News Forum - Efficacy of mRNA vaccines drops to 66% against Delta variant – US study

[billywillyjones]

1 hour ago, Bob20 said:

At the start it was different, because no mass testing was done and if it stayed mild you often didn't worry. 

Now, if you test positive, you are isolated or taken to a (field-)hospital. So we can follow the numbers better, contain the spread and intervene quicker if people get very sick.

And the very sick ones, you don't see them. Most are not rushed from home, but are already in a (field-)hospital when they deteriorate. No loud ambulance required.

Then they're isolated in hospital or unconscious in I.C.U. on a ventilator. You can see them, but you have to -go find- them. Not because there are few, but because they're kept away from us to stop the spread.

If you want good indication for the seriousness, look at the Covid deaths. 250-300 a day, means about 2 weeks ago there were some 50.000-60.000 cases a day. Worldwide more than 4.5m deaths in 18 months. I'd not call that a small problem. And it's not only the elderly or compromised people, although that's a larger proportion.

Once we're all vaccinated, the urgency will subside. I am sure that it will turn endemic, but that can take some years because there are parts of the world where progress is even slower than here.

Once again this data needs to be taken into context with the daily mortality rate for Thailand.  Is everyone dying from covid or dying with covid?  That is the key question.

[Bob20]

10 minutes ago, Xaos said:

Ur Pfizer travel passport comes together with ADE in package.

Have you been hibernating?

That's from a newspaper on 25 November 2020, before any vaccine was available and has meanwhile all been proven wrong

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/11/25/national/science-health/japan-experts-coronavirus-vaccines-safety/ 

I wish disinformation spouters made some more effort to look real!

 

[Bob20]

1 minute ago, billywillyjones said:

Once again this data needs to be taken into context with the daily mortality rate for Thailand.  Is everyone dying from covid or dying with covid?  That is the key question.

When you have very serious underlying conditions, it's virtually impossible to find out whether Covid tipped you over the edge or whether it was the original disease in the end.

For mild underlying conditions and healthy individuals it's easier to determine.

It looks like nitpicking, but in a pandemic the real question is:

Would they die without a vaccine? Or live with a vaccine?

Well, we now clearly know that there's little chance of becoming very serious ill with Covid after vaccination. 

[Nobodysfriend]

12 minutes ago, Xaos said:

Ur Pfizer travel passport comes together with ADE in package.

Some more details of the mentioned paper :

" The SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant is poised to acquire complete resistance to wild-type spike vaccines

The Delta variant possesses several unique mutations in the NTD—T19R,G142D,E156G,F157del andR158del—suggesting the possibility that binding of some anti-NTD neutralizing antibodies elicited by wild-type spike could be disrupted.

 

[billywillyjones]

14 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

When you have very serious underlying conditions, it's virtually impossible to find out whether Covid tipped you over the edge or whether it was the original disease in the end.

For mild underlying conditions and healthy individuals it's easier to determine.

It looks like nitpicking, but in a pandemic the real question is:

Would they die without a vaccine? Or live with a vaccine?

Well, we now clearly know that there's little chance of becoming very serious ill with Covid after vaccination. 

Nothing nitpicking here.  One needs to examine the annual mortality rate and the annual influenza rates as well as other illnesses to get a truer picture of the Covid rates.  It's simply common sense.

[Bob20]

18 minutes ago, billywillyjones said:

You are completely disregarding any possible long term complications.  How can you conclude the mRNA vaccines are a roaraing success without any long term testing?  One may be optimistic but the jury is out at this point in time.

Phase 1 and 2 studies were completed. Only Phase 3 wasn't fully completed and took a shortcut to release it a.s.a.p.

Besides, it's not like we never made vaccines before. And it works very specific and contains very few additions.

But what do you suggest? Wait 2-3 years or longer to find out about possible long-term side effects? We're at 210m+ infections and 4.5m+ deaths. And that's after the world started vaccinating last December. At the rate it was going then, that figure would be exponentially higher now. What figure have to be sick or die for you to take a calculated risk? Not even paracetamol is 100% safe.

