News Forum - AstraZeneca-Pfizer mixed vaccination to debut in October

[BlueSphinx]

16 minutes ago, Bubbleboy said:

1.3 million of Canadians have mixed vaccine doses usually with AZ as their first and Pfizer or Moderna as their second dose. We were told to do so, because of lack of vaccines at the time. AZ was also stopped being given as a second dose because of blood clots in May. I have AZ as my first and Moderna as my second.

The only problem is that many countries and employers aren't accepting mixed vaccines. This is a huge issue and really needs to be changed for millions of people that want to travel or work abroad.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/mixed-dose-woes-some-canadians-lost-out-on-jobs-abroad-due-to-their-mixed-vaccines-1.6144914

 

"Sweden is the second European Union (EU) country to ban Israeli visitors because of an increasing number of infections.

Portugal on Wednesday prohibited Israelis from entering the country, including vaccinated individuals and those able to provide proof of a negative coronavirus test."

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/coronavirus/1630608492-sweden-bans-entry-for-travelers-from-us-israel-due-to-rising-covid-19-rates

> Double/triple vaccinated individuals from Israel, USA and some other countries are currently not allowed to enter Sweden or Portugal!   Let that sink in, if you took the vaccine to regain your 'freedom to travel'...

 

[BlueSphinx]

7 minutes ago, Bubbleboy said:

I wouldn't listen to the CDC. Studies done by Oxford and also in South Korea show that having AZ as your first jab and a Mrna vaccine as a second showed a robust immune response and higher than having two jabs of AZ. 

A more recent trial conducted in South Korea has shown that a mixed vaccination, with AZ as the first dose and Pfizer as the second, induced neutralising antibody levels six times higher than those seen after two doses of the AstraZeneca jab.

https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/features/covid-19-vaccine-mixing-astrazeneca-pfizer/

I wouldn't listen to the patented liars of the CDC either, but the CDC and WHO recommendations are considered Gospel by many governments (not only in USA) and drive their policies to deal with covid-19.  If country entry policy is 'no access without double vaccination of same jab within prescribed period of time' all the scientific studies in the world will not convince immigration officials to let you in...

[Bubbleboy]

3 minutes ago, BlueSphinx said:

.  If country entry policy is 'no access without double vaccination of same jab within prescribed period of time' all the scientific studies in the world will not convince immigration officials to let you in...

True, but I am hoping this changes sooner than later because there are many countries and people that have mixed vaccines now. 

[Bob20]

1 hour ago, Disenfranchised said:

I don't see how the CDC is qualified to have an opinion as no large scale research has been done in the US. Just another way of protecting big Pharm. After all, the vaccine recipient gets the best protection from a $100 dose rather than a $3 dose.

Nor will anyone who has been vaccinated by any vaccine other than Pfizer, Moderna or J&J will be travelling to the US if a vaccine passport is required. 

Vaccine politics in the good ol' USofA.

 

1 hour ago, Disenfranchised said:

The CDC is not an unbiased observer given the politics of vaccine use. Only 3 vaccines have been approved for use in the US, Pfizer, Moderna and J&J. 

Despite the anectdotal evidence of side effects associated with each vaccine it is only AZ (not made in the good ol' USofA) and is provided at cost that is still not approved for use.

When politics and pharmaceutical companies are involved then then beware! 

The only large scale studies I am aware of come from the UK where mixing has been going on for months both by the NHS and the UN universities (notably Oxford).

Some valid points, but if you consider CDC as biased, then the AZ study is too, as the UK government funded a large part of AZ's R&D.

I'm not convinced that nations medical agencies are all in pharma's pockets although there's lobbying (like in any other industry).

As for the US: once they had the mRNA vaccines that proved extremely effective and safe for something developed so quickly, why choose something inferior to add? It's not like no other research is done in the US. It's just that nothing else comes even close. And as for price: 465 baht per dose for Pfizer is a bargain, even cheaper than Sinovac.

If anything better is developed, we'd know it 5 minutes later with the internet as it is. A tiny independent  laboratory would be all over the news just the same. And if they have something valid, money will be thrown at them from all angles, or big pharma will incorporate them to speed things up as they have the facilities already. That's actually what happened with Pfizer as well, because the technology comes from the German BioNTech, not from Pfizer...

 

[King Cotton]

50 minutes ago, Bubbleboy said:

1.3 million of Canadians have mixed vaccine doses usually with AZ as their first and Pfizer or Moderna as their second dose. We were told to do so, because of lack of vaccines at the time. AZ was also stopped being given as a second dose because of blood clots in May. I have AZ as my first and Moderna as my second.

The only problem is that many countries and employers aren't accepting mixed vaccines. This is a huge issue and really needs to be changed for millions of people that want to travel or work abroad.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/mixed-dose-woes-some-canadians-lost-out-on-jobs-abroad-due-to-their-mixed-vaccines-1.6144914

Valid points, for sure!  And your debut post, too, so thanks for that!

