News Forum - Proof of vaccine might be needed to enter “high risk” stores in shopping centres

[HappyExpat]

  On 9/7/2021 at 12:11 PM, riclag said:

Very well said!  I’m fed up with the people who still insist that every social injustice  is justified  when it comes to vaccinations ,especially now that the vaxers can give the poison.

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It's not "every social injustice." It's not a conspiracy of healthcare workers around the planet joining with governments to enslave all the populace. It's a life threatening disease which has brought the world to its knees. The same thing happened with polio.

"Vaccination has always been a lightning rod for storms brewing over other problems, as physiologist and science writer Jonathan Berman shows. The people who protested against mandatory smallpox vaccination in nineteenth-century England had previously led opposition to the 1834 Poor Law Amendment Act, which proposed that unemployed people must labor in workhouses for food, often under conditions of exploitation, child labor and family separation. The protesters saw mandatory vaccination as a similar assault on poor people’s autonomy. After examining the rise of such opposition in England, Berman turns to the US experience in the twentieth and early twenty-first centuries."

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02671-0

Eventually people came together to rid the earth of polio.

I understand the mistrust of media which has a sordid past, especially over the last few decades, but c'mon - this stuff is killing people or leaving those who live through it without the vaccine devastating illnesses.

We need to stop the senseless bickering and come together to beat this thing as history has shown us.

[HappyExpat]

  On 9/7/2021 at 12:29 PM, Stonker said:

That's a little disappointing.  It shouldn't matter who disagrees   with you if they  show that what you thought was true was incorrect.

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No, when I post something that is based on science and you disagree with it then that's "CCC" arena.

[Faraday]

  On 9/7/2021 at 12:47 PM, HappyExpat said:

Vaccination has always been a lightning rod for storms brewing over other problems, as physiologist and science writer Jonathan Berman shows. The people who protested against mandatory smallpox vaccination in nineteenth-century England had previously led opposition to the 1834 Poor Law Amendment Act, which proposed that unemployed people must labor in workhouses for food, often under conditions of exploitation, child labor and family separation. The protesters saw mandatory vaccination as a similar assault on poor people’s autonomy. After examining the rise of such opposition in England, Berman turns to the US experience in the twentieth and early twenty-first centuries."

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Do you really think the opposition to Smallpox vaccinations from 200 years ago, is a valid comparison to Corona vaccinations.....?

[HappyExpat]

  On 9/7/2021 at 1:19 PM, Faraday said:

Do you really think the opposition to Smallpox vaccinations from 200 years ago, is a valid comparison to Corona vaccinations.....?

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Yes I do. The same arguments against Polio vaccinations are being used today.

[Stonker]

  On 9/7/2021 at 11:28 AM, HappyExpat said:

Actually there is plenty of scientific evidence supporting a lower transmission rate among the vaccinated. No actual evidence to the contrary - unless you have some at hand?

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I've already referenced the two Israeli studies, and Johns Hopkins and the CDC from last month, and the opening paragraph from your own link clearly doesn't support what you've claimed.

What you're now doing is making a Russell's teapot / the moon's made of cheese argument, which isn't "science" but petulance.

  On 9/7/2021 at 12:48 PM, HappyExpat said:

No, when I post something that is based on science and you disagree with it then that's "CCC" arena.

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But it's not "based on science", or if it is then you're unable to produce it.

That isn't even worthy of the " "CCC" arena".

  On 9/7/2021 at 12:47 PM, HappyExpat said:

We need to stop the senseless bickering and come together to beat this thing as history has shown us

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Well, while I agree with your sentiments I have to say you're probably not doing a very good job of that.

[HappyExpat]

  On 9/7/2021 at 1:49 PM, Stonker said:

I've already referenced the two Israeli studies, and Johns Hopkins and the CDC from last month, and the opening paragraph from your own link clearly doesn't support what you've claimed.

What you're now doing is making a Russell's teapot / the moon's made of cheese argument, which isn't "science" but petulance.

But it's not "based on science", or if it is then you're unable to produce it.

That isn't even worthy of the " "CCC" arena".

