News Forum - US records over 100,000 patients hospitalised with Covid-19

[Bob20]

42 minutes ago, Meechai said:

Hahah are you JingThing from the other forum?

Yes not "peer reviewed" does not mean this Oxford study was not conducted does it?

It is amazing how the cancel culture folks want to silence some & yet the other side of their mouths have no problem with say...Administering 200 million vaccines out in USA before even approved? Where those peer reviewed? Yeah didnt think so yet that was ok fine?

That cancel crap aside I could care less as I said what we see here in the USA is what that Oxford study also found......period

 

You clearly know nothing about research and science.

An as yet unpublished preprint paper is no more than someone's "opinion" until it is reviewed and becomes part of consensus.

And learn to do some analytical thinking. 

You're complaining about the cancel culture, but I'm dismissing the, as yet, unproven paper on the rules for researchers.

You're claiming to be right and dismissing things because you jump up and down with no backing.

Now who is cancelling here? 

(And no, I'm not whoever you quoted)

 

Edited August 28, 2021 by Bob20

[BlueSphinx]

9 minutes ago, DiggR said:

So here is the flip side of the fake news "lies" as you put it:

97.8% of covid patients are unvaccinated

99.5% of ICU patients are unvaccinated

99.8% of resperator patients are unvaccinated

Scare tactics?, yup, aimed at those unwilling to face reality and the real world benefits of acknowledging and following science.

Those choosing not to vaccinate face health, social and monetary consequences, the price of "freedom".

Without providing the SOURCE of that information (including the COUNTRY/state/region and TIME-period), these figures are worthless.  For all I know they could be from 2020 and thus correct because from before the vaccine roll-out.  

Note: The CDC did try - and to a degree succeeded - in playing that little trick on the gullible, by stating that 95% of the deaths/hospitalizations were in the unvaccinated (but by using a data-period starting January 2021 with very little vaccinations done at the start of the roll-out and by using only 'fully vaccinated' (i.e. + 14 days after 2nd shot) as criterion). 

[billywillyjones]

The vaccines can provide an immune system boost in the very short term however this decreases rapidly and booster shots will be required.  However, they do not stop transmission of the virus and may actually increase it due to leaky vaccines.  And natural immune response and certain drugs will defeat the virus without inocculation in the vast majority of cases.

All scientific data is in the short term as the long term testing has not been done due to the rushed vaccines.

So the question is why vaccinate yourself with an untested product that could prove harmful in the future?  However, if you are elderly, overly anxious, scared or have dangerous preconditions this is more understandable.  However, you will certainly be rollng the dice.

 https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/08/grim-warning-israel-vaccination-blunts-does-not-defeat-delta

https://www.visiontimes.com/2021/08/08/israel-hospital-vaccinated.html

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762

 

[Bob20]

34 minutes ago, dmacarelli said:

Darwin was correct. Many of the most adamant anti-vax people end up in critical condition, in a hospital, and then start saying how wrong they were, and how everyone should get vaccinated. Amusing at best. Very sad really.

If a kindergartner has the courage to get a vaccine before starting school, what does that make an adult, who refuses?

Yup, here's a few. Thousands more if you can be bothered.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_7BQRcBSIY&t=14s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmmelWHeAKc&t=25s

 

Edited August 28, 2021 by Bob20

[AdamX]

21 hours ago, AlexPTY said:

I saw that more than 80 percent of hospitalized are not vaccinated and those are not vaccinated by choice. Sorry, have no pity for those.

Do you have pity for the thousands with blood clots, bell palsy and other vaccine damage?

[Bob20]

3 minutes ago, billywillyjones said:

The vaccines can provide an immune system boost in the very short term however this decreases rapidly and booster shots will be required.  However, they do not stop transmission of the virus and may actually increase it due to leaky vaccines.  And natural immune response and certain drugs will defeat the virus without inocculation in the vast majority of cases.

All scientific data is in the short term as the long term testing has not been done due to the rushed vaccines.

