For dog lover's only - Turkey's Stray Dog Massacre

[1000YearVampire]

See https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13731981/Turkey-stray-dog-massacre-President-Erdogan.html

[Thaidup]

PETA, where are you,------------ shhhh-------- thats a Muslim country. PETA only complains in the countries that pay them.

[AussieBob]

I dont have a problem with this. The dog's destroyed/killed were those strays who behaved aggressively and refused to be taken away - thereby endangering those tasked with collecting them.

However, it is clear some people took matters into their own hands and decided to 'help' the official collectors by killing those local dogs that they had issues with for years.  That must be addressed and stopped - they should continue with the cull.

[cowslip]

Only thing is...culls don't work.

[AussieBob]

On 12/18/2024 at 4:46 PM, cowslip said:

Only thing is...culls don't work.

They certainly help a lot more than doing nothing. 

[cowslip]

3 hours ago, AussieBob said:

They certainly help a lot more than doing nothing. 

No...it just improves the strength of the population.

The dogs culled are rapidly replaced by new liiters...up to 3 a year by stray bitches.

Thenew ones are also are not vaccinated so can spread zoonotic diseases like rabies.

The only effective way is a combination of capture, neuter vaccine and release and sorting put how human garbage is controlled.

So long as there is garbage, there is a food supply for dogs and the population responds accordingly.

It's very arrogant of humans to blame the dogs when it is thehumans fault they are there in the first place.Culls are just a reflection of ignorant the authorities are

[AussieBob]

On 12/20/2024 at 1:52 PM, cowslip said:

No...it just improves the strength of the population.

The dogs culled are rapidly replaced by new liiters...up to 3 a year by stray bitches.

Thenew ones are also are not vaccinated so can spread zoonotic diseases like rabies.

The only effective way is a combination of capture, neuter vaccine and release and sorting put how human garbage is controlled.

So long as there is garbage, there is a food supply for dogs and the population responds accordingly.

It's very arrogant of humans to blame the dogs when it is thehumans fault they are there in the first place.Culls are just a reflection of ignorant the authorities are

Your opinion that seems logical but does not work because it takes a lot of effort to constantly catch and neuter the dogs.  The only clear solution IMO is both - catch and and either neuter or destroy those without a home. That is why we dont have the same dog problems in the west.  

[23RD]

It's a dogs life in a Muslim Country anyone notice how the followers of the ROP like cats very similar to Liberals. 

[AussieBob]

19 hours ago, 23RD said:

It's a dogs life in a Muslim Country anyone notice how the followers of the ROP like cats very similar to Liberals. 

Yes I have noticed that for many decades now. Some cats are OK (a few) - but all dogs are great. 

[cowslip]

On 12/21/2024 at 2:53 PM, AussieBob said:

Your opinion that seems logical but does not work because it takes a lot of effort to constantly catch and neuter the dogs.  The only clear solution IMO is both - catch and and either neuter or destroy those without a home. That is why we dont have the same dog problems in the west.  

It's not what happens in the "west". Look at Netherlands experience 

Garbage in the west etc is not so available to dog populations to grow and people don't feed stray dogs .

Controlling dogs populations once they are small is much easier.

If you kill off dogs in a large population the gaps they leave are instantly filled with dogs from nearby territories.

If you return dogs after CNVR, they refill the gap, but can't breed or spread diseases like rabies. The average street life of a "soi" dog is 3 to 5 years . It's  likely that each female is capable of producing 50-60 puppies, or more,  in fact up to 80 has been known.

The number of dogs in an area is dictated by the food supply...they breed quickly too.

The CNVR has dramatically reduced the number of stray dogs over the last  few years. Because the drop is gradual and not dramatic or 'overnight", people don't realise it's about a 10th of what it used to be.

A similar program is being carried out in Bangkok  and on Samui. 

[AussieBob]

On 12/23/2024 at 7:35 AM, cowslip said:

It's not what happens in the "west". Look at Netherlands experience 

Garbage in the west etc is not so available to dog populations to grow and people don't feed stray dogs .

Controlling dogs populations once they are small is much easier.

If you kill off dogs in a large population the gaps they leave are instantly filled with dogs from nearby territories.

