DTV & ..question..

[Skip]

20 hours ago, AussieBob said:

I agree - I do everything myself - it is easy and clear. If not sure about anything I just go into the local Provincial Office and ask them how to do it (or the wife does actually).

There is a valid need for an 'agent' however. I know of several single retired Expats here on the Pension that just do not have the needed 800K bank deposit, or just dont want to keep that much here in Thailand (In Australia that is close to $40K and for many that is a lot of money).  So what they do is use an agent who organises for a bank letter/deposit to be provided and does all the other stuff - including 90 day reporting. Yes that might be clamped down upon in the future, but until then spending a small amount of money on an agent is very worthwhile. 

It is not just about "need for an agent... there are those of us who just do not "want" to be bothered with dealing with the details and would prefer to be playing golf for the time spent... or napping.

[AussieBob]

7 hours ago, Skip said:

It is not just about "need for an agent... there are those of us who just do not "want" to be bothered with dealing with the details and would prefer to be playing golf for the time spent... or napping.

Fair enough - good point. I must admit that after organising the official marriage stuff here, I was exhausted and I would recommend to use an agent to anyone. The 90 day and annual renewal aint anywhere near that 'problem' - but as you said - it would be much easier not to have to do it at all. Plus of course the local Office gets a kick-back from the Agents - so they always look after them.  

[Liquorice]

On 12/20/2024 at 10:24 AM, AussieBob said:

There is a valid need for an 'agent' however. I know of several single retired Expats here on the Pension that just do not have the needed 800K bank deposit, or just dont want to keep that much here in Thailand (In Australia that is close to $40K and for many that is a lot of money).  So what they do is use an agent who organises for a bank letter/deposit to be provided and does all the other stuff - including 90 day reporting. Yes that might be clamped down upon in the future, but until then spending a small amount of money on an agent is very worthwhile. 

The financial requirement to stay in Thailand is well documented. If you can't meet those requirements, then you shouldn't be staying here. It's only due to Thailand being so corrupt that agents manage to circumvent the law. There is a financial requirement to reside in Australia, Bob, can agents in Australia circumvent those rules?

The cheapest agent I know of charges 17,000 BHT for a 'dodgy' 1 year extension of stay.
Not exactly pocket change.

[Liquorice]

11 hours ago, Skip said:

It is not just about "need for an agent... there are those of us who just do not "want" to be bothered with dealing with the details and would prefer to be playing golf for the time spent... or napping.

Yeah, yeah, I've heard all the excuses before.

The nearest local agent is over an hour's drive from here, yet those who complain about jumping through hoops and over hurdles, will drive an hour there and then back, then a week to ten days later make the same journey. In-between, they are without a Passport.

My extension is based on Thai spouse. All the required documents other than from the bank are already in my possession, Passport, Tabien Baan, I merely have to make a few copies which is really time-consuming and difficult (I'm being sarcastic). A quick trip to the bank then to Immigration, and I'm home, whilst they're still travelling back home from the first visit to the agent.

[Khunmark]

52 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

Yeah, yeah, I've heard all the excuses before.

The nearest local agent is over an hour's drive from here, yet those who complain about jumping through hoops and over hurdles, will drive an hour there and then back, then a week to ten days later make the same journey. In-between, they are without a Passport.

My extension is based on Thai spouse. All the required documents other than from the bank are already in my possession, Passport, Tabien Baan, I merely have to make a few copies which is really time-consuming and difficult (I'm being sarcastic). A quick trip to the bank then to Immigration, and I'm home, whilst they're still travelling back home from the first visit to the agent.

It’s not just a matter of having all the relevant documents. Although the Spouse visas require a small forest of paperwork. It’s also dependant on your local immigration office. I live in Chiang Mai and as anyone also lives here will attest, the trip to the immigration offices here is an unpleasant experience for a multitude of reasons. None the least, the waiting time to be seen.
 

If you’re doing it on your own you should fully well expect an all day affair in trying conditions. My agent, god bless her, has me in and out the door within 20 minutes with everything taken care of. She also picks me up and drops me off at my condo afterwards. All for what amounts to around $300AUS. I liken it to travelling business class. A lot more pricey, but worth the money when you factor in the stress of the alternative.

[Liquorice]

1 hour ago, Khunmark said:

I live in Chiang Mai and as anyone also lives here will attest, the trip to the immigration offices here is an unpleasant experience for a multitude of reasons. None the least, the waiting time to be seen.

