Sometimes on my motorcycle from Malaysia and sometimes by plane or on my sailboat so then I rent a bike in Phuket. I am a 60+ white foreigner. I have frequently been stopped by the police. Even though I wear a helmut, have all the required documents including an international drivers license, the police still ask for a bribe, sorry "tea" money. They usually start off asking for 500 baht but usually come down to 200 baht. I keep 200 baht in my shirt pocket and take it out and say OK but I want a receipt. They say "no receipt", I then take out my phone hold out the money and say "OK I take picture for receipt". I keep my cool and show respect. The police usualy do the same and say "go". A few get angry. When I come from Malaysia on my bike I usually get stopped 3 or 4 times before reaching Phuket. The practice of targeting foreigners is widespread in Thailand. 

You can pay 500 the first time and get a receipt. That's usually valid about 3 days

[Griff1315]

58 minutes ago, Svcoquette said:

I have been coming to Thailand on a tourist VISA for more than 10 years. Sometimes on my motorcycle from Malaysia and sometimes by plane or on my sailboat so then I rent a bike in Phuket. I am a 60+ white foreigner. I have frequently been stopped by the police. Even though I wear a helmut, have all the required documents including an international drivers license, the police still ask for a bribe, sorry "tea" money. They usually start off asking for 500 baht but usually come down to 200 baht. I keep 200 baht in my shirt pocket and take it out and say OK but I want a receipt. They say "no receipt", I then take out my phone hold out the money and say "OK I take picture for receipt". I keep my cool and show respect. The police usualy do the same and say "go". A few get angry. When I come from Malaysia on my bike I usually get stopped 3 or 4 times before reaching Phuket. The practice of targeting foreigners is widespread in Thailand. 

Don't have to worry at the moment the police aren't doing any roadside checks at least not around here they aren't.

One good thing that came from covid.

[Svcoquette]

Yesterday at Chalong circle I was waiting to walk across, 6 locals went by on bikes with no helmut, white foreigner, with helmut, was then stopped by police. So it's still going on!

[Bob20]

What was Helmut doing there?

[Bob20]

13 minutes ago, Griff1315 said:

Don't have to worry at the moment the police aren't doing any roadside checks at least not around here they aren't.

One good thing that came from covid.

Same here, I wish they would check masks instead. Probably not as profitable.

[cowslip]

Very disappointed in the conversation about driving in Thailand. You really needed to get someone better informed to comment. All you succeeded in doing was rolling out a load of archaic cliches about road safety.

It is significant that the authorities in Thailand for decades have been out of tonsch with, or ignored modern road safety science. This is exactly the position your pundits followed.

If you want to improve road safety it can be done, but it takes massive reform and it takes time - you can seen the results in the EU where death rates have come down to a tenth or twentieth of Thailand's.

BTW it is a basic mistake that right from the start people form they "opinions" on Thai roads simply from the wet rtes - this is not the only factor in road safety.

I seriously hope you put more effort into background research before you tackle other topics.

 

 

[BeingFrank]

Apparently South Africa is the worst country in the world when it comes to road accidents. The also have a very high ratio of road accident deaths which involved alcohol, with 57.5%, and had the second-highest number of road accident deaths too, with 25.9 per 100,000 people.

Thailand ranks second overall. They reported a frighteningly high number of deaths on the roads, with 32.7 per 100,000 people. Their relatively lenient drink-drive limit and poor roads  and maximum speed limit of 120 KPH were the principle reasons - along with the neglect of crash helmets on motorbikes, for both riders and passengers.

Edited September 10, 2021 by BeingFrank

[PapayaBokBok]

11 hours ago, Svcoquette said:

Yesterday at Chalong circle I was waiting to walk across, 6 locals went by on bikes with no helmut, white foreigner, with helmut, was then stopped by police. So it's still going on!

record it on your phone and make it viral...Like your receipt story!....I usually say my ID -atm card etc is in my GH room so I dont lose them and keep talking them to death all while smiling and being polite--in most cases they get tired of trying to speak english and wave me thru....Also photocopy my license so show I DO have ID but not the hard copy they will hold ransom, I suspect they have a stack of my copies down at the station! :)

[TheDirtyDurian]

Guess it all depends where you live in Thailand regarding driving. 

