News Forum - Vietnamese man gets 5 years in jail for spreading Covid

[gummy]

Just now, Bob20 said:

I wouldn't ask nor expect them to change their views. But when their posts turn into deliberate disinformation, in my opinion that should be addressed.

But deliberatly posting disinformation is almost guarenteed to get them a reponse from others so I suspect in most cases they adore the attention that they then receive which spurs them on.

[Bob20]

4 minutes ago, gummy said:

But deliberatly posting disinformation is almost guarenteed to get them a reponse from others so I suspect in most cases they adore the attention that they then receive which spurs them on.

This is exactly what I say to others that fall into the trap. But really, imho Thaiger ought to restrict deliberate disinformation (different from censorship) and not go for the "clicks". Even FB, YouTube and the like disallow it as nobody knows what to trust anymore.

[BlueSphinx]

52 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

I hear you mate - but as the saying goes: "you cant fix stupid."  Although, like yourself, I also like a challenge and I will often try to at least debate them.

But the truth of the matter is that although many are just not bright and would fall for many things (like rich Nigerians), there are a lot more that are not idiots, but are unknowingly suffering from 'cognitive bias'.  They genuinely think that their own views are totally correct and that others who disagree with them are 'idiots' for not being able to 'see' things how they see them.  There are many people who genuinely believe one or more of the following: That the Earth is flat, that the Moon landings were faked, that 5G is some sort of 'mind control', that some sort of Spiritual Entity dictates everything that happens in their life, that 9/11 was insid job (CIA), that Princes Diana was murdered, that JFK was killed by the CIA, that there are aliens being held in Area 51/Roswell, that Big Pharma created Covid to make money, etc etc etc. 

Cognitive Bias (CB) creates a method of thinking that makes people think irrationally when they get input (see, hear, read, feel) about something that they have already formed an opinion on.  People with CB create their own 'reality' and then interpret everything from their own perception of what is reality. Extremely religious people will state that a flower proves the existence of what they define as their 'God' and they genuinely believe that is true. If you put a Christian and a Muslim and a Catholic and a Jew and a Buddhist and a Sikh in the exact same situation - they will all view that situation from their own perception of reality, and they will all be different - some close, and some miles apart. 

Not that you and I have CB, and all the conspiracy nutters are correct of course   But we all have CB in some form or another - such as believing that one football team is the best - but some people take it to the extreme and believe that that all others are somehow 'bad' and the people who follow them are 'evil'. The issue with CB is that as humans we can create our own reality with our own minds, and we humans all do it.  So, the other day I asked my dog if Covid was as bad as they have been saying, because obviously dogs dont have the mind to create a false reality, and he said to me "woof". I didnt like that answer so I did this:

 

 

I appreciate your post and fully agree with the Cognitive Bias phenomenon you mention.  But I did not give it a Like for two reasons:

#1 - You wrote "But the truth of the matter is that although many are just not bright and would fall for many things (like rich Nigerians), there are a lot more that are not idiots, but are unknowingly suffering from 'cognitive bias'.  They genuinely think that their own views are totally correct and that others who disagree with them are 'idiots' for not being able to 'see' things how they see them."  My stance on this is that EVERYBODY 'suffers' from cognitive bias.  This simply because your views/opinions on any issue do not live in a vacuum, but are based on your life experience/knowledge/beliefs.  And your statement which implies that YOU are free from CB 'unlike the idiots that are not able to see things how you see them', is already a form of cognitive bias.

#2 - It's rather disingenuous to add Big Pharma created Covid to make money in a list of outer-worldly theories like flat-earth and fake moon-landings. I actually agree with the statement that they did not CREATE it. But by changing the word 'created' into 'used' Big Pharma used Covid to make money it is suddenly not so outer-worldly anymore.  And it is that what a 'conspiracy theorist' like myself is actually saying, obviously based on my personal cognitive bias.

[Bob20]

25 minutes ago, gummy said:

But deliberatly posting disinformation is almost guarenteed to get them a reponse from others so I suspect in most cases they adore the attention that they then receive which spurs them on.