Nonsense, I have friends in Chiang Mai, 2 hours tops.

You can make an online appointment for extensions based on retirement 
https://outlook.office365.com/book/ChiangMaiImmigrationOffice@imm5division.onmicrosoft.com/
And apply online for tourist extensions.

[Skip]

10 hours ago, Liquorice said:

Yeah, yeah, I've heard all the excuses before.

The nearest local agent is over an hour's drive from here, yet those who complain about jumping through hoops and over hurdles, will drive an hour there and then back, then a week to ten days later make the same journey. In-between, they are without a Passport.

My extension is based on Thai spouse. All the required documents other than from the bank are already in my possession, Passport, Tabien Baan, I merely have to make a few copies which is really time-consuming and difficult (I'm being sarcastic). A quick trip to the bank then to Immigration, and I'm home, whilst they're still travelling back home from the first visit to the agent.

All that for you while I played 18 holes of golf... wow... which should I choose?

[Skip]

8 hours ago, Liquorice said:

Nonsense, I have friends in Chiang Mai, 2 hours tops.

You can make an online appointment for extensions based on retirement 
https://outlook.office365.com/book/ChiangMaiImmigrationOffice@imm5division.onmicrosoft.com/
And apply online for tourist extensions.

They do not honor the appointment system... you just know so much about nothing.  I live in Chiang Mai and have friends who spend their entire day trying to deal with immigration here... "it's a nightmare" is their take on it... I play golf while they live their "nightmare"... I use an agent that is 7 minutes from my house and on the way to the golf course so no special trip to deal with them... they are friendly and professional, and I do not mind  paying people to handle matters for me... my time and peace of mind is well worth the baht... but if I, like you, had nothing better to do I could and would do my own as well.

[Khunmark]

10 hours ago, Liquorice said:

Nonsense, I have friends in Chiang Mai, 2 hours tops.

You can make an online appointment for extensions based on retirement 
https://outlook.office365.com/book/ChiangMaiImmigrationOffice@imm5division.onmicrosoft.com/
And apply online for tourist extensions.

Thanks for the info. Can you book for a spouse visa application also?

[AussieBob]

16 hours ago, Liquorice said:

The financial requirement to stay in Thailand is well documented. If you can't meet those requirements, then you shouldn't be staying here. It's only due to Thailand being so corrupt that agents manage to circumvent the law. There is a financial requirement to reside in Australia, Bob, can agents in Australia circumvent those rules?

The cheapest agent I know of charges 17,000 BHT for a 'dodgy' 1 year extension of stay.
Not exactly pocket change.

The only financial requirements to move to and live in Australia are the provision of documents to show that you have the financial capability of supporting yourself when you arrive - ideally for at least 4 years and/or until you can gain employment. That is often supported by statements and commitments given by family members already in Australia. There is ZERO requirement to pay any money into an Australian bank account and to keep it there for any period of time - ever. 

Likewise, there is no requirement to apply every 12 months to stay. There is no requirement to report to Police every 90 days. There is no requirement to apply to leave and re-enter the country. The only similar requirement in Australia, and all Civilised 1st world countries that allow people to move and live there, is to report whenever you change your address - until when after 2-3 years of 'good behaviour' you automatically become a Resident. Then if you want to, you can apply to become a Citizen. 

IMO Thailand has failed to properly implement an Immigration System (how unusual I know).  They need their current Immigration system for Tourists - but they need an new 'system' for those who have the financial means to come and live in Thailand permanently in Thailand, like all civilised 1st world countries have.  This constant creation of new Tourist Visas for all the new long-term stays is a dog's breakfast.  If you did not know, technically (legally) all Expats staying in Thailand long term are Tourists. That is why the 90 days reporting and the 12 months annual renewal is required (even if done by themselves under things like Elite Visa) - because the maximum period of stay for a Tourist in the Thai Law is 90 days, and the maximum validity period of a Tourist Visa is 12 months. Thailand does not have a legal basis upon which to allow someone to enter and stay in Thailand as an Immigrant - ONLY as a Tourist (or Diplomat). 

[AussieBob]

16 hours ago, Liquorice said:

Yeah, yeah, I've heard all the excuses before.

The nearest local agent is over an hour's drive from here, yet those who complain about jumping through hoops and over hurdles, will drive an hour there and then back, then a week to ten days later make the same journey. In-between, they are without a Passport.