In 3 decades of either living in Thailand or visiting Thailand I can honestly say that I only ever paid a bribe when I did something wrong. Most of the time that would be driving over a bridge restricted for motorbikes in Bangkok, or no helmet occasionally. Also paid my way out of two drink driving counts, once in Sukhumvit and once near Silom. 

So the simple solution to me is to always make sure you can't be had over by ensuring you're legal, whatever form that takes, and especially in tourist areas where you're a target for the police. 

I've never come across extortion for driving legally. 

I read somewhere that 80% of fatalities on Thai roads come from motorbikes, so just by being in a car you improve your chances.

I also find the driving in Thailand quite relaxed compared to the Middle East where I'm based. 

[Soidog]

Although the roads are often blamed in Thailand, I still feel the real problem lies in no real road sense being instilled when learning to drive. Many people on the roads have never had a proper driving lesson in their life. The driving test is an utter joke, and laws such as drink driving are not enforced. It’s normal for police to wave through women drivers when they set up a drink driving check point, simply because they have nowhere safe to put them when arrested. 
 

Certainly the poor road marketing’s, poor lighting and poor road surface will all add to the accident count, but in my opinion much of the damage is already being done before the driver even takes to the road. 
 

The whole attitude towards drink driving in Thailand is some 40-50 years what it is in most developed countries. There is simply no peer pressure not to drink and drive. I see young kids driving motorbikes in the dark without a single light on. Surely these kids have parents who should be making sure they are safe? Again, simply doesn’t happen as most Thais believe lights on vehicles is for them to see the road, not other road users being able to see them. Start with the basic aspects of road safety and road awareness, add to it some basic courtesy to other road users and you will cut accidents by 50%. Dream on….

[gummy]

14 hours ago, Bob20 said:

What was Helmut doing there?

Looking for his Red Bull perhaps 

[cowslip]

On 9/10/2021 at 10:50 PM, TheDirtyDurian said:

I've never come across extortion for driving legally.

I've driven extensively in Thailand for over 20 years. To begin with, I got stopped a few times and paid out about 200 baht in cash. The more learned to speak Thai the less I was asked to pay....I was on several occasions stopped for an "imaginary offence" - as my Thai got better it become more humorous and less likely to be asked for money.

There used to be a cop who spent most of his day by t tolls booths on M7 going South of BKK who would run across to any booth he saw a foreigner in and claim they were "speeding as they approached the booths and then demand 1000 baht. unfortunately for him on the first 2 times he tried it with me I had middle class Thai professionals in the car with me who basically told him where to go  - on the third time  I just waived and drove off.

I've has even more absurd encounters but I won't bore you with them now.

 

I fine the main problem with driving in Thailand is with foreigners as they don't understand what is happening on the roads around them and think everybody should be driving like they do in their home country - except for themselves....they decide that THEY can drive with total disregard for not just the law but road safety.

 

The truth is that 80% of all casualties (if you must use that single statistic) are "vulnerable" road users - is includes motorcyclists and 3-wheelers (75% of all fatalities).

This actually means that if you are in a private 4 wheeled vehicle you are no more likely to die than on the roads of the USA.

Tip - if you find yourself compelled to host at other motorists or recounts single episodes of bad driving this is in fact confirmation bias and it is actually you who is out of step with how to drive on Thai roads.

There is a lot to be domne about road safety on Thai roads but it is sad to say that the most vociferous foreign critics actually don't have a clue as to what thy are talking about.

 

 

[cowslip]

On 9/11/2021 at 12:27 AM, Soidog said:

Although the roads are often blamed in Thailand, I still feel the real problem lies in no real road sense being instilled when learning to drive. Many people on the roads have never had a proper driving lesson in their life. The driving test is an utter joke, and laws such as drink driving are not enforced. It’s normal for police to wave through women drivers when they set up a drink driving check point, simply because they have nowhere safe to put them when arrested. 
 

Certainly the poor road marketing’s, poor lighting and poor road surface will all add to the accident count, but in my opinion much of the damage is already being done before the driver even takes to the road. 
 

