Risks of setting up an offshore software company in Phuket vs The rest of Thailand.

[Jingjo]

 

I'm overseas now, planning a return to the kingdom post covid. I have the opportunity to setup a software development division for my company in Thailand. I have previously setup a software company in Bangkok and have a strong understanding of the laws, rules and hiring procedures, so the question is not whether to setup a company in Thailand.

I don't want to do it in Bangkok again because I dislike the air quality and the subsequent effects on staff and their families.
I have only stayed in Phuket for a prolonged period as a digital nomad many years ago. It would be great if people could give their insight into what challenges I may face in doing this perhaps late 2022.

My main questions are:

• Will it be a struggle to hire skilled IT talent in Phuket?

• If so, are there likely to be any unforeseen difficulty (other than hiring) in getting staff to relocate?

• Is there anything else I may need to consider? For example will buying laptops be more of a challenge?

Pros

• Great weather, beaches, modern amenities.

• International airport.- Decent size city in Phuket town

• Expat talent can be persuaded to join due to location at cooperative rates.

Cons

• Reduced talent pool

• ???

 

[NCC1701A]

1 hour ago, Jingjo said:

Will it be a struggle to hire skilled IT talent in Phuket?

if their resume says they worked on websites for the Thai government make sure you never hire them. always 100% total failure.  

[shanghailoz]

2 hours ago, Jingjo said:

I'm overseas now, planning a return to the kingdom post covid. I have the opportunity to setup a software development division for my company in Thailand. I have previously setup a software company in Bangkok and have a strong understanding of the laws, rules and hiring procedures, so the question is not whether to setup a company in Thailand.

I don't want to do it in Bangkok again because I dislike the air quality and the subsequent effects on staff and their families.
I have only stayed in Phuket for a prolonged period as a digital nomad many years ago. It would be great if people could give their insight into what challenges I may face in doing this perhaps late 2022.

My main questions are:

• Will it be a struggle to hire skilled IT talent in Phuket?

• If so, are there likely to be any unforeseen difficulty (other than hiring) in getting staff to relocate?

• Is there anything else I may need to consider? For example will buying laptops be more of a challenge?

Pros

• Great weather, beaches, modern amenities.

• International airport.- Decent size city in Phuket town

• Expat talent can be persuaded to join due to location at cooperative rates.

Cons

• Reduced talent pool

• ???

Programmers tend to be younger demographic, so shouldn't be too hard to persuade people to move.  Older generation with families - harder obviously..
Quite a few people from Bangkok are remote working in places like Phuket at the moment...

The quality of uni graduates is likely better in the larger cities eg Bangkok though.

Power will be an issue as it can go out for a while once a month.  UPS or Laptops will solve that.

Internet is actually fairly decent, as is 4G connectivity in the island. I haven't tried 5G here though.

Getting equipment isn't too much of a pain - you don't really have MBK or similar malls like in Bangkok, but you do have Shopee and Lazada to order online from.  

I think it would be viable here, and staffing / rent costs will be lower than in other places.

Getting quality staff and keeping them may be harder though.

Right now covid is a definite issue, as is getting in /out of the island.  You either need to be a resident or have sufficient proof to come here.  That's going to be an uncertainty going forward regardless.

 

 

 

[gummy]

19 hours ago, shanghailoz said:

Programmers tend to be younger demographic, so shouldn't be too hard to persuade people to move.  Older generation with families - harder obviously..
Quite a few people from Bangkok are remote working in places like Phuket at the moment...

The quality of uni graduates is likely better in the larger cities eg Bangkok though.

Power will be an issue as it can go out for a while once a month.  UPS or Laptops will solve that.

Internet is actually fairly decent, as is 4G connectivity in the island. I haven't tried 5G here though.

Getting equipment isn't too much of a pain - you don't really have MBK or similar malls like in Bangkok, but you do have Shopee and Lazada to order online from.  

I think it would be viable here, and staffing / rent costs will be lower than in other places.

Getting quality staff and keeping them may be harder though.

Right now covid is a definite issue, as is getting in /out of the island.  You either need to be a resident or have sufficient proof to come here.  That's going to be an uncertainty going forward regardless.

In this day and age and within the technology sector you are working in, why on earth does location or staffing issues matter ? Its is the 21st century after !! so why aren't you working on line 100% ?

[Jingjo]

On 9/6/2021 at 3:56 PM, gummy said:

Its is the 21st century after !! so why aren't you working on line 100% ?

That is a good point, and we actually are a 100% remote company. 
I just find it easier to mentor Junior staff especially if we are co-located. That doesn't need to be an office, it could be a couple of days a week in a coworking space or a café even.
Maybe I just need to get better at doing that remotely too. 

I have worked with remote developers who lived in remote locations in Thailand and it worked quite well, and they charged hardly anything at all due to minimal cost of living in their area.

Perhaps the way I should be thinking about is hiring them remote but bringing them to Phuket for a 2 week workshop a couple of times a year. This would probably be cheaper and it sort of factors in team building and training into one event.

[Jingjo]

On 9/5/2021 at 7:06 PM, NCC1701A said:

if their resume says they worked on websites for the Thai government make sure you never hire them. always 100% total failure.  

'aint that the truth.

[Jingjo]

On 9/5/2021 at 8:32 PM, shanghailoz said:

Programmers tend to be younger demographic, so shouldn't be too hard to persuade people to move. 

