News Forum - AstraZeneca-Pfizer mixed vaccination to debut in October

[Thaiger]

In the battle to get access to high-quality vaccines in Thailand, October is set to see an upgrade with the initiation of administering a mix of AstraZeneca and Pfizer doses for patients. The deputy director-general of the Disease Control Department said today Thailand will receive about 10 million Pfizer vaccines arriving each month beginning in October. The government now plans to supplement the first dose of domestically-produced AstraZeneca with a second dose of the Pfizer mRNA vaccine 1 to 3 months later. While mixing vaccine brands is still controversial with less data on efficacy and safety, many agree that the […]

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[Malc-Thai]

"the decision was based on research in Thailand and abroad with new data indicated that mixing vaccines is safe"

not being funny but where did Thailand get enough amounts of AstraZeneca and Pfizer to perform trials for this research!  

[Faraday]

I haven't even been waccinated, & I'm dizzy already at these numbers..

But, I really must say Kh Anutin is an absolute star for achieving this.

 

 

*Post contains alcohol, sarcasm & nuts*

 

[DiggR]

1 hour ago, Thaiger said:

 

Health authorities fear that with the emergence of the Delta variant the goal of achieving herd immunity by reaching a 70% vaccination rate in Thailand before the end of 2021 may not be attainable anymore.

 

And here l was blaming the incompetent procurement on humans when it's the damn Delta virus causing the snafu

[9S_]

Pretty sure the WHO opposes this since there’s no studies on vaccine mixing. 

[DiggR]

58 minutes ago, Malc-Thai said:

"the decision was based on research in Thailand and abroad with new data indicated that mixing vaccines is safe"

not being funny but where did Thailand get enough amounts of AstraZeneca and Pfizer to perform trials for this research!  

They completed  vaccine cocktail testing on the captured macaque monkeys prior to sterilization (s)

[Bob20]

Last week we were told Sinovac was nearly 100% effective, remember?

We wondered why the mix with AZ was necessary if it was so good on its own.

But the mix with AZ was even better we were told.

Now Pfizer combined with AZ is even better still.

It must now be well over 100% effective.

Time the rest of the world starts following Thailand's covid response.

[DiggR]

7 minutes ago, 9S_ said:

Pretty sure the WHO opposes this since there’s no studies on vaccine mixing. 

Pretty sure you would be a bit off the mark.

13Jul21

The WHO's Strategic Advisory Group of Experts on vaccines said in June the Pfizer Inc (PFE.N) vaccine could be used as a second dose after an initial dose of AstraZeneca (AZN.L), if the latter is not available.

A clinical trial led by the University of Oxford in the UK is ongoing to investigate mixing the regimen of AstraZeneca and Pfizer vaccines. The trial was recently expanded to include the Moderna Inc (MRNA.O) and Novavax Inc (NVAX.O) vaccines.

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/who-warns-against-mixing-matching-covid-vaccines-2021-07-12/

[Bob20]

11 minutes ago, DiggR said:

Health authorities fear that with the emergence of the Delta variant the goal of achieving herd immunity by reaching a 70% vaccination rate in Thailand before the end of 2021 may not be attainable anymore.

And here l was blaming the incompetent procurement on humans when it's the damn Delta virus causing the snafu

Europe has come around to the theory that herd immunity will not happen.

Germany will be first to stop mass testing on 11 October.

It was thought the virus would stop replicating after enough people were vaccinated, but even vaccinated people can carry and transmit it, so there is no  dead-end road for the virus.

Everyone is thought to at some stage become infected with it. The west now says to vaccinate to limit the severity of the problems and test only those with symptoms, as that number reduces all the time due to mass vaccination.

The plan is now to vaccinate everyone but very young children as they rarely suffer severe problems and to prop up waning immunity with regular boosters.

[DiggR]

Nice catch Bob, I noted the herd immunity reference but the article referenced is 2 months old and things have evolved. Although there may still be a chance for elephant herd immunity in Thailand. 

[9S_]

37 minutes ago, DiggR said:

Pretty sure you would be a bit off the mark.

13Jul21

The WHO's Strategic Advisory Group of Experts on vaccines said in June the Pfizer Inc (PFE.N) vaccine could be used as a second dose after an initial dose of AstraZeneca (AZN.L), if the latter is not available.