If you return dogs after CNVR, they refill the gap, but can't breed or spread diseases like rabies. The average street life of a "soi" dog is 3 to 5 years . It's  likely that each female is capable of producing 50-60 puppies, or more,  in fact up to 80 has been known.

The number of dogs in an area is dictated by the food supply...they breed quickly too.

The CNVR has dramatically reduced the number of stray dogs over the last  few years. Because the drop is gradual and not dramatic or 'overnight", people don't realise it's about a 10th of what it used to be.

A similar program is being carried out in Bangkok  and on Samui. 

I cannot agree because what works is there to see in the West, and what doesn't work is here.  The solution does not care about People's feelings and habits or preferences - and yes it takes time and several culls - but that is what it takes. A drastic change must be implemented and stuck at - or it will not work - and then the problem just stays around.  Think of it this way - making something illegal does not stop people doing it - what stops people doing it is enforcement and punishment - the law that makes it illegal does not.    

[cowslip]

27 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

I cannot agree because what works is there to see in the West, and what doesn't work is here.  The solution does not care about People's feelings and habits or preferences - and yes it takes time and several culls - but that is what it takes. A drastic change must be implemented and stuck at - or it will not work - and then the problem just stays around.  Think of it this way - making something illegal does not stop people doing it - what stops people doing it is enforcement and punishment - the law that makes it illegal does not.    

No you are just plain and simply wrong. It has been tried in Bangkok and was a disaster. It actually strengthens the dog population.

Dogs are the same species world wide and how to control them is a science.

Amy racist ideas about  how humans deal with dogs are overuled by the science 

 

You will find the only places in the world where a cull has worked on any species is on small islands 

[AussieBob]

2 hours ago, cowslip said:

No you are just plain and simply wrong. It has been tried in Bangkok and was a disaster. It actually strengthens the dog population.

Dogs are the same species world wide and how to control them is a science.

Amy racist ideas about  how humans deal with dogs are overuled by the science 

You will find the only places in the world where a cull has worked on any species is on small islands 

ROFLOL - you seriously think anyone that disagrees with you is racist? You know what that means dont you?? It means you are a 'race baiter' and a racist, if you think calling someone else a racist makes your argument any stronger. 

The reason there are few 'dog problems' like they have here in Thailand (wandering strays everywhere making life miserable for people), is because the authorities enforce dog control laws/rules. Stray dogs are rounded up, including those with an owner, and those dogs deemed 'adoptable' or not claimed, are offered for adoption. Those not deemed adoptable, or who after 3-6 months are not adopted, are put to sleep (culled).  

I will say it again. Your 'solution' does not work - because it takes a lot of effort to constantly catch and neuter the all the dogs and then releasing them. But the only real solution is to catch and either neuter or destroy those without a home - every day every week every month every year - and ongoing.  That is why we dont have the same dog problems in the West as they do here in Thailand - all stray dogs are rounded up - they are called 'dog catchers' and 'Pounds' are where the dogs are taken.   

Here in Thailand - every now and then - some do-gooders embark on a waste of taxpayer/donor money by catching and neutering some dogs - they get publicity and it makes them feel good - but it does not solve the problem - because that has to be done to all of them all at once. The 'western' system is far better - because it works - and because over time it solves the problem.  There are do-gooders in the West too - they 'save' dogs about the be destroyed and provide them a home/farm - they take them there after they are neutered at their expense. If they do what some did, and release them, they are banned from taking dogs about to be destroyed. 

There is another solution - South Korea resolved it a long time ago. 

[SnapDragon]

There was a big dog problem in East London after WW11. Some areas were out of bounds. And kids could only feel really safe in fenced off play areas.

It was all down to the bombing of the East End. People were drafted. People were killed. People were evacuated. People were relocated due to losing their homes. The dogs, then without owners, formed packs and would seek out areas where there was some food. Along the Thames right up to Grays (on the Nth bank) was popular with the packs, as they could catch and eat seagulls. Gradually - and it was well into the 1950s - the authorities sorted the problem out.

[AussieBob]

On 12/26/2024 at 5:50 PM, SnapDragon said:

There was a big dog problem in East London after WW11. Some areas were out of bounds. And kids could only feel really safe in fenced off play areas.

