Non-O renewal questions...

[Dezmo]

My Non-O (with ME) visa expires Jan 2025.  I read I can only renew within 30 days of expiring and wanted to be sure. I travel back and forth from the USA and stay here ~2-3 months each times so I need to plan.

I assume I need to show proof that I had 800k baht in my bank account the last 3 months prior to renewal.    Does that mean the balance cannot drop below that on any day in the period?      I use online banking and see that I can request bank statements via email and assume that is ok.    I also need a TM30 (last time they just checked me online) but do I need some sort of TM30 receipt i see mentioned in another thread?

Also if I let the Visa expire, can i renew it later (say a month after expiration?)...or is it just the same process anyway?

Some sites mentioned income and insurance but I thought this not applicable to this type of Visa (it was not when I got it).

https://www.siam-legal.com/thailand-visa/Thailand-Retirement-Visa.php

 

 

[BlueSphinx]

Hi Dezmo,

Below I will provide already an initial response to the questions you posed. 

16 hours ago, Dezmo said:

My Non-O (with ME) visa expires Jan 2025.  I read I can only renew within 30 days of expiring and wanted to be sure. I travel back and forth from the USA and stay here ~2-3 months each times so I need to plan.

When on a Non Imm O Visa - irrespective where you got it, in your home-country, a neighboring country to Thailand or after having applied for it after having entered Thailand VisaExempt or on a Tourist Visa - you can apply for a 1-year extension of the Permission to stay based on that Visa at the local Imm Office of the Thai province where you are residing when in Thailand.

And yes, you can apply for such 1-year extension from 30 days before the expiry date of the Permission to stay you received when you entered Thailand on a still valid Visa.  The same applies when you are already on a 1-year Permission to stay (and the validity of the original Visa on which the extension was based, expired) and want to apply for yet another 1-year extension.  

Note that at some Imm Offices you can even apply for the 1-year extension from 45 days before the expiry date of your Permission to stay.  And when there are compelling reasons to do it even earlier (e.g. because of planned travel abroad) you can plead your case with your local Imm Office, and normally - if there are valid reasons to do it that early - they will allow you to do it. 

16 hours ago, Dezmo said:

I assume I need to show proof that I had 800k baht in my bank account the last 3 months prior to renewal.    Does that mean the balance cannot drop below that on any day in the period?      I use online banking and see that I can request bank statements via email and assume that is ok.

Your assumptions are not fully correct. 

As it is not fully clear from what you wrote, whether your Permission to stay is from your 90-day Non Imm O Visa, or whether you already have a 1-year Permission to stay and want to apply for another one, I will address both cases. 

#1 - If you are on a 90-day Non Imm O Visa, and want to apply for the 1-year extension of stay based on that Visa, you need to provide evidence that in the TWO months preceding the date of your application, you did not slip at any moment during those 2 months under 800.000, - THB of the required funds that need to be kept on a personal Thai bank-account.  

In practice that means that before heading to your local Imm Office to apply for the 1-year extension, that you FIRST would have to go your Thai Bank, and

- first do a small transaction on that account (e.g. adding or withdrawing 1.000,- THB);

- then update your Bank Pass-book such that it shows the balance on that day of application , and

- then ask the Bank staff to provide you with a Bank-Account statement with the Bank letterhead, stating that you are owner of that bank-account and the balance that it shows. 

Note that some Imm Offices, also want that you provide them with a 'Bank Transaction statement'  showing all the transactions you made during the required period (2 months before application date) and showing that you never slipped under the 800K.   The information on that statement should be exactly same as the transactions shown in your updated Bank Pass-book, but some Imm Offices require it as there are Thai banks that 'consolidate'  transactions made, making it not possible for the Imm Office to check whether you did not slip under the required amount during the consolidation period

#2 - If you are already on a 1-year extension of stay (based on your original 90-day Non Imm O Visa), you would need to show that during the 12 months preceding your application for a new 1-year extension of stay that you:

- did not slip under 800K during the first 3 months of that 12 month period, as well as during the last 2 months preceding your date of application

- during the intermediary period, you are allowed to make use of the funds, as long as you do not slip below 400.000,- THB

>> So using on-line banking to create 'statements' of the balance on your personal Thai bank-account is NOT accepted by local Immigration.  As a minimum and as mentioned higher

you need to show:

- the Bank Passbook, updated on the day of application; 

- a Bank letterhead printed Bank-Account statement stating that you are the owner of that account, as well as the balance it shows on the day of application.

16 hours ago, Dezmo said:

I also need a TM30 (last time they just checked me online) but do I need some sort of TM30 receipt i see mentioned in another thread?

The Imm Office will decline to provide you ANY service, when you do or did not provide evidence of having filed a TM30 with them.  With that TM30 you provide evidence of the address where you are staying in Thailand, and since you can only apply for extensions at the local Imm Office of the province you are staying, such a TM30 is needed as the address on that TM30 is your 'official place of residence for Immigration purposes'.

Normally, and as long as you stay on the same string of Permissions to stay based on an original 90-day Non Imm O Visa, the Immigration Office will not ask you to 're-submit' a TM30 when you provided such TM30 earlier.  And the mandatory 90-day reports you need to make when staying longer time in Thailand, are nothing but a confirmation that the official address for immigration purpose according to the TM30 has not changed.  But obviously when you move to a new address, you would have to inform the local Imm Office of that new location that you have moved using a TM30.   And same goes if your Permission to stay is not extended, and you apply for or with a NEW Visa. 