So the question is why vaccinate yourself with an untested product that could prove harmful in the future?  However, if you are elderly, overly anxious, scared or have dangerous preconditions this is more understandable.  However, you will certainly be rollng the dice.

 https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/08/grim-warning-israel-vaccination-blunts-does-not-defeat-delta

https://www.visiontimes.com/2021/08/08/israel-hospital-vaccinated.html

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762

Keep spouting the same nonsense that has been disproven, yet not preventing you from repeating it over and over again.

Don't you know how silly that makes you look?

Stick to your CCC knitting club.

[BlueSphinx]

4 hours ago, dmacarelli said:

Darwin was correct. Many of the most adamant anti-vax people end up in critical condition, in a hospital, and then start saying how wrong they were, and how everyone should get vaccinated. Amusing at best. Very sad really.

If a kindergartner has the courage to get a vaccine before starting school, what does that make an adult, who refuses?

Do you have any actual figures of how many are those 'most adamant anti-vax people' in critical condition in hospital? 

Would be useful to compare those figures with the covid-vaccine adverse effect reports as submitted to the US VAERS, EU EudraVigilance and UK Yellow Cards systems (which are under-reported by the way).

 

Edited August 28, 2021 by Smithydog
Misinformation about Vaers data removed

[billywillyjones]

3 hours ago, BlueSphinx said:

Do you have any actual figures of how many are those 'most adamant anti-vax people' in critical condition in hospital? 

Would be useful to compare those figures with the covid-vaccine adverse effect reports as submitted to the US VAERS, EU EudraVigilance and UK Yellow Cards systems (which are under-reported by the way).

 

He has nothing to back up those ridiculous statements.  Those refusing the vaccine are actually the brave ones and it is those rushing to get vaccinated  are  the ones behaving like frightened children.  The true conspiracy lies in how people have been manipulated to overreact to this virus.  Their paniced responses are reminiscent of Orson Welles UFO radio broadcast.

Edited August 28, 2021 by Smithydog
Misleading section of quote removed by Moderators

[JamesE]

58 minutes ago, DiggR said:

monetary consequences,

This is the thing that the "Freedom of Choice" crowd are in denial about. Your freedom of choice ends, in the US, when the hospital bill comes due. There are going to be millions of COVID bankruptcies, or worse, of people that just can't pay their medical bills. An ICU bed - after insurance - costs thousands of dollars a day. Then put the treatment costs on top of that. The medicines on top of that. Most of these cases are in places that chose not to expand their public health systems when the feds were offering to pay for it. They turned away $BILLIONS that would expand coverage and provide a safety net for the un- and under-insured. Because, "Freedom of Choice". All those people are screwed right now. Right now there are over 22,000 "COVID Medical Bills" and the same of "COVID Medical Expenses" GoFundMe requests. These people in Florida, Arkansas, and Texas are in for some big surprises.

Edited August 28, 2021 by JamesE
Added detail

[AdamX]

8 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

Keep spouting the same nonsense that has been disproven, yet not preventing you from repeating it over and over again.

Don't you know how silly that makes you look?

Stick to your CCC knitting club.

I think that ad hominium responses makes people look silly

[BlueSphinx]

9 minutes ago, billywillyjones said:

The vaccines can provide an immune system boost in the very short term however this decreases rapidly and booster shots will be required.  However, they do not stop transmission of the virus and may actually increase it due to leaky vaccines.  And natural immune response and certain drugs will defeat the virus without inocculation in the vast majority of cases.

All scientific data is in the short term as the long term testing has not been done due to the rushed vaccines.

So the question is why vaccinate yourself with an untested product that could prove harmful in the future?  However, if you are elderly, overly anxious, scared or have dangerous preconditions this is more understandable.  However, you will certainly be rollng the dice.

 https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/08/grim-warning-israel-vaccination-blunts-does-not-defeat-delta

https://www.visiontimes.com/2021/08/08/israel-hospital-vaccinated.html

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/309762

Thanks.  You wrote: So the question is why vaccinate yourself with an untested product that could prove harmful in the future?  However, if you are elderly, overly anxious, scared or have dangerous preconditions this is more understandable.  However, you will certainly be rolling the dice. 

Thailand as usual is always in for a gamble.  And is planning to innoculate 4 MILLION students in course of september (before school re-opening), using the Pfizer mRNA jabs - a 'gift' from the USA.  Young people are hardly at risk from covid-19, so why expose them to the unknown long-term adverse effect risks from these jabs?   And while they are at it, they also plan to use those Pfizer mRNA jabs to innoculate pregnant women!

