News Forum - Thailand to tax residents’ foreign income irrespective of remittance

[AussieBob]

  On 1/19/2025 at 7:41 AM, oldcpu said:

Given expats to Thailand come from many different countries and have many different income sources, and have many different financial situations (as to where their money is located and as to how its invested or not invested), I suspect the tax situation for each is different.

I was curious so i did my own research (especially to confirm statements of others).  I noted in the Thai tax code section (article(?)) 42 which in essence provides a list of income that is NOT TO BE INCLUDED in the Thai tax calculation.  My assumption (possibly incorrect) is if it is not to be included an Thai tax calculation, that makes the income not assessable and hence not to be included in an annual Thai income tax return.

In that same tax code article-42 list, was item-17, which noted income covered by Ministerial Regulations as tax exempt was not to be included in a tax calculation.

That has me thinking (and I could be incorrect) that such ministerial document under item-17 could include:

• remitted to Thaliand income not assessable per Paw.161/162 ministerial directions (ie income/savings from before 1-Jan-2024 are not assessable/taxable by Thailand when brought into Thailand), and
• per Royal Decree 743 any income remitted to Thailand by LTR-WP, LTR-WGC, and LTR-WFTP visa holders are not assessable taxable, and
• any remitted income specifically noted in a Double Tax Agreement with another country (DTA) if stated as not taxable by Thailand, then it would be not assessable.

In my case I obtain pension incomes from Canada where the Canada-Thai DTA notes Canada (only) can exclusively tax such income -and I pay income tax to Canada on that. Such income is not taxable by Thailand per that DTA.

I also receive a pension from Germany, where the German-Thai DTA  notes Thailand (only)  can exclusively tax such income (if one is a Thailand tax resident). So I have been careful not to remit that money to Thailand.

Further as part of my tax management considerations, I applied for and obtained the LTR-WP (wealthy pensioner) Visa, which purportedly means foreign money remitted to Thailand is not taxable.

Still, to be ultra cautious , noting future tax changes possible, while I was a non-resident to Thailand not too long ago (a few years), i brought sufficient money into Thailand to maintain my standard of living for a bit more than a few years.  I also, when Paw-161/162 came out, before 1-Jan-2024, brought some more money into Thailand from abroad.  

I then brought no money into Thailand in 2024. 

In the mean time, my Thai wife, spooked by some of the tax chat (and myself also, to a lessor extent) applied on-line for a Thai tax-ID for me mid last year (2024). That went to Bangkok RD, who forwarded it to the provincial RD office where I live.  An official from the provincial RD office phoned our place (where my wife answered the phone) and asked why I wanted a Thai tax-ID? 

When the RD official was told I bring no money into Thailand (in 2024 tax year) and that I have no Thai income, that despite my qualifying as a Thai tax resident (as I spend ~300 days/year in Thailand), I did not qualify for a Thai tax ID and he would not provide one.

My wife noted I have a Thai Pink-ID and could that not be my tax ID?  The official noted yes it could be if activated by the RD (but he saw no point to activate).

My wife noted I had an LTR-WP visa, and the official noted he never heard of such.

So given all that - I plan to wait a few years, bring no more money into Thailand, and watch and see how this all pans-out.

My guess is it could simply be a lot of speculation/worry for nothing by many expats.  Although I also believe all expats should consider in detail the specifics of their own finances. 

But who knows?  As the saying goes:  This is Thailand.

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Good overview of what is essentially a mad woman's breakfast. Totally disorganised and all over the place - and like so many other things here, it is foolish to follow the letter of the law, it is best to do as others do. 

You are right in those monies that are not taxable in Thailand, and do not listen to those idiots who say the DTA is just a method of claiming back taxes already paid in the other country.  That is total garbage - the DTAs also specify those incomes/monies that are not taxable in Thailand - it is not only a document to allow credit of taxes already paid - that is a minor part of the Agreements.  Plus - there are a lot of DTAs and they are all different, and no Officer in any Provincial Tax Office is going to (or want to) know how each one works and what is exempted and what is not.

The 'general rule' is that if you are earning money in Thailand (working, selling, renting, etc.), or you are earning money overseas from working in Thailand (Youtubers etc.), then you are liable to pay income taxes.  When/if Thailand moves to a global based taxation system, then things may change (maybe) but until then if it is not in that list of taxable income as defined by the TRD, then it is not taxable income.