My extension is based on Thai spouse. All the required documents other than from the bank are already in my possession, Passport, Tabien Baan, I merely have to make a few copies which is really time-consuming and difficult (I'm being sarcastic). A quick trip to the bank then to Immigration, and I'm home, whilst they're still travelling back home from the first visit to the agent.

I wont argue at all - because mine was that way when in Chiang Mai and Rayong. However, that was not the case here in KK.  In fact, because of all the additional and different rules they have here for annual renewals for Marriage, next year I am going to switch to Retirement - unless things change.  Your current situation is great, but as I found out, there is no guarantee it will be that way in the future (they always change some rules here) - and it may not be that way if you ever change Provinces. Chiang Mai to Rayong was a change, but no problems - KK was insulting and difficult and unacceptable.

One size does not fill all, as I found out the hard way in KK.  3 visits to Office, 2 visits to Bank, 3 Officers visited House, 2 Witnesses required in the house who both had to sign witness statements, Insufferable long 10 minute speech by General littledick (in Thai to the Wife and Witnesses), and a overwhelming desire to stand up and tell the little vagina that 'I bought this effin house and I spend over 1 million baht a year in this country - so eff off and get the eff out of my Wife's house you little ................  But because I cannot speak Thai and am older and have a lot more self control than when younger, I remained quiet and still and said nothing.  And then I had to smile while they took a few photos - aarrgh!  

[Khunmark]

19 hours ago, Liquorice said:

There is a financial requirement to reside in Australia, Bob, can agents in Australia circumvent those rules?

It depends on the type of visa you are entering the country with. Refugees obviously don’t pay anything, however a contributory parent whom wants to follow you to Australia is expensive, costing from between 30,000 to 48,000 Australian dollars. Non contributory parent visas are less expensive, but the waiting time is close to ten years. Most other visas, including skilled migrant that offer permanent residency, cost anywhere between $2000-$5000 depending on the class of visa. Skilled Migrant and family visas make up the bulk of the visa types for those applying for permanent residency and the bar is set high.

[Liquorice]

13 hours ago, Skip said:

They do not honor the appointment system... you just know so much about nothing.  I live in Chiang Mai and have friends who spend their entire day trying to deal with immigration here... "it's a nightmare" is their take on it... I play golf while they live their "nightmare"... I use an agent that is 7 minutes from my house and on the way to the golf course so no special trip to deal with them... they are friendly and professional, and I do not mind  paying people to handle matters for me... my time and peace of mind is well worth the baht... but if I, like you, had nothing better to do I could and would do my own as well.

Funny, they honour those appointments for friends.
Maybe they just don't like Americans that play golf.

Oh, I have plenty of things to do, always busy, no time for pitch and putt.

[Liquorice]

11 hours ago, Khunmark said:

Thanks for the info. Can you book for a spouse visa application also?

No idea, to be frank.

Edited December 22 by Liquorice

[Liquorice]

8 hours ago, AussieBob said:

The only financial requirements to move to and live in Australia are the provision of documents to show that you have the financial capability of supporting yourself when you arrive - ideally for at least 4 years and/or until you can gain employment. That is often supported by statements and commitments given by family members already in Australia. There is ZERO requirement to pay any money into an Australian bank account and to keep it there for any period of time - ever. 

Likewise, there is no requirement to apply every 12 months to stay. There is no requirement to report to Police every 90 days. There is no requirement to apply to leave and re-enter the country. The only similar requirement in Australia, and all Civilised 1st world countries that allow people to move and live there, is to report whenever you change your address - until when after 2-3 years of 'good behaviour' you automatically become a Resident. Then if you want to, you can apply to become a Citizen. 

Thanks, Bob.

8 hours ago, AussieBob said:

IMO Thailand has failed to properly implement an Immigration System (how unusual I know).  They need their current Immigration system for Tourists - but they need an new 'system' for those who have the financial means to come and live in Thailand permanently in Thailand, like all civilised 1st world countries have.  This constant creation of new Tourist Visas for all the new long-term stays is a dog's breakfast.  If you did not know, technically (legally) all Expats staying in Thailand long term are Tourists. That is why the 90 days reporting and the 12 months annual renewal is required (even if done by themselves under things like Elite Visa) - because the maximum period of stay for a Tourist in the Thai Law is 90 days, and the maximum validity period of a Tourist Visa is 12 months. Thailand does not have a legal basis upon which to allow someone to enter and stay in Thailand as an Immigrant - ONLY as a Tourist (or Diplomat). 