 

37 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

Yep - blocking them is the only answer Bob.   Fortunately, TT is a forum that will never enforce moderation that demands Members change their views to suit the Mod's, or even the majority of Members.  So they are free to expose their rubbish here - but as long as they are ignored (like those pesky Jehova's), they will go to another forum where they get responses. 

Coincidentally today:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/07/virologist-work-anti-vaxxers-covid

Very interesting.

I see BS appeared too (although I don't see the text), but doubt the outspoken link will have any influence... He claims to be pro-choice, yet only represents one choice. The simple fact is that not everyone researches (or has the capacity to research). Deliberate disinformation, mostly accompanied by instilling fear and doubt, puts others at risk.

[BlueSphinx]

7 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

Coincidentally today:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/07/virologist-work-anti-vaxxers-covid

Very interesting.

I see BS appeared too (although I don't see the text), but doubt the outspoken link will have any influence... He claims to be pro-choice, yet only represents one choice. The simple fact is that not everyone researches (or has the capacity to research). Deliberate disinformation, mostly accompanied by instilling fear and doubt, puts others at risk.

I see @Bob20 appeared too (I can see his text, but cannot be bothered anymore reading his biased posts).

So our dialogue has become something resembling the famous painting by Alphonse ALLAIS 'Negroes Fighting in a Tunnel by Night' 

[BraveNewFahrenheit]

13 hours ago, Stonker said:

Yes.

No.

How many people did you spread the flu to in years past that ended up dyeing?

[Zool]

1 hour ago, AussieBob said:

I hear you mate - but as the saying goes: "you cant fix stupid."  Although, like yourself, I also like a challenge and I will often try to at least debate them.

But the truth of the matter is that although many are just not bright and would fall for many things (like rich Nigerians), there are a lot more that are not idiots, but are unknowingly suffering from 'cognitive bias'.  They genuinely think that their own views are totally correct and that others who disagree with them are 'idiots' for not being able to 'see' things how they see them.  There are many people who genuinely believe one or more of the following: That the Earth is flat, that the Moon landings were faked, that 5G is some sort of 'mind control', that some sort of Spiritual Entity dictates everything that happens in their life, that 9/11 was insid job (CIA), that Princes Diana was murdered, that JFK was killed by the CIA, that there are aliens being held in Area 51/Roswell, that Big Pharma created Covid to make money, etc etc etc. 

Cognitive Bias (CB) creates a method of thinking that makes people think irrationally when they get input (see, hear, read, feel) about something that they have already formed an opinion on.  People with CB create their own 'reality' and then interpret everything from their own perception of what is reality. Extremely religious people will state that a flower proves the existence of what they define as their 'God' and they genuinely believe that is true. If you put a Christian and a Muslim and a Catholic and a Jew and a Buddhist and a Sikh in the exact same situation - they will all view that situation from their own perception of reality, and they will all be different - some close, and some miles apart. 

Not that you and I have CB, and all the conspiracy nutters are correct of course   But we all have CB in some form or another - such as believing that one football team is the best - but some people take it to the extreme and believe that that all others are somehow 'bad' and the people who follow them are 'evil'. The issue with CB is that as humans we can create our own reality with our own minds, and we humans all do it.  So, the other day I asked my dog if Covid was as bad as they have been saying, because obviously dogs dont have the mind to create a false reality, and he said to me "woof". I didnt like that answer so I did this:

 

 

Well now you're showing your true colors. My last exchange with you, you pretended to be trying to "agree to disagree" and were somewhat polite.

I have never said anything about flat earth. I have never said anything about aliens. I am NOT an anti-vaxxer. I have every vaccine known to mankind because my work traveling all over the world requires some of them and I willingly got a bunch more that were not even required.

You and your crew have done nothing but mock and ridicule us, call us names, marginalize us etc. I had to block a few of your pals because they became so nasty that there was no point in even trying to talk to them. But you go ahead and misrepresent us, call us names, etc. 

 

[gummy]

4 minutes ago, Zool said:

Well now you're showing your true colors. My last exchange with you, you pretended to be trying to "agree to disagree" and were somewhat polite.

