Should I use a lawyer to buy a condo in BKK

[RobertCan]

I am shopping for a condo in BKK.  I am in North America now but before I purchase will visit to see the actual unit.  I have been told that the real estate agent handles the sale/transfer.  I am concerned about  ensuring there is no fraud and that the unit is lawfully transferred.  Should I get a Thai lawyer?

 

Thanks,

R

[King Cotton]

2 hours ago, RobertCan said:

I am shopping for a condo in BKK.  I am in North America now but before I purchase will visit to see the actual unit.  I have been told that the real estate agent handles the sale/transfer.  I am concerned about  ensuring there is no fraud and that the unit is lawfully transferred.  Should I get a Thai lawyer?

Thanks,

R

Though I'm not qualified to advise on property issues, I can tell you that several other TT members and my colleague @Smithydogare clued-up in this area and will probably soon come to your aid.   And this, your debut post, too, so many thanks for that!

Hello, RobertCan and welcome to Thaiger Talk

Please feel free to tell us a bit about yourself in 'Introductions'. It's good to pick-up on those sometimes differing regional or geographical perspectives.

And check-out the Guidelines, too, when you get a free minute. They're there to help us all enjoy our time here.       https://thethaiger.com/forum-guidelines-and-rules

Happy posting

King Cotton

[Guest1]

I am concerned about  ensuring there is no fraud and that the unit is lawfully transferred.  Should I get a Thai lawyer?

Using aThai lawyer, to ensure that there is no fraud? Interesting idea!

[Lowseasonlover]

Buyer Beware is the saying, Definitely dont let a real estate agent do the transfer for you 

Answer to your question, Get a lawyer

[Lowseasonlover]

If you are thinking of buying a new unit from a developer then normally they do everything in house, companies like Sansiri who do that,

Edited September 6, 2021 by Lowseasonlover

[KaptainRob]

Be very very cautious as many condo units are going begging due to covid travel restrictions and over-supply.

My neighbour Mike has been caught out with one project stopped and the developer fleeing to Europe and to make matters worse Mike's other 2 rental condo's have been empty for over a year.

We purchased distressed land from a mortgagee and subsequently met the English lady who had owned the land.  Story went like this: Annie lived and worked in Bangkok so she hired a Bangkok lawyer to handle the purchase of 4 rai of land with house under her company name.  Lawyer did not process the transfer correctly and subsequently on-sold whilst pocketing the proceeds.  Taken to civil court, eventually, he was ordered to repay a paltry monthly sum ... which Annie never rec'd.

Hire a reputable law firm and do due diligence on building/unit condition, defects, body corporate etc. 

[gummy]

33 minutes ago, KaptainRob said:

Be very very cautious as many condo units are going begging due to covid travel restrictions and over-supply.

My neighbour Mike has been caught out with one project stopped and the developer fleeing to Europe and to make matters worse Mike's other 2 rental condo's have been empty for over a year.

We purchased distressed land from a mortgagee and subsequently met the English lady who had owned the land.  Story went like this: Annie lived and worked in Bangkok so she hired a Bangkok lawyer to handle the purchase of 4 rai of land with house under her company name.  Lawyer did not process the transfer correctly and subsequently on-sold whilst pocketing the proceeds.  Taken to civil court, eventually, he was ordered to repay a paltry monthly sum ... which Annie never rec'd.

Hire a reputable law firm and do due diligence on building/unit condition, defects, body corporate etc. 

The biggest issue is with what you rightly say KaptainRob and that is finding a reputable law firm. They do exist of course but one has to be careful. Even ones with foreign connections have been known to be dubious as well as some started by foreign lawyers whom have started their own practices in Thailand, much like cowboy builders from the West coming here as "builders" so there are cowboy lawyers too.

But @RobertCan then as @Lowseasonlover suggests buying one from a reputable developer would be the wisest choice in your curcumstance I should think and also do your homework on the developer, many fly-by-nights  to be wary of too. Property developers in Thailand seemed to have learned their sales technics from the Time share scammers in Spain and the Canaries of the the 1970/80s

[RobertCan]

Thanks, the process seems quite daunting. I wanted to buy a place already built to avoid the fly by night developer.  I really wish there was a more secure way. 

Seems like you guys think introducing a lawyer could make it more risky,

How about if I went with a reputable real estate agent like Remax or Century 21?

 

[shanghailoz]

Why are you in such a rush to buy?

Prices will not be heading down, not up.

[Lowseasonlover]

32 minutes ago, RobertCan said:

Thanks, the process seems quite daunting. I wanted to buy a place already built to avoid the fly by night developer.  I really wish there was a more secure way. 

Seems like you guys think introducing a lawyer could make it more risky,

How about if I went with a reputable real estate agent like Remax or Century 21?

I think we all know a dodgy lawyer or two

[RobertCan]

18 minutes ago, shanghailoz said:

Why are you in such a rush to buy?

Prices will not be heading down, not up.

I am not sure if prices will go up or down. I think after covid it will go up. I guess there is an over supply. 

 

[shanghailoz]

Just now, RobertCan said:

I am not sure if prices will go up or down. I think after covid it will go up. I guess there is an over supply. 

