News Forum - Australia and New Zealand consider just living with Covid-19

[JackIsAGoodBoy]

Australia and New Zealand are going to experience skyrocketing cases because the vaccines are outdated and basically virgin populace for the virus. Natural immunity was not allowed to do its job. Artificial vaccine induced herd immunity does not work with these viruses. 

Once they go from complete shutdown to semi-lockdown like the rest of the world this will happen.  They'll go back to 2020 big time while the shutdown caused untold damage to the economy.

[SnapDragon]

1 hour ago, AussieBob said:

Anecdotal evidence is that the Spanish Flu kept mutating and that was why there was at least 3 global waves of infections (they didn't know about viral mutations back then). 

You probably read that from somewhere Mr Bob. I cannot agree with your assertions.

The Spanish flu is so named because the Americans said that's where the first cases originated. The first 'wave' was the result of the atrocious conditions of the war. The second wave was caused by the medical industry.

Two vids: the first a short one.

https://brandnewtube.com/watch/spanish-flu-did-not-kill-50-million-people-vaxxines-did_gc1WA4ROoAfnEKa.html

The second a bit longer.

https://brandnewtube.com/watch/can-you-really-catch-the-flu-spanish-flu-and-the-infectious-myth-are-these-both-plandemics_ma9tCZvbPIvEJ5D.html

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, snapdragon said:

Last year anyone moving across Provinces was encouraged to self isolate for 10-14 days.

Really?

 

And that's your idea of "draconian" ?

 

... and maybe you haven't heard of the travel subsidy schemes (we travel together, etc)?

[aladdin]

It's about time. We are "used to"  seasonal flu, drunk drivers, robberies, fires, floods etc. The government is not your boss. Act according to your preferences and accept the results...it's Life!

[AussieBob]

11 hours ago, BlueSphinx said:

That statement is correct about infections but not about deaths.  The latest Public Health England report on Covid-19 infections, hospitalisations, and deaths shows that the fully vaccinated population account for 21% of all infections but 58% of all Covid-19 deaths.  That means that proportionally there is as good as no difference in death between vaxxed and unvaxxed people.

I looked on their website, but could not see any such report - their latest is about schools - send me a linkto that report you mentioned will you.

My initial thought is that the reason could be because it is the older people and those with underlying medical conditions that were the first to get the vaccine, and therefore it is those 'at risks' groups that make up most of the deaths.  But without the report I cannot really say any more than what the Aust CMO said - most ICU cases and deaths are unvaccinated and partially vaccinated.

 

[BlueSphinx]

13 hours ago, Soidog said:

@BlueSphinx  The second document start with this comment:

Analysis of the efficacy of early treatments for COVID-19.Treatments do not replace vaccines and other measures.  So enough said as this is treatment and not a preventative measure to stop or protect you catching Covid.

Dismissing the 2nd link I provided < https://c19early.com/ > because what it states on the opening page is a bit too hasty.  That site provides an overview of ALL the published studies on covid-19 remedial drugs/treatments.

 

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by KaptainRob
Keep replies to News items brief and with LINKS, no essays please.

[AussieBob]

10 hours ago, snapdragon said:

You probably read that from somewhere Mr Bob. I cannot agree with your assertions.

The Spanish flu is so named because the Americans said that's where the first cases originated. The first 'wave' was the result of the atrocious conditions of the war. The second wave was caused by the medical industry.

Two vids: the first a short one.

https://brandnewtube.com/watch/spanish-flu-did-not-kill-50-million-people-vaxxines-did_gc1WA4ROoAfnEKa.html

The second a bit longer.

https://brandnewtube.com/watch/can-you-really-catch-the-flu-spanish-flu-and-the-infectious-myth-are-these-both-plandemics_ma9tCZvbPIvEJ5D.html

Watched the first one. Sorry - but I cannot accept blanket statements without any evidence and only supported by pictures of what happened during WW1 and the Spanish Flu. I could immediately think of another 'interpretation' of "Army Records" for every single statement made.  I agree that looking back in time is a difficult exercise - there will always be lots of presumptions and bias based upon today's views and beliefs, and the majority of them (either way in any discussion) cannot be truly verified. 