This is exactly how antivaxxers try to get to you. We see that the vaccine works. It prevents serious sickness and death to a high degree. Now the only thing they have left is: Wait, maybe after 10 years you will die because of something we don't know and can't prove.

Fortunately, it's your free choice to take or reject a vaccine. 

[Bob20]

3 minutes ago, billywillyjones said:

Nothing nitpicking here.  One needs to examine the annual mortality rate and the annual influenza rates as well as other illnesses to get a truer picture of the Covid rates.  It's simply common sense.

I meant -it seemed as if I was nitpicking-

And those numbers have been researched and compared. 

That's why we know that the current mortality rate in Thailand is 25-30% over the statistical "normal" mortality rate that we would have if we didn't have Covid.

[BlueSphinx]

2 minutes ago, Bob20 said:

Phase 1 and 2 studies were completed. Only Phase 3 wasn't fully completed and took a shortcut to release it a.s.a.p.

Besides, it's not like we never made vaccines before. And it works very specific and contains very few additions.

But what do you suggest? Wait 2-3 years or longer to find out about possible long-term side effects? We're at 210m+ infections and 4.5m+ deaths. And that's after the world started vaccinating last December. At the rate it was going then, that figure would be exponentially higher now. What figure have to be sick or die for you to take a calculated risk? Not even paracetamol is 100% safe.

This is exactly how antivaxxers try to get to you. We see that the vaccine works. It prevents serious sickness and death to a high degree. Now the only thing they have left is: Wait, maybe after 10 years you will die because of something we don't know and can't prove.

Fortunately, it's your free choice to take or reject a vaccine. 

You wrote > ... it's not like we never made vaccines before.  Are you for real?

The problem is that the mRNA product by Pfizer and Moderna are NOT vaccines, but gene-therapies.  But they had to be labelled 'vaccine' in order to avoid some of the mandatory tests/studies for introduction of a gene therapy which would have prolonged the roll-out (e.g. impact on fertility). 

And in that sense the global roll-out of these gene-therapies are the largest human experiment ever conducted with hundreds of millions of mRNA jabbed human guinea pigs, and NOBODY yet knows what the longer-term consequences of these jabs will be.  If the animal-trials on which they were tried in the 20 years scientists are already - unsuccesfully - experimenting with mRNA injections, are an indicator,  it doesn't look good as ALL the animals died when being exposed to the wild variant of the virus later on. 

The absolute most scary FACT that is seldom mentioned to the vaccinees, is that the jab which alters your immune-system response is IRREVERSIBLE.  So contrary to the efficacy of the  jab which wanes after 5-6 months (nice surprise...), your immune-system is screwed FOREVER and cannot be re-set.  And with every additional jab the damage gets worse, which means that with every 'booster shot'  to protect you again against new variants your health will further deteriorate. 

[vlad]

2 hours ago, billywillyjones said:

I think everyone whould check out their hospitals too but the point is if this is such a terrible virus where are all the sick people.  I had covid over a year ago and although not pleasant it was not so different from a very bad flu.  For some the symptoms are only marginal and others even asymptomanic.  But yes there will always be some casualties but there are also casualties with influenza and malaria and many other sicknesses.  If the real concern is about saving lives where have the authorities been with the carnage all over the thai roads for decades.  Covid should be taken serious but it sure looks like the cure is becoming worse than the disease.

And I am not denying covid exists so please don't put words in posters mouths.  Where did I say it did not exist? 

Billywilly most will contact Covid inoculated or not most cases like yourself will fight it off but some will not. No 1 body is the same as the next body. I am in my 60s and have never had the flu but as im getting older my immune system is not as good as it was when i was in my 30s as a precaution i was advised to take a yearly flu vaccine the by word is  " Precaution ".  I took the advice same as Covid 19 if you contact Covid at least your protected from a serious strain that could put you in hospital or even kill you. 