A clinical trial led by the University of Oxford in the UK is ongoing to investigate mixing the regimen of AstraZeneca and Pfizer vaccines. The trial was recently expanded to include the Moderna Inc (MRNA.O) and Novavax Inc (NVAX.O) vaccines.

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/who-warns-against-mixing-matching-covid-vaccines-2021-07-12/

Pretty sure I’m close

 

WHO warns individuals against mixing and matching COVID vaccines

 

 

The World Health Organization's chief scientist has advised individualsagainst mixing and matching COVID-19 vaccines from different manufacturers.

"It's a little bit of a dangerous trend here," Soumya Swaminathan told an online briefing on Monday after a question about booster shots. "It will be a chaotic situation in countries if citizens start deciding when and who will be taking a second, a third and a fourth dose."

Swaminathan had called mixing a "data-free zone

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/who-warns-against-mixing-matching-covid-vaccines-2021-07-12/

 

[DiggR]

3 minutes ago, 9S_ said:

Pretty sure I’m close

WHO warns individuals against mixing and matching COVID vaccines

The World Health Organization's chief scientist has advised individualsagainst mixing and matching COVID-19 vaccines from different manufacturers.

"It's a little bit of a dangerous trend here," Soumya Swaminathan told an online briefing on Monday after a question about booster shots. "It will be a chaotic situation in countries if citizens start deciding when and who will be taking a second, a third and a fourth dose."

Swaminathan had called mixing a "data-free zone

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/who-warns-against-mixing-matching-covid-vaccines-2021-07-12/

You are right except they are warning individuals not to mix n match and recommend that the medical/gov organizations make the call as there is not much research data to date.

[JackIsAGoodBoy]

Are they going to give 1 million baht dead or coma insurance and 30000 for side effects like Sinovac?

No? Well, I'll pass!

[riclag]

Gotta get that shareholders AZ involved  come hell or high water

[9S_]

1 hour ago, Bob20 said:

Last week we were told Sinovac was nearly 100% effective, remember?

We wondered why the mix with AZ was necessary if it was so good on its own.

But the mix with AZ was even better we were told.

Now Pfizer combined with AZ is even better still.

It must now be well over 100% effective.

Time the rest of the world starts following Thailand's covid response.

Nothing wrong with changes with policy. 
 

It was believed that human transmissibility was an impossibility for the first 3 months of the pandemic but based on further research it was in fact happening in China. 
 

Sinovac may have been effective against Covid, hence it was granted EUA by the WHO and widely used in SE Asia, notably Indonesia but with the advent of Delta (which probably nobody saw coming) forced the change to seek better vaccines or in some cases mix and match.
 

In regards to AZ, policies were changed so that it would be recommended for people over 60 due to prevalence of blood clots for people under that age. 
 

If Pfizer + AZ is effective so be it. We should change policy to make it more widespread among the public. 
 

Nothing wrong with changes. Change is a good thing. It means we’re getting better. Let’s welcome change. Change we can believe in!

[9S_]

35 minutes ago, DiggR said:

You are right except they are warning individuals not to mix n match and recommend that the medical/gov organizations make the call as there is not much research data to date.

Yea that was an older article here’s a more recent one (although not WHO) from The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/sep/01/australian-health-authorities-warn-against-mixing-covid-vaccine-types

 

Australian health authorities warn against mixing Covid vaccine types
 

 

The announcements have led to hope from some of those in Victoria and New South Wales awaiting second-dose AstraZeneca appointments that they might be able to receive Pfizer instead. However, vaccination hubs and GPs in Australia do not yet allow this, aside from in exceptional circumstances.

The head of the Australian Medical Association (AMA) Dr Omar Khorshid said “there’s definitely people vaccinated with AstraZeneca interested in getting Pfizer as a second dose, but that really doesn’t make any sense”.

“The majority of the small risk of TTS is associated with the first dose, and in addition vaccination with AstraZeneca may also provide better longer term protection than Pfizer,” he said.

“For those who have had their first dose of AstraZeneca it’s a no-brainer to have the second. It’s a fantastic vaccine with excellent efficacy and safety. The studies on mixing vaccines are much smaller.”

The head of the Royal Australasian College of General Practitioners (RACGP) Dr Karen Price said GPs were having a lot of discussions with patients about mixed-dosing.

