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Biden stands by decision to withdraw troops, says no leaving without ‘chaos ensuing’


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5 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

Sure, but ensuring that you have assets in place to allow a secure protected exit is not rocket science... Except for using rockets to fire on any Taliban that are impeding your efforts. 

OBiden is a career corrupt dementia ridden stooge. The DC political class, both sides, are also corrupt and self serving. They all need to be held accountable. 

Sure.

Being held accountable.

What do you think the chances are of this occurring. 

Dreamy states don't do well in an empire driven Oligarchy [USA, et al] 

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On 8/19/2021 at 11:52 PM, 9S_ said:

It was Bidens decision he’s the president!

Here he is talking about HIS DECISION to withdraw from Afghanistan. 
Not to mention Joe Biden literally reneged on Trumps deal. So in the end it’s Bidens fault. He’s the president when Kabul fell to the Taliban.

When Trump left Kabul controlled all provincial capitals. Not one fell to the taliban on Trumps last day in office. 
 

Joe Biden it all fell and the Taliban capture Afghanistan on Bidens watch. More like on his vacation. 

I removed all the videos as there is no dispute Biden ordered withdrawal of all US forces by 31/08/21. Note Biden extended the withdrawal deadline set by trump by three months.

What do you think happened after the trump Doha agreement, which excluded the Afghan government,  when trump promised not to attack Taliban forces so long as they left US and allied forces alone - at the time the Taliban controlled much rural territory. The Taliban used the time to regroup, rearm and plan and commence the strategy to take over districts surrounding provincial capitals, cut off revenue for the central government by capturing customs border control pints and so on. Compounding problems was the massive corruption within Afghan security, which not one US administration resolved, thereby undermining armed forces morale - as an example not being paid for months. Remember approx 60,000 Afghan armed forces were killed from 2014 to the date of the Doha arrangement, with relatively few causalities within allied forces during that time.

To repeat trump accelerated the morale rot already under way within Afghan security, Biden put the final nail in the coffin. To repeatedly deny any responsibility whatsoever for the final outcome by trump is only solely propaganda.

If any members wish to read balanced analysis of the Afghan situation read David Kilcullen - an example of his work...

https://www.abc.net.au/7.30/counterinsurgency-expert-david-kilcullen-on-the/13500380

Edited by PBS
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49 minutes ago, PBS said:

I removed all the videos as there is no dispute Biden ordered withdrawal of all US forces by 31/08/21. Note Biden extended the withdrawal deadline set by trump by three months.

What do you think happened after the trump Doha agreement, which excluded the Afghan government,  when trump promised not to attack Taliban forces so long as they left US and allied forces alone - at the time the Taliban controlled much rural territory. The Taliban used the time to regroup, rearm and plan and commence the strategy to take over districts surrounding provincial capitals, cut off revenue for the central government by capturing customs border control pints and so on. Compounding problems was the massive corruption within Afghan security, which not one US administration resolved, thereby undermining armed forces morale - as an example not being paid for months. Remember approx 60,000 Afghan armed forces were killed from 2014 to the date of the Doha arrangement, with relatively few causalities within allied forces during that time.

To repeat trump accelerated the morale rot already under way within Afghan security, Biden put the final nail in the coffin. To repeatedly deny any responsibility whatsoever for the final outcome by trump is only solely propaganda.

If any members wish to read balanced analysis of the Afghan situation read David Kilcullen - an example of his work...

https://www.abc.net.au/7.30/counterinsurgency-expert-david-kilcullen-on-the/13500380

Amazing how leftists will always revert to the irrational trump derangement syndrome to cover for their weakness and proven failed ideology. 

 

Lets be clear here, not many people think that the usa should stay in Afghanistan propping up a massively corrupt, incompetent, unaccountable government and wasting hundreds of billions of dollars, we already do that in Washington DC and have nothing but wasted potential and massive debt to show for it. 

 

All that was needed was to keep Bagram and full air support capabilities and an orderly evacuation of citizens. 

 

Instead, this useless weak obiden administration full of virtue signaling "academics" and incompetent Obama administration staff have failed completely. 

 

We now know , these idiots disbanded the state department crisis and contingency bureau, so they could try and wash their hands of any kind of responsibility. 

 

This is what happens when you have a bunch of woke leftist idiots in charge. They push out ridiculous propaganda that "white" supremacists are the biggest threat to the country while they fret over preferred pronouns and pushing more propaganda and racist crt to students. 