Note that there are some rogue Imm Offices that DO require that you provide a copy of your TM30 when applying for the 1-year extension.  That's crazy Thai bureaucracy, because they should have it on file (but it saves them the time having to look it up themselves, and they put the burden on the shoulders of the applicant to show a document which he/she has provided earlier already). 

16 hours ago, Dezmo said:

Also if I let the Visa expire, can i renew it later (say a month after expiration?)...or is it just the same process anyway?

For sake of clarity you need to distinguish between

- the validity of the Non Imm O Visa, and

- the Permission to stay you received when entering Thailand on a valid Non Imm O Visa.

So if the Visa validity has expired, you cannot use it anymore for entering Thailand or for applying for extensions based on that Visa.

When the date of the Permission to stay based on that Visa is due to expire, you would either have to leave Thailand or apply for an extension of that Permission to stay. 

When remaining in Thailand with a Permission to stay that has expired, you will be on OVERSTAY and that is something which you definitely do not want, as you would be fined for a short overstay when reporting it yourself, but when found out during a routine control you would be detained.  And for longer overstay you will be deported out of Thailand with a ban of 1, 5 or 10 years to enter Thailand again. 

>> IMPORTANT

You wrote that you are only staying 2-3 months every time you visit Thailand.  Now it's important to note that if you do not stay longer than 6 months (over 1 or multiple visits) per year, that there are far easier ways to visit Thailand than applying for a Non Imm O Visa and extensions of such.  

I can provide you with info on all the options you have to avoid the dreadful Thai bureaucracy w.r.t Non Imm O Visa applications and extensions.  But I would need to know first whether there is a particular reason WHY you opted to apply for the Non Imm O Visa you currently have. 

But if it is simply because you presumed that such a Non Imm O Visa was required to make trips of 2-3 months to Thailand, then the good news is that you can spare yourself the effort.  Because in that case entering Thailand VisaExempt (without a Visa) or on a 60-day Tourist Visa, are far easier options to stay in Thailand for such short spells.  You might need to apply for (easy) short-term extensions when doing that, or even having to make a 'border-run' (simply hopping over the border and returning to Thailand, which can be done same day).  But staying 2-3 months using a VisaExemp entry or a 60-day Tourist Visa, is far preferable over the bureaucracy of applying for a Non Imm O Visa and extending the Permission to stay of such. 

16 hours ago, Dezmo said:

Some sites mentioned income and insurance but I thought this not applicable to this type of Visa (it was not when I got it).

https://www.siam-legal.com/thailand-visa/Thailand-Retirement-Visa.php

That website is a commercial legal advice company, and the information they provide is not always fully correct (and in some cases even downright wrong). 

Unfortunately also the 'official' Thai websites providing Visa/Immigration information, and the websites of the Thai Embassies abroad, are in majority of cases not very user-friendly, and often not even complete or fully correct (such that your application can be turned down, even if you fully met the requirements they listed).  

Hence also the need and popularity of Thai Fora that provide Visa/Immigration advice given by expats/long stayers that 'know the Thai ropes' and can guide you through this Thai visa jungle.

>> To answer your question - there is no need for any health-insurance when applying for a Non Imm O Visa.  There is however a mandatory health-insurance requirement when applying for the 1-year Non Imm O-A Visa or for the 5-year Non Imm O-X Visa.  But it is only in very specific cases and circumstances that such O-A or O-X Visa would be an option to consider, because for long-term stay in Thailand the 'regular'  Non Imm O Visa would be your best option.  And in your case, only staying on 2-3 month short-term trips, there are better options as indicate higher.

= = =

I am pretty sure that the above will trigger questions from your part, so feel free to do so and I will answer them to the best of my abilities. 

Cheers,

Red Phoenix

[Dezmo]

1 hour ago, BlueSphinx said:

Hi Dezmo,

Below I will provide already an initial response to the questions you posed. 

When on a Non Imm O Visa - irrespective where you got it, in your home-country, a neighboring country to Thailand or after having applied for it after having entered Thailand VisaExempt or on a Tourist Visa - you can apply for a 1-year extension of the Permission to stay based on that Visa at the local Imm Office of the Thai province where you are residing when in Thailand.

And yes, you can apply for such 1-year extension from 30 days before the expiry date of the Permission to stay you received when you entered Thailand on a still valid Visa.  The same applies when you are already on a 1-year Permission to stay (and the validity of the original Visa on which the extension was based, expired) and want to apply for yet another 1-year extension.  

Note that at some Imm Offices you can even apply for the 1-year extension from 45 days before the expiry date of your Permission to stay.  And when there are compelling reasons to do it even earlier (e.g. because of planned travel abroad) you can plead your case with your local Imm Office, and normally - if there are valid reasons to do it that early - they will allow you to do it. 

....

Wow thank you for the information.    I may break up my replies in separate posts.

My Non-O (with ME) expires Jan 21, 2025. I obtained the 90-day + 1 year (and ME) in Oct 23, 2023 using a "service".  So the 90-day expired Jan 21, 2024 and the 1 year extension expires Jan 21, 2025.   (I opened the bank account and completed the immigration work all in 1 day.)   Honestly I just thought it easier to get the Non-O rather than just enter each time on the 30 day thing and have to renew it if I stayed longer.  Typically I am here ~15-80 days, several times a year for the next year or 2.    But I had read that I may get 'tagged" by an IO if i enter more than X times in X month timeframe on that system so just figured it would be easier to get the Non-O.  

