Renting a car for a trip to Khao Yai

[Stonker]

5 hours ago, TukTuk said:

Not bad advice it is trueful advice. I have rented cars from Avis numerous times at Suvarnabhumi Airport, sometimes racking up thousands a miles per trip. American Express tells you DO NOT sign for Avis insurance. 

In the event of an accident American Express will cover ALL damage.

Now it seems too bad you cannot quality for an American Express Platinum Card or you would already know this.

I actually took the time to check the small print in the Amex Platinum insurance policy, and I suggest you do the same as you evidently haven't done so.

Amongst other limitations, not only is it not valid if you're driving illegally, but it also excludes any damage to any other vehicle or any injuries to anyone not in the rented car, so even if you have a valid licence that's a long way short of "ALL damage".

As summarised very clearly:

"The Amex Platinum Card will cover you if your rental car is damaged or stolen. It does NOT cover liability, damage to other vehicles, or injuries to people in other vehicles".

From Amex, direct:

https://www.americanexpress.com/us/credit-cards/features-benefits/policies/car-rental-loss-and-damage-insurance-terms.html

[Stonker]

18 minutes ago, bushav8r said:

I would tend to agree with Stonker on this and many other issues.  He has the time, resources and intelligence to research and back up his claims.  There are always ways to to get things  done that may not be entirely legal, and discussing these options may contribute to the discussion.  No need for name calling or insulting each others intelligence.

Thanks, I'm flattered, but checking these things isn't difficult and as I'm a bit of a car nut and I've had Thai licences and been driving here for thirty years it didn't take much time and even less intelligence just to confirm things.

[bushav8r]

14 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Thanks, I'm flattered, but checking these things isn't difficult and as I'm a bit of a car nut and I've had Thai licences and been driving here for thirty years it didn't take much time and even less intelligence just to confirm things.

You do check though, as opposed to going off half-cocked.   People can be  easily offended and resort to personal attacks.

[ConsoleCowboy]

On 9/10/2021 at 11:39 PM, Stonker said:

Now who do I believe?

You, or the US Embassy in Bangkok who very clearly state that: "An international driving license is accepted as long as it is valid, but a foreign license is not accepted in Thailand." ?

If you are driving just on a US licence in Thailand you will be driving illegally as you don't have a valid licence.

NO insurance will cover you if you are driving without a valid licence. Period.

Yours is incredibly bad and dangerous advice, and that's putting it very mildly.

In Thailand the IDP is useless and even with it police will still want money, the only thing the police accept is a Thai License.

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, ConsoleCowboy said:

In Thailand the IDP is useless and even with it police will still want money, the only thing the police accept is a Thai License.

If that's happened to you then you've either been very unlucky and ripped off, you were on a Non Imm or similar visa rather than a Tourist,  or it was before all police checkpoints had to be supervised by an Inspector.

[HolyCowCm]

10 hours ago, Stonker said:

Correct, @HCC, but there's probably not much point in trying to explain anything to someone who thinks that English is one of the two official languages in Thailand.

You just can't make up that sort of ignorance.

An insurance company may pay out if you're not licenced as they may not check if you're driving legally or not, but I think you'd be very foolish to take that sort of risk unnecessarily, and the rules are very clear with no room for any interpretation.

Edit:

It may be worth adding that the problem isn't the penalty for driving without a valid licence or insurance since the penalties are so absurdly low (IIRC, officially only 500 baht) but the potential cost of an accident if uninsured.

The biggest problem anyone would encounter is if they injured or killed someone, and that can also be settled with out much problem with money. Other than that, I posted a link coming directly from the horses mouth that being the UK Royal Thai Embassy. Anyway with that said because TIT it is very easy to go rent a vehicle with a standard DL with not so much problem. Doesn't make it legal but is no problem and I think one of the most important things they do is take a copy of your passport for the info back up. I had a friend rent a car several years back here in CM doing it with his DL from the USA.

[Stonker]

9 hours ago, bushav8r said:

You do check though, as opposed to going off half-cocked.   People can be  easily offended and resort to personal attacks.

