News Forum - Northeast Thailand: Fatal motorbike accident at Amata City Chon Buri Industrial Estate claims life

[cowslip]

3 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Survived 15 Years Driving Extensively in Various Third World Countries plus Thailand.
One Bad Accident Only. Anybody claiming “ No Accidents” with even five years under those conditions is a goddamn LIAR. Places included Iraq, Venezuela, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, UAE. 

UK Institute of Advanced Motorist Certificate.  Equivalent to ROSPA Silver level.Expert Defensive Driver. That’s All About “Prevention of (Road) Accidents”.

Lived in Thailand 2004-2023, when Not Working, with Thai House & Thai Family. Thai House Vacation Rental Business. Know Enough It Seems. My Reasons for living in Thailand have Nothing to do with Anything Thai. 

I've driven more, further and longer tahn you, but more importantly I also have an education in Traffic engineering. I've learned from experience to  - uoyou it would appear ave just picked up bad habits and prejudices

 

[oldschooler]

9 minutes ago, cowslip said:

Here's something to help you understand road safety

Safe System approach

The Safe System approach recognizes that road transport is a complex system and places safety at its core (3). It also recognizes that humans, vehicles and the road infrastructure must interact in a way that ensures a high level of safety (Fig. 1). A Safe System therefore (3):

 anticipates and accommodates human errors;

 incorporates road and vehicle designs that limit crash forces to levels that are within human tolerance

to prevent death or serious injury;

 motivates those who design and maintain the roads, manufacture vehicles and administer safety programmes to share responsibility for safety with road users, so that when a crash occurs, remedies are sought throughout the system, rather than solely blaming the driver or other road users;

 pursues a commitment to proactive and continuous improvement of roads and vehicles so that the entire system is made safe rather than just locations or situations where crashes last occurred; and

 adheres to the underlying premise that the transport system should produce zero deaths or serious injuries and that safety should not be compromised for the sake of other factors such as cost or the desire for faster transport times. - WHO

It helps if you have average comprehension siklls

WHO ? United Nations wrote that ? They are NOT Experts in Road Safety. Have you actually read that ?

Thats Just high level theory waffle sold by “ consultants” who don’t implement anything and who pro probably “googled” their assignment. or gave it to the Intern

No practical use for motorists who want to SURVIVE in the real motoring world not read about some fantasy unobtainable RTA Utopia

However, No doubt reviewed / implemented as necessary by UK Govt. In consultation with ROSPA.
Try quoting UK ROSPA on Actual Practical Road Safety for any credibility. Oh, you don’t know ROSPA
UK / ROSPA the World Leader for Road Safety ……then Netherlands & Sweden. 

Unfortunately for you I do know what I’m talking about.
You are like a 14 year old rudely contesting with a learned Master on this subject

You haven’t offered one single RTA root cause nor any Solutions. 
Endless Pathetic Race Card Player…… strange that a Marxist should live in Thailand.

Vancouver, Baltimore, LA, Chicago better surely ? 

 

[TedG]

12 hours ago, cowslip said:

Motorcycle deaths account for around 75 to 80% of all deaths on Thai roads - this is a public health issue - it costs the Thai economy a fortune yet for more than 3 decades, despite all the evidence the Thai aur=thorities have failed to address this.

 

Riding a Motorcycle in Thailand - Tripadvisor. The World Health Organisation has just upgraded Thailand's Status to the second most dangerous place in the world for road safety. There are currently about forty people a day dying on Thai Roads, around 72% of them being motorcycle riders.

 

I cringe at the lack of safety gear.   

[oldschooler]

3 hours ago, cowslip said:

I've driven more, further and longer tahn you, but more importantly I also have an education in Traffic engineering. I've learned from experience to  - uoyou it would appear ave just picked up bad habits and prejudices

Traffic Engineering a different subject and entirely unimportant to a Motorist who deals with what’s actually in place. So it’s no RTA issue that untrained illegal 12 year olds use motorbikes here… and dies like flies.
You don’t know my habits or length or duration of my driving, fool. Have given you Facts idiot, not prejudices. You respond with nothing…….. just write nonsense like a faulty AI program.  

 

[cowslip]

 

 

24 minutes ago, TedG said:

he World Health Organisation has just upgraded Thailand's Status to the second most dangerous place in the world for road safety

Where is that document - it doesn't sound like WHO

[Khunmark]

8 hours ago, TedG said:

Riding a Motorcycle in Thailand - Tripadvisor. The World Health Organisation has just upgraded Thailand's Status to the second most dangerous place in the world for road safety. There are currently about forty people a day dying on Thai Roads, around 72% of them being motorcycle riders.

I cringe at the lack of safety gear.   

There is an absence of will on the part of both the police and the motorists. Couple this with a driver/rider education program sadly lacking in rigour in preparing the public for road use and you have a recipe for disaster.

[cowslip]

1 hour ago, Khunmark said:

There is an absence of will on the part of both the police and the motorists. Couple this with a driver/rider education program sadly lacking in rigour in preparing the public for road use and you have a recipe for disaster.

TIt is common for people to cherry pick obnne or two motoring issues and put them forward as the solution to Thailand's problems -  but all it shows is a lack of understanding of the basics of raod safety.

 

Thailand has a perfectly good trainer program - it may not  be very well enforced.

In fact of those "experts" on motoring in Thailand took their tests 50 years ago when tests were completely worthless.

Countries in Northern Europe have continuous public safety campaigns to educate motorist

Education is only ONE of the 5 Es of road safety - you have to implement all 5 for road safety to improve - just doing one has no significant effect.