What I have been doing and will continue to do going forward, is to follow my own advice above. And I will continue to document all the monies I bring to Thailand, and what their source is (just in case ever asked). I am bringing into Thailand my Pension money (IMO not taxable) and my Super Savings (IMO also not taxable because it was all accrued before Jan 1 2024).   Any large amounts that I will bring into the country (as done last year), will be transferred direct to my Thai wife's bank account - as a tax free gift - that is not taxable up to 20 million baht per year. Obviously by 'large' I do not mean 10-20 million baht - 500K or so time.   

Meanwhile, I will watch closely and see how things go - especially with the 'global taxation system' that Thailand is trying to implement. It is end January 2025 and they still have not published the guidelines on how to complete the income tax returns for 2024 - which are required to be done before end March 2025.  I aint holding my breath - IMO they will completely screw it up - not saying why - just a feeling I have.   

[23RD]

  On 1/19/2025 at 8:29 AM, AussieBob said:

Meanwhile, I will watch closely and see how things go

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It's sort of like the Airport arrival and departure tax Bob it gets lots of talk but no action. 

In my first month of retirement in Pattaya nearly 13 years ago the authorities were having a  purge on Folk riding motorcycles the wrong way up one way Soi's and low and behold they're still doing it. 

[Pinetree]

  On 1/19/2025 at 8:13 AM, AussieBob said:

Clearly you care zero about others - only yourself.  Most accurate thing you have ever said  

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I care about my family and my friends.  Why should I give a toss about anyone I don't know, or who inhabits forums?  Or are you one of these 'spread love and joy to all' weirdos, full of  love for your neighbor and your fellow man BS? 

[AussieBob]

  On 1/19/2025 at 8:29 AM, 23RD said:

I've just been sent a YouTube video from another Expat and I won't bother reposting it on this Forum of some YouTuber in Pattaya walking along with his phone giving Tax advice to Expats. 

Only out of sheer curiosity I watched 4 minutes 12 seconds of it and came to the conclusion. 

1. The particular Muppet never done a day's work in his life. 

2. Instead of him giving out advice he needed advice on his personal hygiene. 

The Internet is good for some things but not Thailand Tax advice. 

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Yes indeed - most of the advice on Youtube is sheer khrapp. If he is here 180+ days and does that a lot, I hope one day TRD hits him with a question about his tax returns. 

I worked with Government agencies for over 30 years and know a bit about Taxation Laws and how the bureaucracies work (and dont work).  Nothing annoys me more than some numpty telling people what this rule or that clause means in the TRD documents and DTAs. I have a fair chance of getting it right, but even then I am still very guarded and reserved, because who knows in Somchai in the local provincial TRD will agree (and that is what counts in this country - not the 'rules').  

[AussieBob]

  On 1/19/2025 at 9:34 AM, Pinetree said:

I care about my family and my friends.  Why should I give a toss about anyone I don't know, or who inhabits forums?  Or are you one of these 'spread love and joy to all' weirdos, full of  love for your neighbor and your fellow man BS? 

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Glad to hear that - which is not what you said. I guess you meant you dont a toss what strangers do. Fair enough on that one - although I will say there are some people I dont really know, but I 'talk' to them on forums and do care. A little bit for some, a lot for a few, and none for some. 

[Skip]

  On 1/19/2025 at 9:34 AM, Pinetree said:

I care about my family and my friends.  Why should I give a toss about anyone I don't know, or who inhabits forums?  Or are you one of these 'spread love and joy to all' weirdos, full of  love for your neighbor and your fellow man BS? 

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Exactly... you are a miserable scrooge to say the least!

[Pinetree]

  On 1/19/2025 at 9:48 PM, Skip said:

Exactly... you are a miserable scrooge to say the least!

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Not miserable at all, it's just that I don't care, or bother, about those individuals that I don't know, or that don't deserve any consideration from me, you being one of those. 

[Skip]

  On 1/20/2025 at 11:27 AM, Pinetree said:

Not miserable at all, it's just that I don't care, or bother, about those individuals that I don't know, or that don't deserve any consideration from me, you being one of those. 

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Thank god...

[AussieBob]

TRD has published the Thai language Annual Return forms.  No English translation provided.

No 'how to lodge' document has been published yet - in Thai or English.