All visitors, short or long term, have temporary permission of stay.

Even those who obtain PR (permanent residency) still require a re-entry permit if they intend to exit and re-enter. Thailand doesn't want to give the same rights a Thai may have in your Country.
It's all about the money they can extract from foreigners, either in the short or long term haul.

[Liquorice]

8 hours ago, AussieBob said:

One size does not fill all, as I found out the hard way in KK.  3 visits to Office, 2 visits to Bank, 3 Officers visited House, 2 Witnesses required in the house who both had to sign witness statements, Insufferable long 10 minute speech by General littledick (in Thai to the Wife and Witnesses), and a overwhelming desire to stand up and tell the little vagina that 'I bought this effin house and I spend over 1 million baht a year in this country - so eff off and get the eff out of my Wife's house you little ................  But because I cannot speak Thai and am older and have a lot more self control than when younger, I remained quiet and still and said nothing.  And then I had to smile while they took a few photos - aarrgh!  

Again, I have friends in KK and they haven't reported any issues.
I have what I call a comprehensive list of documents Immigration may request, and that has sufficed for friends situated in KK. Only the oddball rouge office that may insist on a hand drawn map, rather than one printed from Google. First time application at a new office will highlight and differences.

The home visits are usually only for the very first application based on Thai spouse to ensure the marriage is de jure and defacto, with witnesses to confirm such.

What documents do/did you supply?

[AussieBob]

On 12/22/2024 at 7:03 PM, Liquorice said:

Thanks, Bob.

All visitors, short or long term, have temporary permission of stay.

Even those who obtain PR (permanent residency) still require a re-entry permit if they intend to exit and re-enter. Thailand doesn't want to give the same rights a Thai may have in your Country.
It's all about the money they can extract from foreigners, either in the short or long term haul.

Yes the extraction of money is an issue, as is the fact that they do not want millions of Laos, Myanmar and Cambodians, etc etc. migrating to Thailand. The extraction of money issue is a vested interest matter - but hopefully one day those 'above' them will one day realise the benefits of fostering Immigration by certain people and countries.  Singapore has found to their benefit for a long time now that 'selected' immigration id good for the country. There is very little chance of an inappropriate Laos or Myanmar person migrating to Singapore - but there is Zero for Thailand. 

[AussieBob]

On 12/22/2024 at 7:14 PM, Liquorice said:

Again, I have friends in KK and they haven't reported any issues.
I have what I call a comprehensive list of documents Immigration may request, and that has sufficed for friends situated in KK. Only the oddball rouge office that may insist on a hand drawn map, rather than one printed from Google. First time application at a new office will highlight and differences.

The home visits are usually only for the very first application based on Thai spouse to ensure the marriage is de jure and defacto, with witnesses to confirm such.

What documents do/did you supply?

Not sure your friends are telling you the truth.  I met and spoke to several Expats (5) while going through the marriage extension process in KK - and they all said it is very strict here, and they visit the house every year. 

Your earlier point of the processes being clear and reasonable, is what I pointed out is wrong because each Province does it their own way and that is IMO wrong. And some (like KK) are pedantic bureaucrats and do things that are not required nor mandated in the rules (like a 10 minute speech).  Each Provincial Police Office for Immigration should not do things drastically different than the next one. Example - parked outside the KK Immigration Police Office is 2 BMW sedans - for home visits and for their tinpot general speeches (and yes, he had his own driver, plus another support Officer). 

[Liquorice]

8 hours ago, AussieBob said:

Your earlier point of the processes being clear and reasonable, is what I pointed out is wrong

There are only so many documents you can supply. I've sent compressive lists of possible required documents to expats in many different Provinces and been thanked as they reported success.

There is only the difference in the format of how the documents are to be presented, such as a map, which may be accepted from a Google print off, whilst others prefer a hand drawn map.
Some want the bank letter and statements dated the same day as the application, whilst other IO's will permit these to be a few days old.

It's not rocket science to establish the requirements of your own IO.

[Skip]

16 hours ago, AussieBob said:

Not sure your friends are telling you the truth.  I met and spoke to several Expats (5) while going through the marriage extension process in KK - and they all said it is very strict here, and they visit the house every year. 