Well, while I agree with your sentiments I have to say you're probably not doing a very good job of that.

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You go right ahead and talk yourself and your co-conspirators into an early grave or lifelong hardships.

[Faraday]

  On 9/7/2021 at 1:27 PM, HappyExpat said:

Yes I do. The same arguments against Polio vaccinations are being used today.

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Those arguments against Polio vaccinations were from 50 years ago.

Since then, many other vaccines have been developed & used globally, without those "same arguments" being used.

[Stonker]

  On 9/7/2021 at 1:59 PM, HappyExpat said:

You go right ahead and talk yourself and your co-conspirators into an early grave or lifelong hardships.

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You really aren't doing your appeal to "stop the senseless bickering and come together to beat this thing as history has shown us" any favours.

[panhunger]

Vaccines do not prevent spread of the virus. Passports make no sense. When policy makes not sense, it forces one into conspiracy theories. Help!

Edited September 7, 2021 by panhunger

[Bob20]

  On 9/7/2021 at 2:21 PM, panhunger said:

Vaccines do not prevent spread of the virus. Passports make no sense. When policy makes not sense, it forces one into conspiracy theories. Help!

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And here's all your mates trying to convince everyone you're not conspiracists but "pro-choicers".

Busted...

Oh, and surprise, nobody forces anything, especially if you always claim free choice.

[Convert54]

Perhaps it  is  logical for Thailand considering the amount of claimed inappropriate allocation of vaccines to the "elite " given that they are  more likely to have retained a significant degree of "retail therapy" capacity enhanced by the absence of "inferior" unemployed  window shoppers who wistfully await compliant  vaccination outside the doors and in sad compensation only reveling in the occasional escaping blast of cold air as they watch the (self) assumed pinnacle members of Thai society smugly yet apparently blissfully ramble in and out of the automated doors. ?

All will go home to eat  cake..yes?

[Stonker]

  On 9/7/2021 at 1:27 PM, HappyExpat said:

The same arguments against Polio vaccinations are being used today.

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  On 9/7/2021 at 2:09 PM, Faraday said:

Those arguments against Polio vaccinations were from 50 years ago.

Since then, many other vaccines have been developed & used globally, without those "same arguments" being used.

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Unusually, @Faraday, we're in complete agreement and @HappyExpat's grasp of history seems to be on a par with his grasp of "science".

Apart from hesitancy after a major production error that led to 40,000 cases of polio, with 200 paralyzed and 10 dead, there were no "arguments" against the polio vaccine to be "the same".

Smallpox, a hundred and fifty years before, 'yes', but not polio.

[Stonker]

  On 9/7/2021 at 2:21 PM, panhunger said:

Vaccines do not prevent spread of the virus. 

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They were never intended to - if they had done that would simply have been a bonus, as it might be if they can be improved.

  On 9/7/2021 at 2:21 PM, panhunger said:

Passports make no sense.

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It depends on what they're intended to do - rather like vaccines. 

  On 9/7/2021 at 2:21 PM, panhunger said:

When policy makes not sense, it forces one into conspiracy theories. Help!

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Maybe you can "help" yourself, by looking at what the vaccines and vaccine passports were intended to do.

[Faraday]

  On 9/7/2021 at 2:49 PM, Stonker said:

Unusually, @Faraday, we're in complete agreement and @HappyExpat's grasp of history seems to be on a par with his grasp of "science".

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Yes, it's actually quite pleasant to agree with you - no sarcasm intended or implied. 

HE's posts made feel as if I'd had an Out of Body Rxperience, as they seem - to put it politely: wrong.

Bearing in mind that he is a mod, I wonder if our posts will remain.....

[Alavan]

  On 9/7/2021 at 10:02 AM, Griff1315 said:

I for one would love everyone  to be vaccinated it's the best way out of this mess. Having said that it shouldn't be allowed to discriminate against those who have not been vaccinated either by their own choice, total lack of good vaccines or medical reasons.

Discrimination is never right under any circumstances.