The whole attitude towards drink driving in Thailand is some 40-50 years what it is in most developed countries. There is simply no peer pressure not to drink and drive. I see young kids driving motorbikes in the dark without a single light on. Surely these kids have parents who should be making sure they are safe? Again, simply doesn’t happen as most Thais believe lights on vehicles is for them to see the road, not other road users being able to see them. Start with the basic aspects of road safety and road awareness, add to it some basic courtesy to other road users and you will cut accidents by 50%. Dream on….

Roads in Thailand ae deceptively dreadful. There are 2 aspects - road design and construction, and traffic engineering.

As for construction the new roads being built are mostly death traps - they use poor quality materials, and infrastructure and encourage high speeds - there were only about 250 km of real motorway in the entire country - over roads are just "speedway". Now they have introduced a new 120 limit on many roads - the result of this won't be apparent until a year or so after Covid.

As for traffic engineering this is the positioning of signage and design of such things as lans=es and junctions.....in Europe people are totally unaware of the massive amount of research and science goes into this before it is carried out - in Thailand it appears to be scrawled in crayon on the back of a napkin..

 

road safety involves the "safe system" - this has been used for the past few decades in Europe and has Brough death rates per 100k down to single figures - the aim is ZERO - Thailand has persistently avoided tis - even though both Thai and ASEAN road safety bodies have advised this - until this happens there will be no significant reduction in the death toll in the foreseeable future.

[cowslip]

 

Roads in Thailand are deceptively dreadful. There are 2 aspects - road design and construction, and traffic engineering.

The "safe System' of road stay involves addressing 5 aspects of road safety

Engineering - that's both vehicles and roads

Education - Drivers of course but not just driving tests

Enforcement - this requires major reform of the police and legal system

Emergency - There is NO CENTRALIE EMERGENCY or ambulance service in Thailand

Evaluation - This sis vitally important and Thailand does almost nothing - it inc;udes on site scientific measurement of EVERY accident, I t also involves proper collection and collation of statistics. Thailand doesn't even collect full sets in internationally recognised categories.

Until ALL of this is addressed there will be no significant improvement

 

Roads -

As for construction the new roads being built are mostly death traps - they use poor quality materials, and infrastructure and encourage high speeds - there were only about 250 km of real motorway in the entire country - over roads are just "speedway". Now they have introduced a new 120 limit on many roads - the result of this won't be apparent until a year or so after Covid.

As for traffic engineering this is the positioning of signage and design of such things as lans=es and junctions.....in Europe people are totally unaware of the massive amount of research and science goes into this before it is carried out - in Thailand it appears to be scrawled in crayon on the back of a napkin..

 

road safety involves the "safe system" - this has been used for the past few decades in Europe and has Brough death rates per 100k down to single figures - the aim is ZERO - Thailand has persistently avoided tis - even though both Thai and ASEAN road safety bodies have advised this - until this happens there will be no significant reduction in the death toll in the foreseeable future.

 

[TheDirtyDurian]

5 hours ago, Khunwilko said:

I've driven extensively in Thailand for over 20 years. To begin with, I got stopped a few times and paid out about 200 baht in cash. The more learned to speak Thai the less I was asked to pay....I was on several occasions stopped for an "imaginary offence" - as my Thai got better it become more humorous and less likely to be asked for money.

There used to be a cop who spent most of his day by t tolls booths on M7 going South of BKK who would run across to any booth he saw a foreigner in and claim they were "speeding as they approached the booths and then demand 1000 baht. unfortunately for him on the first 2 times he tried it with me I had middle class Thai professionals in the car with me who basically told him where to go  - on the third time  I just waived and drove off.

I've has even more absurd encounters but I won't bore you with them now.

I fine the main problem with driving in Thailand is with foreigners as they don't understand what is happening on the roads around them and think everybody should be driving like they do in their home country - except for themselves....they decide that THEY can drive with total disregard for not just the law but road safety.

The truth is that 80% of all casualties (if you must use that single statistic) are "vulnerable" road users - is includes motorcyclists and 3-wheelers (75% of all fatalities).