Edited by mcambl61
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41 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

Amazing how leftists will always revert to the irrational trump derangement syndrome to cover for their weakness and proven failed ideology. 

I have already informed you I subscribe to moderate conservative politics and vote accordingly. Kindly cease your ignorant right wing extremist personal attacks.

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2 hours ago, Rain said:

Just to be replaced by a similar member of the club, as history will show you. 

Appears to me that too many miss the bigger picture.....or any picture at all, for that matter.

Yes agree there is a bigger picture, there's a rat in the Biden camp making side deals with the Taliban.

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42 minutes ago, PBS said:

I have already informed you I subscribe to moderate conservative politics and vote accordingly. Kindly cease your ignorant right wing extremist personal attacks.

I don't believe you. You are obviously a leftist. 

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16 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

I don't believe you. You are obviously a leftist. 

I can only conclude you're a subscriber to trump world, where any other stance, other than even more extreme right wing opinion, is considered 'leftist'. 

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32 minutes ago, PBS said:

I can only conclude you're a subscriber to trump world, where any other stance, other than even more extreme right wing opinion, is considered 'leftist'. 

Well, I can conclude that you are emotionally motivated by your hatred of a man's personality and tweets, while ignoring the policies that were effective. 

 

If you are so twisted in your hatred, name the policies that Trump instigated that have you so angry and irrational. 

 

If you can. 

 

Otherwise, you are a leftist. 

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41 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

Well, I can conclude that you are emotionally motivated by your hatred of a man's personality and tweets, while ignoring the policies that were effective. 

If you are so twisted in your hatred, name the policies that Trump instigated that have you so angry and irrational. 

If you can. 

Otherwise, you are a leftist. 

Don't hate trump, just view him without ethics and morals. So far as his background, for starters, having as his mentors people such as Roy Cohen and Bannon for years prior to reaching power, Corrupt - example, he was banned from having a casino in Australia by Federal Police due to mafia links in the US, stealing from workers - multiple bankruptcies and so on.

Upon gaining power trump's extreme paleo conservative polices encouraged by people such as Stephen Miller, unilateralism, anti democratic agenda e.g. 'stop the steal', pathological liar etc etc etc. I bet in the future trump will be viewed as one to the worst US presidents both for US domestic and international issues.

trump supporters ruined the dialogue on the other platform, that's why they shut down politics and international news forums; so last reply to you concerning trump, as I know I'm wasting my time with you.

Edited by PBS
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24 minutes ago, PBS said:

Don't hate trump, just view him without ethics and morals. So far as his background, for starters, having as his mentors people such as Roy Cohen and Bannon for years prior to reaching power, Corrupt - example, he was banned from having a casino in Australia by Federal Police due to mafia links in the US, stealing from workers - multiple bankruptcies and so on.

Upon gaining power trump's extreme paleo conservative polices encouraged by people such as Stephen Miller, unilateralism, anti democratic agenda e.g. 'stop the steal', pathological liar etc etc etc. I bet in the future trump will be viewed as one to the worst US presidents both for US domestic and international issues.

trump supporters ruined the dialogue on the other platform, that's why they shut down politics and international news forums; so last reply to you concerning trump, as I know I'm wasting my time with you.

So you completely dodge the question about the policies and go straight to ridiculous assertions about "paleo conservatism" which is word salad blather. 

 

Biden is a horrible career corrupt feckless political hack, yet your irrational emotional hatred for trump shines straight through your phony conservative claims. 

No mention of the Obama administration and the dnc weaponizing the fbi and doj to try and destroy an opposition candidate by planting false stories, I guess you are ok with that. 

But somehow this does not rate any concern about "ethics and morals" for you does it. The entire DC political class has no ethics or morals, where have you been? 

 

 

Trump supporters did nothing to destroy the tvf forum, the leftist moderators did. 

As they can't handle any deviation from the preferred narratives. 

 

What will you do when trump gets reelected? 

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1 hour ago, PBS said:
2 hours ago, mcambl61 said:

I don't believe you. You are obviously a leftist. 

I can only conclude you're a subscriber to trump world, where any other stance, other than even more extreme right wing opinion, is considered 'leftist'. 

He throws this term out frequently. I keep pointing out only people who aren't intelligent enough to make a cogent argument use this term. Maybe some day it will sink in.

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5 hours ago, PBS said:

I removed all the videos

How convenient

5 hours ago, PBS said:

there is no dispute Biden ordered withdrawal of all US forces

Full stop. Right there. That’s it. 