The majority of troops who died in WW1 died from infections, as was the case in all wars fought between troops going back in all of human history.  Forget the hollywood movie crap - men did not all die from one sword blow - the majority died from infections after the battle. That was why they vacccinated troops - to try and prevent deaths from infections and disease. Penicillin was not invented/discovered until 1928, and before that people used to die from being scratched while picking roses. 

Vaccinations in the early 1900s were very new and very 'leading edge'.  It was a long time after that, particularly during and after WW2, that vaccines and medical treatment was 'ramped up' - most scientific advances by mankind took place in the 20th century - including vaccinations and treatments for infections and diseases.   

 

[Lawyers_Guns_and_Money]

On 8/25/2021 at 9:30 AM, Thaiger said:

With Covid-19 on the rise in Australia and New Zealand, officials in both countries have hinted at moving away from a strategy of eliminating the virus and instead learning to live with it. Australia has daily infection numbers nearing 1,000, setting new records each day and, while New Zealand had long avoided Covid-19 outbreaks, today the country reported 62 new cases, 210 total cases in the current outbreak there. The numbers are relatively low compared to many parts of the world but still cause for concern for the countries that had been reasonably successful in containing and avoiding Covid-19 outbreaks. […]

The post Australia and New Zealand consider just living with Covid-19 appeared first on Thaiger News.

Read the full story

"Learning to live with it" is becoming meaningless with each country that says they are going to do it, then don't. It is disingenuous because it implies a return to pre-cv19 normalcy when in reality it still means arbitrary restrictions whenever the numbers don't cooperate. 

[BlueSphinx]

13 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

I looked on their website, but could not see any such report - their latest is about schools - send me a linkto that report you mentioned will you.

My initial thought is that the reason could be because it is the older people and those with underlying medical conditions that were the first to get the vaccine, and therefore it is those 'at risks' groups that make up most of the deaths.  But without the report I cannot really say any more than what the Aust CMO said - most ICU cases and deaths are unvaccinated and partially vaccinated.

@AussieBob > Thanks for doing the effort in trying to look it up, and sorry for having forgotten to add the source-link.  I attached here the report that contains the data to which I referred in my post.  The Public Health England Authority publishes this official report fortnightly, and I attached both the 6 August and 20 August release.

Table 5 on pages 22-23 is the one of interest. It provides data on Attendance to emergency care and deaths of sequenced and genotyped Delta cases in England by vaccination status (1 February 2021 to 15 August 2021)

955994217_SARS-CoV-2variantsofconcernandvariantsunderinvestigationinEngland-Technical_Briefing_21dd20August2021.pdf 1388582883_SARS-CoV-2variantsofconcernandvariantsunderinvestigationinEngland-Technical_Briefing_20dd6August2021.pdf

[AussieBob]

3 minutes ago, Lawyers_Guns_and_Money said:

"Learning to live with it" is becoming meaningless with each country that says they are going to do it, then don't. It is disingenuous because it implies a return to pre-cv19 normalcy when in reality it still means arbitrary restrictions whenever the numbers don't cooperate. 

Going forward, the world will be changed by Covid - probably forever. I could go on and on and on about what changes I think will be introduced, citing current changes like vaccine passports, but as an example I will offer this. 

In 2001 some terrorists used planes (9/11) and killed thousands of people in New York.  Prior to that many planes had been highjacked and some blown up in mid-air by terrorists.  How many people killed? Thousands??   The World Govts all implemented massive changes to airport security all over the world - mandatory - like it or lump it.  All of that meant I could not get on a plane without personally being scanned, and all of my luggage and possessions as well. I was not allowed to take a pair of nail clippers on to a plane - and I had to remove my shoes and belt etc etc etc.  It was like it, or lump it - no choice. 

Fast forward to 2019 and the same planes allowed people on board that has spread a virus all around the world, and it has killed 4.5 million people (and counting).  You can argue all you want about the numbers, but the fact is that the World Govts are going to take actions, and those actions will not be going away for a long time.  It is obvious to me that 'participation' is groups events is going to be limited to those that have been vaccinated - like it or lump it. I think that it will include flying in a plane, and attending a football match or most sporting events with large crowds, and working in an office/location with lots of people sharing the same air/facilities, and most restaurants, and movies - and a lot of other things too.  

