Thai Language thread

[Bluesofa]

A few more word breakdowns, showing how they go together. Talking about money:

 

A few more words, not money related:

 

 

 

[Dedinbed]

1 hour ago, Bluesofa said:

A few more word breakdowns, showing how they go together. Talking about money:

A few more words, not money related:

blimey thou art well practiced in the native tongue .. mor doo = fortune teller you say , bet that gets uttered alot on a daily basis .. but can't they just simplify it with Mystic Meg for Johnny farang .. 

[Bluesofa]

13 hours ago, Dedinbed said:

blimey thou art well practiced in the native tongue .. mor doo = fortune teller you say , bet that gets uttered alot on a daily basis .. but can't they just simplify it with Mystic Meg for Johnny farang .. 

A short(ish) aside:
A few years ago ferang friend was telling me about his wife continually going to temples, like Thais do.
He mentioned she often visited the temple down a short soi near our house.
I quizzed him about it, and told him it there was no temple - there were only three houses in that soi and 95% of 'visitors' went down there to 'consult' the fortune-teller at one of the houses - something his wife didn't tell him.

The same fortune-teller, being a vague relation of my wife and near-neighbour, told my wife in passing that a lot of the females would ask him 'when they would find a ferang'.
One who eventually did, was then asked by the girl's mother if the fortune-teller could 'put a spell' on the ferang, so he would die quickly and her daughter could have his money.
By telling my wife this, there was no fortune-teller/patient confidentially in that particular case. 

 

[Bluesofa]

 

I've been reading about the origins of Thai script. It does seem quite subjective how it originated, depending on which account you read.

At school, Thai kids are taught that Ramkhamhaeng the Great invented the Thai script in 1283.
I read someone's comment elsewhere that after age 12, there is a reference in some school books that it was 'adapted' from early Khmer script.
Remember that before Siam existed, the land was part of the Khmer kingdom centuries ago.

Someone even said that ព ('por')  in Khmer script is an upside down version of ผ ('por') in Thai script.

Then there was a suggestion that Lao script came from Khmer, in which Lao in turn was then used to become Thai.

 

After the "invention" of Thai script in 1283, the grandson of Ramkhamhaeng the Great - Li Thai  - created a new script in 1357.
Then in 1680, another Thai monarch, Narai, introduced another new script, being the script in use today.

Glad it's so straightforward.

 

[Bluesofa]

What’s in a word? In this word, there’s quite a lot:

Firstly, it’s a word with no vowels, something not uncommon. When it’s broken down into the syllables, it becomes  ส(sa)   กล(kon)   น(na)   คร(kon).
I’ve put vowels into the English translation, as I think we’d struggle otherwise.

Despite the lack of Thai vowels, there are some other discrepancies that come into play.

กล(kon) is actually spelt in Thai as ‘kl’. So even though there’s no Thai vowel, why is ‘kol’ pronounced as ‘kon’?
It’s because there are no Thai words that end in an ‘L’ sound. The Thai tongue doesn’t naturally make ‘L’ as a final syllable.

Another example of that is ชลบุรี (Chonburi) The first syllable is ชล (chon), but written in Thai as ‘chl’, so hence ‘it becomes chon’ and not ‘chol’.

Thais can’t say the English word ‘wall’. If you listen, it will be pronounced as ‘warw’, because they can have ว(w) as a final consonant sound and that becomes the closest sound.

 

Which brings us to คร(kon). This is spelt in Thai as ‘kr’. While there are Thai words that end in an ‘R’ sound, if a syllable has ร(R) as a final consonant, it’s pronounced as น(N) too. I don’t know why, but it just is.

 

 

 

[Bluesofa]

I don’t know about native speakers of other languages, but in UK English, we had to learn a little phrase to know if the month had 30 or 31 days.

Thais don’t have to remember anything like that, as the name of the month tells them this.
I’ll list them first, then explain:

January มกราคม (mok-ar-ra-kum)

February กุมภาพันธ์ (gum-par-pan)

March มีนาคม (mee-na-kum)

April เมษายน (may-sar-yun)

May พฤษภาคม (pru-sur-par-kum)

June มิถุนายน (mee-na-yun)

July กรกฎาคม (ga-rak-a-dar-kum)

August สิงหาคม (sing-har-kum)

September กันยายน (gan-yar-yun)

October ตุลาคม (du-lar-kum)

November พฤศจิกายน (pr-sit-i-gar-yun)

December ธันวาคม (tan-wa-kum)

Have you worked it out yet? It’s the end of the word:
If the month ends in ยน (yun) there’s 30 days, if ends in คม (kum) there’s 31 days.
Being the odd one out, as you can see February ends in พันธ์ (pan)

Dead easy! As long as you can remember the names of the months – which I never can. There’s only five I can remember.

[BigHewer]

30 minutes ago, Bluesofa said:

I don’t know about native speakers of other languages, but in UK English, we had to learn a little phrase to know if the month had 30 or 31 days.

In German, there’s a song that begins:

“30 Tage haben September, April, Juni und November…”

Even non German speakers can pick up the rhyme on the two “embers”. 
Also, we were taught to look at the  ridges and peaks in our knuckles side by side from left to right, from the left pinky through to the right ring finger for the “big” and “small” months.

When I went to Thai school in the mid-2000s, I struggled with the months. Could only remember มีนาคม (mee-na-kum) because of the M sound for March and the coming of spring. Also remembered กรกฎาคม (ga-rak-a-dar-kum) for July just because it sounded so cool. Had no idea about the pattern in the endings but now it makes sense. Thank you for posting this, very informative.