5 hours ago, PBS said:

What do you think happened after the trump Doha agreement, which excluded the Afghan government,  when trump promised not to attack Taliban forces so long as they left US and allied forces alone

Easy! Civilians would be evacuated, troops withdrawn and equipment either destroyed or safely in Afghan ally hands and Afghanistan would NOT fall to the Taliban. And there would be NO Islamic Jihad resurgence. But because Joe Biden is the Resident since January 2021, he did that but in the complete opposite!

Under Joe Biden:

We have over 10,000 Americans trapped behind Taliban lines

Taliban possesses nearly 300 aircraft including 150 Blackhawk helicopters, thousands of American rifles, mortars, rocket launchers, anti-tank missiles, humvees and mine resistant vehicles. 

Taliban is in possession of ALL Afghans biometric data that worked with the US

He destroyed sensitive embassy data resulting in all of SIV applications, processing US and whereabouts of Americans completely lost

A resurgent terrorist force occupying an entire country. When we first started Taliban controlled less territory than they do now.
 

Thanks Joe!

Also on the last day of Trumps term: Last I checked Kabul was still Democratic when Trump left office. All equipment was accounted for. All provincial capitals were under Kabul rule. US controlled Begram airbase. Practically peaceful compared to now, which Joe Biden is Resident. 

If Taliban reneged on the deal, expect fire, fury and hell unleashed. Trump did use the MOAB on ISIS, destroyed ISIS, killed its leader and assassinated Iranian Supreme Commander (who plotted against American troops unabated under Biden and Obama) 

5 hours ago, PBS said:

The Taliban used the time to regroup, rearm and plan and commence the strategy to take over districts surrounding provincial capitals,

Under Joe Biden. It was during his residency that Afghanistan fell. In less than 2 weeks all of Afghanistan fell to the Taliban. 
 

 

5 hours ago, PBS said:

cut off revenue for the central government by capturing customs border control pints and so on

 

Taliban was funded by Pakistan. Taliban would never make a move without Pakistan’s approval. They’re the ones who sheltered Osama Bin Laden. They’re the main supplier, supporter and benefactor of the Taliban not rando country check points. 
 

Well maybe not anymore since UNDER JOE BIDEN he gave the Taliban nearly $1 Billion in US military equipment

5 hours ago, PBS said:

Compounding problems was the massive corruption within Afghan security, which not one US administration resolved, thereby undermining armed forces morale -

That happened under Joe Biden. Those provincial capitals fell because the Taliban was able to bribe the governors.  Why didn’t Joe Biden stop this. It surely didn’t happen under Trump because zero, nada, nil provincial capitals fell under Trump. They all fell under Joe Biden because … you know … he’s the Resident

 

5 hours ago, PBS said:

To repeat trump accelerated the morale rot already under way within Afghan security

 

Accelerate?? Accelerate means super quick. Under Joe Biden accelerated Afghanistan’s complete capitulation to the Taliban!

It took less than one month to undo the work 3 presidents completed in 2 decades! Thanks Joe!

5 hours ago, PBS said:

To repeatedly deny any responsibility whatsoever for the final outcome by trump is only solely propaganda.

 

No it’s face and obvious. Even Britain put Biden in contempt? Why not Trump? Easy the fall of Afghanistan rests on Joe Biden alone. 
 

You seem to give Biden absolutely no credit and hold him in high regard. 
 

Robert Gates, former CIA Director and Department of Defense, stated that Joe Biden has been wrong in every single foreign policy for the last 40 years!

For example he opposed the assassination of Osama Bin Laden then lied about opposing it. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/12/barack-obama-memoir-joe-biden-bin-laden-raid

Joe Biden on meeting with President Ford to abandon South Vietnam:

Two weeks before Saigon fell in April 1975, a 32-year-old Joe Biden was among the senators summoned to the White House for a top-secret briefing on the crisis in Vietnam.

Though just a freshman, Biden gave the president a clear message: The situation in Vietnam was hopeless, and the United States should leave as quickly as possible, according to a column by Rowland Evans and Robert Novak at the time that described Biden’s interactions with then-President Gerald Ford. “

South Vietnamese was actually winning these with US support. Joe ended that. Thanks Joe!

On Joe abandoning Afghanistan during Obama years:

 “

In a private conversation with Richard Holbrooke, who was President Barack Obama’s special envoy to Afghanistan and Pakistan, Biden argued that the United States does not have an obligation to Afghans who trusted the United States, according to “Our Man,” a biography of Holbrooke by George Packer.