I have never said anything about flat earth. I have never said anything about aliens. I am NOT an anti-vaxxer. I have every vaccine known to mankind because my work traveling all over the world requires some of them and I willingly got a bunch more that were not even required.

You and your crew have done nothing but mock and ridicule us, call us names, marginalize us etc. I had to block a few of your pals because they became so nasty that there was no point in even trying to talk to them. But you go ahead and misrepresent us, call us names, etc. 

gentlemen, this can easily be settled - handbags at dawn 

[Stardust]

5 hours ago, Soidog said:

If there was a law passed by the various governments around the world and those laws are broken, then yes. That’s what laws are for. People should not break the law. If they don’t like the laws then remove the law makers. 

Comon SD we all could follow how they use covid to opress the people and to make laws and emergency decree to abuse the people and total control and rob the country and you know how difficult it is to get rid of this laws when everything is corrupt and have cangerooh courts. Please take both side of the medal and be objective because everybody could whitness what happened and it was about their greed, power abd fill their pockets and it was not about to protect and help the people from covid. All the laws they made were to protect themself and their status quo and the majority could whitness that. 

[Bob20]

1 hour ago, gummy said:

Just to divert slightly in your analogy of Jehovahs occassionally coming to your door, causing you annoyance then at least it is very occasional unlike Buddhists who consider daily ringing temple bells and turning on distorted speaker systems are a good idea or Muslims calling their sheep to prayer 5 times every day. At least you can tell the Jehovahs to F off and slam the door in their face. Now on the issue of wearing masks do Jehovahs approve of mask wearing does any one know ?

Apparently they have been disallowed/discouraged to go door-to-door in several states in the US, and have turned to using the phone.

I hope they don't use 5G mobiles

[AussieBob]

1 hour ago, Bob20 said:

I wouldn't ask nor expect them to change their views. But when their posts turn into deliberate disinformation, in my opinion that should be addressed.

But who is to judge what 'disinformation' is?  And where do you draw that line? By all means debate the issue, or block the member if they are a 'conspiracy nutter', but going down that path of censorship is the sort of them the Nazis did (and Facebook et al).  

[AussieBob]

1 hour ago, BlueSphinx said:

I appreciate your post and fully agree with the Cognitive Bias phenomenon you mention.  But I did not give it a Like for two reasons:

#1 - You wrote "But the truth of the matter is that although many are just not bright and would fall for many things (like rich Nigerians), there are a lot more that are not idiots, but are unknowingly suffering from 'cognitive bias'.  They genuinely think that their own views are totally correct and that others who disagree with them are 'idiots' for not being able to 'see' things how they see them."  My stance on this is that EVERYBODY 'suffers' from cognitive bias.  This simply because your views/opinions on any issue do not live in a vacuum, but are based on your life experience/knowledge/beliefs.  And your statement which implies that YOU are free from CB 'unlike the idiots that are not able to see things how you see them', is already a form of cognitive bias.

#2 - It's rather disingenuous to add Big Pharma created Covid to make money in a list of outer-worldly theories like flat-earth and fake moon-landings. I actually agree with the statement that they did not CREATE it. But by changing the word 'created' into 'used' Big Pharma used Covid to make money it is suddenly not so outer-worldly anymore.  And it is that what a 'conspiracy theorist' like myself is actually saying, obviously based on my personal cognitive bias.

You are assuming I think you are a conspiracy nutter @BlueSphinx - if you was (in my opinion) then I would have either blocked you or ignored you.  I dont agree with your views on some things, but a cognitively biased nutter you aint (IMO).  And yes - the big pharma are making big money out of covid - and so are most of the very wealthy people in the world.   

[Bob20]

1 minute ago, AussieBob said:

But who is to judge what 'disinformation' is?  And where do you draw that line? By all means debate the issue, or block the member if they are a 'conspiracy nutter', but going down that path of censorship is the sort of them the Nazis did (and Facebook et al).  

The nazi comparison isn't right. It's not about anyone imposing opinions or views.

