Large-scale study shows risk of clots after vaccine far lower than with Covid

[Benroon]

More bad news for the conspiracy theorists, :-

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/large-scale-study-shows-risk-073433972.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYmluZy5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAAqIxleIDPUxNhIHKB_z5BT1mPfB1aeyg7dNRpZlPJNMm5CNVnoye58wRYKOt4xxtMZEOyot-wpZeGos3q75EofqFL01niwbCJM70QXAUN69qlwM7ypGxQQPldCSNjS0Zj-7FHk98Gto_L9WSI-ihc_JO7lRfpj8hs8uNUnnwjtL

The LARGEST ever study (unless 29,000,000 people isn't enough) with enough experts to sink a ship (not randomly picked individuals that have just been fired from a vaccine supplier !)

Focus on the 100,000 more DEAD without the vaccines!

(sits back, popcorn at the ready and awaits a Thailand forum armchair expert to tell us they're all wrong )

[gummy]

12 hours ago, Benroon said:

More bad news for the conspiracy theorists, :-

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/large-scale-study-shows-risk-073433972.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYmluZy5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAAqIxleIDPUxNhIHKB_z5BT1mPfB1aeyg7dNRpZlPJNMm5CNVnoye58wRYKOt4xxtMZEOyot-wpZeGos3q75EofqFL01niwbCJM70QXAUN69qlwM7ypGxQQPldCSNjS0Zj-7FHk98Gto_L9WSI-ihc_JO7lRfpj8hs8uNUnnwjtL

The LARGEST ever study (unless 29,000,000 people isn't enough) with enough experts to sink a ship (not randomly picked individuals that have just been fired from a vaccine supplier !)

Focus on the 100,000 more DEAD without the vaccines!

(sits back, popcorn at the ready and awaits a Thailand forum armchair expert to tell us they're all wrong )

yes the flat earthers, anti vaxers will be now ferreting away to come up with any thing, no matter how unproved, minuscule in scientific fact or irrational,  to dispute all of that.

[AdamX]

12 hours ago, Benroon said:

More bad news for the conspiracy theorists, :-

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/large-scale-study-shows-risk-073433972.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYmluZy5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAAqIxleIDPUxNhIHKB_z5BT1mPfB1aeyg7dNRpZlPJNMm5CNVnoye58wRYKOt4xxtMZEOyot-wpZeGos3q75EofqFL01niwbCJM70QXAUN69qlwM7ypGxQQPldCSNjS0Zj-7FHk98Gto_L9WSI-ihc_JO7lRfpj8hs8uNUnnwjtL

The LARGEST ever study (unless 29,000,000 people isn't enough) with enough experts to sink a ship (not randomly picked individuals that have just been fired from a vaccine supplier !)

Focus on the 100,000 more DEAD without the vaccines!

(sits back, popcorn at the ready and awaits a Thailand forum armchair expert to tell us they're all wrong )

This study proves that there is a non zero chance of death, or damage from the vaccine.

It is for the individual to choose to take the risk, and people should not be bullied,shamed or coerced into injecting thems selves with a vaccine. 

Not an anti-vaxer. just a pro choicer

[Benroon]

4 hours ago, AdamX said:

This study proves that there is a non zero chance of death, or damage from the vaccine.

It is for the individual to choose to take the risk, and people should not be bullied,shamed or coerced into injecting thems selves with a vaccine. 

Not an anti-vaxer. just a pro choicer

That’s a fair enough stance Adam, it was only posted to provide more evidence of the benefits in order to help people make that choice. 

[BlueSphinx]

17 hours ago, Benroon said:

More bad news for the conspiracy theorists, :-

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/large-scale-study-shows-risk-073433972.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYmluZy5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAAqIxleIDPUxNhIHKB_z5BT1mPfB1aeyg7dNRpZlPJNMm5CNVnoye58wRYKOt4xxtMZEOyot-wpZeGos3q75EofqFL01niwbCJM70QXAUN69qlwM7ypGxQQPldCSNjS0Zj-7FHk98Gto_L9WSI-ihc_JO7lRfpj8hs8uNUnnwjtL

The LARGEST ever study (unless 29,000,000 people isn't enough) with enough experts to sink a ship (not randomly picked individuals that have just been fired from a vaccine supplier !)

Focus on the 100,000 more DEAD without the vaccines!

(sits back, popcorn at the ready and awaits a Thailand forum armchair expert to tell us they're all wrong )

Was curious to look into the findings of that largest ever study, but the link provided by the OP is nothing more than a popular article which briefly refers to the findings of that study, but without even providing a link to the study itself.  Can somebody get hold of that study and post it here please. Thanks...

[THETRUTH]

5 hours ago, AdamX said:

This study proves that there is a non zero chance of death, or damage from the vaccine.