Hello, Bubbleboy and welcome to Thaiger Talk

Please feel free to tell us a bit about yourself in 'Introductions'. It's good to pick-up on those sometimes differing regional or geographical perspectives.

And check-out the Guidelines, too, when you get a free minute. They're there to help us all enjoy our time here.       https://thethaiger.com/forum-guidelines-and-rules

Happy posting

King Cotton

[Paco]

invention of Thailand and then making claims they get not proof at all. give that mix to your mother government, not to me

 

as said if on 17 September my second shot is not the promised Pfizer, i skip that shot, do what you promise and start buying vaccines the PEOPLE want and feel more sure with

Edited September 4, 2021 by Paco

[Bob20]

9 minutes ago, Paco said:

invention of Thailand and then making claims they get not proof at all. give that mix to your mother government, not to me

as said if on 17 September my second shot is not the promised Pfizer, i skip that shot, do what you promise and start buying vaccines the PEOPLE want and feel more sure with

There can be only a few valid reasons for mixing:

1) insufficient supply

2) proven better efficacy and safety of mixed vs single type

We can't do anything about the first, as Thailand was just too late to start.

For the second you need valid research conclusions. They don't exist yet.

So, just be honest and say it's done because of supply shortage instead of bending research data to suit your narrative. People see through it.

[Allan]

11 hours ago, Faraday said:

I haven't even been waccinated, & I'm dizzy already at these numbers..

But, I really must say Kh Anutin is an absolute star for achieving this.

*Post contains alcohol, sarcasm & nuts*

A fine mixture, 

[oldcpu]

10 hours ago, 9S_ said:

Pretty sure the WHO opposes this since there’s no studies on vaccine mixing. 

That is incorrect. There are a number of studies on vaccine mixing.

Further, the WHO has clarified their remarks, and stated they oppose individuals deciding for themselves to mix vaccines, but they, the WHO, is ok/fine with national authorities deciding to mix vaccines.

Edited September 4, 2021 by oldcpu

[oldcpu]

48 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

There can be only a few valid reasons for mixing:

1) insufficient supply

2) proven better efficacy and safety of mixed vs single type

We can't do anything about the first, as Thailand was just too late to start.

For the second you need valid research conclusions. They don't exist yet.

Not true wrt no valid research conclusions.

There has been a number of studies of vaccine mixing.  Spain. UK. Germany. Korea. Thailand and I suspect other countries have all had research done reaching conclusions on the benefits of specific mixings.

[Bob20]

1 minute ago, oldcpu said:

Not true wrt no valid research conclusions.

There has been a number of studies of vaccine mixing.  Spain. UK. Germany. Korea. Thailand and I suspect other countries have all had research done reaching conclusions on the benefits of specific mixings.

I didn't say there are no studies. I said there are no valid research conclusions.

A few studies prove nothing, as has been extensively discussed in numerous threads.

Too many variables too. Which combinations, which one first, how long a time interval between jabs etc. It's just not sufficiently researched yet. And the mixes are empirically given in countries with supply shortages.

Some are still doubting the vaccines after 5.33 billion were given and are extensively researched since the start of phase I studies. So a few studies with limited numbers and many variables over a very short period of time really don't say much (yet). Not saying they're wrong. Saying it's not scientific evidence.

[stuhan]

One important step i had to make was do i have the vaccine or not, this was due to all i read online for,against,health issues,side effects. deaths, pro's and cons. I decided to have the vaccine but not to mix vaccines until they have more time to show their safety with mixing them. So i had my 1st pfizer jab 11 days ago, 2nd is on the 14th and states pfizer for 2nd jab on my app card. I will not accept another vaccine only pfizer as my 2nd jab as it strongly states on pfizers web site 2nd dose must BE PFIZER ONLY. I go along with that statement, i won't mix my 2nd jab, no matter what they tell me at this time. If i see an independant report from pfizer saying another vaccine is safe to use for your 2nd dose then i will accept but only if said by pfizer themselves.

[SteveM]

The article says "from October." So, those of us scheduled for 2nd dose of Pfizer this month should be OK, right? I'm not worried about it. Relax. I think it will mostly be Thais that will be getting this mix.

 

[Bob20]

4 minutes ago, SteveM said:

The article says "from October." So, those of us scheduled for 2nd dose of Pfizer this month should be OK, right? I'm not worried about it. Relax. I think it will mostly be Thais that will be getting this mix.

Yes, October debut, in a theatre near you. Can also have AZ with popcorn   and coke

If you have an appointment stating the vaccine you will be given for your second jab, they have promised to give you what you were told, unless they inform you beforehand.

[stuhan]

16 minutes ago, SteveM said:

The article says "from October." So, those of us scheduled for 2nd dose of Pfizer this month should be OK, right? I'm not worried about it. Relax. I think it will mostly be Thais that will be getting this mix.