It's about "verifiable false information which is intended to mislead"

No more, no less.

[AussieBob]

1 hour ago, Bob20 said:

Coincidentally today:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/07/virologist-work-anti-vaxxers-covid

Very interesting.

I see BS appeared too (although I don't see the text), but doubt the outspoken link will have any influence... He claims to be pro-choice, yet only represents one choice. The simple fact is that not everyone researches (or has the capacity to research). Deliberate disinformation, mostly accompanied by instilling fear and doubt, puts others at risk.

Again, I would caution claiming members here are doing any 'deliberate disinformation'.  Yes, there are 'studies' and 'reports' that have been manipulated by anti-vaxxers, and by vaxxers, but quoting those studies and reports that support one's views, is a long way from creating them deliberately to spread disinformation. 

[AussieBob]

31 minutes ago, Zool said:

Well now you're showing your true colors. My last exchange with you, you pretended to be trying to "agree to disagree" and were somewhat polite.

I have never said anything about flat earth. I have never said anything about aliens. I am NOT an anti-vaxxer. I have every vaccine known to mankind because my work traveling all over the world requires some of them and I willingly got a bunch more that were not even required.

You and your crew have done nothing but mock and ridicule us, call us names, marginalize us etc. I had to block a few of your pals because they became so nasty that there was no point in even trying to talk to them. But you go ahead and misrepresent us, call us names, etc. 

I would refer you to my last response to @BlueSphinx - there are degrees of anti-vaxxers. There are those like you guys that espouse a view that is reasonable, but which I do not agree with in terms of your conclusions. And then there are those that go way over the top (the conspiracy nutters).  

[Yinn]

34 minutes ago, Zool said:

etc. I had to block a few of your pals

 

10 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

or block the member if they are a 'conspiracy nutter',

Ppfffft

Block member talk on internet is over sensitive.

Really?

why care what somebody on the internet say? 
 

Be strong!!! Only words. 

Some call Yinn prostitute, dumb, hairy bum, have penis etc. 

I laugh the idiot. I am adult.

 

 

[Bob20]

2 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

Again, I would caution claiming members here are doing any 'deliberate disinformation'.  Yes, there are 'studies' and 'reports' that have been manipulated by anti-vaxxers, and by vaxxers, but quoting those studies and reports that support one's views, is a long way from creating them deliberately to spread disinformation. 

I would say, once it's been exposed and their use is repeated time after time regardless of knowing better, it's not accidental anymore.

[AussieBob]

4 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

The nazi comparison isn't right. It's not about anyone imposing opinions or views.

It's about "verifiable false information which is intended to mislead"

No more, no less.

But it is about which opinion is used to decide what is 'false information intended to mislead', and what is just information taken out of context, and what is information that is correct, and what is information that was correct and no longer is.  That is the issue - who or what decides - the Nazis made that call themselves which was everything they said was true and anything said against that was punished.

Given that most American and European media organisations have in the last decade taken a very partisan approach to the news, then it is very hard to decide which one is telling the 'truth'. Therefore, people gravitate towards those media organisations that portray the news in the 'flavour' that best suits their own opinions - and claim they are 'correct'  (Fox or CNN come to mind).  And social media to that situation, whereby anyone can send anything to lots of people.  There you have the current situation about what is real and what is fact checked and what is total rubbish. 

[BlueSphinx]

10 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

But it is about which opinion is used to decide what is 'false information intended to mislead', and what is just information taken out of context, and what is information that is correct, and what is information that was correct and no longer is.  That is the issue - who or what decides - the Nazis made that call themselves which was everything they said was true and anything said against that was punished.

Given that most American and European media organisations have in the last decade taken a very partisan approach to the news, then it is very hard to decide which one is telling the 'truth'. Therefore, people gravitate towards those media organisations that portray the news in the 'flavour' that best suits their own opinions - and claim they are 'correct'  (Fox or CNN come to mind).  And social media to that situation, whereby anyone can send anything to lots of people.  There you have the current situation about what is real and what is fact checked and what is total rubbish. 