There is a definite glut of oversupply.

Tenanted rates are low, and will be for the next year at the very least.

I would rather suggest rent, and look, vs buy currently.  
The market will have plenty of bargains as illiquid owners look to liquidate.

[Smithydog]

@RobertCan there has been some excellent advice provided already on this topic for you to consider. I'll just add a couple for you as well.

1. Understand that Thailand loves paper in its bureaucracy, which may be very different from what you are used to. Always retain copies of the paperwork you submit and remember, many of these may be written in Thai. Don't be surprised if you are asked for more and more and for copies in both English and Thai. The interpretation of laws can vary between offices and officials, many sadly who may be after "tea money" to expedite things for you. Making it harder by asking for more and more is a common method used to set you up to get an official to "help" expedite the process for you.

2. Use the same common sense you would use when dealing in your own country. For example, it is good to have people you choose to use able to fluently speak both Thai and English, assuming that is you native language, to translate anything for you clearly. That way you can judge if it sounds right. 

3. Never sign any blank documents. Too often it is common practice for you to be asked to sign a blank document and they will fill it out later. Whilst it is true this is sometimes done so not to waste your time, it does leave you wide open!

4. Understand the title of the property you are purchasing and your rights. Thai condominiums are often sold as a 30 year leasehold, which may included renewal options or not and which may or may not be enforceable by a foreign buyer. Others are sold as freehold. Condominium blocks often contain units sold both ways. The onus is on you to understand not the seller as they are only interested in getting the sale which is what they are required to do. No different to any other country!

5. Be prepared. Have questions you want answered ready to go to use when needed. Many lawyers in Thailand are the same as their foreign counterparts in that they charge by the hour. So sometimes the better prepared you are, the shorter the interview and the less cost to you!

Hope that helps

Smithydog

[Guest1]

11 hours ago, KaptainRob said:

 

[...] Story went like this: Annie lived and worked in Bangkok so she hired a Bangkok lawyer to handle the purchase of 4 rai of land with house under her company name.  Lawyer did not process the transfer correctly and subsequently on-sold whilst pocketing the proceeds.  [..]

Ok, just my2c to buying Land in Thailand, without a Thai to put the titel on:

Do it with the bloody SCB and finance minimum 70%!!

I am not in the actual details anymore, and it would be too much to write, anyway. Go ask in the SCB, perhaps SCB Bangkok, if yours is a small one somewhere in the north or east!

But about 15 years ago, there your local SCB did the paperwork with the singapore branch of the SCB. You got all the papers to sign in Thailand, you deposit enough in SCB-Spore for the loan, the 70% is the bank TILL YOU PAY the last baht, you are the 30%, no need for a costy company (scam?). And the best thing: This bank isn't going to scam you out of your land and house. Ok usually!

Oh: And they organize ALL legal paperwork IN Thailand, too! My 'guess': They have their own lawyers!

I don't think that has changed much. In Covid times they assumingly would be very happy about some new buyers!

[MikeT]

You would be better off buying a property in US and using the rental income to pay for rent on a decent place in Thailand.

Condos are going from bad to worse and you still have to kowtow to the juristic outfits which are always looking for ways to grab some extra cash.

 

[Guest1]

8 hours ago, Smithydog said:

 

5. Be prepared, the shorter the interview and the less cost to you!

 

Client: You are charging 300$ for 3 questions?

Lawyer: Yes

C: Isn't that expensive

L: Yes. And your third question?

[Shark]

Should I use a lawyer - off-course your trying to buy something in a foreign country.

On 9/6/2021 at 7:26 PM, Guest1 said:

But about 15 years ago, there your local SCB did the paperwork with the singapore branch of the SCB. You got all the papers to sign in Thailand, you deposit enough in SCB-Spore for the loan, the 70% is the bank TILL YOU PAY the last baht, you are the 30%, no need for a costy company (scam?). And the best thing: This bank isn't going to scam you out of your land and house. Ok usually!

sorry but, this is confusing how do you see a company as a scam, it's not necessarily because of the condominium maximum occupation by foreigners. If your not in this part your in Though luck. You will need a company. 

[Guest1]

21 hours ago, Shark said:

Should I use a lawyer - off-course your trying to buy something in a foreign country.

sorry but, this is confusing how do you see a company as a scam, it's not necessarily because of the condominium maximum occupation by foreigners. If your not in this part your in Though luck. You will need a company. 

oot, cause topic is about condo (I still have my doubts about 'freehold condos', at least in that case, that the majority of the units is still in one Thai-hand, but that's a different story ;-) :

Out of lots of experience, most of the "companies", foreigners setting up in (southern) Thailand (at least), are either for wp-reasons (mainly for the OWN wp), or for "owning"  House and land! 

I just described that there is, was, at least, a totally LEGAL option, for owning land in Thailand, without having to rely on structures, that may not be so protective at all. A lot of these companies, 'owning' land, are still 49/51% companies. Which are 19% to much for owning the land! That is, why to have a bank in there, as the NEEDED 70% THAI ownership, is a much safer option. This 70% are in the books, till the last baht got paid! lLots of time to find buyers, trustable family, whatever!

jmy2c

Edited September 9, 2021 by Guest1