This actually means that if you are in a private 4 wheeled vehicle you are no more likely to die than on the roads of the USA.

Tip - if you find yourself compelled to host at other motorists or recounts single episodes of bad driving this is in fact confirmation bias and it is actually you who is out of step with how to drive on Thai roads.

There is a lot to be domne about road safety on Thai roads but it is sad to say that the most vociferous foreign critics actually don't have a clue as to what thy are talking about.

So why did you pay if you did nothing wrong?

[voyager]

Arina: "Living in the past" ...erm... 28-day average COVID death rate peaked only at the end of last month, most provinces are still colour-coded red or dark-red, on a 28-day average ("distribution") in

https://ddc.moph.go.th/covid19-dashboard/?dashboard=main.

If you want to talk about "" the past", I'm sure your memory will stretch back to the beginning of July, when COVID death rates were a third of what they are now.

At current vaccination rates, the country could reach a 70% 2-dose target in 2 months from now, which would still leave us with a huge majority of "high season" left to go.

Why jump off a cliff now?

[cowslip]

4 hours ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

So why did you pay if you did nothing wrong?

If you need to ask that, you don't understand driving in Thailand.

If I had taken a confrontational stance, I would have been taken down the stone maybe eve overnight....paperwork wold have been endless and Would have faced trumped up charges plus a few extra ones. This would then have rumbled on for months.

I fit in serious circumstances  I had access to a "get out of jail free card" - but thank god I never needed to use that.

There are people who have lived in Thailand for years who simply don't understand the extent of corruption in everyday like here.

 

[cowslip]

Just now, Khunwilko said:

If you need to ask that, you don't understand driving in Thailand.

If I had taken a confrontational stance, I would have been taken down the stone maybe eve overnight....paperwork wold have been endless and Would have faced trumped up charges plus a few extra ones. This would then have rumbled on for months.

I fit in serious circumstances  I had access to a "get out of jail free card" - but thank god I never needed to use that.

There are people who have lived in Thailand for years who simply don't understand the extent of corruption in everyday like here.

 

If you need to ask that, you don't understand driving in Thailand.... or more to the point how Thailand works.

If I had taken a confrontational stance, I would have been taken down the stone maybe eve overnight....paperwork wold have been endless and Would have faced trumped up charges plus a few extra ones. This would then have rumbled on for months.

If it was in serious circumstances  I had access to a "get out of jail free card" - but thank god I never needed to use that in anger. But just a waive of that and the request would disappear.

There are people who have lived in Thailand for years who simply don't understand the extent of corruption in everyday like here.

the truth is that back in the day people who were stopped by police were not stopped because of a motoring offence, but because the police were on a money raising campaign. Usually the offences chosen were vague or dubious enough to make them impossible to defend. That's how they were selected. most motorists know the score and pay 100 to 3200 baht just to get on their way. Every now and then I've seen foreigners standing at the side of the road arguing their case - which is quite a pointless occupation and will usually end in tears.

[Bob20]

4 hours ago, voyager said:

Arina: "Living in the past" ...erm... 28-day average COVID death rate peaked only at the end of last month, most provinces are still colour-coded red or dark-red, on a 28-day average ("distribution") in

https://ddc.moph.go.th/covid19-dashboard/?dashboard=main.

If you want to talk about "" the past", I'm sure your memory will stretch back to the beginning of July, when COVID death rates were a third of what they are now.

At current vaccination rates, the country could reach a 70% 2-dose target in 2 months from now, which would still leave us with a huge majority of "high season" left to go.

Why jump off a cliff now?

70% having 2 jabs is setting the bar far too low, especially because of Delta being dominant and Sinovac being used. Also, 2 jabs is no longer the accepted rule as the antibody levels (obtained after vaccines from February/March/April) have already waned. These people are no longer sufficiently protected, so you can't include them in the percentage until they are boosted. Plus, you need to allow 2-3 weeks after reaching the percentage until reaching reasonable effectiveness as well.

So, the high season will be as good as over.

Plus, I wouldn't call it high season as 1) we're red-listed (and even if that was lifted in the coming months, people will have already made other plans by then), 2) the high season was in decline for years even before Covid.