Your earlier point of the processes being clear and reasonable, is what I pointed out is wrong because each Province does it their own way and that is IMO wrong. And some (like KK) are pedantic bureaucrats and do things that are not required nor mandated in the rules (like a 10 minute speech).  Each Provincial Police Office for Immigration should not do things drastically different than the next one. Example - parked outside the KK Immigration Police Office is 2 BMW sedans - for home visits and for their tinpot general speeches (and yes, he had his own driver, plus another support Officer). 

You cannot tell lickerish anything about immigration... he is an almighty expert who has dedicated himself to that post... reality has little to do with it.

[BainaiThai]

On my third extension of our marraige visa in HH the immigration representative grilled my driver whe is both friend and witness (for the last 2 years) for about 5 minutes virtually accussing her to be a fraud......then my wife implying that I am just paying her to qualify for the visa (I do pay her A LOT but, we had a relationship for 7 years on a retirement visa)...then she wanted to deny the extension because my bank bookd doesn't have 40000 montly deposits, it has a yearly balance never less than 400,000. Because she did not speek english she just turned away when I tried to explain this to her.  

I think I am a ripe candidate for an agent in HH.  Anyone know of any?  

[AussieBob]

On 12/27/2024 at 6:25 AM, Skip said:

You cannot tell lickerish anything about immigration... he is an almighty expert who has dedicated himself to that post... reality has little to do with it.

Thanks. I have realised that after reading his last post.  First he said total khrapp about banking in Thailand, and was dead wrong.  Then he made a stupid comment about 'financial requirements' in Australia - which I again proved was total BS.  And now he is arguing semantics about annual renewals in KK.  I thought he was just misinformed - but now I know he is a self-appointed expert that cannot be criticised or corrected, I understand. My bad for being so slow on the uptake.

I think it is time to test him and find out just how much he and his 'friends' do know about Immigration Office in KK. Is what he said real, or total BS - lets find out - I will ask him a question shortly.

[AussieBob]

On 12/26/2024 at 10:38 PM, Liquorice said:

There are only so many documents you can supply. I've sent compressive lists of possible required documents to expats in many different Provinces and been thanked as they reported success.

There is only the difference in the format of how the documents are to be presented, such as a map, which may be accepted from a Google print off, whilst others prefer a hand drawn map.
Some want the bank letter and statements dated the same day as the application, whilst other IO's will permit these to be a few days old.

It's not rocket science to establish the requirements of your own IO.

Seems you claim to be an expert - then answer me this riddle batman and prove yourself.

You claim to have friends in KK who told you what I said was wrong.  OK then - ask them what is unique about the KK Immigration Office itself?  I have been to many in Thailand - from Chiang Mai all the way down to Rayong - there is something unique about the KK Office - what is it??

[AussieBob]

On 12/27/2024 at 12:56 PM, BainaiThai said:

On my third extension of our marraige visa in HH the immigration representative grilled my driver whe is both friend and witness (for the last 2 years) for about 5 minutes virtually accussing her to be a fraud......then my wife implying that I am just paying her to qualify for the visa (I do pay her A LOT but, we had a relationship for 7 years on a retirement visa)...then she wanted to deny the extension because my bank bookd doesn't have 40000 montly deposits, it has a yearly balance never less than 400,000. Because she did not speek english she just turned away when I tried to explain this to her.  

I think I am a ripe candidate for an agent in HH.  Anyone know of any?  

Sorry to hear that - you obviously got 'that' IO on a bad day/week. 

IMO the best way to find an Agent is to go to the Immigration Office and sit and watch. There will be some Thais who come in and get things done - they know the IOs - they dont act or look like people applying for a Visa/Extension etc.  When you see one you like the look of, follow them when they leave and ask if they are an 'agent'. If they speak English very well and appear honest and reliable, then get their contact and their office/company details - then go into their Office at a later time and check things out.  If they operate on mobile and Line only, then say thanks - but stay away - use company/office based Agents only.

[Dezmo]

To clarify -- the 1-year extension of my Non Imm O Visa for retirement stamp indicates :  Jan 21, 2025 in my passport above the stamped words:  ...extension of stay......holder must leave the kingdom within the time specificied....   I may use a service and just do a border run (same day) to Cambodia.

Should I do that run on Jan 21 and then on rentry I get the 60 days exemption or should I do it on Jan 20?

(I may just forgo the current Visa extension renewal I have now and later get it on my own in August or get a DTV once back to the USA in March.)