News Forum - Australia and New Zealand consider just living with Covid-19

[KaptainRob]

14 minutes ago, snapdragon said:

I've seen the footage of the police behaviour. It's not so good. But these countries (modern history) were built on dissenters; people who went against the narratives, and these traits are passed down the generations.

Separate countries, different governance.  The above is obviously a reference to Australia although "traits passed down" is an insult to everyone's intelligence.  Majority of protesters were from recent immigrant communities, not all from British convict settlers 

 

19 minutes ago, snapdragon said:

The actions of the authorities have been beamed all around the world now. There is no hiding the fact that these wonderful people are being ordered what to do by numpties

Comrade Ardern is f****ing NZ over, that's a given.  Australia's ScoMo is even putting her down whilst ignoring his own failures or perhaps trying to deflect from them. 

[SnapDragon]

11 minutes ago, KaptainRob said:

Separate countries, different governance.  The above is obviously a reference to Australia although "traits passed down" is an insult to everyone's intelligence.

Can't agree there Mr Rob.

How do you think religion survives? It is passed down from parents. Traits, such as not believing authority, or not thinking that everything on MSM, o rin  newspapers, is true, are the same.

In these extraordinary times, it's the people who can disregard orders from obviously compromised authorities, that will see us through this madness, into sanity.

With the Oz situation; I'm dismayed at the stance taken by the thuggish police. It was only a short while ago that they got the support of the people for a pay-rise.

Edited August 26, 2021 by snapdragon

[BlueSphinx]

43 minutes ago, snapdragon said:

Thanks for that Mr Zool. I didn't know and I will investigate. ...

Hi Snap > here an article News-channel posting published yesterday addressing the planned Australian truckers action to 'shut down the country'.  It also contains the 1.5 minute clip with a trucker urging people to stock up on food because of their upcoming action.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/on-the-road/police-aware-of-rogue-truckie-protest-circulating-on-social-media/news-story/15104ca03f7aac151a76b176952c6ecf

[Poolie]

3 hours ago, HiuMak said:

I don't see the protest in Bangkok and other parts of Thailand soar cases, in fact new cases went down. Must be the smoke bombs 

Gather in LARGE groups, I think you'll find he said.

[Donald]

2 hours ago, Zool said:

Enough already. The entire world is in the grip of a death-cult, locked down for over a year and destroyed countless lives and businesses. Open up the world. Let the people who are afraid stay home and cry and hide under the covers but let the rest of the world go back to living. You would have to have the intelligence of a potato to think more of what hasn't worked so far, is going to work now.

Very sensible comment. I am surprised you haven't yet been publicly shamed, tarred and feathered though. Anything that goes against the government and main stream media narrative is vehemently suppressed, censored and outright criminalized. Since day one there has been absolutely no discussion and even the opinion of very qualified people was ignored and not allowed to be heard. Michael Yeadon (ex vice president of Pfizer and chief scientist) interview "We are standing at the very gates of hell" would be a suggestion, or the one where the developer of the mRNA vaccine Robert Malone warns about the vaccine. To get the vaccination is and should remain a personal issue taken after ALL the information is made available and without coercion threat or social exclusion. Since now it is general knowledge that the vaccination does not protect from getting the virus, nor does it protect others from getting infected it's use is at least questionable. If it proves to prevent more serious consequences and reduces hospitalizations, then the unvaccinated are not posing a threat to them and should not being pressurized in getting the vaccine.

[Donald]

The countries with draconian lock downs and consequent low Corona virus spread last year are now among those with the highest rates in the world. Examples Georgia and Thailand. Those that had little measures in place have the opposite situation. It is clear that a minimalistic  approach where a controlled spread and tackling the medical fall out would have been the wiser solution.  It looks to me that the virus will spread whatever we do. A bit like climate change. Instead of bickering over who or what is responsible, we should start to live with the consequences and try to make the best out of a bad situation.