A little bit off-topic but continuing on the dis-information topic.  Where on the gliding scale from honest-but-incorrect over overly-optimistic-misguided to deliberate dis-information would you place Vaccine-Pope Fauci? 

Here a chronological overview of some of the public statements he made addressing the vaccine-solution for the covid-crisis from Nov 2020 till just recently. 

 

Moving target The end of Covid is nigh, thanks to the miracle of vaccines. Just ask Dr. Anthony Fauci. Then ask him again. And again. And... Alex Berenson Sep 7 Hedge fund managers sometimes joke the stock market has predicted nine of the last five recessions. And then there’s Anthony Fauci. Here he is on Nov. 12, 2020 - just after Pfizer released the first data showing its vaccines were 90-plus percent effective (don’t ask at what):   Can you be more specific, doc? He sure could. A month later:   If America’s Doctor (TM) says it, you can believe it! Maybe. Three months later - in March 2021, about when we were supposed to be hitting herd immunity - we were a mere four to six months away! Woke math is the best.   And here we are, in late summer, heading for early fall. Pandemic’s gotta be over, right? Let’s partaaaay! Hot Vaxxed Fall! Yeah, about that…   It’s almost as if the vaccines aren’t helping at all. Almost. But that can’t be right.

 

[Bob20]

42 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

But it is about which opinion is used to decide what is 'false information intended to mislead', and what is just information taken out of context, and what is information that is correct, and what is information that was correct and no longer is.  That is the issue - who or what decides - the Nazis made that call themselves which was everything they said was true and anything said against that was punished.

Given that most American and European media organisations have in the last decade taken a very partisan approach to the news, then it is very hard to decide which one is telling the 'truth'. Therefore, people gravitate towards those media organisations that portray the news in the 'flavour' that best suits their own opinions - and claim they are 'correct'  (Fox or CNN come to mind).  And social media to that situation, whereby anyone can send anything to lots of people.  There you have the current situation about what is real and what is fact checked and what is total rubbish. 

We disagree here. The nazi's imposed their views and at the same time would enforce compliance. That's not what I'm advocating at all.

Example:

On the CCC section, there was an article: "Ivermectin now available to all Covid-19 patients in Japan". I thought that was highly suspicious, verified it with the Japanese Medical Association and was told that a small number of doctors In Tokyo of a subdivision of the medical association have been allowed to do a clinical study amongst strictly selected patients and only if they give their express consent.

They have subsequently changed the title of the topic, formulating it as a question: "Should Ivermectin be made available to all Covid-19 patients in Japan?", telling me that it's not because of my input (surprise, as if they would admit to that), but because the content is better served with a different title.

They should have recognised that before choosing the deliberately misleading and verifiably false initial title, and it is my opinion that that wasn't chosen accidentally. The content would be even better served by for example "Ivermectin available to a few selected patients in a trial in part of Tokyo". But that doesn't serve their agenda!

This is the type of thing I'm talking about. And it shouldn't be you or me fighting for this. Why else do they have rule 16 in the FG's?

[BlueSphinx]

13 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

We disagree here. The nazi's imposed their views and at the same time would enforce compliance. That's not what I'm advocating at all.

Example:

On the CCC section, there was an article: "Ivermectin now available to all Covid-19 patients in Japan". I thought that was highly suspicious, verified it with the Japanese Medical Association and was told that a small number of doctors In Tokyo of a subdivision of the medical association have been allowed to do a clinical study amongst strictly selected patients and only if they give their express consent.

They have subsequently changed the title of the topic, formulating it as a question: "Should Ivermectin be made available to all Covid-19 patients in Japan?", telling me that it's not because of my input (surprise, as if they would admit to that), but because the content is better served with a different title.

They should have recognised that before choosing the deliberately misleading and verifiably false initial title, and it is my opinion that that wasn't chosen accidentally. The content would be even better served by for example "Ivermectin available to a few selected patients in a trial in part of Tokyo". But that doesn't serve their agenda!

This is the type of thing I'm talking about. And it shouldn't be you or me fighting for this. Why else do they have rule 16 in the FG's?