This is Thailand,anything can happen cheers

[BlueSphinx]

18 minutes ago, SteveM said:

The article says "from October." So, those of us scheduled for 2nd dose of Pfizer this month should be OK, right? I'm not worried about it. Relax. I think it will mostly be Thais that will be getting this mix.

Wow - wow - wow!!! Are you stating that we - farang - can relax and that it is OK because "it will mostly be Thais that will be getting this mix".  That's absolutely despicable!  The covid-vaccines themselves are already experimental, and now because of unavailabilty of the 1st jab that people got, they will be getting 'whatever is available' and therefore 'experimenting within the experiment'.  Even the vax-enthusiasts have some reservations whether that would be safe to do so.  It was government spokes-person dr Yong(ele) who first launched that Thai solution, but he has been very quiet lately, but it seems his evil spirit is still inspiring Thai covid-vaccine roll-out policy.

[Guevara]

2 hours ago, oldcpu said:

Not true wrt no valid research conclusions.

There has been a number of studies of vaccine mixing.  Spain. UK. Germany. Korea. Thailand and I suspect other countries have all had research done reaching conclusions on the benefits of specific mixings.

Some Countries have moved forward from studies to controlled clinical trials with positive results, i.e. Imperial College, London and Oxford. I can't speak for other Countries. To date, there have been no adverse reactions.

[billywillyjones]

What a lovely cocktail they are mixing... step into the lab Boris... we are vaccinating the girl tonight...

[Scotty]

Complete insanity. Mixing vaccines, neither have been proven safe, neither have a third of the mandatory testing period of all other vaccines.  This is a dream of Bill Gates, to thin the herd and this will surely do that.

[DiJoDavO]

13 hours ago, Bob20 said:

Germany will be first to stop mass testing on 11 October.

Guess which country will be done with Covid first by 11 October?

[Bob20]

36 minutes ago, Guevara said:

Some Countries have moved forward from studies to controlled clinical trials with positive results, i.e. Imperial College, London and Oxford. I can't speak for other Countries. To date, there have been no adverse reactions.

Yes Guevara, thanks. That's what I said. Yet, one or a few specific trials with fixed variables don't say anything about general "mixing".

And what I think is most unfair and unreasonable, is that some people who were highly critical of emergency use of the vaccines because not enough was known yet (when the amount of data far exceeded the amount we have for mixes), for some reason think it's fine to accept much less researched mixing.

Anyway, as said, I'm not against it but prefer more data first.

P.S. and where other countries do it with research and properly managed clinical trials, here the thought was "we don't have enough and sounds okay, so let's just do it". 

Nitpicking, but definitely more adverse reactions are found by mixing, but mild to moderate. Even reported by Oxford University.

https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-05-13-preliminary-data-suggests-mixing-covid-19-vaccine-increases-reactogenicity

[Pi_Tim]

Herd Immunity cannot be achieved with this virus as the immune response (from sickness or vaccine) is too low ! This is a known and accepted fact among the vaccinated countries (cf Iceland and UK)

The only way is to vaccinate every person at risk, and live with it.

And we are far from it here ....

[King Cotton]

7 minutes ago, Pi_Tim said:

Herd Immunity cannot be achieved with this virus as the immune response (from sickness or vaccine) is too low ! This is a known and accepted fact among the vaccinated countries (cf Iceland and UK)

The only way is to vaccinate every person at risk, and live with it.

And we are far from it here ....

Yes, 'far from it' has to be the understatement of the year.  And this, your debut post, too . . . thanks for that!

Hello, Pi_Tim and welcome to Thaiger Talk

Please feel free to tell us a bit about yourself in 'Introductions'. It's good to pick-up on those sometimes differing regional or geographical perspectives.

And check-out the Guidelines, too, when you get a free minute. They're there to help us all enjoy our time here.       https://thethaiger.com/forum-guidelines-and-rules

Happy posting

King Cotton

[oldcpu]

6 hours ago, Bob20 said:

I didn't say there are no studies. I said there are no valid research conclusions.

A few studies prove nothing, as has been extensively discussed in numerous threads.

A few studies do prove this is promising.

Further the research is valid.

Your statement saying it's not is what is invalid.

Where is your valid study proving the mixing is not equal and better for specific cases?

 

[Bob20]

5 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

A few studies do prove this is promising.

Further the research is valid.

Your statement saying it's not is what is invalid.

Where is your valid study proving the mixing is not equal and better for specific cases?

That's not a scientific argument.

If you want to prove validity for mixing, you need to provide evidence. I don't have to provide evidence to the contrary.

For now the safe effective way is two doses of the same vaccine.

I don't disagree that mixing looks promising. But a few studies are not sufficient to start using it on the population as a whole and the clinical trials haven't finished. Plus some of the claims about adverse effects are simply untrue, which I already posted (incl. link from the university of Oxford).