Certificate of residency?

[Dezmo]

I want to buy a motorcycle and notice I need a Certificate of residency.   I will have updated my TM30 soon.  I have a Non O with ME Visa that expires in Jan 2025 (and might not be able to renew it).  Currently in Nonthaburi but probably moving to Hua Hin in October or so...

A few questions. 

- I read that I might need to have completed a 90 day check-in to get the certificate.   But a Royal Thai police form doesn't indicate that.    I have not yet completed 90 days on any of my visits and plan to be back in September for maybe 80 days.  If needed, how early can I do a check-in and how do I provide proof since i hear it is now online?

- Is there an expiration date on the certificate and if so does it reflect the TM30 or as I read it might be 1 year from when I obtain it?

- Could I get 2 certificates at the same time as I want to get a Thai license later also. 

- Do I need a retirement visa later after owning the bike?  (E,g., insurance if i get stopped, etc.)?

- Anything I'm missing?

Thanks 

[BlueSphinx]

Just like Thai Immigration Offices, every provincial DTP might have different/additional requirements when applying there for a Driver's Permit.  So you might be confronted with some additional requirements than how it worked at my DTP in SiSaKet province. 

Noe that there is basically no difference between the driver permit application for a motorbike or one for a car, so best to apply for BOTH at same time. 

What you need is:

• Your passport.
• A valid foreign driver's permit, when it is in english language (so UK, US, Australian and South African citizens only need their country's driver's permit).  When your country's driver's permit is not in english, you need an International Driver's Permit.
• A health certificate - which can be acquired at any clinic for something like 50 to 150 THB in 10-15 minutes.
• Two pass-photo's.

And now to address your question > at most DTP's they also require a Residence Certificate, with your official address in the province where you are residing.

In order to got hold of a Non Imm O Visa or 1-year extension of such, you had to notify your local Immigration Office using a TM-30 of your official address.  So the fact that you have a Permit to stay based on that Non Imm O Visa or extension, already proves your official address in the province, and Immigration will provide you with the Residence Certificate on the spot (normally free of charge but at some Imm Offices they charge 100,- THB). 

Note: At my Imm Office - where they had my TM-30 on file when I applied for the 1-year extension of my Non Imm O Visa - they also required a request-statement from the local DTP to provide me with such Residence Certificate. So I had to go first to the DTP to get hold of that request statement, and then went to the local Imm Office (luckily only 3 km down the road) where they provided me with the Residence Certificate on the spot.  Then back to the DTP with that Residence Certificate and the documents mentioned higher, and I left the DTP approx 1 hour later with both Thai driver permits (one for a car and one for a motorbike), total cost 360,- THB.  During the application process at the DTP I also had to do a visibility/reaction test which took less than 5 minutes.  

Hope this helps...

[Dezmo]

Thanks... so no need to perform a 90-day check-in first....?

This form doesn't mentioned it either.

Public Handbook: The application for collecting a Certificate of Residence (TM.16)

As far as expiriation I read 1 year but most references are 30 days.

[BlueSphinx]

Hi @Dezmo

Navigating the Thai bureaucratic jungle is always full of surprises.  The first and most fundamental 'rule' you need to take into account is that:

EVERY individual Thai branche of a government institution, like the provincial Imm Office, the provincial DTP, local city hall, etc. , have the authority to interpret the overarching rules for the services they provide, and - within boundaries - can add, amend or ignore some of these overarching rules.  This is something we are not used to coming from a Western country, where the rules are supposed to be transparent and consistent in a government institution, for every local branche providing a service.  The consequence being that when applying for a 1-year extension of stay or a driver's permit or a blue/yellow housebook, etc., that the rules in office A are different than those in office B.  So, when asking for advice on how to deal with a certain issue, you should always mention the province where you would apply, as the process can - and most often WILL - differ.  

Note that this inconsistency is not only limited to Thai government institutions, but also in other Thai service organizations.  E.g. the rules for opening a Thai bank-account are different for each Thai Bank, and even within branches of the SAME bank.  

And on top of that, it will also depend WHO is serving you.  One officer might say 'Not possible' (the standard answer when the person serving you does not know or has never handled a similar request or has a 'bad hair day'), while another one might provide the service without blinking an eye. 

= = =

The above already explains why the advice/experience of helpful respondents to your query might turn out to be different where you will apply.  And hence after having informed yourself as well as possible (note that the websites of Thai organizations are also often not complete, incorrect nor up-to-date) it is best to hear it from the Horses mouth when enquering about the rules for the application you plan to do.  And also make a note of which officer provided you the information, as his colleague when you actually apply might impose his interpretation of the requirements that can differ from what the first officer told you. 