@Bob20 > Your example is an ill-chosen one!  

The OP that starts a thread does NOT have the rights to change the title of the thread once he created it.  So your 'conspiracy theory' that "they" (referring to those in favor of using IVM as preventive/curative remedy for covid-19) changed the initial title because of it being 'deliberately misleading and verifiably false' and then exposed by you, is utter nonsense.

A simple look at the bottom of the page in that thread shows that on 28 August the title was changed by moderator @Smithydog

 

• Aug 28 Smithydog changed the title to Should Ivermectin be made available to all Covid-19 patients in Japan?

 

[dmacarelli]

16 hours ago, billywillyjones said:

So you agree with a five year sentence for this?  Can't taxpayers money be better spent?

Well, the commies tend to be a bit extreme. Five years seems a bit draconian. But, some sort of punishment, or consequences, yes. Something. I am not a big advocate of crowding up the prison system. There are far more creative solutions, many of which I cannot discuss on this forum. 

 

 

[SnapDragon]

4 hours ago, AussieBob said:

There are many people who genuinely believe one or more of the following: That the Earth is flat, that the Moon landings were faked, that 5G is some sort of 'mind control', that some sort of Spiritual Entity dictates everything that happens in their life, that 9/11 was inside job (CIA), that Princes Diana was murdered, that JFK was killed by the CIA, that there are aliens being held in Area 51/Roswell, that Big Pharma created Covid to make money, etc etc etc. 

Interesting post Mr Bob.

If I could Sir: One point at a time.

There are many that do believe that the "Earth is flat,,". The augments of the proponents are fascinating; mostly based of the curvature of the earth.

"Moon landings,,"; a great topic for debate. Millions believe that the scenes where the guys are walking about on the moon were shot underwater. Can see tiny bubbles in one of the shots. Just six weeks before the first launch there was a trial landing with the same craft in Nevada. It was a complete and catastrophic failure. Don't think they would risk it so soon afterwards.

"5G,,"!? First trialed by the US military back in the 1970s. It has a devastating effect on the negativity of red blood cells. Can cause clotting and inhibit the transfer of oxygen around the blood-vascular system. "Mind control"; for sure, too much electromagnetic disturbance of the body can lead to brain dysfunction; and worse.

"Spiritual Entity,,"! God perhaps! There are a few believers in he/she. Quite a few!

The evidence is out there on "9/11". For all to see. Need to say more? Only that it's the 20th anniversary this coming Saturday.

"Princes Diana was murdered." Mr Mohamed Al Fayed (Dodi's* father), said on UK radio, more than once, that it was Prince Philip and the secret services of France and MI6 behind the deed.

"JFK was killed by the CIA,,". The guy that actually shot one of the rounds that killed the president, was on the radio quite recently telling the whole story. Massively suppressed by the authorities; naturally.

"Area 51," is quite secret. The X-files suggest that there are funny things going on there. But who knows?

"Big Pharma created C-19 to make money." The evidence now points towards DARPA, and specifically Fort Detrick; and Porton Down - UK's research facility - is also involved. But involved in what? Gain-of-function? Developing bio-weapons! To what end? To crash the Chinese economy and rescue the US dollar? The C-19 fraud was simply an opportunist step for the string-pullers of this world.

Instead of just a blanket acceptance of these occurrences - as promoted by authorities Mr Bob - I suggest you research the topics individually. Each would be a great debate for TT. Could I throw in the 'suicide' of Dr David Kelly and the 'Skripals' mystery?

Fresh threads await. Let's get to it!!!!!!

* Princess Di's lover.

Edited September 8, 2021 by snapdragon

[gummy]

3 minutes ago, snapdragon said:

Interesting post Mr Bob.

If I could Sir: One point at a time.

There are many that do believe that the "Earth is flat,,". The augments of the proponents are fascinating; mostly based of the curvature of the earth.

"Moon landings,,"; a great topic for debate. Millions believe that the scenes where the guys are walking about on the moon were shot underwater. Can see tiny bubbles in one of the shots. Just six weeks before the first launch there was a trial landing with the same craft in Nevada. It was a complete and catastrophic failure. Don't think they would risk it so soon afterwards.