 

“Our advice is mixed dosing is not approved in Australia and we are proceeding as per Atagi guidelines,” she said. “I am not quite sure what people are concerned about given recent studies on AstraZeneca showing good results, and the second dose is linked with hardly any TTS.”

 

Well If science does in fact confirm that Pfizer + AZ is truly effective then it should be policy 

Also they should really change the Reuter Headline, I didn’t realize we were quoting the same one! 

Mixing is not safe! Then towards the end a preliminary study showing mixing might be okay. 

 

 

[riclag]

Lets face it ,the  AZ here, is being pushed for a  reason  and one reason only ! 

One good thing, this time around . Tooiland ain't mixing the chinese  juice  with Pvax

Edited September 3, 2021 by riclag

[Soidog]

3 hours ago, Bob20 said:

Europe has come around to the theory that herd immunity will not happen.

Germany will be first to stop mass testing on 11 October.

It was thought the virus would stop replicating after enough people were vaccinated, but even vaccinated people can carry and transmit it, so there is no  dead-end road for the virus.

Everyone is thought to at some stage become infected with it. The west now says to vaccinate to limit the severity of the problems and test only those with symptoms, as that number reduces all the time due to mass vaccination.

The plan is now to vaccinate everyone but very young children as they rarely suffer severe problems and to prop up waning immunity with regular boosters.

Yes spot on comments @Bob20. It’s interesting how policy in some countries continues to lag others, even though the path is inevitable. A year ago the game some were playing was one of containment. The idea somehow this virus would burn itself out and keep safe by closing off the country. Slowly but surely, every country is starting realise this is a flawed strategy and switching to one of “living with Covid”. Thailand is again late to change its approach by keeping on pushing the message of “herd immunity”. As Bob20 rightly says, this is now seen as flawed and so again Thailand is wasting its time peddling that message. The only way out of this is through vaccination and an understanding that we are all likely to catch Covid but the vaccines will reduce serious illness and death for most. It’s sad to hear Thai officials and people who should be better informed still talking of herd immunity. It feels as though the Thais are many months away from grasping what is going on with this virus and setting an opening strategy based on having to live with it. Vaccinate the population and let’s all move on. 

[JamesEmanuel]

 

Please see below information from the CDC regarding mixing vaccines.

• "COVID-19 vaccines are not interchangeable. In other words, for COVID-19 vaccines that need two doses, if you receive the first dose of one vaccine, you should receive the same vaccine as your second dose. The safety and effectiveness of receiving two different COVID-19 vaccines have not been studied."
• "If you received all recommended doses of a COVID-19 vaccine that has been authorized for emergency use by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) or is listed for emergency use by the World Health Organization (WHO), then you do not need any additional doses of COVID-19 vaccine."
• "Get your second dose of the same vaccine as close to the recommended time as possible."

The United States will soon be adopting a policy for international visitors requiring vaccination. The policy will NOT allow visitors that have not been vaccinated with the recommended doses of a single vaccine.

 

If Thailand does not administer the recommended doses for a single vaccine, then Thailand visitors will not be allowed in the United States.

 

[gummy]

2 hours ago, JamesEmanuel said:

Please see below information from the CDC regarding mixing vaccines.

• "COVID-19 vaccines are not interchangeable. In other words, for COVID-19 vaccines that need two doses, if you receive the first dose of one vaccine, you should receive the same vaccine as your second dose. The safety and effectiveness of receiving two different COVID-19 vaccines have not been studied."
• "If you received all recommended doses of a COVID-19 vaccine that has been authorized for emergency use by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) or is listed for emergency use by the World Health Organization (WHO), then you do not need any additional doses of COVID-19 vaccine."
• "Get your second dose of the same vaccine as close to the recommended time as possible."

The United States will soon be adopting a policy for international visitors requiring vaccination. The policy will NOT allow visitors that have not been vaccinated with the recommended doses of a single vaccine.

 

If Thailand does not administer the recommended doses for a single vaccine, then Thailand visitors will not be allowed in the United States.

But, but, but but, don't they know Thais know best ? 

[HiuMak]

8 hours ago, Faraday said:

I haven't even been waccinated, & I'm dizzy already at these numbers..

But, I really must say Kh Anutin is an absolute star for achieving this.