It was all down to the bombing of the East End. People were drafted. People were killed. People were evacuated. People were relocated due to losing their homes. The dogs, then without owners, formed packs and would seek out areas where there was some food. Along the Thames right up to Grays (on the Nth bank) was popular with the packs, as they could catch and eat seagulls. Gradually - and it was well into the 1950s - the authorities sorted the problem out.

Similar situation in western Sydney Australia in the 70s - people were dumping dogs they no longer wanted or could not afford. Likewise the authorities sorted it out - and that became the basis across all of Australia.

Personally I would like them to do something similar with cats in the West - they do a lot of damage to the local wildlife in urban areas. But because they are not a danger to humans, cats are left alone.  

[Khunmark]

Aussie Bob trying to impose his Western sensibilities on the local population. It may come as a surprise but Thailand has gone down the euthanasia path as far as stray dogs are concerned. That was about 30 years ago. So why isn’t the practice still being pursued? Well, it turns out that it had a lot to do with the public outcry from the locals who viewed the practice as an abomination. 
 

Furthermore, if you bother to watch the nightly news, you would quickly come to the realisation that the real problem concerning our four legged friends, is not the mangy soi dog who is largely docile by nature, but the owned dogs that somehow manage to devour passers-by because their owner, who aside from having a hard-on for notoriously viscous breeds of dogs, know neither how to confine or control them.

[cowslip]

On 12/26/2024 at 10:50 AM, SnapDragon said:

There was a big dog problem in East London after WW11. Some areas were out of bounds. And kids could only feel really safe in fenced off play areas.

It was all down to the bombing of the East End. People were drafted. People were killed. People were evacuated. People were relocated due to losing their homes. The dogs, then without owners, formed packs and would seek out areas where there was some food. Along the Thames right up to Grays (on the Nth bank) was popular with the packs, as they could catch and eat seagulls. Gradually - and it was well into the 1950s - the authorities sorted the problem out.

THere was no cull of dogs in England after WW2 - the "cull" as it were, took place before the war as the authorities ere worried that pets would be a drian on food and resources - it actually tuned into a farce as people didn't want to kill their pets.

 

Govt announcement in the papers....

"If at all possible, send or take your household animals into the country in advance of an emergency." It concluded: "If you cannot place them in the care of neighbours, it really is kindest to have them destroyed."

[cowslip]

On 12/26/2024 at 10:13 AM, AussieBob said:

ROFLOL - you seriously think anyone that disagrees with you is racist? You know what that means dont you?? It means you are a 'race baiter' and a racist, if you think calling someone else a racist makes your argument any stronger. 

The reason there are few 'dog problems' like they have here in Thailand (wandering strays everywhere making life miserable for people), is because the authorities enforce dog control laws/rules. Stray dogs are rounded up, including those with an owner, and those dogs deemed 'adoptable' or not claimed, are offered for adoption. Those not deemed adoptable, or who after 3-6 months are not adopted, are put to sleep (culled).  

I will say it again. Your 'solution' does not work - because it takes a lot of effort to constantly catch and neuter the all the dogs and then releasing them. But the only real solution is to catch and either neuter or destroy those without a home - every day every week every month every year - and ongoing.  That is why we dont have the same dog problems in the West as they do here in Thailand - all stray dogs are rounded up - they are called 'dog catchers' and 'Pounds' are where the dogs are taken.   

Here in Thailand - every now and then - some do-gooders embark on a waste of taxpayer/donor money by catching and neutering some dogs - they get publicity and it makes them feel good - but it does not solve the problem - because that has to be done to all of them all at once. The 'western' system is far better - because it works - and because over time it solves the problem.  There are do-gooders in the West too - they 'save' dogs about the be destroyed and provide them a home/farm - they take them there after they are neutered at their expense. If they do what some did, and release them, they are banned from taking dogs about to be destroyed. 

There is another solution - South Korea resolved it a long time ago. 

Your very silly response only shows the limitations of your comprehension abilities - There has been no stray dog cull in Australia - in fact the local dog people there say exactly the some as be - you have to address the cuases not th symptoms. Once you achieved of 70 yo 80 5 CNVR  and control the food supply (garbage the population self-dwindles.

My "solutions"  (of course it isn't MINE, it's the agreed solution of those who deal with this problem all over the world) have been shown to work all over the world - except inthe tiny, blinkered minds of some fools 

[SnapDragon]

48 minutes ago, cowslip said:

THere was no cull of dogs in England after WW2 - the "cull" as it were, took place before the war as the authorities ere worried that pets would be a drian on food and resources - it actually tuned into a farce as people didn't want to kill their pets.