I'm sure that in most cases those posting complete misinformation here and elsewhere honestly believe what they say, but it doesn't take much checking to know that English isn't an official / national language in Thailand, but the Amex insurance was an eye-opener. 

I'm sure @TukTuk genuinely thought that "American Express tells you DO NOT sign for Avis insurance. In the event of an accident American Express will cover ALL damage", but the reality if you check their policy is that they DON'T tell you not to sign for "Avis insurance", or any other, but just not to pay for their Collision Damage Waiver as Amex covers the CDW if they pay for the rental.

Very, very different as the CDW doesn't cover "ALL damage" but only covers damage to / theft of the rental car, plus very minimal cover for passengers in the rental car, and then only if you have a valid licence anyway  - nothing for anyone else or any other vehicles involved.

It's only "secondary" (supplementary) insurance, not full, and to be fair Amex spell that out very clearly (in bold, not in small print). 

The problem is someone reading the post may take it at face value and think they've got full insurance world-wide when at best all they've got is a CDW and at worst, unless they've got a valid licence, they've got nothing and they're driving illegally.

One of the cars I've had here was eighty years old (seventy when I had it) so insurance was a problem which is why I've had to look into it before.

Back on topic, though, there are some excellent posts and very valid points by many here, including yours:

1. Renting a car / minibus with a driver is easy and cheap, particularly at the moment.

2. Driving on the "wrong" side of the road can be very dangerous if you're not used to it.

3. An IDP is easy to get from most countries, but of only limited value and validity.

4. A Thai driving licence is easy to get, without a driving test if you have a foreign licence, and it can be useful to avoid dual pricing and as proof of ID and address.

 

 

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, HolyCowCm said:

The biggest problem anyone would encounter is if they injured or killed someone, and that can also be settled with out much problem with money. Other than that, I posted a link coming directly from the horses mouth that being the UK Royal Thai Embassy. Anyway with that said because TIT it is very easy to go rent a vehicle with a standard DL with not so much problem. Doesn't make it legal but is no problem and I think one of the most important things they do is take a copy of your passport for the info back up. I had a friend rent a car several years back here in CM doing it with his DL from the USA.

Agreed entirely, @HCC - "no problem" but "not legal" .

The rental companies, whether Hertz and Avis or Somchai, also have themselves covered even if they rent telling you in writing that you're"fully insured", as there's always a clause tucked away in the rental agreement where you say that you've got a valid licence so it's not their fault when it all goes pear shaped.

[HolyCowCm]

30 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Agreed entirely, @HCC - "no problem" but "not legal" .

The rental companies, whether Hertz and Avis or Somchai, also have themselves covered even if they rent telling you in writing that you're"fully insured", as there's always a clause tucked away in the rental agreement where you say that you've got a valid licence so it's not their fault when it all goes pear shaped.

probably. 

[TukTuk]

19 hours ago, Stonker said:

I actually took the time to check the small print in the Amex Platinum insurance policy, and I suggest you do the same as you evidently haven't done so.

Amongst other limitations, not only is it not valid if you're driving illegally, but it also excludes any damage to any other vehicle or any injuries to anyone not in the rented car, so even if you have a valid licence that's a long way short of "ALL damage".

As summarised very clearly:

"The Amex Platinum Card will cover you if your rental car is damaged or stolen. It does NOT cover liability, damage to other vehicles, or injuries to people in other vehicles".

From Amex, direct:

https://www.americanexpress.com/us/credit-cards/features-benefits/policies/car-rental-loss-and-damage-insurance-terms.html

We are talking about insurance renting a car. To cover YOU and your passengers for any damage YOU cause, as the renter. Why in the world do you think it would cover YOU causing an accident?

If a professional rental car company such as Avis rents you a car, then obviously they have their own liabilities and wouldn't rent to an illegal driver now would they?

As mentioned previously, land in Bangkok, rent a car at Avis with US License, deny their insurance, any claims to damage I CAUSE while the car is in my possession is covered by Amex Platinum as stated.

Pretty simple. You can read what ever you want to about what YOU think is a legal driver and what Avis actually rents to as a legal driver.

Find your own coverage, what works for ME obviously you cannot manage to do on on your own. Maybe for you better to trust a Thai rental car company and they find out how to manage on with them when you do return a car with damage?