*Post contains alcohol, sarcasm & nuts*

Thailand sure has a complicated strategy to vaccinate citizens and residents. The goal posts keeps changing and lack lustre attitude from authorities of vaccine procurement and waiting for vaccine donations is not appreciated by Thais. 

If i am in Thailand I will confused to what to take and safe to take. No confidence

[Disenfranchised]

2 hours ago, JamesEmanuel said:

Please see below information from the CDC regarding mixing vaccines.

• "COVID-19 vaccines are not interchangeable. In other words, for COVID-19 vaccines that need two doses, if you receive the first dose of one vaccine, you should receive the same vaccine as your second dose. The safety and effectiveness of receiving two different COVID-19 vaccines have not been studied."
• "If you received all recommended doses of a COVID-19 vaccine that has been authorized for emergency use by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) or is listed for emergency use by the World Health Organization (WHO), then you do not need any additional doses of COVID-19 vaccine."
• "Get your second dose of the same vaccine as close to the recommended time as possible."

The United States will soon be adopting a policy for international visitors requiring vaccination. The policy will NOT allow visitors that have not been vaccinated with the recommended doses of a single vaccine.

 

If Thailand does not administer the recommended doses for a single vaccine, then Thailand visitors will not be allowed in the United States.

The CDC is not an unbiased observer given the politics of vaccine use. Only 3 vaccines have been approved for use in the US, Pfizer, Moderna and J&J. 

Despite the anectdotal evidence of side effects associated with each vaccine it is only AZ (not made in the good ol' USofA) and is provided at cost that is still not approved for use.

When politics and pharmaceutical companies are involved then then beware! 

The only large scale studies I am aware of come from the UK where mixing has been going on for months both by the NHS and the UN universities (notably Oxford).

[Disenfranchised]

2 hours ago, JamesEmanuel said:

Please see below information from the CDC regarding mixing vaccines.

• "COVID-19 vaccines are not interchangeable. In other words, for COVID-19 vaccines that need two doses, if you receive the first dose of one vaccine, you should receive the same vaccine as your second dose. The safety and effectiveness of receiving two different COVID-19 vaccines have not been studied."
• "If you received all recommended doses of a COVID-19 vaccine that has been authorized for emergency use by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) or is listed for emergency use by the World Health Organization (WHO), then you do not need any additional doses of COVID-19 vaccine."
• "Get your second dose of the same vaccine as close to the recommended time as possible."

The United States will soon be adopting a policy for international visitors requiring vaccination. The policy will NOT allow visitors that have not been vaccinated with the recommended doses of a single vaccine.

 

If Thailand does not administer the recommended doses for a single vaccine, then Thailand visitors will not be allowed in the United States.

I don't see how the CDC is qualified to have an opinion as no large scale research has been done in the US. Just another way of protecting big Pharm. After all, the vaccine recipient gets the best protection from a $100 dose rather than a $3 dose.

Nor will anyone who has been vaccinated by any vaccine other than Pfizer, Moderna or J&J will be travelling to the US if a vaccine passport is required. 

Vaccine politics in the good ol' USofA.

Edited September 3, 2021 by Disenfranchised

[Bubbleboy]

1.3 million of Canadians have mixed vaccine doses usually with AZ as their first and Pfizer or Moderna as their second dose. We were told to do so, because of lack of vaccines at the time. AZ was also stopped being given as a second dose because of blood clots in May. I have AZ as my first and Moderna as my second.

The only problem is that many countries and employers aren't accepting mixed vaccines. This is a huge issue and really needs to be changed for millions of people that want to travel or work abroad.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/mixed-dose-woes-some-canadians-lost-out-on-jobs-abroad-due-to-their-mixed-vaccines-1.6144914

 

 

[Bubbleboy]

I wouldn't listen to the CDC. Studies done by Oxford and also in South Korea show that having AZ as your first jab and a Mrna vaccine as a second showed a robust immune response and higher than having two jabs of AZ. 

 

A more recent trial conducted in South Korea has shown that a mixed vaccination, with AZ as the first dose and Pfizer as the second, induced neutralising antibody levels six times higher than those seen after two doses of the AstraZeneca jab.

 

 

https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/features/covid-19-vaccine-mixing-astrazeneca-pfizer/

Edited September 4, 2021 by Bubbleboy
missed some info