= = =

You wrote that you have a MultipleEntry Non Imm O Visa.  When you got hold of that Visa in your home-country or at a Thai embassy/consulate in a neighboring country, you would have to notify the local Immigration Office of the province where you are residing of the address where you are staying in their province.  That is done by issuing a TM-30 (with the accompanying documents required as proof of that notification of address).  

Without your official address notified to them, a Thai Imm Office will refuse to provide you with any service.  So after having issued such TM-30 as proof of your address for the Visa you acquired in your home-country or neighboring country, you now have an 'official address for Immigration purposes'.  And the Imm Office should now on your request provide you with a Residence Certificate stating that that is your official address (if your local DTP requires such Residence Certificate as a requirement to apply for a Driver's Permit). 

If you got hold of the Non Imm O Visa (or its 1-year extension) at your local Imm Office, you will have by definition have an official address in the province where that Imm Office is located, and it's a simple matter of asking them to provide you with a Residence Certificate, which should be delivered on the spot. 

Note that some Imm Offices, want you to first have done already a '90-day report' before they will provide you with a Residence Certificate.  Of course that's total nonsense, as you can only do such 90-day report when your official address is on file with them (the TM-30 which you notified them with). But it are THEIR rules, no matter how illogical or ridiculous...

= = =

A final comment: Note that the Certificate of Residence (to which you referred in your post) is something different than the Residence Certificate needed for the driver-permit application.  A Residence Certificate is nothing more than an official document issued by the Imm Office of the province where you are residing, that that is your 'official address for immigration purposes'.  While a Certificate of Residence is used for other purposes (and there are more requirements to be met in order for you to be eligible for one).  

Yep, amazing Thailand...

[Dezmo]

Thanks again.  Seems the terms Residence Certificate (which I need for a license and to buy a motorcycle) and Certificate of Residence are used interchangeable across the net, and even in some of the same articles.  I did post a link to 1...the TM16 but will double check.

[BlueSphinx]

26 minutes ago, Dezmo said:

Thanks again.  Seems the terms Residence Certificate (which I need for a license and to buy a motorcycle) and Certificate of Residence are used interchangeable across the net, and even in some of the same articles.  I did post a link to 1...the TM16 but will double check.

Hi,

I asked ChatGTP whether in Thailand there is a difference between a Residence Certificate and Certificate of Residence.  Here the answer that popped up:

Yes, in Thailand, there is a difference between a Residence Certificate and a Certificate of Residence. A Residence Certificate, also known as a House Registration Certificate (Tabien Baan), is an official document issued by the local government and indicates the address where a person resides in Thailand. It is typically obtained by Thai citizens, and it serves as proof of residence for various administrative purposes, such as applying for identification cards, opening bank accounts, or registering for government services. On the other hand, a Certificate of Residence is a document issued by the tax authorities for foreign individuals who are residing in Thailand for tax purposes. The Certificate of Residence is used for claiming tax benefits in accordance with double tax agreements (DTAs) between Thailand and other countries. It confirms that the individual is a resident of Thailand and is eligible for tax benefits, such as reducing or avoiding double taxation on income earned in both Thailand and their home country. Therefore, while both documents relate to residency, they have different purposes and are issued by different authorities.

Note that I am not 100% sure if the above i fully correct.  I have never applied for a Certificate of Residence, but the information about the Residence Certificate is correct. 

[Dezmo]

Thanks.  I might try to get the Residence Certificate this week in Nonthaburi before I leave and see what happens.  Lol. Though might not buy a bike until I get back in a few months...I am curious when it may expire.

[BlueSphinx]

12 minutes ago, Dezmo said:

Thanks.  I might try to get the Residence Certificate this week in Nonthaburi before I leave and see what happens.  Lol. Though might not buy a bike until I get back in a few months...I am curious when it may expire.

Yes, go to your local Imm Office in Nonthaburi and ask what requirements need to be met to provide you with a Residence Certificate.  When you meet the requirements (actually a filed TM-30 should do), then ask how long it will stay valid when using it to apply for a Driver's Permit.

Note 1 - It is possible (like at my SiSaKet Imm Office) that you would need a Request form issued by the local DTP requesting the Imm Office for a Residence Certificate in order for them to provide you with a Thai Driver's Permit. 

Note 2 - If your home-country's Driver's Permit is NOT in english language, make use of the occassion when you are in your home-country to apply for an IDP (Intenational Driver's Permit) as you would need that to apply for the Thai Driver's Permit at the DTP.

