For dog lover's only - Turkey's Stray Dog Massacre

[1000YearVampire]

See https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13731981/Turkey-stray-dog-massacre-President-Erdogan.html

[Thaidup]

PETA, where are you,------------ shhhh-------- thats a Muslim country. PETA only complains in the countries that pay them.

[AussieBob]

I dont have a problem with this. The dog's destroyed/killed were those strays who behaved aggressively and refused to be taken away - thereby endangering those tasked with collecting them.

However, it is clear some people took matters into their own hands and decided to 'help' the official collectors by killing those local dogs that they had issues with for years.  That must be addressed and stopped - they should continue with the cull.

[cowslip]

Only thing is...culls don't work.

[AussieBob]

On 12/18/2024 at 4:46 PM, cowslip said:

Only thing is...culls don't work.

They certainly help a lot more than doing nothing. 

[cowslip]

3 hours ago, AussieBob said:

They certainly help a lot more than doing nothing. 

No...it just improves the strength of the population.

The dogs culled are rapidly replaced by new liiters...up to 3 a year by stray bitches.

Thenew ones are also are not vaccinated so can spread zoonotic diseases like rabies.

The only effective way is a combination of capture, neuter vaccine and release and sorting put how human garbage is controlled.

So long as there is garbage, there is a food supply for dogs and the population responds accordingly.

It's very arrogant of humans to blame the dogs when it is thehumans fault they are there in the first place.Culls are just a reflection of ignorant the authorities are

[AussieBob]

On 12/20/2024 at 1:52 PM, cowslip said:

No...it just improves the strength of the population.

The dogs culled are rapidly replaced by new liiters...up to 3 a year by stray bitches.

Thenew ones are also are not vaccinated so can spread zoonotic diseases like rabies.

The only effective way is a combination of capture, neuter vaccine and release and sorting put how human garbage is controlled.

So long as there is garbage, there is a food supply for dogs and the population responds accordingly.

It's very arrogant of humans to blame the dogs when it is thehumans fault they are there in the first place.Culls are just a reflection of ignorant the authorities are

Your opinion that seems logical but does not work because it takes a lot of effort to constantly catch and neuter the dogs.  The only clear solution IMO is both - catch and and either neuter or destroy those without a home. That is why we dont have the same dog problems in the west.  

[23RD]

It's a dogs life in a Muslim Country anyone notice how the followers of the ROP like cats very similar to Liberals. 

[AussieBob]

19 hours ago, 23RD said:

It's a dogs life in a Muslim Country anyone notice how the followers of the ROP like cats very similar to Liberals. 

Yes I have noticed that for many decades now. Some cats are OK (a few) - but all dogs are great. 

[cowslip]

On 12/21/2024 at 2:53 PM, AussieBob said:

Your opinion that seems logical but does not work because it takes a lot of effort to constantly catch and neuter the dogs.  The only clear solution IMO is both - catch and and either neuter or destroy those without a home. That is why we dont have the same dog problems in the west.  

It's not what happens in the "west". Look at Netherlands experience 

Garbage in the west etc is not so available to dog populations to grow and people don't feed stray dogs .

Controlling dogs populations once they are small is much easier.

If you kill off dogs in a large population the gaps they leave are instantly filled with dogs from nearby territories.

If you return dogs after CNVR, they refill the gap, but can't breed or spread diseases like rabies. The average street life of a "soi" dog is 3 to 5 years . It's  likely that each female is capable of producing 50-60 puppies, or more,  in fact up to 80 has been known.

The number of dogs in an area is dictated by the food supply...they breed quickly too.

The CNVR has dramatically reduced the number of stray dogs over the last  few years. Because the drop is gradual and not dramatic or 'overnight", people don't realise it's about a 10th of what it used to be.

A similar program is being carried out in Bangkok  and on Samui. 

[AussieBob]

On 12/23/2024 at 7:35 AM, cowslip said:

It's not what happens in the "west". Look at Netherlands experience 

Garbage in the west etc is not so available to dog populations to grow and people don't feed stray dogs .

Controlling dogs populations once they are small is much easier.