“We don’t have to worry about that,” Biden told Holbrooke, according to the book. “We did it in Vietnam. Nixon and Kissinger got away with it,” he said, referring to President Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger, who was secretary of state to Nixon and Ford. “

Standard procedure for Joe Biden it seems

Joe Biden on securing women’s rights:

In the same conversation, Biden also reportedly pushed back on the argument that America had a moral obligation to women in Afghanistan.

“I am not sending my boy back there to risk his life on behalf of women’s rights!” Biden said, according the book’s account. “It just won’t work — that’s not what they’re there for.”
 

damn! Heartless Joe!

source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-vietnam-afghanistan/2021/08/15/fd155518-fdd5-11eb-ba7e-2cf966e88e93_story.html

This is Joe’s fault! Entirely 100% Joe Biden who allowed Afghanistan to become a third world hellhole in less than a year! Under Bush, Under Obama and and Under Trump they held the line! They all wanted to withdraw but the Pentagon advised against this and they all listened  

Joe Biden? Nah he went against his own intelligence community and pentagon thus dooming the world

 

 

 

 

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Its just a complete mess. And it doesn't matter if it was Trump or Biden, as both of them are i d i o ts when it comes to sensible things like this. There should have been a way better plan unless the intention was to leave them really armed and extremely more dangerous to whomever goes in there now, such as China. Now that would be something if arming them for China to enter.

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1 hour ago, PBS said:

just view him without ethics and morals

Trump flew his private Jet to help a sick Orthodox Jew fly to New York to seek life saving treatment. The boy was nearly abandoned on the west coast because airlines refused to equip their planes with special medical equipment to transport the sick Jew. Trump? Well he flew to LA, equipped the special medical equipment on his private jetliner, took the boy, his family and nurses to New York to save his life. 
 

How can he be without ethics and morals?

https://www.jta.org/archive/orthodox-child-with-rare-ailment-is-rescued-aboard-tycoons-jet
 

While traveling in his limo, his limo broke down. A man stopped and helped fix trumps limo. Trump asked how can I repay you and the man send a bouquet to my wife. Later the man and wife found out their mortgage was paid off by Trump

How can he be without ethics and morals?

 

Trump only got paid $1 salary as US president he donated the rest. 
 

How can he be without ethics and morals?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-donation-salary-white-house/2021/07/29/07723234-efd9-11eb-bf80-e3877d9c5f06_story.html

Trump is willing to sign autographs with first responders and to those who ask him for iT

How can he be without morals or ethics?

 

2 hours ago, PBS said:

I bet in the future trump will be viewed as one to the worst US presidents both for US domestic and international issues.

Joe already has that in less than a year too 😂!

Joe Biden singlehandedly destroyed 2 decades, 3 US presidents, America and her allies blood and work to secure Afghanistan. He singlehandedly gave it back to the Taliban armed with nearly a $1 Billion in military equipment. Now Al-Qaeda will return, Islamic Jihadis will have a resurgence, there’s going to a mass refugee crisis for Europe. He destroyed America’s credibility and reliability. 
 

Thanks Joe!

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On 8/19/2021 at 1:43 PM, riclag said:

His botched attempt to pull out was  heinous and the deflection  was even more feeble .

Its not to often many on left agree with the right ,on the optics!
I only wish this happen in October of 2022!

2020 might have worked better....

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On 8/19/2021 at 6:47 PM, Dancbmac said:

I don’t know about Blair’s position was at the time, but GW Bush got sidetracked with Iraq and had to have a second war without accomplishing the mission in Afghanistan and then getting out.  Bush pulled resources from the military and diplomatically from Afghanistan and made this second to conquering Iraq.  In reality there was no WMD and was just Saddam playing with the infidel western leaders foolishly.  Bush Sr. knew or had smart advisors that knew that nation building would be a tough nut to crack and he decided not to conquer Iraq after freeing Kuwait in Desert Storm.  GWB for some reason didn’t get it.  It is easy to “Monday morning quarterback” as we say in America, but this is my perspective when I was in the military during the first Gulf War and then as a civilian contractor in Afghanistan & Iraq and what we saw over there.  What one reads in the news is distorted and cherry picked to suite political leaning as to what was really happening, so I always take what we see in the news with a grain of salt.  At events that I was actually located at and then news reports later after blackouts were lifted usually seemed distorted or missing information.  This is our world in the 21st Century sadly.

The original mission in Afghanistan was accomplished - the problem in terms of the extended stay was all the "add ons". The problem right now is Biden.