ปี 2568 | กรมสรรพากร - The Revenue Department (rd.go.th)

https://www.rd.go.th/67335.html

(not provided for Pinetree)

[AussieBob]

At a meeting for the Pattaya Expats Club, a presentation and Q&A was provided by 2 'tax experts' and this has caused a lot of concern on another forum.  The majority of people think they were both trying to drum up business. As pointed out by many people - they are not Thai TRD Employees or Officials, so they are only giving their opinions.  It seems the majority of Expats are going to wait and see what happens after those brave or stupid enough to listen to the 'experts', go and get a TIN and lodge a tax return.  Me Too.

Pattaya expats receive updates on overseas remittances and income tax - Pattaya Mail

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/news/pattaya-expats-receive-updates-on-overseas-remittances-and-income-tax-487289

[AussieBob]

I have been following this issue for a long time - and those who may know my name on another Forum will know I was very active since October 2023. In fact it was mainly me that got Mike Lister suspended and then banned (or he resigned - not sure which).  Either way, he was the main Member giving people giving taxation advice - including writing a massive 20 page tax advice guide - and IMO most of it was wrong (and we argued a lot). At one point he was made an Admin and he suspended anyone arguing with him. The Forum owner finally realised the legal ramifications of what Lister was doing, and Lister was gone baby gone in July 2024.  

I came across a dual Thailand and USA Citizen who owns a legal firm with integrity on Youtube the other day.  He has recently said it plain and simple in one of his videos. All of the Non-Thai 'tax experts' giving 'tax advice' are doing so in breach of the law.  He stated emphatically that the 'experts' and others in Forums saying all Expats who bring money into Thailand must get a TIN and lodge a tax return, are stirring up the pot for their own benefit and are just scammers.  He is a USA and Thai qualified/certified Lawyer and he has stated that nothing has changed and that for the vast majority of Expats nothing has changed regarding income taxes in Thailand.

TRD have still not provided any 'how to' guides for lodging a tax return in 2025 for the year 2024 in Thai or  English.  They have only provided a Thai version of the tax lodgement document for the 2024 tax year, but there are no explanations or guides yet. My read is that they are seriously struggling to 'explain' the rule change regarding those Thais who previously could bring their earnings from investments etc. into Thailand tax free, if they did it in the next financial year from when it was earned. 

[rattlesnake]

  On 1/24/2025 at 8:33 AM, AussieBob said:

I have been following this issue for a long time - and those who may know my name on another Forum will know I was very active since October 2023. In fact it was mainly me that got Mike Lister suspended and then banned (or he resigned - not sure which).  Either way, he was the main Member giving people giving taxation advice - including writing a massive 20 page tax advice guide - and IMO most of it was wrong (and we argued a lot). At one point he was made an Admin and he suspended anyone arguing with him. The Forum owner finally realised the legal ramifications of what Lister was doing, and Lister was gone baby gone in July 2024.  

I came across a dual Thailand and USA Citizen who owns a legal firm with integrity on Youtube the other day.  He has recently said it plain and simple in one of his videos. All of the Non-Thai 'tax experts' giving 'tax advice' are doing so in breach of the law.  He stated emphatically that the 'experts' and others in Forums saying all Expats who bring money into Thailand must get a TIN and lodge a tax return, are stirring up the pot for their own benefit and are just scammers.  He is a USA and Thai qualified/certified Lawyer and he has stated that nothing has changed and that for the vast majority of Expats nothing has changed regarding income taxes in Thailand.

TRD have still not provided any 'how to' guides for lodging a tax return in 2025 for the year 2024 in Thai or  English.  They have only provided a Thai version of the tax lodgement document for the 2024 tax year, but there are no explanations or guides yet. My read is that they are seriously struggling to 'explain' the rule change regarding those Thais who previously could bring their earnings from investments etc. into Thailand tax free, if they did it in the next financial year from when it was earned. 

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Well said.

And ultimately, as the Thai authorities are not completely dumb, they most probably realise this is damaging the country's image abroad and will not be raking in any money, quite the contrary… so IMO it is very likely that they will just drop the whole thing.

[AussieBob]

  On 1/24/2025 at 8:50 AM, rattlesnake said:

Well said.

And ultimately, as the Thai authorities are not completely dumb, they most probably realise this is damaging the country's image abroad and will not be raking in any money, quite the contrary… so IMO it is very likely that they will just drop the whole thing.

