DTV & ..question..

[Dezmo]

My O retirement visa (1 year extension) expires in Jan 2025. I don't think I can easily renew it as I didn't have the 800k in my bank account for the first few months.

I read about the DTV visa and it might actually be better for me (I'm working).

My question is can I apply for that now while my O visa is still active?

I'll be back in Thailand in January for maybe 1-2 months and guess I could just exit when my O expires and come back in just after,  and get the 60 day exemption stamp, and later apply for the DTV when back in the USA.

Thx.

[BlueSphinx]

I presume that you bought a Re-Entry Permit prior to exiting Thailand, otherwise the 1-year extension of your Non Imm O Visa for retirement became invalid the moment you left Thailand.

When you re-enter Thailand on that Re-Entry Permit you will be stamped in by Thai border immigration for the remainder of your Permission to stay. 

So when you only plan to stay 3 months, it would be easier for you to ask border immigration on your return to ignore that Re-Entry Permit, and simply stamp you in Visa Exempt which will provide you with a 60 days Permission to stay stamp which can be easily extended for an additional 30 days at any Thai provincial Imm Office (costs 1.900 THB and is delivered on the spot).  

The DTV can ONLY be applied for when in your home-country, but afaik that Visa has not yet become available (it was planned to be rolled out in July) and so the requirements for an application from the Thai embassy/consulate in US are not clear yet.  It might involve having Thai-approved Health-Insurance.  

Note that you can only do online work for non-Thai customers with that DTV and that you must have evidence of a 'cultural' reason to apply for it (e.g. learning Thai language, Thai cooking, muay thai, or likewise).

[Dezmo]

I do have a ME Permit.   It may be easier to ask for the 60 days Permission and then apply once back in the USA after my O visa expires. Though I was curious if it mattered if I applied for the DTV when I still had the O and if they would care?

I thought I read a few folks mentioning that they got the DTV in the USA but I may be mistaken. I would hope the requirements are standard but I know interpretation can vary. Ha!

I think your last paragraph is an "or" condition :)

Thought I could apply here once an account is created..

https://www.thaievisa.go.th/

 

[Liquorice]

9 hours ago, Dezmo said:

My question is can I apply for that now while my O visa is still active?

Your O visa is already invalid, but you have Non Immigrant status and valid permission of stay, which is a permit, not a visa.

10 hours ago, Dezmo said:

I'll be back in Thailand in January for maybe 1-2 months and guess I could just exit when my O expires and come back in just after,  and get the 60 day exemption stamp, and later apply for the DTV when back in the USA.

As your extension is due for renewal in Jan 2025, if you enter prior to your valid permission of stay, then you'll be stamped in until the renewal date. If you enter after your permission of stay expires, you'll receive the 60 day visa exempt entry stamp.

[Liquorice]

2 hours ago, BlueSphinx said:

The DTV can ONLY be applied for when in your home-country, but afaik that Visa has not yet become available (it was planned to be rolled out in July) and so the requirements for an application from the Thai embassy/consulate in US are not clear yet.  It might involve having Thai-approved Health-Insurance.  

Incorrect.

1. Only certain nationalities may have to apply from their home Country. Most nationals can apply at most Thai Embassies, as the DTV is classed as a Tourist visa type.

2. The DTV was rolled out on 15th July and has already been issued to multiple applicants.

 

3. The requirements from the Thai Embassy DC for the DTV are clear to me.
https://washingtondc.thaiembassy.org/en/page/dtv-visa

4. Health Insurance is not a requirement.

[Dezmo]

48 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

Your O visa is already invalid, but you have Non Immigrant status and valid permission of stay, which is a permit, not a visa.

As your extension is due for renewal in Jan 2025, if you enter prior to your valid permission of stay, then you'll be stamped in until the renewal date. If you enter after your permission of stay expires, you'll receive the 60 day visa exempt entry stamp.

I am confused... how can my O Visa be invalid (in my Passport says it is good until Jan 21, 2025)? ... and from what I read on legal sites: " A Thailand Retirement Visa is often known as an “Extension of Stay based on Retirement.” This is because the Thailand Retirement Visa is an extension of a non-immigrant O visa Thailand or a non-immigrant OA visa Thailand, " 

[Liquorice]

A visa cannot be extended.
A single entry Non O visa valid for 3 months, is 'USED' on entry.
A multiple entry Non O visa valid for 1 year, becomes invalid on the 'enter before' date.
Neither can be used again for entry to Thailand.
You wouldn't need a re-entry permit if you had a 1 year Non O visa, it would be multiple entry, and it certainly wouldn't have been issued by Thai Immigration.

On entry to Thailand using a Non O visa, you are granted a period of stay, the stamp will state  'permitted to stay' until (90 days). At Immigration, you then apply to extend that period of stay, which is a permit.