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On 8/19/2021 at 9:22 PM, Stonker said:

The only difference any changes would have made to any "chaos" would have been "when" - the chaos would have happened whenever the troops withdrew, whether was last May, last week, next Christmas, or in ten years time.

Arguably it may have been better outside the fighting season, during the winter, but as there was no "fighting" involved that's pretty moot and could hardly have affected Kabul.

What could have been done differently beyond better visa preparation and earlier screening, which was never prioritised?

More air cover?

To do what?

Control the crowds around the airport?

It's a shambles, but how could it have been done any better?

Or the question might be: how could it have been done any worse?

If you can't answer any your own questions then maybe better not to ask.

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On 8/19/2021 at 9:47 PM, riclag said:

The idea to some how tie some of the blame   on President  Trump is concerning !  You would think it was a  peace treaty  that the former administration negotiated with those extremists leaders it was a deal not etched in stone! Deal and treaty is a big difference!

biden has struck down every "deal" that  Mr. Trump made through executive action , biden makes it look like he couldn't  change  or critique the pull out ,this was calculated screw up and than it blew up in their face  by letting  the military out before the civilians ,biden owns this totally .

If this happen to Isreal or the Trump admin the taliban would be looking over their shoulders right now ,in fear !

It didn't. They're not.

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On 8/20/2021 at 6:09 AM, Rain said:

Seems to me the most reasonable strategy towards an end game exodus would've been not to say anything about anything that even hints of a pull-out/evacuation. No official announcements, etc. Don't create a show. STFU.

Quietly and systematically, commence a casual drawdown while the US military still operates security/combat protocol as a cover. over a period of weeks, removing all the people that require getting the f*ck outta there. Then the military stands down and retreats to airlift locales - they can be out in two days. 

You'll be hearing the locals murmuring, "it's been real and it's been nice, but it hasn't been real nice"

Nice idea but not so easy to keep that quiet.

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1 minute ago, Fester said:

If you can't answer any your own questions then maybe better not to ask.

I can answer all of mine, and thought I had - at some length!

 

In brief, all that could have been done better once the mistake of entering a conflict that couldn't be won had been made was to have a withdrawal plan.

 

That should have included evacuating all those you wanted to while you could, which would have meant starting the process two years ago so that the last were evacuated a fortnight ago, not leaving it until a fortnight ago - unless you never meant to evacuate them at all.

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10 minutes ago, Fester said:

Or the question might be: how could it have been done any worse?

Sorry, you've got me there. 😕

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8 hours ago, Rain said:

Just to be replaced by a similar member of the club, as history will show you. 

Appears to me that too many miss the bigger picture.....or any picture at all, for that matter.

Not so fast! A small beacon of light may be that not all potential leaders are not at all "similar" to Biden. 

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7 hours ago, Rain said:

Sure.

Being held accountable.

What do you think the chances are of this occurring. 

Dreamy states don't do well in an empire driven Oligarchy [USA, et al] 

Dreamy states seem to describe Biden's world most of the time.

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3 hours ago, PBS said:

Don't hate trump, just view him without ethics and morals. So far as his background, for starters, having as his mentors people such as Roy Cohen and Bannon for years prior to reaching power, Corrupt - example, he was banned from having a casino in Australia by Federal Police due to mafia links in the US, stealing from workers - multiple bankruptcies and so on.

Upon gaining power trump's extreme paleo conservative polices encouraged by people such as Stephen Miller, unilateralism, anti democratic agenda e.g. 'stop the steal', pathological liar etc etc etc. I bet in the future trump will be viewed as one to the worst US presidents both for US domestic and international issues.

trump supporters ruined the dialogue on the other platform, that's why they shut down politics and international news forums; so last reply to you concerning trump, as I know I'm wasting my time with you.

So much poop. The other platform was ruined by biased mods.

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3 hours ago, PBS said:

just view him without ethics and morals

As at least 10,000 American lives and nearly 15,000+ Afghan allies are stranded behind Taliban lines Joe Biden goes on vacation again 

He was on vacation the week before Afghanistan fell

He was on vacation the weekend Afghanistan fell

He was still on vacation 2 days after Afghanistan fell

He wanted to go on vacation again for the weekend and for Joe, the weekend starts on Thursday, then postponed to leave on Friday. 

Instead of working he’s going on vacation

For a man without moral or ethics as you say, Trump stayed up all night to bring and console Ottos family as they welcome the body of Otto Warmbier at 2:00am. 
 

Can Biden even stay at least to 2:00am

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