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That is exactly how the Thais do things when they dont workout the way they wanted them to do.  They 'save face' and just keep quiet and 'walk away'.  Years ago when they re-introduced enforcement of the rule that said all Foreigners must report if they leave their homes for more than 24 hours, the backlash was horrendous.  They quietly stopped enforcement - but they never formally announced that they were stopping enforcement, or that they made a mistake, or any other explanation - and they did not change the rule.  Just like there is a rule that states that all Foreigners leaving Thailand must provide evidence of having lodged a tax return and received a 'tax clearance' from TRD when exiting through Immigration at the airport - that rule is still there on the books - but it is never enforced.

[AussieBob]

TRD has finally published (26th March) the Tax Documents for lodgement in 2025 for the 2024 financial year, including the English versions. Yep - if anyone has to pay tax for 2024 year, they have officially have until 31 March to lodge and pay the tax due. However, that has extended to 8th April for those who do an online filing. Yep unbelievable - 5 days to study the documents and lodge tax return.  My quick read has not made me change my mind on my previous position - my actions will be the same and my planning will remain the same.    However, anyone with worries about it all should contact a honest tax lawyer/accountant - and remember that only a Thai can be a qualified tax lawyer/accountant and some foreigners claiming to be one are in fact not Thai.

https://www.rd.go.th/english/67692.html

Year 2024 | The Revenue Department (English Site)

[Pinetree]

  On 3/28/2025 at 11:51 AM, AussieBob said:

TRD has finally published (26th March) the Tax Documents for lodgement in 2025 for the 2024 financial year, including the English versions. Yep - if anyone has to pay tax for 2024 year, they have officially have until 31 March to lodge and pay the tax due. However, that has extended to 8th April for those who do an online filing. Yep unbelievable - 5 days to study the documents and lodge tax return.  My quick read has not made me change my mind on my previous position - my actions will be the same and my planning will remain the same.    However, anyone with worries about it all should contact a honest tax lawyer/accountant - and remember that only a Thai can be a qualified tax lawyer/accountant and some foreigners claiming to be one are in fact not Thai.

https://www.rd.go.th/english/67692.html

Year 2024 | The Revenue Department (English Site)

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I will be doing nothing unless and until Immigration change the requirements for the granting of  Extensions. 

[AussieBob]

  On 3/28/2025 at 11:57 AM, Pinetree said:

I will be doing nothing unless and until Immigration change the requirements for the granting of  Extensions. 

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I like that approach, and the inherent logic and sense of practicality behind it - and that is even without taking into account the vast majority of DTAs which mean Thailand cannot apply taxes to most money being brought into Thailand (especially if it has already been subject to tax).

Meanwhile. Malaysia has extended their foreign source income tax exemptions for a further 10 years. Basically that means anyone who resides in Malaysia long term and qualifies as a tax resident will not have any money they bring into Malaysia subject to income taxes - as long as that money has previously been subjected to the tax requirements of the source country. That is inherently fair and reasonable and takes account of the realities of different taxation rules and periods in many countries, and accounts for their expensive but generous Expat Retirement Visas.  The Thailand ignorance and stupidity in what they are doing is beyond analysis.

[Pinetree]

  On 3/30/2025 at 11:05 AM, AussieBob said:

and that is even without taking into account the vast majority of DTAs which mean Thailand cannot apply taxes to most money being brought into Thailand (especially if it has already been subject to tax).

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While that is certainly true for many DTA agreements, it is not so true for the UK/Thailand DTA, which is a Masterpiece of mealy mouthed, diplomatic speak  bull Sxxt. It effectively gives little to no protection for UK citizens living here, so beware anyone who believes that the DTA is solid.  Read this carefully. It says, in clear terms, that the onus is clearly on the individual to prove to the Thais that the DTA applies to you. There is no presumption here. 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/thailand-tax-treaties

[AussieBob]

  On 3/30/2025 at 12:01 PM, Pinetree said:

While that is certainly true for many DTA agreements, it is not so true for the UK/Thailand DTA, which is a Masterpiece of mealy mouthed, diplomatic speak  bull Sxxt. It effectively gives little to no protection for UK citizens living here, so beware anyone who believes that the DTA is solid.  Read this carefully. It says, in clear terms, that the onus is clearly on the individual to prove to the Thais that the DTA applies to you. There is no presumption here. 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/thailand-tax-treaties

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I hear you mate - and although I dont disagree, I will say a few things.

