A veteran Nazi concentration camp guard will stand trial at the age of 100.

[Andrew Reeve]

 

Public prosecutors in Germany have announced that a 100-year-old former concentration camp guard will stand trial in October on charges of complicity in 3,518 murders.

Despite his elderly age, the prosecutor's office in Neuruppin got a medical assessment that verified the man was "fit to face trial" when the allegations were first filed in February. Prosecutors say hearings will be restricted to two and a half hours every day.

Between 1942 and 1945, the defendant is accused of “knowingly and willingly” helping in the murder of detainees at the Sachsenhausen concentration camp in Oranienburg, north of Berlin. He is charged with participating in the "killing by firing squad of Soviet prisoners of war in 1942" as well as the "murder of captives with the toxic chemical Zyklon B."

 

According to local media, the defendant, who has not been named due to German privacy rules, lives in the Brandenburg state west of Berlin. “Several of the co-complainants are just as old as the accused and expect justice to be done,” Thomas Walther, a lawyer representing a number of the victims in the case, told the German newspaper Welt am Sonntag.

 

Sachsenhausen was the first new camp created after Adolf Hitler granted the SS exclusive leadership of the Nazi concentration camp system in 1936. It was designed to serve as a model facility and training camp for the Nazi network that spanned Germany, Austria, and conquered countries.

Between 1936 and 1945, about 200,000 individuals were detained there. Thousands of detainees died there through malnutrition, disease, forced labor, and other causes, as well as medical experiments and SS murder operations such as shooting, hanging, and gassing.

 

Since John Demjanjuk's conviction in 2011, on the assumption that camp guards were part of the Nazi death machine, Germany has been on the lookout for former Nazi officials.

Since then, other guilty convictions have been handed down on those grounds rather than for murders or atrocities directly tied to the accused.

Source: The Guardian

 

 

 

 

[King Cotton]

Hi, @Andrew Reeve. I hope this sobering report doesn't reflect your fears that Prayuth's Thailand may be headed this way, especially in view of what's currently happening 'next door'.

[Andrew Reeve]

Hi @King Cotton, Just shows at any age you can be judged for past crimes. I will update the story later in the year.

Quote

defendant is accused of “knowingly and willingly” helping in the murder of detainees at the Sachsenhausen concentration camp in Oranienburg

 

[bushav8r]

8 hours ago, Andrew Reeve said:

Hi @King Cotton, Just shows at any age you can be judged for past crimes. I will update the story later in the year.

It is nice to know that the "statute of limitations" doesn't apply in all cases.  I think many people have been able to avoid prosecution after a certain amount of time has lapsed.

[gummy]

12 minutes ago, bushav8r said:

It is nice to know that the "statute of limitations" doesn't apply in all cases.  I think many people have been able to avoid prosecution after a certain amount of time has lapsed.

Well if it applied here, and we had a real democratic government voted for by the people whose  interests are the people and the nation, rather than themselves or their supporters, perhaps things (the laws and constitution) could be changed so that coup makers and others can not absolve themselves of crimes against the state if committed.

[bushav8r]

6 minutes ago, gummy said:

Well if it applied here, and we had a real democratic government voted for by the people whose  interests are the people and the nation, rather than themselves or their supporters, perhaps things (the laws and constitution) could be changed so that coup makers and others can not absolve themselves of crimes against the state if committed.

The first step after a successful coup would be for the coup leader to issue an interim constitution granting himself amnesty and sweeping power.  The constitution that is in place before the coup is simply discarded.  I don't think there is anyway around this.  

[thai3]

So why has it taken them so long to arrest and charge him?

[JackIsAGoodBoy]

So laughable this one. After the war the new West Germany police and justice system were full of ex-nazis and they retired in the 60's and 70's comfortable. The real upper and middle management of Nazis. Even the German TV did reports about this in the 60's. Now they are going after instead the lowest in the command chain still alive.

Edited August 4, 2021 by JackIsAGoodBoy

[kerryd]

The "winners" always make the rules and (almost) always exempt themselves from those same rules.
Imagine what the headlines would be like now I'd we'd lost the war (WW2 that is). 