If we open the country it is mainly for the Thai internal tourist market and only for a small part for foreigners. TAT's numbers have on each occasion been ludicrously overstated and proven wrong.

Let's get to 75% effective jabs first (so including boosters for the ones who were vaccinated earliest) and hold-off a few weeks after that.

Then open the country for everyone. That will instill confidence and this approach will also convince foreign governments to remove Thailand from their red-list.

[cowslip]

Just now, Bob20 said:

2 jabs is no longer the accepted rule

Actually this is not strictly true - some countries are arranging a "booster" jab but the figures indicate to reduction in protection is not that serious - there need to be more figures.

I personally think that in UK they will eventually decide on posters sometime in the winter. The main thing is to get s many as possible double jabbed.

[Bob20]

28 minutes ago, Khunwilko said:

Actually this is not strictly true - some countries are arranging a "booster" jab but the figures indicate to reduction in protection is not that serious - there need to be more figures.

I personally think that in UK they will eventually decide on posters sometime in the winter. The main thing is to get s many as possible double jabbed.

It's actually very true.

We have the figures on Sinovac. Even double jabbed it leaves you less protected than with other vaccines.

Besides, 2-jabs is not what you aim for. We talk about 2 jabs as that's when you are supposed to be protected. But we now know that effectiveness reduces over time. So, we don't look at how many jabs you've had anymore. We look at how many you've had AND how long ago.

You aim for adequate levels of protection and that is no longer the case for people who were jabbed 6 months or more ago. So you don't count their 2 jabs in the 70-75% as their protection is insufficient.

[voyager]

48 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

70% having 2 jabs is setting the bar far too low, especially because of Delta being dominant and Sinovac being used. Also, 2 jabs is no longer the accepted rule as the antibody levels (obtained after vaccines from February/March/April) have already waned. These people are no longer sufficiently protected, so you can't include them in the percentage until they are boosted. Plus, you need to allow 2-3 weeks after reaching the percentage until reaching reasonable effectiveness as well.

So, the high season will be as good as over.

Plus, I wouldn't call it high season as 1) we're red-listed (and even if that was lifted in the coming months, people will have already made other plans by then), 2) the high season was in decline for years even before Covid.

If we open the country it is mainly for the Thai internal tourist market and only for a small part for foreigners. TAT's numbers have on each occasion been ludicrously overstated and proven wrong.

Let's get to 75% effective jabs first (so including boosters for the ones who were vaccinated earliest) and hold-off a few weeks after that.

Then open the country for everyone. That will instill confidence and this approach will also convince foreign governments to remove Thailand from their red-list.

I agree with you... I was understating my case, just because I know much of the audience (and, maybe, The Thaiger...? ) has financial interests in the tourist industry.

It was just a compromise suggestion, to get them to think twice before gambling with lives... - maybe the lives of their employees and their families. 

[TheDirtyDurian]

1 hour ago, Khunwilko said:

If you need to ask that, you don't understand driving in Thailand.... or more to the point how Thailand works.

If I had taken a confrontational stance, I would have been taken down the stone maybe eve overnight....paperwork wold have been endless and Would have faced trumped up charges plus a few extra ones. This would then have rumbled on for months.

If it was in serious circumstances  I had access to a "get out of jail free card" - but thank god I never needed to use that in anger. But just a waive of that and the request would disappear.

There are people who have lived in Thailand for years who simply don't understand the extent of corruption in everyday like here.

the truth is that back in the day people who were stopped by police were not stopped because of a motoring offence, but because the police were on a money raising campaign. Usually the offences chosen were vague or dubious enough to make them impossible to defend. That's how they were selected. most motorists know the score and pay 100 to 3200 baht just to get on their way. Every now and then I've seen foreigners standing at the side of the road arguing their case - which is quite a pointless occupation and will usually end in tears.

I guess our experiences differ then. And I repeat, in 3 decades of driving in Thailand I've only had to pay money when I've done something wrong.

Never had the police try to extort money from me for no reason. 

So I'm curious now. What were they saying you did when you paid for no reason? And where are you living at the time?