So I wondered how early I could renew since I would need to plan my trip accordingly.  I also assume i need to renew at the IO office in the city that i live (TM30 says) as I did when I initially completed it.

The "service" I used also offers help with the renewal... and I may have to leverage them again... see my next post about the bank thing :)

Edited January 31 by Dezmo

[Dezmo]

1 hour ago, BlueSphinx said:

Your assumptions are not fully correct. 

As it is not fully clear from what you wrote, whether your Permission to stay is from your 90-day Non Imm O Visa, or whether you already have a 1-year Permission to stay and want to apply for another one, I will address both cases. 

#1 - If you are on a 90-day Non Imm O Visa, and want to apply for the 1-year extension of stay based on that Visa, you need to provide evidence that in the TWO months preceding the date of your application, you did not slip at any moment during those 2 months under 800.000, - THB of the required funds that need to be kept on a personal Thai bank-account.  

In practice that means that before heading to your local Imm Office to apply for the 1-year extension, that you FIRST would have to go your Thai Bank, and

- first do a small transaction on that account (e.g. adding or withdrawing 1.000,- THB);

- then update your Bank Pass-book such that it shows the balance on that day of application , and

- then ask the Bank staff to provide you with a Bank-Account statement with the Bank letterhead, stating that you are owner of that bank-account and the balance that it shows. 

Note that some Imm Offices, also want that you provide them with a 'Bank Transaction statement'  showing all the transactions you made during the required period (2 months before application date) and showing that you never slipped under the 800K.   The information on that statement should be exactly same as the transactions shown in your updated Bank Pass-book, but some Imm Offices require it as there are Thai banks that 'consolidate'  transactions made, making it not possible for the Imm Office to check whether you did not slip under the required amount during the consolidation period

#2 - If you are already on a 1-year extension of stay (based on your original 90-day Non Imm O Visa), you would need to show that during the 12 months preceding your application for a new 1-year extension of stay that you:

- did not slip under 800K during the first 3 months of that 12 month period, as well as during the last 2 months preceding your date of application

- during the intermediary period, you are allowed to make use of the funds, as long as you do not slip below 400.000,- THB

>> So using on-line banking to create 'statements' of the balance on your personal Thai bank-account is NOT accepted by local Immigration.  As a minimum and as mentioned higher

you need to show:

- the Bank Passbook, updated on the day of application; 

- a Bank letterhead printed Bank-Account statement stating that you are the owner of that account, as well as the balance it shows on the day of application.

I am on the 1 year extension (see my prior reply).  Expires Jan 2025. 

I may have an issue with the 800k balance as I did not maintain that since my application ):   I obtained the 90-day + 1 year (and ME) in Oct 23, 2023 using a "service".  So the 90-day expired Jan 21, 2024 and the 1 year extension expires Jan 21, 2025.  

I can add the needed funds now but wonder if it is too late....since the first 3 months started already (I only have about 62k in it)?

I feel I may be stuck to starting over :)

[Pinetree]

2 minutes ago, Dezmo said:

I am on the 1 year extension (see my prior reply).  Expires Jan 2025. 

I may have an issue with the 800k balance as I did not maintain that since my application ):   I obtained the 90-day + 1 year (and ME) in Oct 23, 2023 using a "service".  So the 90-day expired Jan 21, 2024 and the 1 year extension expires Jan 21, 2025.  

I can add the needed funds now but wonder if it is too late....since the first 3 months started already (I only have about 62k in it)?

I feel I may be stuck to starting over :)

Go to see a respected visa agent and talk it over with them.  There may be some flexibilities of which you are unaware. If you are in the Pattaya area, I would recommend 'Key Visa'.  The lady that now runs it is very knowledgeable. They have been dealing with my annual extensions for the past 7 years. 

[Dezmo]

1 hour ago, BlueSphinx said:

The Imm Office will decline to provide you ANY service, when you do or did not provide evidence of having filed a TM30 with them.  With that TM30 you provide evidence of the address where you are staying in Thailand, and since you can only apply for extensions at the local Imm Office of the province you are staying, such a TM30 is needed as the address on that TM30 is your 'official place of residence for Immigration purposes'.

Normally, and as long as you stay on the same string of Permissions to stay based on an original 90-day Non Imm O Visa, the Immigration Office will not ask you to 're-submit' a TM30 when you provided such TM30 earlier.  And the mandatory 90-day reports you need to make when staying longer time in Thailand, are nothing but a confirmation that the official address for immigration purpose according to the TM30 has not changed.  But obviously when you move to a new address, you would have to inform the local Imm Office of that new location that you have moved using a TM30.   And same goes if your Permission to stay is not extended, and you apply for or with a NEW Visa. 

Note that there are some rogue Imm Offices that DO require that you provide a copy of your TM30 when applying for the 1-year extension.  That's crazy Thai bureaucracy, because they should have it on file (but it saves them the time having to look it up themselves, and they put the burden on the shoulders of the applicant to show a document which he/she has provided earlier already). 

For sake of clarity you need to distinguish between

- the validity of the Non Imm O Visa, and

- the Permission to stay you received when entering Thailand on a valid Non Imm O Visa.