[SnapDragon]

36 minutes ago, Donald said:

The countries with draconian lock downs and consequent low Corona virus spread last year are now among those with the highest rates in the world. Examples Georgia and Thailand. Those that had little measures in place have the opposite situation. It is clear that a minimalistic  approach where a controlled spread and tackling the medical fall out would have been the wiser solution.  It looks to me that the virus will spread whatever we do. A bit like climate change. Instead of bickering over who or what is responsible, we should start to live with the consequences and try to make the best out of a bad situation.

Like it.

There are some dangerous world moves afoot IMO. C-19 has/is simply being used as a stepping stone to consolidate the new world order; commonly called 2030. It came too early for many sections of the elite societies. For one, they lagged behind the Chinese in 5G technology. And they have not yet managed to eradicate dissenting voices through technology.

The plan was to get everyone to believe in the principle that a vaccine passbook/passport was a necessary thing; for the good of our health. Once that was in place then digitalising currencies would follow.

There is more, much more, including food supply manipulation, land grabbing, smaller companies being gobbled up by the big 'uns, depopulation and  ???; you name it!

The world is being made filthy by Big industry, Big pharma, Big governments and world orgaisations like the WTO, the WHO and the military complexes. This C-19 madness could turn out to be a positive thing. If the cracks in the dam become splits and the water cannot be held back any more, there could be massive changes to come.

Along the way many people will die. IMO, the ones that have already been jib-jabbed will soon no longer be with us.

As you rightly point out Mr Donald; people are being indoctrinated into believing that being free; to speak, talk and think is some kind of privilege.

Edited August 26, 2021 by snapdragon

[Soidog]

4 hours ago, Zool said:

You would have to have the intelligence of a potato to think more of what hasn't worked so far, is going to work now.

What is it you think hasn’t worked so far? If you are referring to lockdowns then you are wrong. The aim of a lockdown is to keep case numbers low, not to eradicate the virus. It’s worked everywhere. The proof being that as soon as you ease lockdown or restrictions (such as in Thailand) the virus surges. Maybe you are referring to something else that hasn’t worked? 

[Soidog]

2 hours ago, Donald said:

A bit like climate change. Instead of bickering over who or what is responsible, we should start to live with the consequences and try to make the best out of a bad situation.

Yes totally agree with that. We are however along way from that. If a country like Thailand who needs tourism can’t even understand that it won’t stop this virus, and people who are fully vaccinated cause a much lower risk than the local population, then what chance do we have. As things look, we are going to have travel restrictions and problems for the coming years. There are only two broad strategies to controlling a virus, or mitigating it’s impact on healthcare systems. Lockdowns and vaccinations. So  lockdowns have kept it at bay as best we can until the vaccines have arrived. Now people are being vaccinated, let’s get back to normal. Hopefully when Thailand and others countries have better vaccination levels we will return to some form of normality. I’m not holding my breath…..

[JackIsAGoodBoy]

28 minutes ago, Soidog said:

What is it you think hasn’t worked so far? If you are referring to lockdowns then you are wrong. The aim of a lockdown is to keep case numbers low, not to eradicate the virus. It’s worked everywhere. The proof being that as soon as you ease lockdown or restrictions (such as in Thailand) the virus surges. Maybe you are referring to something else that hasn’t worked? 

Except the surges came AFTER the lockdown measures in early July.  Majority of cases in August despite of even stricter measures like hair salons shutdown. You are so biased you do not want to see anything else other than vaccines and lockdowns supposedly working.

[BlueSphinx]

39 minutes ago, Soidog said:

...There are only two broad strategies to controlling a virus, or mitigating it’s impact on healthcare systems. Lockdowns and vaccinations. So  lockdowns have kept it at bay as best we can until the vaccines have arrived. Now people are being vaccinated, let’s get back to normal. Hopefully when Thailand and others countries have better vaccination levels we will return to some form of normality. I’m not holding my breath…..

What about the 3rd strategy of focused protection for those at highest risk (which may include vaccination), combined with preventive/remedial covid-19 cures for anybody else that catches it and whose symptoms require treatment...