Some great points to think about there.

Thanks.

[KaptainRob]

@Jingjo I suggest you contact member DeeBKK, he's in the business, recently set up in Hua Hin.

[Shark]

On 9/5/2021 at 2:46 PM, Jingjo said:

Will it be a struggle to hire skilled IT talent in Phuket?

yes but this isn't limited to Phuket, the broader Thailand will have the same problem.
If they can do something they are working somewhere for a beyond average pay and you need to want to buy them out for even more pay.... which means loyalty is jack shit.

On 9/5/2021 at 2:46 PM, Jingjo said:

If so, are there likely to be any unforeseen difficulty (other than hiring) in getting staff to relocate?

People tend to be happy where they are.. There are no limitations on Thais moving around the country.

On 9/5/2021 at 2:46 PM, Jingjo said:

Is there anything else I may need to consider? For example will buying laptops be more of a challenge?

It's a bit more expensive and a pain to get stuff even through the Apple website tends to hurt your ass.

On 9/5/2021 at 2:46 PM, Jingjo said:

Great weather, beaches, modern amenities.

You'll find this in many places around the world.

On 9/5/2021 at 2:46 PM, Jingjo said:

Expat talent can be persuaded to join due to location at cooperative rates.

How do you see this possible as "hiring" a expat would imply needing a work permit which on it's own will then mean hiring 4 Thais again.

Anyways good luck. If you have any questions be sure to ask them and I'll do my best.

My view on the IT job market in Thailand is that Talent hub seems to be located in Bangkok, even through what one would call talent there doesn't mean it's considered Talent in the Western world, meanwhile they do want a Western world salary because they stand out in the crowd/cornfield.

[shanghailoz]

8 hours ago, Jingjo said:

Some great points to think about there.

Thanks.

If you are heading here, give me a shout.

I'm an ex IT person / programmer/ devops, twiddling thumbs in phuket.

[DeeBKK]

On 9/5/2021 at 2:46 PM, Jingjo said:

I'm overseas now, planning a return to the kingdom post covid. I have the opportunity to setup a software development division for my company in Thailand. I have previously setup a software company in Bangkok and have a strong understanding of the laws, rules and hiring procedures, so the question is not whether to setup a company in Thailand.

I don't want to do it in Bangkok again because I dislike the air quality and the subsequent effects on staff and their families.
I have only stayed in Phuket for a prolonged period as a digital nomad many years ago. It would be great if people could give their insight into what challenges I may face in doing this perhaps late 2022.

My main questions are:

• Will it be a struggle to hire skilled IT talent in Phuket?

• If so, are there likely to be any unforeseen difficulty (other than hiring) in getting staff to relocate?

• Is there anything else I may need to consider? For example will buying laptops be more of a challenge?

Pros

• Great weather, beaches, modern amenities.

• International airport.- Decent size city in Phuket town

• Expat talent can be persuaded to join due to location at cooperative rates.

Cons

• Reduced talent pool

• ???

Hi

You can browse through all the listings for jobs as well as resumes on https://www.facebook.com/groups/647718825333067/ which is a group for people looking for jobs all over Thailand as well as for yourself when you want to post a job listing. I’m sure you can write your job listing in English, as any developer is able to read English fine.

I have also seen several people there from Phuket, so other than looking on LinkedIn, this group is where you want to start, and it shouldn’t be that more difficult as most developers (just like any other job) who are based in Bangkok only came to Bangkok for their job, so this means that there must be people from the south working in Bangkok as well who would be more than happy I think to get an opportunity in the south :)

If you salary is competitive, perhaps including rental 10-20k and a car on the company name, it will definitely stand out more. Although it also depends a lot on what the job descriptions actually are. For instance a JAVA software developer gets paid more than a PHP developer but I’m sure you know all that (salaries) already as you had a software company in Bangkok before. But as soon as you think that a salary is at least 80k, you could stand out by offering extra things to make it interesting for Thais as well, for most of them they not really care if they are near tropical beaches :)

Give it a try mate! I wouldn’t be so concerned about it finding the right people either already there or when they require to move to your location as I have seen it all the time.

Wishing you all the best setting up a software division in Phuket
 

dee ^^

 

[gummy]

23 hours ago, Jingjo said:

That is a good point, and we actually are a 100% remote company. 
I just find it easier to mentor Junior staff especially if we are co-located. That doesn't need to be an office, it could be a couple of days a week in a coworking space or a café even.
Maybe I just need to get better at doing that remotely too. 

I have worked with remote developers who lived in remote locations in Thailand and it worked quite well, and they charged hardly anything at all due to minimal cost of living in their area.

Perhaps the way I should be thinking about is hiring them remote but bringing them to Phuket for a 2 week workshop a couple of times a year. This would probably be cheaper and it sort of factors in team building and training into one event.

I also notice that you are considering this "post covid". Now like all of us the expert opinion is that covid will never go away, just that we learn to live with it so based on that then working remotely would mitigate risks to everybody working for you and hence , unlike a physical office presence, would not impact your business and client delivery should , god forbid, any one of your workers contract it or any thing else. As you say you have worked with people based remotely in Thailand it is so easy to do these days especially with high speed internet we have. In fact my friends in the UK still complain about their speeds yet in the sticks where I live  I get 950 mbps down/720 up 99% of the time so remote working is a bliss.