 

[AussieBob]

1 hour ago, BlueSphinx said:

@AussieBob > Thanks for doing the effort in trying to look it up, and sorry for having forgotten to add the source-link.  I attached here the report that contains the data to which I referred in my post.  The Public Health England Authority publishes this official report fortnightly, and I attached both the 6 August and 20 August release.

Table 5 on pages 22-23 is the one of interest. It provides data on Attendance to emergency care and deaths of sequenced and genotyped Delta cases in England by vaccination status (1 February 2021 to 15 August 2021)

955994217_SARS-CoV-2variantsofconcernandvariantsunderinvestigationinEngland-Technical_Briefing_21dd20August2021.pdf 2.24 MB · 0 downloads 1388582883_SARS-CoV-2variantsofconcernandvariantsunderinvestigationinEngland-Technical_Briefing_20dd6August2021.pdf 2.5 MB · 0 downloads

My read of your reports and the stats you mentioned, are that they are true but that they have been taken out of context. The report is not about deaths of vaccinated or unvaccinated, it is about the variants of Covid that are under investigation in England from people who have been admitted to emergency care in a hospital. The report does not analyse results from those that have not been admitted to emergency care (ICU etc.), and it does not compare the infection rates between vaccinated and unvaccinated people. 

As I surmised before, the vast majority of the deaths in that report, are over 50 which is by far the largest group who have been vaccinated.  The reality is that older people have a far higher mortality rate if they catch Covid.  If you look at the figures again for all the variations of Covid and look at the numbers who have been admitted to emergency care, you can see that the vast majority of people admitted are those under 50. If you look again at the numbers you first quoted you will see that of the 113 people under 50 admitted and who died, 72 of them where unvaccinated (64%). 

I refer back to my summary of the Black Ravens paradox.  It is very easy to take facts in isolation and/or out of context that support an hypothesis, and to overlook those that do not.  Hey - I was a Covid sceptic too - until a very healthy friend of mine caught it (survived) and he told me exactly what it did to him and to others in the ICU and Hospital. Plus I lost of distant relative who caught it and was only 52 years old (also fit and well).  Those events caused a paradigm shift in my thinking, and whilst I am still sceptical over what is being done and the vested interests at play, I have absolutely no doubt that the Covid virus is real and that it is deadly - especially to the over 60s (me) and those with some medical conditions and those with unknown genetic/physiological factors. 

However, the vaccinations are truly unknown and untested and are a risk, and the lockdowns are clearly not working as well as they did before.  I support anyone's right to refuse a vaccine, and I believe at some point the Govts will have to back off the lockdowns and 'live with it' - but it aint going away for a long time. I decided to get the vaccines - but if others decide not to then that is their right and anyone who disagrees with that right is wrong.  I will certainly disagree with any reasons given that dont 'add up', but never with the individual's choice.  Lockdowns are another matter - the Govts who do that are imposing a new rule/law on people, and compliance is not an option - no more than I can demand to take a pair of scissors onto a plane. Dont like it - then express that - but dont defy the rule/law - you can always vote for someone else - that is how democracy works. 

[DiJoDavO]

Wow, that took them almost 2 years? 

Well, the good thing is that everyone is always so in awe of how New Zealand handles things. Let's hope that everyone follows and see that those 2 years have been thrown in the bin. 

[BlueSphinx]

1 hour ago, AussieBob said:

My read of your reports and the stats you mentioned, are that they are true but that they have been taken out of context. The report is not about deaths of vaccinated or unvaccinated, it is about the variants of Covid that are under investigation in England from people who have been admitted to emergency care in a hospital. The report does not analyse results from those that have not been admitted to emergency care (ICU etc.), and it does not compare the infection rates between vaccinated and unvaccinated people. 

As I surmised before, the vast majority of the deaths in that report, are over 50 which is by far the largest group who have been vaccinated.  The reality is that older people have a far higher mortality rate if they catch Covid.  If you look at the figures again for all the variations of Covid and look at the numbers who have been admitted to emergency care, you can see that the vast majority of people admitted are those under 50. If you look again at the numbers you first quoted you will see that of the 113 people under 50 admitted and who died, 72 of them where unvaccinated (64%). 