It is for the individual to choose to take the risk, and people should not be bullied,shamed or coerced into injecting thems selves with a vaccine. 

Not an anti-vaxer. just a pro choicer

Freedom of choice has got nothing to do with how risky the vaccine is. Your pleas for excuses are really strange.

[Benroon]

55 minutes ago, BlueSphinx said:

Was curious to look into the findings of that largest ever study, but the link provided by the OP is nothing more than a popular article which briefly refers to the findings of that study, but without even providing a link to the study itself.  Can somebody get hold of that study and post it here please. Thanks...

Lol so you’ve reached desperation stage now ? You mean so you can validate all the scientists involved and quoted know what they’re doing right ?  You need to check their work ? Haha 

Good grief give it up - you’re whistling in the wind and you know it. There’s enough in that ‘popular article’ for any normal person to see that. 

29,000,000 people - got anything to beat that ? 

[Smithydog]

1 hour ago, BlueSphinx said:

Was curious to look into the findings of that largest ever study, but the link provided by the OP is nothing more than a popular article which briefly refers to the findings of that study, but without even providing a link to the study itself.  Can somebody get hold of that study and post it here please. Thanks...

Hi @BlueSphinx. Found this in the BMJ when checking the article. Think it is what you are looking for but it does seem to have some other references 

https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1931

Moderator

 

[BlueSphinx]

1 hour ago, Benroon said:

Lol so you’ve reached desperation stage now ? You mean so you can validate all the scientists involved and quoted know what they’re doing right ?  You need to check their work ? Haha 

 

50 minutes ago, Smithydog said:

2 hours ago, BlueSphinx said:

Was curious to look into the findings of that largest ever study, but the link provided by the OP is nothing more than a popular article which briefly refers to the findings of that study, but without even providing a link to the study itself.  Can somebody get hold of that study and post it here please. Thanks...

Hi @BlueSphinx. Found this in the BMJ when checking the article. Think it is what you are looking for but it does seem to have some other references 

https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1931

Thanks @Smithydog for providing the original BMJ study.  When I read and interpret the findings and conclusions of that study correctly, it looks like the header of the article posted by @Benroon is misleading.  That header reads > Large-scale study shows risk of clots after vaccine far lower than with Covid, so you would think reading that at face value that the vaccine helps in reducing the risk of clots.  But that is  NOTwhat the study finds.

The study concludes that

#1 - there is a small but not insignificant INCREASED risk of developing blood-clots in the 28 days after taking the vaccine;

#2 - that the risk of #1 is approx 9 times smaller than when getting infected with covid.

Now if the vaccine would stop the vaccinated from ever catching covid, the 'header' conclusion would be valid.  But of course that is not the case.  When vaccinated you can still get covid-infected as the delta-variant figures clearly indicate.  And the proportional number of delta-variant infections in the vaxxed/unvaxxed is approx same.

So it is misleading to compare the risk of blood-clots when vaccinated with the risk of blood-clots when being covid-infected.  These two events are not mutually exclusive. When the risk of blood-clots in the delta-variant infected is approx same between vaxxed and unvaxxed, the vaxxed have actually a higher risk of developing blood-clots (first because of the effect of the vax and then when covid-infected).

NOTE: I have an open mind so if I mis-read or mis-interpreted the study, I would appreciate being corrected.  Attached the study in PDF-format.

Risk of thrombocytopenia and thromboembolism after covid-19 - BMJ dd 27 Aug 2021.pdf

[Faraday]

3 hours ago, THETRUTH said:

Freedom of choice has got nothing to do with how risky the vaccine is. Your pleas for excuses are really strange.

Do you think then that 'Freedom of choice' is reached in a arbitrary way, or is it based on critical thinking - however faulty you might perceive it to be?

 

[THETRUTH]

26 minutes ago, Faraday said:

Do you think then that 'Freedom of choice' is reached in a arbitrary way, or is it based on critical thinking - however faulty you might perceive it to be?

Freedom of choice is the freedom to choose. Always. No exceptions. This guy claimed to be "pro-choice" but his argumentation made it look like he only supports the freedom in this particular case because there is a tiny risk of side effects involved. That isn't "pro-choice", it's hypocricy. Similar to "freedom of speech" but only if you withhold from saying bad things.

Edited August 28, 2021 by THETRUTH

[Benroon]

8 hours ago, BlueSphinx said:

Thanks @Smithydog for providing the original BMJ study.  When I read and interpret the findings and conclusions of that study correctly, it looks like the header of the article posted by @Benroon is misleading.  That header reads > Large-scale study shows risk of clots after vaccine far lower than with Covid, so you would think reading that at face value that the vaccine helps in reducing the risk of clots.  But that is  NOTwhat the study finds.