[vlad]

I watched a news item last night where a father Baptized his 2 week old Daughter. His wife was 36 yrs old and died from Covid. What hurt most was he had a double service in the same Church on the same day he attended his wife's funeral he baptized his Daughter who will never see her Mother. I can't think what pain this guy had to endure. 

[Chaimai]

3 minutes ago, vlad said:

I watched a news item last night where a father Baptized his 2 week old Daughter. His wife was 36 yrs old and died from Covid. What hurt most was he had a double service in the same Church on the same day he attended his wife's funeral he baptized his Daughter who will never see her Mother. I can't think what pain this guy had to endure. 

 

 

That is horrific.

[vlad]

Was heart wrenching watching it Chaimai will the Covid Conspirators and Anti Vackers on here show any thoughts for this poor guy ? not a shred of sympathy. It was on BBC News last night.

[Guevara]

3 hours ago, Bob20 said:

So? Your point?

We have MRSA too. Shall we therefore stop using and developing antibiotics?

We do have MRSA but the main contributing factor was the generalised abuse and over use of anti biotics particularly by General Practitioners. Therapeutic intervention with bacillus is very different to containing a pathogen with potentially virulent variants. In answer to your final question, no we shouldn't stop developing anti biotics. There is a big shift from the use of broad spectrum anti biotics to very specific AB's, and augmented by a combination of 2 AB's together.

[Nobodysfriend]

1 hour ago, BlueSphinx said:

And in that sense the global roll-out of these gene-therapies are the largest human experiment ever conducted with hundreds of millions of mRNA jabbed human guinea pigs, and NOBODY yet knows what the longer-term consequences of these jabs will be.  If the animal-trials on which they were tried in the 20 years scientists are already - unsuccesfully - experimenting with mRNA injections, are an indicator,  it doesn't look good as ALL the animals died when being exposed to the wild variant of the virus later on. 

The absolute most scary FACT that is seldom mentioned to the vaccinees, is that the jab which alters your immune-system response is IRREVERSIBLE.  So contrary to the efficacy of the  jab which wanes after 5-6 months (nice surprise...), your immune-system is screwed FOREVER and cannot be re-set.  And with every additional jab the damage gets worse, which means that with every 'booster shot'  to protect you again against new variants your health will further deteriorate. 

May I conclude that you do not want to get vaccinated ?

 

[Poolie]

3 minutes ago, Nobodysfriend said:

May I conclude that you do not want to get vaccinated ?

Not only that, he doesn't want us all to get vaccinated.

[BlueSphinx]

29 minutes ago, vlad said:

Was heart wrenching watching it Chaimai will the Covid Conspirators and Anti Vackers on here show any thoughts for this poor guy ? not a shred of sympathy. It was on BBC News last night.

EVERY death due to covid-19 or to the adverse effects of the covid-vaccines is a TRAGEDY.  And it is totally uncalled for and utterly DESPICABLE to suggest that 'pro-choicers' or 'anti-vaxxers' would not have any sympathy for the victims. 

[BlueSphinx]

7 minutes ago, Nobodysfriend said:

May I conclude that you do not want to get vaccinated ?

Yes you got that right, kudos for 'reading between the lines'...

[Nobodysfriend]

4 minutes ago, BlueSphinx said:

Yes you got that right, kudos for 'reading between the lines'...

That surely is an interesting point of view .

But , in a world where Covid is omnipresent , how do you want to avoid becoming infected in the long run ?

 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Nobodysfriend

[BlueSphinx]

4 minutes ago, Poolie said:

Not only that, he doesn't want us all to get vaccinated.

You got that one wrong.  As a staunch 'pro-choicer' I have no problem at all that people decide to take the vax.  But I don't consider it wrong - actually on the contrary - to provide information on covid-vaccination  which is not easily accessible or suppressed by the main-stream media with an agenda.  What you do with that information, is your own choice and I respect that completely...  If my postings irritate you, you are of course very welcome to put me on your IGNORE list.  Thanks.