"5G,,"!? First trialed by the US military back in the 1970s. It has a devastating effect on the negativity of red blood cells. Can cause clotting and inhibit the transfer of oxygen around the blood-vascular system. "Mind control"; for sure, too much electromagnetic disturbance of the body can lead to brain dysfunction; and worse.

"Spiritual Entity,,"! God perhaps! There are a few believers in he. Quite a few!

The evidence is out there on "9/11". For all to see. Need to say more; only that it's the 20th anniversary this coming Saturday.

"Princes Diana was murdered." Mr Mohamed Al Fayed (Dodi's* father), said on UK radio, more than once, that it was Prince Philip and the secret services of France and MI6 behind the deed.

"JFK was killed by the CIA,,". The guy that actually shot one of the rounds that killed the president was on the radio quite recently telling the whole story. Massively suppressed by the authorities; naturally.

"Area 51," is quite secret. The X-files suggest that there are funny things going on there. But who knows?

"Big Pharma created C-19 to make money." The evidence now points towards DARPA, and specifically Fort Detrick and Porton Down - UK's research facility - is also involved. But involved in what? Gain-of-function? Developing bio-weapons! To what end? To crash the Chinese economy and rescue the US dollar? The C-19 fraud was simply an opportunist step for the string-pullers of this world.

Instead of just a blanket acceptance of these occurrences - as promoted by authorities Mr Bob - I suggest you research the topics individually. Each would be a great debate for TT. Could I throw in the 'suicide' of Dr David Kelly and the 'Skripals' mystery?

Fresh threads await. Let's get to it!!!!!!

* Princess Di's lover.

Should be an interesting debate but perhaps start a seperate thread from this one ?

[Bob20]

8 minutes ago, snapdragon said:

Interesting post Mr Bob.

If I could Sir: One point at a time.

There are many that do believe that the "Earth is flat,,". The augments of the proponents are fascinating; mostly based of the curvature of the earth.

"Moon landings,,"; a great topic for debate. Millions believe that the scenes where the guys are walking about on the moon were shot underwater. Can see tiny bubbles in one of the shots. Just six weeks before the first launch there was a trial landing with the same craft in Nevada. It was a complete and catastrophic failure. Don't think they would risk it so soon afterwards.

"5G,,"!? First trialed by the US military back in the 1970s. It has a devastating effect on the negativity of red blood cells. Can cause clotting and inhibit the transfer of oxygen around the blood-vascular system. "Mind control"; for sure, too much electromagnetic disturbance of the body can lead to brain dysfunction; and worse.

"Spiritual Entity,,"! God perhaps! There are a few believers in he. Quite a few!

The evidence is out there on "9/11". For all to see. Need to say more; only that it's the 20th anniversary this coming Saturday.

"Princes Diana was murdered." Mr Mohamed Al Fayed (Dodi's* father), said on UK radio, more than once, that it was Prince Philip and the secret services of France and MI6 behind the deed.

"JFK was killed by the CIA,,". The guy that actually shot one of the rounds that killed the president was on the radio quite recently telling the whole story. Massively suppressed by the authorities; naturally.

"Area 51," is quite secret. The X-files suggest that there are funny things going on there. But who knows?

"Big Pharma created C-19 to make money." The evidence now points towards DARPA, and specifically Fort Detrick and Porton Down - UK's research facility - is also involved. But involved in what? Gain-of-function? Developing bio-weapons! To what end? To crash the Chinese economy and rescue the US dollar? The C-19 fraud was simply an opportunist step for the string-pullers of this world.

Instead of just a blanket acceptance of these occurrences - as promoted by authorities Mr Bob - I suggest you research the topics individually. Each would be a great debate for TT. Could I throw in the 'suicide' of Dr David Kelly and the 'Skripals' mystery?

Fresh threads await. Let's get to it!!!!!!

* Princess Di's lover.

Different Bob here

Each and every one of your points is an assumption against consensus. Let's talk when you have evidence rather than an example, suspicion or disbelief.