[Soidog]

4 hours ago, JackIsAGoodBoy said:

Except the surges came AFTER the lockdown measures in early July.  Majority of cases in August despite of even stricter measures like hair salons shutdown. You are so biased you do not want to see anything else other than vaccines and lockdowns supposedly working.

Which country are we talking about here? Everywhere I’ve seen work like this:

Cases increase  Governments delay too long. Then they go in to lockdown. Cases carry on rising for 1-2 months. Then the effects of lockdown start to work. Cases fall. Governments release lockdown too early. A month later cases increase again. Nothing magic about that. I’m not biased, I simply believe what I see. 

[Soidog]

4 hours ago, BlueSphinx said:

What about the 3rd strategy of focused protection for those at highest risk (which may include vaccination), combined with preventive/remedial covid-19 cures for anybody else that catches it and whose symptoms require treatment...

Yes I’m good with that. If you know of any medically proven preventative measures then of course you would support that. The trouble is none have been shown to work in any controlled test. I know you will say Ivermectin, but I’m not going to self medicate using a drug that medical experts are warning against. 

[Rain]

It's not disappearing anytime soon. 

Presumed to get worse, multiplied.

Best to settle in.

Nature will have the last word, as she's not finished with her cleansing and manipulating ways.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Rain

[BlueSphinx]

13 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Yes I’m good with that. If you know of any medically proven preventative measures then of course you would support that. The trouble is none have been shown to work in any controlled test. I know you will say Ivermectin, but I’m not going to self medicate using a drug that medical experts are warning against. 

https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/FLCCC-Protocols-–-A-Guide-to-the-Management-of-COVID-19.pdf   + 

https://c19early.com/   +  

https://www.thedesertreview.com/opinion/columnists/indias-ivermectin-blackout/article_e3db8f46-f942-11eb-9eea-77d5e2519364.html

[Soidog]

3 minutes ago, BlueSphinx said:

https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/FLCCC-Protocols-–-A-Guide-to-the-Management-of-COVID-19.pdf

https://c19early.com/

https://www.thedesertreview.com/opinion/columnists/indias-ivermectin-blackout/article_e3db8f46-f942-11eb-9eea-77d5e2519364.html

@BlueSphinx  the first document is 57 pages long and I don’t have time to read and digest and critique it. The second document start with this comment:

Analysis of the efficacy of early treatments for COVID-19.Treatments do not replace vaccines and other measures.  So enough said as this is treatment and not a preventative measure to stop or protect you catching Covid. 
 

The third document is the usual conspiracy theory diatribe introduction. Governments hiding things. People not being allowed to publish etc etc. Silly stuff. 
 

I’ll take a better look at the first document later. I’m happy to learn anything new, but I’m not having my opinion shifted by conspiracy nonsense. 

[Stardust]

How many people are dying because of the flue and how many people are dying about a accident, especially with the motorbikes in Thailand? Before they never cared about that and now they go crazy about covid? And who messed up the vaccination? Something really go wrong in Thailand!

[AussieBob]

10 hours ago, BlueSphinx said:

@AussieBob > Imo @Ttalk nailed it perfectly.  Indeed, just look at what is happening in Israel, with almost 80% of the eligible population and 60% of the total population fully vaccinated.  Or Gibraltar with +99% of their population fully vaxxed. 

The uncomfortable truth - long known and warned for by virologists/epidemiologists, but over-ruled by Big Pharma greedy for making Big Bucks in this crisis - is that mass-vaccination actually triggers new variants that are more resistent or even immune to the vaccines. 

So not only can the vaccines not provide a permanent solution (hence the need for booster shots, that will once again trigger new variants), but they put the vaccinated at ever bigger risk with every new jab.  And this on top of the long-term vaccine adverse effects that nobody knows how that will pack out (but it sure does not look good...).

One of the upsides to living in the world's biggest Nanny state (Australia) is that because the Govt runs most parts of our lives, and all of the medical services provided right across the country, is that the information is recorded about exactly what is happening regarding Covid.