From Thailand Ministry of Foreign Ministry of Affairs;
https://www.mfa.go.th/en/page/general-information?menu=5e1ff6d057b01e00a6391dc5
 

7. Please note that the period of visa validity is different from the period of stay.  Visa validity is the period during which a visa can be used to enter Thailand.  In general, the validity of a visa is 3 months, but in some cases, visas may be issued to be valid for 6 months, 1 year or 3 years.  The validity of a visa is granted with discretion by the Royal Thai Embassy or Royal Thai Consulate-General and is displayed on the visa sticker. 

8. On the other hand, the period of stay is granted by an immigration officer upon arrival at the port of entry and in accordance with the type of visa.  For example, the period of stay for a transit visa is not exceeding 30 days, for a tourist visa is not exceeding 60 days and for a non-immigrant visa is not exceeding 90 days from the arrival date.  The period of stay granted by the immigration officer is displayed on the arrival stamp.  Travellers who wish to stay longer than such period may apply for extension of stay at offices of the Immigration Bureau 

To apply to extend your period of stay in Thailand at Immigration, you complete form TM7:
APPLICATION FOR EXTENSION OF TEMPORARY STAY IN THE KINGDOM.
(Extending your period of stay that was initially granted on entry).

You're then required to sign a couple of other forms;
Acknowledgement of the Overstay rules and form STM2, acknowledging the terms and conditions for permit of temporary stay in the Kingdom of Thailand, which clearly states;
'I do hereby acknowledge the terms and conditions applicable to this permit'.

Permits extending your permission of stay do not allow entries to Thailand as a valid visa would, which is why you have to purchase a separate re-entry permit to keep any permission of stay already granted, valid on re-entry.

Read your stamps carefully and understand their meanings.
Even though a single entry Non O visa is 'USED' on first entry, your Immigration status remains as 'Non Immigrant' provided you consecutively extend your period of stay.

[Dezmo]

Thanks again.    

I may not work until next year so pass on the DTV, for now.

I may try to ask for the typical tourist stamp for the 60 days exemption when i arrive (if before Jan 21 when my O expires)...  but i had a question about the bank statements showing the 800k in the prior ~12 months.   

Do they reqiuire paper statements from the bank?    I know i can request statements online and wonder if I can just print them.. (just wondering is maybe they will allow a renewal <?> with just 11 months of statements. It might be worth a shot.  And if i renew the O for 1 years I assume I need to apply for the ME separately as before.

I had a hassle with Bangkok Bank before in Nonthburi as I opened the account in Bangkok and they said I had to go there to do everything (I was changing my address) yet at the Bangkok branch they told me any branch can service me :)  ugh!

Lastly ,for now :)  If I arrive on the O and it expires on Jan 21,  I know I can leave and come back in and get the 60 days stamp.  Does this have to be by air or can i just cross a border, for example, into Cambodia/Laos and come back into Thailand?

I may be on a motorcyle trip  when it may expire (unless I can convince the officer to stamp me for the 60 days instead).

Edited December 9 by Dezmo

[AussieBob]

On 12/9/2024 at 10:38 PM, Dezmo said:

I had a hassle with Bangkok Bank before in Nonthburi as I opened the account in Bangkok and they said I had to go there to do everything (I was changing my address) yet at the Bangkok branch they told me any branch can service me :)  ugh!

Lastly ,for now :)  If I arrive on the O and it expires on Jan 21,  I know I can leave and come back in and get the 60 days stamp.  Does this have to be by air or can i just cross a border, for example, into Cambodia/Laos and come back into Thailand?

Yep about the bank.  Thailand is structured for most of its systems, processes and businesses on a Provincial basis. Even with a National issue, such as Immigration policing/control of long term Expats, each Province Immigration Office does it their own way. All the banks are National in name and back-end systems only - each Province is like a Franchise and you have to go back to that Province for major issues.

When you leave Thailand, whatever Visa you used to enter becomes invalid - unless you get a Certificate/Permit to leave and re-enter using the same entry Visa.  Easiest is to just get an automatic 60 day Tourist 'Visa' upon entry - many countries used to be offered an automatic 90 days on entry 'Visa' for Tourists - not sure if that is still valid, or if will be re-introduced over Dec/Jan/Feb high season.

[Liquorice]

On 12/9/2024 at 10:38 PM, Dezmo said:

I had a hassle with Bangkok Bank before in Nonthburi as I opened the account in Bangkok and they said I had to go there to do everything (I was changing my address) yet at the Bangkok branch they told me any branch can service me :)  ugh!

You can simply transfer your account to another branch.