So if the Visa validity has expired, you cannot use it anymore for entering Thailand or for applying for extensions based on that Visa.

When the date of the Permission to stay based on that Visa is due to expire, you would either have to leave Thailand or apply for an extension of that Permission to stay. 

When remaining in Thailand with a Permission to stay that has expired, you will be on OVERSTAY and that is something which you definitely do not want, as you would be fined for a short overstay when reporting it yourself, but when found out during a routine control you would be detained.  And for longer overstay you will be deported out of Thailand with a ban of 1, 5 or 10 years to enter Thailand again. 

>> IMPORTANT

You wrote that you are only staying 2-3 months every time you visit Thailand.  Now it's important to note that if you do not stay longer than 6 months (over 1 or multiple visits) per year, that there are far easier ways to visit Thailand than applying for a Non Imm O Visa and extensions of such.  

I can provide you with info on all the options you have to avoid the dreadful Thai bureaucracy w.r.t Non Imm O Visa applications and extensions.  But I would need to know first whether there is a particular reason WHY you opted to apply for the Non Imm O Visa you currently have. 

But if it is simply because you presumed that such a Non Imm O Visa was required to make trips of 2-3 months to Thailand, then the good news is that you can spare yourself the effort.  Because in that case entering Thailand VisaExempt (without a Visa) or on a 60-day Tourist Visa, are far easier options to stay in Thailand for such short spells.  You might need to apply for (easy) short-term extensions when doing that, or even having to make a 'border-run' (simply hopping over the border and returning to Thailand, which can be done same day).  But staying 2-3 months using a VisaExemp entry or a 60-day Tourist Visa, is far preferable over the bureaucracy of applying for a Non Imm O Visa and extending the Permission to stay of such. 

That website is a commercial legal advice company, and the information they provide is not always fully correct (and in some cases even downright wrong). 

Unfortunately also the 'official' Thai websites providing Visa/Immigration information, and the websites of the Thai Embassies abroad, are in majority of cases not very user-friendly, and often not even complete or fully correct (such that your application can be turned down, even if you fully met the requirements they listed).  

Hence also the need and popularity of Thai Fora that provide Visa/Immigration advice given by expats/long stayers that 'know the Thai ropes' and can guide you through this Thai visa jungle.

>> To answer your question - there is no need for any health-insurance when applying for a Non Imm O Visa.  There is however a mandatory health-insurance requirement when applying for the 1-year Non Imm O-A Visa or for the 5-year Non Imm O-X Visa.  But it is only in very specific cases and circumstances that such O-A or O-X Visa would be an option to consider, because for long-term stay in Thailand the 'regular'  Non Imm O Visa would be your best option.  And in your case, only staying on 2-3 month short-term trips, there are better options as indicate higher.

= = =

I am pretty sure that the above will trigger questions from your part, so feel free to do so and I will answer them to the best of my abilities. 

Cheers,

Red Phoenix

Thanks again. I mentioned in prior reply why I opted for the Non-O... mostly convenience.

So, my visa expires Jan 21, 2025.  If it expires while I am out of country I assume I can still enter on the 30-day exemption or get the 60 day Tourist Visa.

But if it expires while I am in Thailand, do I need to obtain the 30-day exemption by leaving just before/on/after Jan 21 so not get tagged for an overstay?  Or maybe just go to an IO office?   I ask since in my prior reply about the bank requirements, I think I do not meet the balance requirements to renew my 1 year ):

Again i worry about any rules (reading various website is confusing) about how many times I can enter on the exempt things in X months...  :)

I may look into medical insurance for my shorts stays or entire year anyway as dealing with American companies for reimbursements may be a hassle ):

[Dezmo]

5 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

Go to see a respected visa agent and talk it over with them.  There may be some flexibilities of which you are unaware. If you are in the Pattaya area, I would recommend 'Key Visa'.  The lady that now runs it is very knowledgeable. They have been dealing with my annual extensions for the past 7 years. 

Thanks.. i am in Nonthaburi now but we may move to Hua Hin later this year. Maybe I will just load up my bank account now... so if I have a do-over the bank requirements will be set :)

[BlueSphinx]

20 hours ago, Dezmo said:

Wow thank you for the information.    I may break up my replies in separate posts.

My Non-O (with ME) expires Jan 21, 2025. I obtained the 90-day + 1 year (and ME) in Oct 23, 2023 using a "service".  So the 90-day expired Jan 21, 2024 and the 1 year extension expires Jan 21, 2025.   (I opened the bank account and completed the immigration work all in 1 day.)   Honestly I just thought it easier to get the Non-O rather than just enter each time on the 30 day thing and have to renew it if I stayed longer.  Typically I am here ~15-80 days, several times a year for the next year or 2.    But I had read that I may get 'tagged" by an IO if i enter more than X times in X month timeframe on that system so just figured it would be easier to get the Non-O.  

So I wondered how early I could renew since I would need to plan my trip accordingly.  I also assume i need to renew at the IO office in the city that i live (TM30 says) as I did when I initially completed it.

The "service" I used also offers help with the renewal... and I may have to leverage them again... see my next post about the bank thing :)

OK, this clarifies your situation and will allow me to provide a clear response.

So you made use of a Visa Agent, to help you get hold of initially the 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement, followed by the 1-year extension based on that original Non Imm O Visa. 