This is from the Australian Chief Medical Officer press conference on 22 August 2021 about coronavirus (COVID-19).  Quote:  "We know the majority of deaths and the majority of ICU admissions have been in unvaccinated or partially vaccinated people"

Chief Medical Officer Professor Paul Kelly's press conference about COVID-19 – 22 August 2021 | Australian Government Department of Health

This report linked below clearly details that the reason vaccinated people are getting more infections in Israel and USA etc. is because there are far more vaccinated people than there are unvaccinated people. The issue is not vaccines is not about a cure - vaccines help most people avoid the virus symptoms completely (their immune system deals with it quickly) and the vast majority of those that get it and do become sick but are prevented from getting seriously ill/dying. 

Why you shouldn't be concerned when more vaccinated people are getting infected than unvaccinated - ABC News

But as you say, there is no doubt the vaccine 'industry' is making a killing and will continue to play it all up, as will the media who of course like nothing more than people dying because their ratings go up in bad times.  If Aust/NZ have declared that they will need to live with it, then the only question becomes when. Before Delta hit they were talking of backing off at 70% vaccinated, but now it seems the number has magically changed to 80%.  As with all Govt programs and public/media panics, the easiest part is to start them, but the hardest part is to stop them. 

Does mass vaccinations cause mutations to develop in a virus?  There is no clear proof one way or the other, but there is evidence to support both sides of the discussion.  Overall I think that the Delta variation mutated in India not because of mass vaccinations (there were not that many vaccinated) but because of the mass infections - it spread so fast so quick that the virus had a massive pool of millions infected all at once.  Anecdotal evidence is that the Spanish Flu kept mutating and that was why there was at least 3 global waves of infections (they didn't know about viral mutations back then). 

 

[Stonker]

10 hours ago, Stardust said:

Specialist warning already that this also can trigger in future heavy flu pandemics or other sickness.

Flu deaths in Thailand went down to one tenth of the normal number last year. which was put down to mask wearing and increased hygiene.

Pretty much the complete reverse of what you're saying may happen.

[Soidog]

7 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

One of the upsides to living in the world's biggest Nanny state (Australia) is that because the Govt runs most parts of our lives, and all of the medical services provided right across the country, is that the information is recorded about exactly what is happening regarding Covid.

This is from the Australian Chief Medical Officer press conference on 22 August 2021 about coronavirus (COVID-19).  Quote:  "We know the majority of deaths and the majority of ICU admissions have been in unvaccinated or partially vaccinated people"

Chief Medical Officer Professor Paul Kelly's press conference about COVID-19 – 22 August 2021 | Australian Government Department of Health

This report linked below clearly details that the reason vaccinated people are getting more infections in Israel and USA etc. is because there are far more vaccinated people than there are unvaccinated people. The issue is not vaccines is not about a cure - vaccines help most people avoid the virus symptoms completely (their immune system deals with it quickly) and the vast majority of those that get it and do become sick but are prevented from getting seriously ill/dying. 

Why you shouldn't be concerned when more vaccinated people are getting infected than unvaccinated - ABC News

But as you say, there is no doubt the vaccine 'industry' is making a killing and will continue to play it all up, as will the media who of course like nothing more than people dying because their ratings go up in bad times.  If Aust/NZ have declared that they will need to live with it, then the only question becomes when. Before Delta hit they were talking of backing off at 70% vaccinated, but now it seems the number has magically changed to 80%.  As with all Govt programs and public/media panics, the easiest part is to start them, but the hardest part is to stop them. 

Does mass vaccinations cause mutations to develop in a virus?  There is no clear proof one way or the other, but there is evidence to support both sides of the discussion.  Overall I think that the Delta variation mutated in India not because of mass vaccinations (there were not that many vaccinated) but because of the mass infections - it spread so fast so quick that the virus had a massive pool of millions infected all at once.  Anecdotal evidence is that the Spanish Flu kept mutating and that was why there was at least 3 global waves of infections (they didn't know about viral mutations back then). 