On 12/9/2024 at 10:38 PM, Dezmo said:

Lastly ,for now :)  If I arrive on the O and it expires on Jan 21,  I know I can leave and come back in and get the 60 days stamp.  Does this have to be by air or can i just cross a border, for example, into Cambodia/Laos and come back into Thailand?

If you arrive at a Non O. you will be granted permission of stay for 90 days.

The validity of a visa is the period you can use it to enter Thailand.
The period of stay is granted on entry, dependent on the type of entry.

If your Non 0 is valid until Jan 21st, you can enter on Jan 20th, and you will still be permitted to stay for 90 days, until April 20th.

[Dezmo]

2 hours ago, Liquorice said:

You can simply transfer your account to another branch.

If you arrive at a Non O. you will be granted permission of stay for 90 days.

The validity of a visa is the period you can use it to enter Thailand.
The period of stay is granted on entry, dependent on the type of entry.

If your Non 0 is valid until Jan 21st, you can enter on Jan 20th, and you will still be permitted to stay for 90 days, until April 20th.

Ah thanks. I misunderstood.     I may arrive ~Jan 6 so I am good until the end of Feb when I need to go back to the USA.  (< 90days>

 

[Dezmo]

6 hours ago, Liquorice said:

You can simply transfer your account to another branch.

If you arrive at a Non O. you will be granted permission of stay for 90 days.

The validity of a visa is the period you can use it to enter Thailand.
The period of stay is granted on entry, dependent on the type of entry.

If your Non 0 is valid until Jan 21st, you can enter on Jan 20th, and you will still be permitted to stay for 90 days, until April 20th.

I spoke too soon above.

When I entered in Jan and then Aug this year they stamped my Passport - Jan 21, 2025.   I am on the 1 year extension on the Non O visa.

Why would they then stamp it 90 days out if I enter before Jan 21? 

BlueSphinx said:

When you re-enter Thailand on that Re-Entry Permit you will be stamped in by Thai border immigration for the remainder of your Permission to stay. 

Per my original question, my assumption would be a Jan 21 stamp, and I might be on a motobike trip and can step into Laos, etc. for an afternoon or days and when I reenter get the 60 day stamp (I assume).

 

[Liquorice]

3 hours ago, Dezmo said:

I spoke too soon above.

When I entered in Jan and then Aug this year they stamped my Passport - Jan 21, 2025.   I am on the 1 year extension on the Non O visa.

Why would they then stamp it 90 days out if I enter before Jan 21? 

You stated you were entering on a Non o visa !!!

Sounds as though you're entering on a 1-year extension (a permit, not a visa) of stay with re-entry permit.
In which case you'll be stamped in until Jan 21st.

 

3 hours ago, Dezmo said:

Per my original question, my assumption would be a Jan 21 stamp, and I might be on a motobike trip and can step into Laos, etc. for an afternoon or days and when I reenter get the 60 day stamp (I assume).

Correct, although you may now have to stay 1/2 nights in Lao before being allowed to re-enter visa exempt.
You'll get 60 days when you re-enter.

[AussieBob]

On 12/12/2024 at 9:23 PM, Liquorice said:

You can simply transfer your account to another branch.

Only within the same Province.  Otherwise you have to open a new account and then you can transfer the funds across.

[Liquorice]

7 hours ago, AussieBob said:

Only within the same Province.  Otherwise you have to open a new account and then you can transfer the funds across.

When I requested transferring my account to a different branch in a different Province, they automatically opened a new account. Goes without saying.

[AussieBob]

13 hours ago, Liquorice said:

When I requested transferring my account to a different branch in a different Province, they automatically opened a new account. Goes without saying.

Fair enough, but my point being it has to be applied for in the new Province and it is a separate new account. Plus you have to be in the old Province to cancel the old account - and you lose all the transaction history.

When I was presented with that issue (at two Thai banks) I said why can I not cancel them here, or over the phone. If you know Thailand then you know the answer - 'that how done here'. But they both said that as long as the account has a zero balance and remains inactive for 12 months, the old Province bank will automatically cancel it. 

[Liquorice]

6 hours ago, AussieBob said:

Fair enough, but my point being it has to be applied for in the new Province and it is a separate new account. Plus you have to be in the old Province to cancel the old account - and you lose all the transaction history.

When I was presented with that issue (at two Thai banks) I said why can I not cancel them here, or over the phone. If you know Thailand then you know the answer - 'that how done here'. But they both said that as long as the account has a zero balance and remains inactive for 12 months, the old Province bank will automatically cancel it. 

That wasn't my experience.

The new branch set up a new account, transferred the funds, after which the old account was closed.
I didn't have to go back to the old branch in a different Province, or even contact them, it was dealt with by the new branch.