 

[Donald]

22 hours ago, AlexPTY said:

I saw that more than 80 percent of hospitalized are not vaccinated and those are not vaccinated by choice. Sorry, have no pity for those.

I hope you are not one of those expats who are constantly sitting with his peers indulging in alcohol and other unhealthy lifestyles like unprotected sex with strangers. Otherwise I should feel no pity with you when you contract hepatitis, cancer, HIV or some other horrible condition because of your behavior.

[dmacarelli]

3 hours ago, BlueSphinx said:

Do you have any actual figures of how many are those 'most adamant anti-vax people' in critical condition in hospital? 

Would be useful to compare those figures with the covid-vaccine adverse effect reports as submitted to the US VAERS, EU EudraVigilance and UK Yellow Cards systems (which are under-reported by the way).

 

That quote means nothing. As there is nothing in the way of clinical studies of the adverse effects, and we have no idea who those people are, what they suffered from, or any other data. What we do know is that the anti-vax movement is using stats such as these, to create fear, and discourage society from being reasonable, and doing what it can to prevent further spread. 

Let's deal with facts for a moment. We do know that 5.13 billion have received at least one dose worldwide, and 1.96 billion have been fully vaccinated, according to multiple sources. If you take a body of 2 billion people, 1.5 million or one tenth of one percent, are going to get sick from something every year. Was it the vaccine? Do we know? Will we ever know?

The 15,000 deaths are far less interesting, as they represent less deaths than would normally occur, from such a huge population group. In 2015, 55 million people died of something worldwide. That is about 4.6 million people per month. So, the 15,000 means less than zero, within a group that huge, lacking any clinical evidence.

I am far more interested in science, than I am in fear mongering. And even though I am not a VAX guy, I feel at this time, getting a high quality vaccine represents a reasonable fulfillment of an obligation to society, and a minor sacrifice for anti-vax people to make. Doubly so for the ones who run around draping themselves in a flag of patriotism. 

I know you think you're being brave by doing this based on a "principle," but are you at least as brave as a kindergartener? 

A friend of mine was invited to a baby shower in the US. They sent me this message. 

Melanie is invited to a baby shower where both the mommy to be and her husband are determined anti-Vaxxers.  Everybody going to the party has been vaccinated. The host is requiring all guests, who have already been vaccinated, to take a Covid test before they come because they have not been vaccinated and won’t do so.

Huh? Because of your stubborn sense of entitlement, you want every guest to get tested before coming? America the beautiful. LOL. 

 

Edited August 28, 2021 by Smithydog
Misleading section of quote removed by Moderators

[Smithydog]

 

The Moderators have observed members continuing to use VAERS and Eudravigilance data to support opinions as to adverse vaccine effects, including deaths. Both of these sites have clear disclaimers advising this is not possible to be done on the data solely, as shown below.

VAERS Disclaimer highlighting this:

“VAERS accepts reports of adverse events and reactions that occur following vaccination. Healthcare providers, vaccine manufacturers, and the public can submit reports to the system. While very important in monitoring vaccine safety, VAERS reports alone cannot be used to determine if a vaccine caused or contributed to an adverse event or illness.” 

https://vaers.hhs.gov/data.html

 Eudravigilance Disclaimer highlighting this:

“The information on this website relates to suspected side effects , i.e. medical events that have been observed following the use of a medicine, but which are not necessarily related to or caused by the medicine.

Information on suspected side effects should not be interpreted as meaning that the medicine or the active substance causes the observed effect or is unsafe to use. Only a detailed evaluation and scientific assessment of all available data allows for robust conclusions to be drawn on the benefits and risks of a medicine.”

 https://www.adrreports.eu/en/index.html

 Moderators have issued both general and specific member warnings about quoting such data like this. We cannot allow such unsupported opinions to continue to be posted in view of these specific disclaimers from these sources.

 Applicable posts will be edited by the Moderators to remove such claims. Members continuing to offer or quote such “evidence” in their opinions are warned they may be subject to further Moderation.  

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