 

[poohy]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-58077039

You cant beat a tank in your living room

[kerryd]

21 minutes ago, thai3 said:

So why has it taken them so long to arrest and charge him?

Because initially they were only going after senior members of the Nazi party and SS officers and the like. The ones who gave the orders.

When they ran out of those people, Germany decided to retroactively "widen" the scope of who could be held responsible for the atrocities so the could go after low ranking privates, tradesmen and secretaries.

Like the 94 year old woman arrested last week who was a teenager working as a secretary in a camp. She's been charged with 10,000 counts of being an accessory.

Last year they arrested and charged a man who was (barely 17) for serving as a guard at a camp during the last few months of the war. He's been charged with over 5,200 counts of being an accessory, one for every person they think may have died at that camp while he was a guard.

(Those 2 were charged in "juvenile" court and given lighter sentences.)

The Germans (and some others) are apparently worried about a surge in the "far right" that has been happening in recent years and want to get rid of the last traces of anyone who may have had anything to do with a concentration camp, regardless of age at the time or role.

The reasoning they use for the charges is that those teenagers (and others) "should have known" what was going on and refused to participate.

When your choice is "do as your told or be shot", it's hardly a choice, especially for someone in their teens.

I met a guy who had been almost 14 when the war ended. In the last weeks of the war, he was given a uniform and an old bolt action rifle and put under the charge of an old WW1 vet. The boy and a few other children were ordered to defend the road and stop the Russian advance.
(While all the able bodied men retreated.)

Apparently they all dropped their weapons and ran the other way. He claims he was captured by the Canadians and released after the war. He credits them with saving his life because they knew what would happen if the Russians had captured them.

At the end of the war, the Canadians were in the far north of Germany, north and east of Hamburg.) They actually held up the Russians and prevented them from invading Denmark.
(Which apparently was their plan but the Russian commander made a tactical error. He knew he was facing a lightly armed Parachute Regiment while he headed an Armoured Division. He had his artillery dug in and his tanks and infantry ready to advance.
But he thought there was no way the Canadians would try to stop him unless they had a lot of air power and armour ready to back them up so instead of attacking he called a halt.
The resulting pause allowed the "big wigs" to make sure the agreed upon border was defended to prevent the Russians from trying to steam roll through. Once that was done the Canadians retreated to "their side" of the border. Their actions are credited with saving 10s of thousands of lives that would have been lost if the Russians had of been able to take over that area before the civilians could flee.
That was actually the last military action the Canadians saw during WW2 as well. At least in Europe.)
 

[9S_]

What about that English prince who fled to the US. He dressed up a Nazi does he count?

[Ubon2530]

1 hour ago, 9S_ said:

What about that English prince who fled to the US. He dressed up a Nazi does he count?

Poor ginger kid... he'll always be remembered for this stupid thing & marrying another stupid thing.

[poohy]

2 hours ago, JackIsAGoodBoy said:

So laughable this one. After the war the new West Germany police and justice system were full of ex-nazis and they retired in the 60's and 70's comfortable. The real upper and middle management of Nazis. Even the German TV did reports about this in the 60's. Now they are going after instead the lowest in the command chain still alive.

To me its completely pointless(others may have opposing views i understand) but surely time has moved on

I suppose in all honesty Its being seen to be doing something rather than the act itself

[palooka]

Oh the righteous world we live in today. 100 year olds on trial for crimes 86+ years ago.

What's he going to get 20 years hard labour. Probably can get a conviction and that is all that matters.

Move on world.

 

[gummy]

7 hours ago, palooka said:

Oh the righteous world we live in today. 100 year olds on trial for crimes 86+ years ago.

What's he going to get 20 years hard labour. Probably can get a conviction and that is all that matters.

Move on world.