Can only speak about what I know from my memory. There were packs of dogs everywhere after WW11, in the East End and Sth Essex.

I can recall mother warning us not to stray too far.

[cowslip]

1 hour ago, SnapDragon said:

Can only speak about what I know from my memory. There were packs of dogs everywhere after WW11, in the East End and Sth Essex.

I can recall mother warning us not to stray too far.

...and there was no cull.

[cowslip]

After World War II, London had a significant issue with stray dogs due to the disruptions caused by the war. To address this problem, the government and local authorities implemented several measures:

Stricter licensing and registration requirements were enforced to ensure that all dogs were accounted for and owned responsibly.

Public education campaigns were launched to encourage responsible pet ownership and to inform the public about the importance of licensing their dogs.

Great efforts were made to capture and control stray dogs roaming the streets. This involved collaboration between local authorities and animal control services.

First and foremost stray dogs were captured and those deemed suitable were often placed in shelters or rehomed with new owners.

As a Last Resort some stray dogs that weren’t claimed or were deemed unsuitable for adoption were euthanized, this was seen as a last resort….and still continues today.

These measures were aimed at not just managing the stray dog population but also ensuring public health and safety in post-war London. For instance extra care was taken to make sure garbage didn’t become a readyNo cull took place – at the end of the day any possible dog population anywhere is limited by the food supply.

 

 

[cowslip]

Soi Dog Foundation learned a lot from the experiences of Battersea Dogs home who played a significant role in dealing with the dog problem in London after World War II. From 1860, they had a history of rescuing and rehoming stray and abandoned animals, especially dogs. After WW II, Battersea Dogs & Cats Home continued their mission  to provide shelter, care, and rehoming services for the increasing number of stray dogs in London. They  worked closely with local authorities and animal welfare organizations to capture, care for, and find new homes for stray dogs. Remeber many people had euthanised their pets before the war. Our dog was a ressue dog - and since then all our pets were rescure in some form or another.BGH played a crucial role in managing the stray dog population and alleviating the burden on the streets of London.

to this day Battersea remains one of the UK's leading animal rescue centres, continuing to rescue, reunite, rehabilitate, and rehome dogs and cats in need. 

Since the 1950s all our pets were vaccinated and neutered

 

[SnapDragon]

13 hours ago, cowslip said:

...and there was no cull.

I don't don't know whether there was a cull or not. I didn't say there was. I can recall the pack problem (just about) 10 years after WW11 ended. 

Dogs breed when they get together, There were plenty of doggies homeless in the late 1940s, and the early 50s. If I can recall there was a dog home at Custom House. One on Rainham Marshes too. And of course there was the famed one at Battersea; the other side of town.

[cowslip]

5 hours ago, SnapDragon said:

I don't don't know whether there was a cull or not. I didn't say there was. I can recall the pack problem (just about) 10 years after WW11 ended. 

Dogs breed when they get together, There were plenty of doggies homeless in the late 1940s, and the early 50s. If I can recall there was a dog home at Custom House. One on Rainham Marshes too. And of course there was the famed one at Battersea; the other side of town.

The point is that culls don't work as some would think..... and as an example there was no cull in UK..

 

Netherlands became the first country in the world with ZERO stray dogs on the street.... there was no cull involved... a series of government legislations and of course CNVR.

[AussieBob]

22 hours ago, cowslip said:

Your very silly response only shows the limitations of your comprehension abilities - There has been no stray dog cull in Australia - in fact the local dog people there say exactly the some as be - you have to address the cuases not th symptoms. Once you achieved of 70 yo 80 5 CNVR  and control the food supply (garbage the population self-dwindles.

My "solutions"  (of course it isn't MINE, it's the agreed solution of those who deal with this problem all over the world) have been shown to work all over the world - except inthe tiny, blinkered minds of some fools 

You are a pedantic idiot and only a seriously stupid person would make such BS statements in the face of reality. As proven by myself and others there WAS culls in the West - when the dogs became too dangerous and had to be dealt with. Saying the solution in place now in the West is what Thailand should do now is asinine and utter nonsense.