[Dezmo]

Thanks again.  Intend to probably buy a motorcycle first and/or get license near the same time so likely need 2 residence documents  ...but later in year.  Probably complete in Nonthaburi where I have an updated TM30 before possibly moving to Hua Hin later.

I have a USA license and my IDP too.

[Dezmo]

On 2/4/2024 at 9:06 PM, BlueSphinx said:

Hi,

I asked ChatGTP whether in Thailand there is a difference between a Residence Certificate and Certificate of Residence.  Here the answer that popped up:

Yes, in Thailand, there is a difference between a Residence Certificate and a Certificate of Residence. A Residence Certificate, also known as a House Registration Certificate (Tabien Baan), is an official document issued by the local government and indicates the address where a person resides in Thailand. It is typically obtained by Thai citizens, and it serves as proof of residence for various administrative purposes, such as applying for identification cards, opening bank accounts, or registering for government services. On the other hand, a Certificate of Residence is a document issued by the tax authorities for foreign individuals who are residing in Thailand for tax purposes. The Certificate of Residence is used for claiming tax benefits in accordance with double tax agreements (DTAs) between Thailand and other countries. It confirms that the individual is a resident of Thailand and is eligible for tax benefits, such as reducing or avoiding double taxation on income earned in both Thailand and their home country. Therefore, while both documents relate to residency, they have different purposes and are issued by different authorities.

Note that I am not 100% sure if the above i fully correct.  I have never applied for a Certificate of Residence, but the information about the Residence Certificate is correct. 

Interesting on the Nonthaburi Immigration site they use both terms:

"Certificate of Residence" (title) and then the doc list of "Residence Certificate" (though I made another post here as they don't seem right... at least they seem very expensive).

Form details seem confusing too as they refer to TM18 and TM16 and imply I need house registration not just TM30  .

https://www.immigration.go.th/?page_id=2441

Maybe its outdated...

[BlueSphinx]

You wrote that you got a Non Imm O Visa.  But from what you wrote I deduct that you actually have a 1-year extension based on that Non Imm O Visa.  Now in order to get hold of such 1-year extension (or of the original Visa when you applied for it in Thailand) you needed to prove to the Immigration office that issued the Visa or extension, that you are residing in their province.  So typically that required a TM-30, and such TM-30 in its turn required that the owner of the place where you are staying had a 'house registration' in their province.  

To simplify thing > The above means that you are officially residing in the province of the Imm Office that issued the Non Imm O Visa/Extension.  And so if your local DPT - where you need to apply to extend your Thai driver's permit - asks for a Residence Certificate as proof that you are living in the province of the DPT, then it is a simple matter of going to your local Imm Office and asking for it.  In many provinces such Residence Certificate is free of charge or costs a couple hundred Bath. 

Note that in my province (SiSaKet) it is free of charge, but in order for the SiSaKet Imm Office to give it to you they want an official request form from the DPT where you plan to apply for the driver's permit.  So if your DPT follows same procedure, in that case you first need to go to the local DPT and when they say they need a Residence Certificate, you ask them - if they do not give it automatically - to provide you with an official request-form so that you can get hold of it at the local Imm Office. 

[Dezmo]

Ok thanks... i do have the 1-year extension that expires soon but I Can go before it does.

I was just curious about the TM30 - if another is needed as the prior one only listed a range of dates (that have since passed).

[BlueSphinx]

5 minutes ago, Dezmo said:

Ok thanks... i do have the 1-year extension that expires soon but I Can go before it does.

I was just curious about the TM30 - if another is needed as the prior one only listed a range of dates (that have since passed).

When you didn't leave Thailand during the period of your 1-year extension of stay you do not need to renew your TM-30 notification, as the one you did before will stay valid (but you are expected to notify your local Imm Office every 3 months that your status has not changed and that you are still living in your official residence, which is done by issuing a 90-day report).  

[Dezmo]

I left before a 90-day reporting...still curious if you do report (or leave and come back) if you do need a new TM30, or do they not even check?

[BlueSphinx]

1 hour ago, Dezmo said:

I left before a 90-day reporting...still curious if you do report (or leave and come back) if you do need a new TM30, or do they not even check?

The Imm Office that provided your Non Imm O Visa will have the TM-30 you provided on file.  And your 90-day reports are nothing more than confirmation from your part that your address as rendered on the TM-30 is still same.  As this is Thailand, the practice will vary in different Imm offices, and in many offices a new TM-30 will not be required, as your 1-year permission to stay and the 90-day reports you did are already proof that 'nothing has changed'.  However there are some Imm offices that do want you to provide a new TM-30 when applying for the 1-year extension of stay of your Non Imm O Visa.