Spot on @AussieBob  says it all in my view

[Stonker]

5 hours ago, BlueSphinx said:

What about the 3rd strategy of focused protection for those at highest risk (which may include vaccination), combined with preventive/remedial covid-19 cures for anybody else that catches it and whose symptoms require treatment...

What about it?

As has been explained before, countless times, ad nauseam, "those at highest risk" make up over a third of the population so "focused protection" is impossible.

Ignoring reality and repeating the question doesn't change that.

[AussieBob]

50 minutes ago, BlueSphinx said:

https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/FLCCC-Protocols-–-A-Guide-to-the-Management-of-COVID-19.pdf   + 

https://c19early.com/   +  

https://www.thedesertreview.com/opinion/columnists/indias-ivermectin-blackout/article_e3db8f46-f942-11eb-9eea-77d5e2519364.html

Seen some of these documents before and scanned though them.  Clearly there is evidence that supports the hypothesis that the current 'official' treatments for Covid could be enhanced and even improved through the use of additional medications.  However, medical officials in the west are extremely reluctant to give treatments that have not been officially prescribed and approved - because of both the threats of being sued if things go wrong, and the threat of losing their licence.  To example: If a doctor decided to give non-approved medication A to 100 patients and 98 survived, there is nothing to stop the families of patient 99 and 100 (who died) from suing and they will probably win too.  

The 'medicine industry' needs to be reformed I reckon and things like unpatented medications being tested for use in treating patients under controlled clinical trials - funded by Govts should be looked into.  No company is going to pay for a non-patented medication because the current system means that medical companies will only pay money to put medications through tests/trials that they can get patented - they spend $billions each year on research and trials/tests and the majority fail to get through - they need to be able to make money for 20 years and the costs of successful drugs have to pay for the unsuccessful ones.  There is a saying - the road to Hell is paved with good intentions - whatever educated idiots decided it was best to reduce the drugs patent period from 50 years to 20 years, overlooked the fact that going forward more and more drugs will need to be developed and the costs of development and tests and trials were going to massively increase and that drug companies need to know they have 50 years profits to pay for their research and development and testing/trials - prices would be much lower if they did and more research and trials would be done.  

[Stonker]

8 hours ago, Donald said:

The countries with draconian lock downs and consequent low Corona virus spread last year are now among those with the highest rates in the world. Examples Georgia and Thailand. 

"Draconian lockdowns last year" ?

In Thailand?

You must have been in a different Thailand, or in a different time warp.

In this one people weren't in a "draconian lockdown" but were being encouraged to travel up to and including Songkran this year, which is one of the reasons for the current problem.

[BlueSphinx]

47 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

...

This is from the Australian Chief Medical Officer press conference on 22 August 2021 about coronavirus (COVID-19).  Quote:  "We know the majority of deaths and the majority of ICU admissions have been in unvaccinated or partially vaccinated people"

Chief Medical Officer Professor Paul Kelly's press conference about COVID-19 – 22 August 2021 | Australian Government Department of Health

This report linked below clearly details that the reason vaccinated people are getting more infections in Israel and USA etc. is because there are far more vaccinated people than there are unvaccinated people. The issue is not vaccines is not about a cure - vaccines help most people avoid the virus symptoms completely (their immune system deals with it quickly) and the vast majority of those that get it and do become sick but are prevented from getting seriously ill/dying. 

...

That statement is correct about infections but not about deaths.  The latest Public Health England report on Covid-19 infections, hospitalisations, and deaths shows that the fully vaccinated population account for 21% of all infections but 58% of all Covid-19 deaths.  That means that proportionally there is as good as no difference in death between vaxxed and unvaxxed people.

[SnapDragon]

49 minutes ago, Stonker said:

"Draconian lockdowns last year" ?

In Thailand?

You must have been in a different Thailand, or in a different time warp.

In this one people weren't in a "draconian lockdown" but were being encouraged to travel up to and including Songkran this year, which is one of the reasons for the current problem.

Last year anyone moving across Provinces was encouraged to self isolate for 10-14 days.