Meanwhile, assuming the charges are proven, the citizens of the country against whom he committed these appalling offences are themselves guilty of  similar offences against Palestinian children based on news reports previously. What a shame that many nations never learn by their own history what is right and what is wrong.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-58010712

[MTa449]

You can run but you can't hide, but justice delayed is justice denied. The man lived at least eighty years before being caught because he had to be at least 17to 20 yrs old when he was a Nazi guard at the concentration camp. So pretty much he got away with mass murderer/ accomplis his entire adult life. I don't think that's justice... A century year old Nazi is laughing at the upcoming trial and welcoming death at this point. However better late than never and his horrific legacy will haunt his family for the rest of their lives. If there's any justice it's in that ! As for the victims and families I can only hope it brings some closure to decades of suffering but it will never be enough justice ! As we African Americans, Native Americans continue to seek justice for the atrocities pressed upon us the Jewish people as well as we and many other minorities can only hope for complete justice and reparations for these atrocities !

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gummy]

11 hours ago, MTa449 said:

You can run but you can't hide, but justice delayed is justice denied. The man lived at least eighty years before being caught because he had to be at least 17to 20 yrs old when he was a Nazi guard at the concentration camp. So pretty much he got away with mass murderer/ accomplis his entire adult life. I don't think that's justice... A century year old Nazi is laughing at the upcoming trial and welcoming death at this point. However better late than never and his horrific legacy will haunt his family for the rest of their lives. If there's any justice it's in that ! As for the victims and families I can only hope it brings some closure to decades of suffering but it will never be enough justice ! As we African Americans, Native Americans continue to seek justice for the atrocities pressed upon us the Jewish people as well as we and many other minorities can only hope for complete justice and reparations for these atrocities !

So by your definition then the British could have a claim against Italy for the atrocities wrought on the British people during the Roman invasion ? How far do you think we should go back in history for this argument ?

[Smithydog]

1 hour ago, gummy said:

So by your definition then the British could have a claim against Italy for the atrocities wrought on the British people during the Roman invasion ? How far do you think we should go back in history for this argument ?

Perhaps Adam could sue Eve for taking possession of one of his ribs

[billywillyjones]

I guess a burning question is where are all the convictions for the tens of millions ruthlessly tortured and murdered by Stalin.  Seems those atrocities are being swept under the carpet.  

Edited August 8, 2021 by billywillyjones

[gummy]

2 hours ago, billywillyjones said:

I guess a burning question is where are all the convictions for the tens of millions ruthlessly tortured and murdered by Stalin.  Seems those atrocities are being swept under the carpet.  

Or even more recently the illegal invasion of Iraq and subsequent deaths 

[Poolie]

19 minutes ago, Transam said:

Think he passed on a long time ago, but communist China did similar, we now have made that place rich......

'Communist China.......'

I guess capitalist China doesn't sound right does it? Despite that being what it is.

[Dedinbed]

On 8/4/2021 at 2:39 AM, poohy said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-58077039

You cant beat a tank in your living room

Yes I see the courts have finally made a judgement on this after the tank was seized in 2015 .. personally I think the guy has got a rough deal over it as he actually bought the thing from Britain in the early 70's .. it was one of 9 that were part finished when hostilities ceased and the factory fell under the control of the British who summoned some of the work force to finish building them after which they were shipped to G B for evaluation .. when the M O D had finished with them some were used for target practice and a few ended up in scrapyards after being sold by the M O D .. the Heinkendorf Panther is one of those sold for scrap and was shipped back to Germany in full view through Holland .. part of the overhaul and restoration was carried out by the Bundeswehr vehicle workshop's entrusted with looking after historic tanks in German museums .. following the restoration it was a fairly common site in Heinkendorf with the owner having documentation from the local authorities that the main gun was incapable of firing and all machine guns had been removed .. The A A gun is another thing as its origins remain a mystery but if he acquired it in Germany then the German Government will have a claim on it .. 

The Panther being made ready for transporting to Germany .. 

Edited August 8, 2021 by Dedinbed
Sp

[billybob]

No world of compromises - death camp Nazis I would kill them all the same. 

[billywillyjones]

20 hours ago, Transam said:

Think he passed on a long time ago, but communist China did similar, we now have made that place rich......

Not Stalin but those who worked with and for him and were active putting people in the gulags right through the 50's and 60's.