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Not vaccinated in France and some other EU countries you have access to retaurants, pubs etc if you show a recent (not more than 48 hours old) PCR-test. It will be mentionned in the sa

[Alavan]

  On 9/7/2021 at 10:02 AM, Griff1315 said:

I for one would love everyone  to be vaccinated it's the best way out of this mess. Having said that it shouldn't be allowed to discriminate against those who have not been vaccinated either by their own choice, total lack of good vaccines or medical reasons.

Discrimination is never right under any circumstances.

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The EU app also shows if you are recently tested (48 hours) or have had covid. You may also enter restaurants, pubs etc in France or some other countries by showing this.
So no discrimination at all. No vaccination... test.

[Stonker]

  On 9/7/2021 at 3:33 PM, Faraday said:

Yes, it's actually quite pleasant to agree with you - no sarcasm intended or implied. 

HE's posts made feel as if I'd had an Out of Body Experience, as they seem - to put it politely: wrong.

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Yes, a strange feeling ... I never thought I'd be complimenting @BS for doing his research properly, and I've never been called a "co-conspirator" before ... ...

  On 9/7/2021 at 3:33 PM, Faraday said:

Bearing in mind that he is a mod, I wonder if our posts will remain.....

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[Stonker]

  On 9/7/2021 at 4:32 PM, Alavan said:

The EU app also shows if you are recently tested (48 hours) or have had covid. You may also enter restaurants, pubs etc in France or some other countries by showing this.

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Now that seems eminently sensible and very fair.

[Andrew Reeve]

  Quote

  On 9/7/2021 at 2:49 PM, Stonker said:

  2 hours ago, Stonker said:

Unusually, @Faraday, we're in complete agreement and @HappyExpat's grasp of history seems to be on a par with his grasp of "science".

Yes, it's actually quite pleasant to agree with you - no sarcasm intended or implied. 

HE's posts made feel as if I'd had an Out of Body Rxperience, as they seem - to put it politely: wrong.

Bearing in mind that he is a mod, I wonder if our posts will remain.....

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Hi @Faraday, @Stonker

HappyExpat ceased been a mod; before they wrote their posts in this thread and as long as you show your reasons as to why you have a difference of opinion with another member, there would be no issues.

[Faraday]

  On 9/7/2021 at 5:28 PM, Stonker said:

Yes, a strange feeling ... I never thought I'd be complimenting @BS for doing his research properly, and I've never been called a "co-conspirator" before ... ..

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You'll be 'one of us' soon enough brother. Standing on the picket line, stopping the scabs from going inside.

*Please note, for the deaf & hard of hearing, this posts may contain nuts - or even, sarcasm*

[Faraday]

 Anyway, HE, I didn't appreciate that your second paragraph quote of post # 53656, was written by Johnathan Berman, a bowtie wearing PhD.

If he thinks that the smallpox vaccination 'activism' of 1802 & similar to Polio objections in the 1950's, is the same as this Covid stuff, he must surely, be off his head.

We are living in completely different times, where people are considerably better educated & informed.

@HappyExpat

[AlexPTY]

Seems quite reasonable, of cause it's not official and may never be. Cleaning AC every 3 months would not hurt anyways. I would suggest to test pub and bar staff for STD as well, like it's done in Philippines

[gummy]

  On 9/8/2021 at 2:28 AM, AlexPTY said:

Seems quite reasonable, of cause it's not official and may never be. Cleaning AC every 3 months would not hurt anyways. I would suggest to test pub and bar staff for STD as well, like it's done in Philippines

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Coincidentally this just running on BBC suggests cases are down

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58474438

[AlexPTY]

  On 9/8/2021 at 2:30 AM, gummy said:

Coincidentally this just running on BBC suggests cases are down

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58474438

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spot on!

[SnapDragon]

  On 9/7/2021 at 12:47 PM, HappyExpat said:

It's a life threatening disease which has brought the world to its knees. The same thing happened with polio.

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With respect Mr HappyExpat; who says ""it's a life threatening disease,,,"" Only those with an agenda IMO.

"",,,brought the world to its knees."" It's Governments that have brought the world to its knees, not some imaginary virus that is rampaging around the world.

""The same thing happened with polio."" This is nonsense Sir.