I refer back to my summary of the Black Ravens paradox.  It is very easy to take facts in isolation and/or out of context that support an hypothesis, and to overlook those that do not.  Hey - I was a Covid sceptic too - until a very healthy friend of mine caught it (survived) and he told me exactly what it did to him and to others in the ICU and Hospital. Plus I lost of distant relative who caught it and was only 52 years old (also fit and well).  Those events caused a paradigm shift in my thinking, and whilst I am still sceptical over what is being done and the vested interests at play, I have absolutely no doubt that the Covid virus is real and that it is deadly - especially to the over 60s (me) and those with some medical conditions and those with unknown genetic/physiological factors. 

However, the vaccinations are truly unknown and untested and are a risk, and the lockdowns are clearly not working as well as they did before.  I support anyone's right to refuse a vaccine, and I believe at some point the Govts will have to back off the lockdowns and 'live with it' - but it aint going away for a long time. I decided to get the vaccines - but if others decide not to then that is their right and anyone who disagrees with that right is wrong.  I will certainly disagree with any reasons given that dont 'add up', but never with the individual's choice.  Lockdowns are another matter - the Govts who do that are imposing a new rule/law on people, and compliance is not an option - no more than I can demand to take a pair of scissors onto a plane. Dont like it - then express that - but dont defy the rule/law - you can always vote for someone else - that is how democracy works. 

The death-figure ratio vaxxed/unvaxxed from the covid delta strain clearly indicates that in England it is NOT a 'pandemic of the unvaccinated'.  Two thirds of the deaths are among the vaccinated, and of course these are mostly in the +50 years of age.  But no matter how the figures are spinned, they are very far away from the +95% deaths in the unvaccinated that the American CDC has been touting to scare people into taking the 'protective jab'. 

[Soidog]

16 hours ago, BlueSphinx said:

That statement is correct about infections but not about deaths.  The latest Public Health England report on Covid-19 infections, hospitalisations, and deaths shows that the fully vaccinated population account for 21% of all infections but 58% of all Covid-19 deaths.  That means that proportionally there is as good as no difference in death between vaxxed and unvaxxed people.

The difference is that  88% of adults  have had their first jab and 78% had their second. and the rest of the population are children aged under 16. Hence it’s obvious that the majority of deaths will be people who are vaccinated. The vaccines would have to be almost 100% effective for it not to be the case. 

[AussieBob]

On 8/27/2021 at 3:18 PM, BlueSphinx said:

The death-figure ratio vaxxed/unvaxxed from the covid delta strain clearly indicates that in England it is NOT a 'pandemic of the unvaccinated'.  Two thirds of the deaths are among the vaccinated, and of course these are mostly in the +50 years of age.  But no matter how the figures are spinned, they are very far away from the +95% deaths in the unvaccinated that the American CDC has been touting to scare people into taking the 'protective jab'. 

Lies, damn lies and statistics - yes, it is about how you look at them.  I agree with that comment about the US CDC scare 'campaign' - but the evidence indicates that more unvaccinated people are getting sick, in percentage, when compared to the vaccinated.

[Atlas_Aus]

On 8/26/2021 at 10:30 AM, Zool said:

Not sure if you've seen the reports from Oz, the truckers are planning a countrywide strike to protest the draconian measures. They are possibly going to park thousands of trucks in places that will stop all traffic and will take 2 weeks to clear all the trucks. It's great to see Australia waking up. 

I remember as a kid back in the 70's I think, the Truckies blockaded and it lasted a few days, but they got what they wanted. My Dad was one. 

Never forget, if the "Trucks stop, Australia stops"

[HiuMak]

On 8/27/2021 at 10:18 AM, Lawyers_Guns_and_Money said:

"Learning to live with it" is becoming meaningless with each country that says they are going to do it, then don't. It is disingenuous because it implies a return to pre-cv19 normalcy when in reality it still means arbitrary restrictions whenever the numbers don't cooperate. 

How long can humans be isolated? It's been 2 years so far the the virus is still wrecking havoc. The brave wants to step forward to live with the disease, the cautious wants to hold back and sit on the fence and see the situation and those afraid wants to be lockdown to be safe. And of course the crazies wants to protest.