The study concludes that

#1 - there is a small but not insignificant INCREASED risk of developing blood-clots in the 28 days after taking the vaccine;

#2 - that the risk of #1 is approx 9 times smaller than when getting infected with covid.

Now if the vaccine would stop the vaccinated from ever catching covid, the 'header' conclusion would be valid.  But of course that is not the case.  When vaccinated you can still get covid-infected as the delta-variant figures clearly indicate.  And the proportional number of delta-variant infections in the vaxxed/unvaxxed is approx same.

So it is misleading to compare the risk of blood-clots when vaccinated with the risk of blood-clots when being covid-infected.  These two events are not mutually exclusive. When the risk of blood-clots in the delta-variant infected is approx same between vaxxed and unvaxxed, the vaxxed have actually a higher risk of developing blood-clots (first because of the effect of the vax and then when covid-infected).

NOTE: I have an open mind so if I mis-read or mis-interpreted the study, I would appreciate being corrected.  Attached the study in PDF-format.

Risk of thrombocytopenia and thromboembolism after covid-19 - BMJ dd 27 Aug 2021.pdf 445.68 kB · 0 downloads

Pure waffle!

For your own credibility, throw in the towel chap. 

[BlueSphinx]

1 hour ago, Benroon said:

Pure waffle!

For your own credibility, throw in the towel chap. 

Would appreciate if you could put your 'explanatory cream' on my waffle and tell where I misread/misinterpreted the study.

And this is a dialogue/discussion and not a boxing match where one has to throw the towel.

[Bob20]

On 8/29/2021 at 5:17 AM, Benroon said:

Pure waffle!

For your own credibility, throw in the towel chap. 

 

He won't stop and the waffle has nothing to do with facts. Just ignore the conspiracists for a more logical discussion I can't read their message because I block them, but your topic and post are clear.

Simple analogy: Consider the vaccine as a seatbelt.

If you have the same number of car-crashes, the ones wearing a seatbelt will have a less severe effect from the crash in most cases. There are always exceptions, but the general effect is proven.

That's the principle of the vaccine.

They can all throw a tantrum, but over 1.2b mRNA vaccine doses are given, with mountains of research data and great results. Meanwhile they endanger others with their falsehoods. Oh, and when it goes wrong, oops: "doctor please help me because I was a silly boy". 

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by Bob20

[BlueSphinx]

36 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

He won't stop and the waffle has nothing to do with facts. Just ignore the conspiracists for a more logical discussion I can't read their message because I block them, but your topic and post are clear.

Simple analogy: Consider the vaccine as a seatbelt.

If you have the same number of car-crashes, the ones wearing a seatbelt will have a less severe effect from the crash in most cases. There are always exceptions, but the general effect is proven.

That's the principle of the vaccine.

They can all throw a tantrum, but over 1.2b mRNA vaccine doses are given, with mountains of research data and great results. Meanwhile they endanger others with their falsehoods. Oh, and when it goes wrong, oops: "doctor please help me because I was a silly boy". 

 

Nice analogy > consider the vaccine as a seatbelt.  

But it is a very special 'seatbelt'.  An experimental one which you cannot even take off once you did put it on.  And that non-removable seatbelt carries the risk of serious side-effects, either in the hours/days/weeks/months after you put it on or in the longer-term (the surprise factor).  And this amazing seatbelt does not even fully protect you from an accident (catching covid), it only reduces the severity when you do catch it.  The large majority of people easily survive a covid-accident without the seatbelt (some didn't even notice they had 'the accident').  Also the not fully protective effectiveness of the belt is fading after 6 months, triggering the need for booster seatbelts (every time with ever greater risk of serious side-effects when putting it on).  And last but not least that experimental seatbelt does not stop transmissibility which is same as those not wearing one (actually it augments it because of the symptom suppression). 

Truly a wonderful product!  So, everybody queue up to get it - if not voluntarily then mandatory...

 

[Zool]

On 8/29/2021 at 6:42 AM, BlueSphinx said:

Would appreciate if you could put your 'explanatory cream' on my waffle and tell where I misread/misinterpreted the study.

And this is a dialogue/discussion and not a boxing match where one has to throw the towel.

You 2 should get a room. 

[BlueSphinx]

14 minutes ago, Zool said:

You 2 should get a room. 

Naaaah, he will scream that it is unfair.  Because I would be unvaxxed and not wearing a mask, so even in the unlikely case that he wins, he would be so terrified of being infected that he would cower in the corner...

[DwizzleyMatthews]

Mmmmm waffles

 

Unless they are blue of course !!

 

[Benroon]

1 hour ago, BlueSphinx said:

Naaaah, he will scream that it is unfair.  Because I would be unvaxxed and not wearing a mask, so even in the unlikely case that he wins, he would be so terrified of being infected that he would cower in the corner...

Whatever you’re taking, can you bring some to the room. 

Wins what ?