[Bluesofa]

44 minutes ago, BigHewer said:

In German, there’s a song that begins:

“30 Tage haben September, April, Juni und November…”

Even non German speakers can pick up the rhyme on the two “embers”. 
Also, we were taught to look at the  ridges and peaks in our knuckles side by side from left to right, from the left pinky through to the right ring finger for the “big” and “small” months.

When I went to Thai school in the mid-2000s, I struggled with the months. Could only remember มีนาคม (mee-na-kum) because of the M sound for March and the coming of spring. Also remembered กรกฎาคม (ga-rak-a-dar-kum) for July just because it sounded so cool. Had no idea about the pattern in the endings but now it makes sense. Thank you for posting this, very informative.

In English, it's exactly the same as German, but just spoken, not a song - that's what I learnt anyway.

Regarding learning the Thai months:
When i went to school to learn Thai, I always had to write the current date in words at the top of the page every lesson.
I learnt the current month, then when the next month came along, I learnt that, and promptly forgot the previous month.
Hence my being hard-of-learning.

[DwizzleyMatthews]

My gf came out with an impromptu Thai/English joke just now as we were eating.

Tapping her fish with her fork she said “ people call this Patu, I don’t understand, why call it Patu when there is only one ? “. I laughed.

Obviously in English speaking circles this would be a terrible pun , but she has had a good teacher

[BainaiThai]

All very interesting....for ลูก (look) (child - usually when referring to your own son/daughter)  my Thai wife pronounces it a loo....she swallows the k....and uses that word for baby. 

[Bluesofa]

18 minutes ago, BainaiThai said:

All very interesting....for ลูก (look) (child - usually when referring to your own son/daughter)  my Thai wife pronounces it a loo....she swallows the k....and uses that word for baby. 

Yes, ลูก has quite a few uses apart from child or baby.
The final consonant does tend to be 'swallowed', as you say.

I looked in my dictionary. It can be anything from child, baby, young, fruit, round object, ball, member,

With fruit it can be used as a classifier (to specify quantity). Although it does depend on the type of fruit it's being used to 'count':
สับปะรดสามลูก (sap-a-rot sam luk) three pineapples.
แอปเปิ้ลสองลูก (ab-bun song luk) two apples.
 

[Marble-eye]

1 hour ago, Bluesofa said:

Yes, ลูก has quite a few uses apart from child or baby.
The final consonant does tend to be 'swallowed', as you say.

I looked in my dictionary. It can be anything from child, baby, young, fruit, round object, ball, member,

With fruit it can be used as a classifier (to specify quantity). Although it does depend on the type of fruit it's being used to 'count':
สับปะรดสามลูก (sap-a-rot sam luk) three pineapples.
แอปเปิ้ลสองลูก (ab-bun song luk) two apples.
 

Mrs Marble-eye uses it to call the dog in, ka baan ma loo (not sure of Thai spelling). 

[Volker]

On 12/1/2022 at 3:47 PM, Marble-eye said:

Mrs Marble-eye uses it to call the dog in, ka baan ma loo (not sure of Thai spelling). 

You do not hear the "g" or - better - "k" at the end of "loog" because Thai words ending in p, t or k-sounds end without a release of air. So you start the "k" -sound at the end of "loog", but you end with a glottal stop (closed throat). No air is released which is strange for a native English speaker but normal in Thai.

[Volker]

The same is true for the word you transcribed as "ka", which is "glab" in Thai. The "b" at the end, which becomes actually a "p" is not heard for the same reason, no release of air.

[Bluesofa]

48 minutes ago, Volker said:

You do not hear the "g" or - better - "k" at the end of "loog" because Thai words ending in p, t or k-sounds end without a release of air. So you start the "k" -sound at the end of "loog", but you end with a glottal stop (closed throat). No air is released which is strange for a native English speaker but normal in Thai.

Thanks for posting.
I thought you said in your introduction that your Thai is miserable! I think what you've said is good, and you've got a good understanding of how Thai works already.
Keep posting (and keep cycling too!)

[Volker]

I do not know where to ask, so I do it here: How do you write thai letters here?

I would like to have an on-screen keyboard where I can click the letters with the mouse. Is that possible?

[cowslip]

7 hours ago, Volker said:

I do not know where to ask, so I do it here: How do you write thai letters here?

I would like to have an on-screen keyboard where I can click the letters with the mouse. Is that possible?

lots of on-screen keyboards, I'm sure they will have a Thai option.

[Bluesofa]

19 hours ago, Volker said:

I do not know where to ask, so I do it here: How do you write thai letters here?

I would like to have an on-screen keyboard where I can click the letters with the mouse. Is that possible?

Hello Volker,

The first question I would ask you if what 'device' you have and what type?
Is it a mobile (Android/iPhone) or a laptop/PC (Windows/Mac/Linux)?
Then perhaps we can suggest something.

[Volker]

Sorry BS, I should have mentioned: Laptop, Windows 11, I mainly use Firefox.

Volker

[Bluesofa]

I started searching for a Windows on-screen keyboard.
The first thing I found was an online keyboard you use in your browser (I also use Firefox and it works fine).

https://www.typingkeyboard.com/thai-keyboard/

Obviously as it doesn't install it, then it's dependent on the website running.

I also highlighted the Thai text on the black screen above the keyboard, and found you can copy & paste it elsewhere on your PC.

I hope this helps, at least it will get you started.

I assume you bought your Windows laptop outside Thailand? All the laptops I've seen on sale here come with a Thai/English keyboard.

edit:
I've found a couple more that work the same way. They both support copy & paste too:

https://www.branah.com/thai

https://vkboard.com/virtual-thai-keyboard/

 

[Volker]

The vkboard works perfectly.

Thanks a lot!