 

 

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, TukTuk said:

We are talking about insurance renting a car. To cover YOU and your passengers for any damage YOU cause, as the renter. Why in the world do you think it would cover YOU causing an accident?

Why in the world do I think car insurance would cover YOU causing an accident?

Are you serious?

Because that's the legal minimum that car insurance is required to do - to cover you for damage, injury and death to third parties if you cause an accident.

If you don't understand that, you shouldn't be driving and renting a car let alone advising others here on car insurance.

Amex doesn't cover that, it only covers the Collision Damage Waiver plus a minimal amount for injuries for those in the rental car. Nobody else and nothing else - no third party insurance, which is the minimum legal requirement.

1 hour ago, TukTuk said:

If a professional rental car company such as Avis rents you a car, then obviously they have their own liabilities and wouldn't rent to an illegal driver now would they?

If you don't tell them that you're driving illegally, without a valid licence, and you sign to say that you have a valid licence which is standard in any rental contract here, why not?

Their car's fully insured as there's a CDW and the car will be insured for damage anyway, and they have no liability for any accident you cause as you've told them you have a valid licence so any responsibility for an accident you cause is yours, not theirs.

1 hour ago, TukTuk said:

As mentioned previously, land in Bangkok, rent a car at Avis with US License, deny their insurance, any claims to damage I CAUSE while the car is in my possession is covered by Amex Platinum as stated.

Well, that's your view but it isn't Amex's which couldn't be clearer, stating in bold and in italics that it's limited secondary insurance only, only for a CDW,  and doesn't cover any third party insurance apart from injuries to those in the rental car for up to a maximum of $2,000. 

The Amex Platinum policy spells it out:   https://www.americanexpress.com/us/credit-cards/features-benefits/policies/car-rental-loss-and-damage-insurance-terms.html

Common sense would also tell most people that a card that costs less than $700 a year isn't going to give anyone free unlimited car rental insurance for a year as a perk.

1 hour ago, TukTuk said:

Find your own coverage, what works for ME obviously you cannot manage to do on on your own. Maybe for you better to trust a Thai rental car company and they find out how to manage on with them when you do return a car with damage

Unfortunately for anyone else on the road, what you think works for you doesn't work and anyone taking your advice could  have a very large bill.

A Collision Damage Waiver isn't car insurance, as Amex spell out, and if you can't understand that you shouldn't be on the road.

 

 

[JamesE]

11 hours ago, Stonker said:

4. A Thai driving licence is easy to get, without a driving test if you have a foreign licence, and it can be useful to avoid dual pricing and as proof of ID and address.

See, there are always places we can agree.

[Marc26]

3 hours ago, TukTuk said:

We are talking about insurance renting a car. To cover YOU and your passengers for any damage YOU cause, as the renter. Why in the world do you think it would cover YOU causing an accident?

If a professional rental car company such as Avis rents you a car, then obviously they have their own liabilities and wouldn't rent to an illegal driver now would they?

As mentioned previously, land in Bangkok, rent a car at Avis with US License, deny their insurance, any claims to damage I CAUSE while the car is in my possession is covered by Amex Platinum as stated.

Pretty simple. You can read what ever you want to about what YOU think is a legal driver and what Avis actually rents to as a legal driver.

Find your own coverage, what works for ME obviously you cannot manage to do on on your own. Maybe for you better to trust a Thai rental car company and they find out how to manage on with them when you do return a car with damage?

AMEX may cover you but you would still have to pay for the damage and submit a claim to AMEX

The foreign rental car company wouldn't just wait for AMEX to pay it

 

I have similar coverage with my CC and use that when I rent in the US/Canada.

But when in a foreign country I pay for the full insurance with no deductible, which in Thailand doesn't amount to too much anyways 

I don't want the hassle of having to pay out of my pocket in a foreign country 

[Stonker]

45 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

AMEX may cover you but you would still have to pay for the damage and submit a claim to AMEX

If the only "damage " you're talking about is damage to the rental car then you're 100% correct and this is clearly spelt out in the policy.