If you kill off dogs in a large population the gaps they leave are instantly filled with dogs from nearby territories.

If you return dogs after CNVR, they refill the gap, but can't breed or spread diseases like rabies. The average street life of a "soi" dog is 3 to 5 years . It's  likely that each female is capable of producing 50-60 puppies, or more,  in fact up to 80 has been known.

The number of dogs in an area is dictated by the food supply...they breed quickly too.

The CNVR has dramatically reduced the number of stray dogs over the last  few years. Because the drop is gradual and not dramatic or 'overnight", people don't realise it's about a 10th of what it used to be.

A similar program is being carried out in Bangkok  and on Samui. 

I cannot agree because what works is there to see in the West, and what doesn't work is here.  The solution does not care about People's feelings and habits or preferences - and yes it takes time and several culls - but that is what it takes. A drastic change must be implemented and stuck at - or it will not work - and then the problem just stays around.  Think of it this way - making something illegal does not stop people doing it - what stops people doing it is enforcement and punishment - the law that makes it illegal does not.    

[cowslip]

27 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

I cannot agree because what works is there to see in the West, and what doesn't work is here.  The solution does not care about People's feelings and habits or preferences - and yes it takes time and several culls - but that is what it takes. A drastic change must be implemented and stuck at - or it will not work - and then the problem just stays around.  Think of it this way - making something illegal does not stop people doing it - what stops people doing it is enforcement and punishment - the law that makes it illegal does not.    

No you are just plain and simply wrong. It has been tried in Bangkok and was a disaster. It actually strengthens the dog population.

Dogs are the same species world wide and how to control them is a science.

Amy racist ideas about  how humans deal with dogs are overuled by the science 

 

You will find the only places in the world where a cull has worked on any species is on small islands 

[AussieBob]

2 hours ago, cowslip said:

No you are just plain and simply wrong. It has been tried in Bangkok and was a disaster. It actually strengthens the dog population.

Dogs are the same species world wide and how to control them is a science.

Amy racist ideas about  how humans deal with dogs are overuled by the science 

You will find the only places in the world where a cull has worked on any species is on small islands 

ROFLOL - you seriously think anyone that disagrees with you is racist? You know what that means dont you?? It means you are a 'race baiter' and a racist, if you think calling someone else a racist makes your argument any stronger. 

The reason there are few 'dog problems' like they have here in Thailand (wandering strays everywhere making life miserable for people), is because the authorities enforce dog control laws/rules. Stray dogs are rounded up, including those with an owner, and those dogs deemed 'adoptable' or not claimed, are offered for adoption. Those not deemed adoptable, or who after 3-6 months are not adopted, are put to sleep (culled).  

I will say it again. Your 'solution' does not work - because it takes a lot of effort to constantly catch and neuter the all the dogs and then releasing them. But the only real solution is to catch and either neuter or destroy those without a home - every day every week every month every year - and ongoing.  That is why we dont have the same dog problems in the West as they do here in Thailand - all stray dogs are rounded up - they are called 'dog catchers' and 'Pounds' are where the dogs are taken.   

Here in Thailand - every now and then - some do-gooders embark on a waste of taxpayer/donor money by catching and neutering some dogs - they get publicity and it makes them feel good - but it does not solve the problem - because that has to be done to all of them all at once. The 'western' system is far better - because it works - and because over time it solves the problem.  There are do-gooders in the West too - they 'save' dogs about the be destroyed and provide them a home/farm - they take them there after they are neutered at their expense. If they do what some did, and release them, they are banned from taking dogs about to be destroyed. 

There is another solution - South Korea resolved it a long time ago. 

[SnapDragon]

There was a big dog problem in East London after WW11. Some areas were out of bounds. And kids could only feel really safe in fenced off play areas.

It was all down to the bombing of the East End. People were drafted. People were killed. People were evacuated. People were relocated due to losing their homes. The dogs, then without owners, formed packs and would seek out areas where there was some food. Along the Thames right up to Grays (on the Nth bank) was popular with the packs, as they could catch and eat seagulls. Gradually - and it was well into the 1950s - the authorities sorted the problem out.