The DTA was created/made for business related tax issues - both the organisations and the individuals who work for that organisation. At the time of creation Thailand did not apply any Personal income taxes to people on money that they brought into Thailand from overseas. The intent of the document and clauses was not meant to cover for personal tax issues as such - and certainly not an Expat receiving a Government Pension or other similar Government payments. 

There is no way that the UK, or any other Government, would be happy to pay their tax payer's money to Thailand as a tax on the Pensions and other payments they make - that is definitely not the intent of the DTAs - it was not covered in the DTA setup. 

Advice that a Govt Pension being 'taxable' is just opinion - it has not be formally stated to by the Thai Taxation Court/Tribunal, nor agreed to by any other DTA country.  Interpretation is being stated everywhere as fact - it is not a fact until verified officially by TRD and/or a Thai Court - and neither of them have stated that another Government's pension payment to a person in Thailand is a taxable payment.

It is a total cluster**** that has been extremely poorly and incompetently managed. It was all full blaze on Expats under the previous PM, but as soon as Thaksin became PM the matter went very quiet and TRD made no further statements.  I take that as they are thinking about it again and will probably change/clarify things in the future.

The ONLY thing clear and a fact, is that money made overseas by a Thai tax resident after 1 January 2024, is no longer exempt from income taxes if it is brought into Thailand after 12 months and not in the same year it was earned. That is it - everything else is speculation and opinion. That speculation includes that Thailand will be moving to a global based income tax system, such that any money earned overseas is taxable in the year it is made, irrespective of whether it is brought into Thailand or not - but I do think that will eventually happen in the years ahead.  

[Pinetree]

  10 hours ago, AussieBob said:

I hear you mate - and although I dont disagree, I will say a few things.

The DTA was created/made for business related tax issues - both the organisations and the individuals who work for that organisation. At the time of creation Thailand did not apply any Personal income taxes to people on money that they brought into Thailand from overseas. The intent of the document and clauses was not meant to cover for personal tax issues as such - and certainly not an Expat receiving a Government Pension or other similar Government payments. 

There is no way that the UK, or any other Government, would be happy to pay their tax payer's money to Thailand as a tax on the Pensions and other payments they make - that is definitely not the intent of the DTAs - it was not covered in the DTA setup. 

Advice that a Govt Pension being 'taxable' is just opinion - it has not be formally stated to by the Thai Taxation Court/Tribunal, nor agreed to by any other DTA country.  Interpretation is being stated everywhere as fact - it is not a fact until verified officially by TRD and/or a Thai Court - and neither of them have stated that another Government's pension payment to a person in Thailand is a taxable payment.

It is a total cluster**** that has been extremely poorly and incompetently managed. It was all full blaze on Expats under the previous PM, but as soon as Thaksin became PM the matter went very quiet and TRD made no further statements.  I take that as they are thinking about it again and will probably change/clarify things in the future.

The ONLY thing clear and a fact, is that money made overseas by a Thai tax resident after 1 January 2024, is no longer exempt from income taxes if it is brought into Thailand after 12 months and not in the same year it was earned. That is it - everything else is speculation and opinion. That speculation includes that Thailand will be moving to a global based income tax system, such that any money earned overseas is taxable in the year it is made, irrespective of whether it is brought into Thailand or not - but I do think that will eventually happen in the years ahead.  

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Yes, World Government's ganging together and screwing the common man.  Especially if you are old and a pensioner and have outlived your usefulness in their eyes.  It seems to be their only function. It wouldn't be so bad if Government's, World Wide didn't then go and waste trillions of tax Dollars on garbage. 

[AussieBob]

  9 hours ago, Pinetree said:

Yes, World Government's ganging together and screwing the common man.  Especially if you are old and a pensioner and have outlived your usefulness in their eyes.  It seems to be their only function. It wouldn't be so bad if Government's, World Wide didn't then go and waste trillions of tax Dollars on garbage. 

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I was involved in a lot of 'government stuff' and they dont really gang together. They are just incompetent and ignorant and lazy, and they often play 'follow the leader'. When your 'performance measurements' have nothing to do with efficiency or successful performance of tasks, then you are a public servant.  Covid was a classic example of the incompetent blind idiots, following the incompetent blind idiots, following the incompetent blind idiots.