You would have to pay Avis for any damage to the rental car yourself, and then submit your claim to Amex.

That's a minor problem, though, compared to having little or no insurance if you've had an accident involving anyone else, or if someone else has hit you, and you've relied on Amex to insure you for free.

The ONLY damage Amex will pay for is damage to the rental car.

Nothing else.

Amex will NOT cover you for any third party damage or costs. Their policy is very clear, I've linked to it twice, and they make it crystal clear that theirs is ONLY secondary insurance, ONLY a Collision Damage Waiver.

The reviews of the card confirm this beyond any possible doubt:

"The Amex   Platinum Card will cover you if your rental car is damaged or stolen. It does NOT cover liability, damage to other vehicles, or injuries to people in other vehicles".

I don't know how to make this any clearer so people here aren't misled.

 

[Marc26]

4 hours ago, Stonker said:

If the only "damage " you're talking about is damage to the rental car then you're 100% correct and this is clearly spelt out in the policy.

You would have to pay Avis for any damage to the rental car yourself, and then submit your claim to Amex.

That's a minor problem, though, compared to having little or no insurance if you've had an accident involving anyone else, or if someone else has hit you, and you've relied on Amex to insure you for free.

The ONLY damage Amex will pay for is damage to the rental car.

Nothing else.

Amex will NOT cover you for any third party damage or costs. Their policy is very clear, I've linked to it twice, and they make it crystal clear that theirs is ONLY secondary insurance, ONLY a Collision Damage Waiver.

The reviews of the card confirm this beyond any possible doubt:

"The Amex   Platinum Card will cover you if your rental car is damaged or stolen. It does NOT cover liability, damage to other vehicles, or injuries to people in other vehicles".

I don't know how to make this any clearer so people here aren't misled.

Yes I am aware it doesn't cover liability 

 

The rental company used to point that out to you when you declined their coverage to use your CC coverage 

I've noticed the last couple of years, they no longer point that out

They just have you initial that you declined coverage

I don't know what prompted that change 

[AussieBob]

WOW - quite a debate was opened up about that one !!

My advice to the OP is to do what @NCC1701Aadvised and not hire a car in Thailand just for one trip when you are used to driving on the 'wrong' side of the road. 

For all others who drive on the 'right' side of the road and are looking to rent a car in Thailand as either a tourist or a new arrival, is to not do that unless your licence is in English - and get an IDP (they cost SFA).  Whether it is really needed or not - get one. Because the issue is not about being able to drive, it is about having issues with the Rental Company and/or their Insurance Company in the case of an accident.  If you dont have an IDP then it might be a problem that the renmtal comp[any and/or insurance company will try to use against any claim - they dont follow the 'rules' here - and do you really want to stay in Thailand for months so you can appear in a Court to argue about that?

If you live in Thailand, then in most Provinces it is a simple matter to get a Thai driving licence and then you dont need an IDP. Go in and ask them at your local office what you will need (take the Thai wife/GF/BF) - it varies at each Office (there is that rules issue again - Thais do not always follow them).  You will probably need a signed copy of your driving licence (in colour and sign in blue - dont ask) and a resident certificate (Immigration) and some proof of address (Lease, Yellow Book, Blue?) - but what else is needed (if anything) is a local issue. If it is like Chiang Mai (and if still the same now) that was all that was needed - plus a quick eye site test.

But here is the key thing I would like to advise about is a credit card.  You will need a credit card for the 'deposit' - the larger companies will not accept cash. But do not give them a credit card that has a big limit. If you do have an accident and they claim you are at fault (true or not), the policy details will usually state that they can charge your credit card with the total amount of 'estimated damages'. That has occurred to a few people (allegedly) - and I checked out the fine print and it is true that it could happen technically. Good luck getting that refunded when you are back on home soil - and good luck with the negotiations even if living in Thailand. What I do is that I have a credit card with a $5000 limit - so the most they could put on the card is that amount. It has never happened to me, but better safe than sorry.  Plus there are some smaller rental companies in the Provinces that will take a cash deposit - the cars are not as good, and be aware that the rental company may not have actually fully insured them so dont be speeding or drinking if you have an accident (and never admit to the Police anything).