I didn't need any proof of previous transactions, as I use the funds in the bank for Immigration purposes.
I had receipts for proof of transfers. If they told you it took 12 months for the old account to 'automatically' close, then you had plenty of time to download any previous transactions for that account.

This sounds like one of the many classic tales many experience in Thailand when a clerk states 'cannot', unless you do X,Y,Z, when in fact it means they don't know how to do it. It's a lucky dip, just managing to drop on the right person that knows their job and how to do it efficiently.

Wish I had 20BHT for every time I've been told 'no hab', then you find it yourself, or 'no can do', then a different assistant just does it without question.  

[AussieBob]

59 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

That wasn't my experience.

The new branch set up a new account, transferred the funds, after which the old account was closed.
I didn't have to go back to the old branch in a different Province, or even contact them, it was dealt with by the new branch.

I didn't need any proof of previous transactions, as I use the funds in the bank for Immigration purposes.
I had receipts for proof of transfers. If they told you it took 12 months for the old account to 'automatically' close, then you had plenty of time to download any previous transactions for that account.

This sounds like one of the many classic tales many experience in Thailand when a clerk states 'cannot', unless you do X,Y,Z, when in fact it means they don't know how to do it. It's a lucky dip, just managing to drop on the right person that knows their job and how to do it efficiently.

Wish I had 20BHT for every time I've been told 'no hab', then you find it yourself, or 'no can do', then a different assistant just does it without question.  

Which bank.  Mine was Bangkok Bank and Krungthai Bank. 

[Pinetree]

Jesus, talk about making life complicated for yourself.  Just contact a Visa Agent here in Thailand, explain the issue to them, and  pay them to sort it out for you, or, at the very least, explain the process to you. 

[Liquorice]

22 hours ago, AussieBob said:

Which bank.  Mine was Bangkok Bank and Krungthai Bank. 

Aah! I transferred accounts BKB to BKB in a different Province, hence the difference I expect.

[Liquorice]

22 hours ago, Pinetree said:

Jesus, talk about making life complicated for yourself.  Just contact a Visa Agent here in Thailand, explain the issue to them, and  pay them to sort it out for you, or, at the very least, explain the process to you. 

You learn nothing using an agent and get fleeced for something you can do yourself.
I'm retired, got all the time in the world.

[Pinetree]

15 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

You learn nothing using an agent and get fleeced for something you can do yourself.
I'm retired, got all the time in the world.

Not true, Depends on who you use. It's not just about having available time.  It's about getting accurate information and avoiding the many bad options and pitfalls. 

[Liquorice]

14 hours ago, Pinetree said:

Not true, Depends on who you use. It's not just about having available time.  It's about getting accurate information and avoiding the many bad options and pitfalls. 

The information is already out there and posted on this forum.
An agent would have you believe there was a problem when non elitists. They want your money

Been doing my own extensions and those of others for 12 years.

[AussieBob]

On 12/16/2024 at 5:17 PM, Liquorice said:

Aah! I transferred accounts BKB to BKB in a different Province, hence the difference I expect.

Then I have some news for you and any others reading this exchange.  Between the wife and I we have had 6 BKB accounts - Bangkok, Chiang Mai, Rayong, Chonburi, Roi Et and Khon Kaen. Not one of them would transfer the account to another Province - we had to open a new one and then go into the first branch office where we opened the old account. After doing that once we stopped wasting our time, because all that happened was that the old branch cancelled and closed our account - after transferring the money to the new account which had all new numbers and new card. 

Perhaps you just did not understand. In Australia when I had a bank account in any State, I could and did transfer that account to another branch of same bank in any other State - same account number, same card and number, and same transactions history - but different BSB number. That is called transferring a bank account - going into a new branch and transferring the existing account to that bank branch. That does not happen in Thailand because each Province is like a Franchise - there are no National banks here. They are like McDonalds - each shop is its own business and although controlled and supplied by HQ, they are all separate businesses. In fact - in Thailand that is very much the case across most 'national' businesses - they are Province based.  

[AussieBob]

On 12/17/2024 at 8:21 AM, Liquorice said:

The information is already out there and posted on this forum.
An agent would have you believe there was a problem when non elitists. They want your money

Been doing my own extensions and those of others for 12 years.

I agree - I do everything myself - it is easy and clear. If not sure about anything I just go into the local Provincial Office and ask them how to do it (or the wife does actually).

There is a valid need for an 'agent' however. I know of several single retired Expats here on the Pension that just do not have the needed 800K bank deposit, or just dont want to keep that much here in Thailand (In Australia that is close to $40K and for many that is a lot of money).  So what they do is use an agent who organises for a bank letter/deposit to be provided and does all the other stuff - including 90 day reporting. Yes that might be clamped down upon in the future, but until then spending a small amount of money on an agent is very worthwhile.