And your current Permission to stay (protected by a Multiple Entry Re-Entry Permit) is valid till January 21, 2025.

>> Given the above, the issue of re-applying for your next extension will only become relevant early 2025.  With your Re-Entry permit protected Permission to stay till 21 January next year, you can exit and re-enter Thailand as often as you want and each time on re-entry you will be 'stamped in' again with a Permission to stay till 21 January 2025. 

As you wrote that you only stay for short periods in Thailand during the year, so there is no need for you to do 90-day reports, as that has to be done only when you are staying longer than 90-days in Thailand from date of entry. 

For the renewal of your current Permission to stay, that can be done by applying for a 1-year extension of your current 1-year Permission to stay.  And that can be done from 30 days before expiry date of that Permission to stay, till its due date (21-01-2025).  Note that at some Imm Offices you can do it from 45 days before expiry date, an if there are special circumstances (e.g. you not being the country during the regular re-application period) you can even discuss the case with your local Imm Office to do it even more early, which in majority of cases will be granted if it is for legitimate reasons.  

But I understand now that your main concern is planning your trips such that you would be in Thailand during the time-window for a new 1-year extension based on your Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement.  And you definitely need to be in Thailand during that period, because Immigration will need your passport to provide the approved extension of stay.  

QUESTION > Do you want to do that next 1-year extension of stay application by yourself, or will you once again make use of the services of a Visa Agent to do it for you? 

Note that you can only do it yourself, when the required funds for the extension application (+800K) have been on your personal Thai bank-account and did not slip under 800K during the 12 months preceding the day of application for that 1-year extension.  If the services of the VisaAgent consisted of 'fixing' that financial requirement for you, you won't be able to do it yourself and will once again have to use the fixer Visa Agent to circumvent that financial requirement.

In case you DID have the +800K on your personal Thai bank-account during those 12 months and want to do it yourself, I can provide you on request with the overview of what is required by Immigration (which is relatively simple for a 'retirement' extension).

[BlueSphinx]

20 hours ago, Dezmo said:

I am on the 1 year extension (see my prior reply).  Expires Jan 2025. 

I may have an issue with the 800k balance as I did not maintain that since my application ):   I obtained the 90-day + 1 year (and ME) in Oct 23, 2023 using a "service".  So the 90-day expired Jan 21, 2024 and the 1 year extension expires Jan 21, 2025.  

I can add the needed funds now but wonder if it is too late....since the first 3 months started already (I only have about 62k in it)?

I feel I may be stuck to starting over :)

Yes, as explained in my previous response, when you would be applying by yourself for the 1-year extension of stay early 2025, it would NOT be approved as you just confirmed that you will not be able to show evidence that you did meet the financial requirements during the 12 months preceding your application. 

So there are 2 options:

#1 - Making use of a Visa Agent, who can 'fix' that financial requirement for you.

#2 - Letting your current Re-Entry protected Permission to stay expire while out of Thailand, and then

a) apply for a NEW 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement at the Thai Embassy of your home-country (which needs to be done when you are in your home-country)

OR

b) exit Thailand before expiry of your 21 Jan 2025 Permission to stay, and re-enter Thailand after that date either VisaExempt or on a TouristVisa, and then restart the application process from scratch.

[Dezmo]

19 minutes ago, BlueSphinx said:

OK, this clarifies your situation and will allow me to provide a clear response.

So you made use of a Visa Agent, to help you get hold of initially the 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement, followed by the 1-year extension based on that original Non Imm O Visa. 

And your current Permission to stay (protected by a Multiple Entry Re-Entry Permit) is valid till January 21, 2025.

>> Given the above, the issue of re-applying for your next extension will only become relevant early 2025.  With your Re-Entry permit protected Permission to stay till 21 January next year, you can exit and re-enter Thailand as often as you want and each time on re-entry you will be 'stamped in' again with a Permission to stay till 21 January 2025. 

As you wrote that you only stay for short periods in Thailand during the year, so there is no need for you to do 90-day reports, as that has to be done only when you are staying longer than 90-days in Thailand from date of entry. 

For the renewal of your current Permission to stay, that can be done by applying for a 1-year extension of your current 1-year Permission to stay.  And that can be done from 30 days before expiry date of that Permission to stay, till its due date (21-01-2025).  Note that at some Imm Offices you can do it from 45 days before expiry date, an if there are special circumstances (e.g. you not being the country during the regular re-application period) you can even discuss the case with your local Imm Office to do it even more early, which in majority of cases will be granted if it is for legitimate reasons.  

But I understand now that your main concern is planning your trips such that you would be in Thailand during the time-window for a new 1-year extension based on your Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement.  And you definitely need to be in Thailand during that period, because Immigration will need your passport to provide the approved extension of stay.  

QUESTION > Do you want to do that next 1-year extension of stay application by yourself, or will you once again make use of the services of a Visa Agent to do it for you? 

Note that you can only do it yourself, when the required funds for the extension application (+800K) have been on your personal Thai bank-account and did not slip under 800K during the 12 months preceding the day of application for that 1-year extension.  If the services of the VisaAgent consisted of 'fixing' that financial requirement for you, you won't be able to do it yourself and will once again have to use the fixer Visa Agent to circumvent that financial requirement.