[Benroon]

4 hours ago, AlexPTY said:

no worries, variant resistant to COVID-19 vaccine likely to emerge, Pfizer CEO says

obviously, all viruses mutate, but the vaccines will continue to be developed to hopefully counter that so its probably a moot point - until something comes along that just stops it rather than just improve the scenario should you get it (which they do a great job of doing)

This is unchartered shit, you have to give the guys working on this a chance (and not take too much notice of the loonies who claim its all a bizarre conspiracy by rich people to buy a bigger yacht!)

Edited August 25, 2021 by Benroon

[Guevara]

5 hours ago, Shane said:

Im banking on the Pfizer getting me a travel passport in 2022. Hopefully it will protect people from from virus. 

Dependent on which Country you are, you might not have to wait until 2022. In the UK it's very much on the cards that boosters will start rolling out in September and PM Boris Johnson has already ordered 35 million BioNtech for July 2022.

[vlad]

So BlueSphinx why do you and your covid corner keep denying Covid is real and fake and made up by MSM or have you now realized Covid is real and a life taker ?

[Benroon]

20 minutes ago, BlueSphinx said:

EVERY death due to covid-19 or to the adverse effects of the covid-vaccines is a TRAGEDY.  And it is totally uncalled for and utterly DESPICABLE to suggest that 'pro-choicers' or 'anti-vaxxers' would not have any sympathy for the victims. 

Is it ? Even if your views directly contribute to those deaths ? Thousands and thousands and thousands of doctors and scientists say the vaccines are a good idea, whilst just a handful of doctors and scientists, along with a few unhinged keyboard warriors doubt it. That's ok, everyone is entitled to their views, but if you're a gambling man who are you going to go with ?

For every person that listens and is convinced by the conspiracy theorists, that's another person at increased risk of dying whilst giving it to someone else to put them at increased risk, so less of the fake outrage please. 

Your views put people directly at risk. You have to live with that.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Benroon

[Benroon]

4 hours ago, Bob20 said:

 

I've looked up the actual interview (which you could have done too, instead of immediately jumping on misquotes).

Bourla did not say a resistant variant to all vaccines will emerge.

He said "a resistant variant to the currently used vaccine may one day emerge"

He said they are constantly looking whether there are new variants. But there aren't any yet.

He also said that they have the technology to adapt the vaccine to any new variant within 3 months of it emerging.

Showing again that some here have an agenda to go against anything, rather than to be precise.

Well done - their is an enormous amount of quote twisting to make an anti vaccine point, or using poster boys (I think Yeadon) that just so happens to have been fired by the company he's firing at, but oddly they left that bit out) - but when the science is massively against you, you are going to need to make things up !

[BlueSphinx]

6 minutes ago, Nobodysfriend said:

That surely is an interesting point of view .

But , in a world where Covid is omnipresent , how do you want to avoid becoming infected in the long run ?

You are fully correct that eventually EVERYBODY will catch covid-19.  I am 64 years of age, a tiny bit obese, but generally very health with no underlying conditions, so I an not at all afraid or worried when I will catch it as I reckon that my physical and mental conditions is quite good to 'survive' it without too harsh an impact.

And yes, I will not 'protect' myself by taking an emergency-approved (read experimental) covid-19 vaccine, but obviously will ensure that my immune-system won't get challenged by drugs/pollution/unhealthy lifestyle and if necessary will take vitamin/mineral supplements (but currently not doing that).  Daily exercise (just a 1/2 hour walk - I am lazy) and healthy fresh food will keep my condition OK - I feel fine.  And if I do catch coivid (ultimately I will, just like everybody else), I will follow one of the several Covid-19 Remedial Protocols like the FLCCC one, and for that purpose I did buy ivermectin already so that I can take that at first symptoms together with some other remedial substances that have proven their effectiveness.