In case you DID have the +800K on your personal Thai bank-account during those 12 months and want to do it yourself, I can provide you on request with the overview of what is required by Immigration (which is relatively simple for a 'retirement' extension).

Thank you again.

I may have an issue with the 800k balance as I did not maintain that since my application ):   I obtained the 90-day + 1 year (and ME) in Oct 23, 2023 using a VisaAgent.  So the 90-day expired Jan 21, 2024 and the 1 year extension expires Jan 21, 2025.  

As you say, I may have to use the VisaAgent again (and then maybe keep the 800K in the account so as to meet requirements for future renewals).

Can I just start over?  What if I get the balance up now (or at least 2 months prior to going in again to IO?  Would I have to wait until my current VIsa expires (after Jan 21, 2025) or could I "start over" before that?   I think I might risk an overstay if I wait until after Jan 21, 2025 so maybe I would have to leave and come back to get the 30 exemption stamp - but when would would be best to do that?

 

** Ah think you just answered above :) ***

Edited February 1 by Dezmo

[BlueSphinx]

20 hours ago, Dezmo said:

Thanks again. I mentioned in prior reply why I opted for the Non-O... mostly convenience.

So, my visa expires Jan 21, 2025.  If it expires while I am out of country I assume I can still enter on the 30-day exemption or get the 60 day Tourist Visa.

But if it expires while I am in Thailand, do I need to obtain the 30-day exemption by leaving just before/on/after Jan 21 so not get tagged for an overstay?  Or maybe just go to an IO office?   I ask since in my prior reply about the bank requirements, I think I do not meet the balance requirements to renew my 1 year ):

Again i worry about any rules (reading various website is confusing) about how many times I can enter on the exempt things in X months...  :)

I may look into medical insurance for my shorts stays or entire year anyway as dealing with American companies for reimbursements may be a hassle ):

Yes when your 21 Jan 2025 Permission to stay expired when you are outside Thailand, you can simply re-enter Thailand VisaExempt or on a 60-day Tourist Visa.

As you will not be able to meet the financial requirements for the 1-year extension of stay (as you explained in an earlier post) you DEFINITELY have to make sure that you exited Thailand before your 21 Jan 2025 Permission to stay has expired.  Otherwise you would be on overstay, which would complicate things enormously.

As explained in my very first response, in your case - only staying for relatively short periods in Thailand, not exceeding 180 days per calendar year), there would be no problem at all to enter VisaExempt (without a Visa).  Such VisaExempt entry would provide you with a 30-day Permission to stay, which can be extended for an additional 30 days at ANY Thai Imm office (cost 1900,- THB).  The additional 30 days will be added to the expiry date of your Permission to stay.  Thus using that method you can stay 60 days in Thailand.  When wanting to stay longer, it's then just a matter of exiting Thailand at the end of those 60 days by doing a 'border-hop' which on re-entry VisaExempt will provide you once again with a 30-day Permission to stay (which can also be extended again).

You can do TWO land-border entries VisaExempt per calendar year.  And there is no limitation on VisaExempt entries by air.  However, when doing multiple VisaExempt entries and staying considerable time of the year in Thailand, Thai border immigration might consider you 'not a regular tourist' and deny you entry.  So you could instead of entering VisaExempt after your border-run, apply at the Thai Embassy or consulate in the neighboring country where you did the border-run for a 60-day Tourist Visa.  And such Tourist Visa also allows one 30-day extension at any Thai Imm Office. 

>> When having multiple shorter trips to Thailand over the year as you are doing, but these adding up to +180 days per year, then indeed going for the Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement is the best option to avoid any border-immigration issues, as a passport full of VisaExempt and TouristVisa entries to Thailand will trigger scrutiny by border-immigration.

 

[BlueSphinx]

21 hours ago, Dezmo said:

Thanks.. i am in Nonthaburi now but we may move to Hua Hin later this year. Maybe I will just load up my bank account now... so if I have a do-over the bank requirements will be set :)

There is absolutely no reason in your current situation to load up your personal Thai bank, as you already NOW are not able to meet the 12-month financial requirement that needs to be complied with when applying for a NEW 1-year extension early 2025.  

In your case it is recommended to ensure that you have the +800K just before you make use of a VisaAgent to get your 1-year extension.  The VisaAgent can fix the financial requirement for your Jan 2025 1-year extension application.  But if you have the +800K just before the Visa Agent would do that appication for you, in would then allow you to do it by yourself the year after that (early 2026).

[BlueSphinx]

21 minutes ago, Dezmo said:

Thank you again.

I may have an issue with the 800k balance as I did not maintain that since my application ):   I obtained the 90-day + 1 year (and ME) in Oct 23, 2023 using a VisaAgent.  So the 90-day expired Jan 21, 2024 and the 1 year extension expires Jan 21, 2025.  

As you say, I may have to use the VisaAgent again (and then maybe keep the 800K in the account so as to meet requirements for future renewals).

Can I just start over?  What if I get the balance up now (or at least 2 months prior to going in again to IO?  Would I have to wait until my current VIsa expires (after Jan 21, 2025) or could I "start over" before that?   I think I might risk an overstay if I wait until after Jan 21, 2025 so maybe I would have to leave and come back to get the 30 exemption stamp - but when would would be best to do that?

** Ah think you just answered above :) ***

Yes, all your questions have been addressed in my responses, but do not hesitate to reach out if something is not clear.

[Dezmo]

6 minutes ago, BlueSphinx said:

There is absolutely no reason in your current situation to load up your personal Thai bank, as you already NOW are not able to meet the 12-month financial requirement that needs to be complied with when applying for a NEW 1-year extension early 2025.  

In your case it is recommended to ensure that you have the +800K just before you make use of a VisaAgent to get your 1-year extension.  The VisaAgent can fix the financial requirement for your Jan 2025 1-year extension application.  But if you have the +800K just before the Visa Agent would do that appication for you, in would then allow you to do it by yourself the year after that (early 2026).

Thanks again.

I guess what I mean is that if I wanted to 'start over', can i just load up the account (800k+) the ~3 months before I try to apply for the Non-O on my own. I will be sure to get into the country later with the 30 day exemption (so not risk overstay).

For example, if I enter some time after Jan 21, 2025 on the 30 day exemption, and have had the 800k for the prior 3 months, can I get the new Non-O on my own?

Also I am currently in the Bangkok area and opened the account at local Bangkok Bank branch. I may move to live in Hua Hin later this year but wanted to be sure having a bank account at a Bangkok Bank branch in Bangkok is not an issue (guess I do need statements though) or would it be best to "move" my account to Hua Hin?  I notice that to change my address on my account I need to go to the branch I opened it ):  (Seems they are independent and I cannot even see or change my address in the app.)

 

[BlueSphinx]

3 minutes ago, Dezmo said:

Thanks again.

I guess what I mean is that if I wanted to 'start over', can i just load up the account (800k+) the ~3 months before I try to apply for the Non-O on my own. I will be sure to get into the country later with the 30 day exemption (so not risk overstay).

For example, if I enter some time after Jan 21, 2025 on the 30 day exemption, and have had the 800k for the prior 3 months, can I get the new Non-O on my own?

Also I am currently in the Bangkok area and opened the account at local Bangkok Bank branch. I may move to live in Hua Hin later this year but wanted to be sure having a bank account at a Bangkok Bank branch in Bangkok is not an issue (guess I do need statements though) or would it be best to "move" my account to Hua Hin?  I notice that to change my address on my account I need to go to the branch I opened it ):  (Seems they are independent and I cannot even see or change my address in the app.)

When not wanting to engage a fixer VisaAgent who can circumvent the financial requirements for you, you would have to 'start over' again from scratch by applying for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement at the local Imm Office of the province where you are residing, and where you have your 'official address for Immigration purposes'.

The Good News is that when applying for that 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement using the 'funds in bank' method, that the required +800K ONLY needs to be on your personal Thai bank-account AT THE MOMENT OF APPLICATION. The 'seasoning requirements' are only applicable when applying for the 1-year extensions of such 90-day Non Imm O Visa.

In your case there is also the unfortunate circumstance that you did buy a MultipleEntry Re-Entry Permit to protect the 25 January 2025 Permission to stay of your current 1-year extension.  And that means that you cannot start the 'start over' process already.  When you do not have a Re-Entry Permit (or a SingleEntry one that you used already) it would be a simple matter of hopping over the border and by doing so your Permission to stay would be automatically voided.  And that allows you then to immediately return VisaExempt.   But the ME RE-Entry Permit you bought, actually proves a burden in your case as it will keep protecting your current 21 January Permission to stay when re-entering.  So in your case you will have to wait till after 25 January 2025 to be able to enter Thailand VisaExempt and allowing you to apply from that VisaExempt entry for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement. 

So there are 2 options, depending where you will be on 25 January 2025:

> When in your home-country, just ensure that you re-enter Thailand after 25 Jan 2025

> When in Thailand, first ensure that you have left the country ultimately 25 Jan 2025 (otherwise you are n overstay), and by doing a border-hop on that 25 Jan 2025 expiry date of your Permission to stay, you will be able to re-enter VisaExempt.

NOTE: When re-entering Thailand when you have only a couple of days left on your Re-Entry Permit protected Permission to stay, you can request the border-immigration officer NOT to honor that Re-Entry Permit, but provide you with a 30-day Permission to stay.  Often tourist-friendly border-officials will actually ask what you prefer, but there is of course the risk that you meet a grumpy one that will 'follow the rules' and stamp you in till 25 Jan 2025 because of that valid Re-Entry Permit. 

[BlueSphinx]

22 minutes ago, Dezmo said:

Also I am currently in the Bangkok area and opened the account at local Bangkok Bank branch. I may move to live in Hua Hin later this year but wanted to be sure having a bank account at a Bangkok Bank branch in Bangkok is not an issue (guess I do need statements though) or would it be best to "move" my account to Hua Hin?  I notice that to change my address on my account I need to go to the branch I opened it ):  (Seems they are independent and I cannot even see or change my address in the app.)

Yes, it makes sense to have the Bank-account where you keep the required financial funds for the Non Imm O Visa, at a Bank branche near to where you live. 

This because at the moment of application for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa or later for the 1-year extensions of such, that you will need to provide a Bank-Account statement issued on the DATE OF APPLICATION for the Visa or extension, stating that you are the owner of that account and the balance it shows. So in practice that means that on the day of application you FIRST need to go the Bank-branche where you have your Bank-account to get hold of that document. 

If the HuaHin Bangkok Bank branche confirms that they can issue such a statement even if your account has been opened in Bangkok, there would be no issue. But considering Thai bureaucratic banking rules, it is well possible that they tell you 'Can't Do' and that would mean that you would have to go in the morning to your original Bangkok-based BKB branche to get hold of that document and then go to HuaHin so that you can do the application on arrival there in the afternoon. 

Conclusion > Moving your Bank-account to a branche near where you live is the sensible thing to do. 

[Dezmo]

2 hours ago, BlueSphinx said:

Yes, it makes sense to have the Bank-account where you keep the required financial funds for the Non Imm O Visa, at a Bank branche near to where you live. 

This because at the moment of application for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa or later for the 1-year extensions of such, that you will need to provide a Bank-Account statement issued on the DATE OF APPLICATION for the Visa or extension, stating that you are the owner of that account and the balance it shows. So in practice that means that on the day of application you FIRST need to go the Bank-branche where you have your Bank-account to get hold of that document. 

If the HuaHin Bangkok Bank branche confirms that they can issue such a statement even if your account has been opened in Bangkok, there would be no issue. But considering Thai bureaucratic banking rules, it is well possible that they tell you 'Can't Do' and that would mean that you would have to go in the morning to your original Bangkok-based BKB branche to get hold of that document and then go to HuaHin so that you can do the application on arrival there in the afternoon. 

Conclusion > Moving your Bank-account to a branche near where you live is the sensible thing to do. 

 

Ah the complications with banking here :)   Seems a hassle to have to get the bank statement on the same day as applying for the Non-O Visa...so it makes sense the bank and IO are close   :)

I can easily add the 800k+ for the month[s] prior to the application for the  90-day Non Imm O Visa.       A few other thoughts though....

-- If I leave Thailand before the 90-day Non Imm O Visa expires when I come back later (after the 90the day) I assume I would enter with the 30-day exemption. If so, can I then still apply for the 1 year Non-O extension?  

-- Can I apply for the 1 year Non-O extension while I am here on the 90-day Visa?  Any time frame requirements (e.g., does it need to be near the end of my 90 days)?

-- Do you know how one initiates the movement of the bank account?  Would I just go to the Hua Hin branch and ask them to transfer from my Bangkok branch or would I go to Bangkok and ask them to transfer to Hua Hin.  Or do I have to actually close the account and start over (ha).

It might be simpler to just fix all this while in Bangkok and then worry about moving my account later :)    I assume a later move does not impact my Non-O Visa (I just need to update the TM30).

 

[BlueSphinx]

3 minutes ago, Dezmo said:

-- If I leave Thailand before the 90-day Non Imm O Visa expires when I come back later (after the 90the day) I assume I would enter with the 30-day exemption. If so, can I then still apply for the 1 year Non-O extension?  

When you leave Thailand BEFORE the expiry date of the Permission to stay you received based on the 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement, the Permission to stay will be voided the moment you leave Thailand.  When you buy a Re-Entry Permit before leaving Thailand, you can re-enter Thailand and you will be stamped in again for the remaining days on your Permission to stay.  

When your Re-Entry Permit protect Permission to stay date expires while you are abroad, you are back at 'base camp' and you can then re-enter Thailand VisaExempt (without a Visa) and that will provide you with a 30-day Permission to stay stamped in your passport by Thai border-immigration.

Then, while you still have at least 15 days left on that Permission to stay (21 days in Chiang-Mai and 15 business-days in Phuket), you can apply at the local Imm Office of the province where you plan to reside while in Thailand for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa.  When doing this for reason of 'retirement' (which does not require being retired as the only criterium is that you are at least 50 years of age at moment of application) the main requirement is the financial one.  Using the 'money in bank' method it means that you need to show at date of application for that Non Imm O Visa, that you have +800K on a personal Thai bank-account with foreign origins of the funds proven.  Note that if you already have +800K on your Thai bank-account for a long time, the requirement of proven foreign origin of those funds will be waived.

And at the end of the Permission to stay from that 90-days Non Imm O Visa, you can then apply for the 1-year extension based on such Visa.  The window to do this is from 30 days before Permission to stay expiry till the actual Permission to stay expiry date.  The financial requirement for such first-time 1-year extension application is that the +800K (which had to be on your personal Thai bank-account at moment of application) has been 'seasoned' for at least 2 months without dipping under the 800K tresshold.  So if you simply leave the 800K on your bank-account a moment of application for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa, it will automatically have been seasoned for 2 months when you apply for the 1-year extension. 

[BlueSphinx]

20 minutes ago, Dezmo said:

Do you know how one initiates the movement of the bank account?  Would I just go to the Hua Hin branch and ask them to transfer from my Bangkok branch or would I go to Bangkok and ask them to transfer to Hua Hin.  Or do I have to actually close the account and start over (ha).

It might be simpler to just fix all this while in Bangkok and then worry about moving my account later :)    I assume a later move does not impact my Non-O Visa (I just need to update the TM30).

No experience from my part w.r.t. moving a bank-account.  I suggest to simply consult your current Bangkok-based BangkokBank branche and ask about how to do that.  Also their website and Helpdesk-function should be able to provide you with the information.

Relocating to a different address does not affect the Permission to stay provided on the basis of your Non Imm O Visa or its extension.  However, you would need to provide a TM-30 with your new address to the Imm Office of the province to where you are moving.  When accepted the Imm Office of that province would then become the office where you would have to do apply for any Immigration service you require.