[Khunmark]

7 minutes ago, cowslip said:

TIt is common for people to cherry pick obnne or two motoring issues and put them forward as the solution to Thailand's problems

Yes, I agree, which is why I didn’t do that. An enduring feature of the deficit in understanding of road safety is ignorance of the contributing components. For example a trip around the car park at the local road traffic authority isn’t anywhere near the preparation required to drive out on the road without supervision.
 

A police force that only enforces the law on the wearing of helmets when they could be bothered is not going to increase participation in wearing helmets amongst motorcyclists. It won’t do this because it signals a tacit agreement between law enforcement and road users that it’s okay to disregard laws on safety most of the time. You can add a raft of road transgressions to the example, each one a contributing factor to the road toll.

‘Higher up in taxonomy of road safety are things controlled by government. These include but are not confined to; road design and maintenance, street signage and speed limit designations, lighting on roads, road surface, safety campaigns, attention to roadworthiness of vehicles and the proportion of vehicles fitted with the latest safety technology.

[cowslip]

the concept of blaming drivers is archaic and not actually helpful to road safety the Safe System is...

 

It's 5 tenets are as follows...

The 5 “E”s

The main pillars of the  Safe System can be defines as follows: - The 5 “E”s of road safety.

For over 3 decades Thailand has had various “Road Safety Action Plans” and has espoused the virtues of the 5 “E”s (it has to be said with little effect) ... but without them, Road Safety in Thailand is doomed.

 

1. Education

2. Enforcement

3. Engineering

4. Emergency

5. Evaluation

 

1. Education

This is fairly self-explanatory - people need to be told/shown how to drive and given the “tools” to share the road with other users – This goes way beyond a solitary driving test when people first start driving. UK had several government TV campaigns in the 60s and 70s. Clever well thought out ads with a bit of humour that weren’t condescending and helped to establish the country as a safe place to drive. (Do you remember the elephant in the fog?). Education of drivers continues throughout their driving life.

The first people who need to be educated in Thailand would be the police.

 

2. Enforcement

Again self-explanatory - but Thailand has the added problem of ingrained corruption, graft and bribery which impedes this, no matter how many laws are passed. The laws need to be reasonable applicable and equitably enforced too. The police and courts need to be trained to deal with it - probably constitutional reform.

 

3. Engineering: - most critics of (Thai) road safety usually ignore this aspect of road safety. It falls into 2 categories ….

 

A - Vehicle engineering - Safer car design and engineering: - car safety is both “passive” (seat belts, airbags and construction etc.) and “Active” (braking steering, handling, traction control etc.) these two are really interdependent now with so much computerised and hi-tech features on modern vehicles.

·      Anti-locking brakes (ABS)

·      Side impact bars

·      AVCSS – “Advanced Vehicle Control and Safety Systems"

·      Electronic stability control (ESC)

·      Traction control

·      Air-bags

·      More reliable engine, tyres and components

·      Vehicle dynamics in general (they vary from UK and Thailand)

 

Of course, roadworthiness checks are vital - but totally unenforced in Thailand.

 

  B - Road Engineering -

The design and construction on the roads, bridges, junctions, road surface, camber, drainage etc.

·      The use of barriers and median (e.g. Armco), the removal of roadside hazards - e.g. trees or boulders on the side and centre of roads. The clearing of billboards and vegetation that obscure drivers’ vision

·      Traffic - the use of lines, signs, bollards etc. etc. to dictate how and where the traffic flows and at what speed - virtually non-excitant in Thailand and seldom noticed by drivers in countries that make good use of it.

·      Better infrastructure and engineering

·      Better road surfaces

·      Better signage

·      More forgiving - a major reason for the high number of resulting deaths

·      Traffic calming

·      Shared space - keeping various road users apart is key to safety in some situations - if they are separated they can’t collide.

 

Like so many things on the roads in Thailand, the only reason that U-Turns happen is because the roads ALLOW it.... this is a design and engineering problem (and a cost reduction exercise),  not so much a driver problem.

 

4. Emergency

 

- What happens in the event of injury... this is a major factor in who lives or dies.

It has been well documented that the time between accident and getting treatment is crucial in the survival of RTI victims.

Treatment on the scene and reducing the time it takes to get the patient to hospital is vital. Thailand still has NO EFFECTIVE UNIVERSAL EMERGENCY SERVICE!! Ambulances have no standard equipment levels and what comes to your aid at an accident could be anything from a boy-racer pickup truck through van to a partially equipped ambulance. Paramedics are seldom fully trained.

 

5. Evaluation

 

- How do we ascertain if measures are effective and what new ideas can be implemented.

Most governments have agencies of some sort that after engaging any road scheme, whether it is construction or a safety campaign, review in detail every aspect of that project; effects on local population, environment, accident statistics etc. etc. Statistics are gathered and monitored and appropriate action taken. - Whereas Thailand may nominally have such bodies their effectiveness is just about zero. Road safety in Thailand is left largely to ill-thought out, baseless pronouncements made by members of the government with little better to do. Statistics collected in Thailand are incomplete, amateurish and don’t eve correlate with international conventions.

 

 

 

 

[cowslip]

"or example a trip around the car park at the local road traffic authority isn’t anywhere near the preparation required to drive out on the road without supervision."

 

This may be the case - but you would need to examine road accident figures vehicle types and age of drivers as well as their time since taking the. test/getting their licence - although it is not satisfactory, you will find you can't demonstrate that it accounts for a significant number of accidents.

Many people don;t rea;ise that Thai and UK have about the same number of collisions - yet Thailand has a much higher death rate - 

Most pople don't realise that the death rate is only one component of looking at road safety figures.

Other Statistics may include

Deaths per 1 million inhabitants

 Serious Injuries per 1 million inhabitants

 Minor injuries per 1 million inhabitants

Deaths per 10 billion vehicle-KM

Deaths per 100,000 registered vehicles

Registered vehicles per 1000 inhabitants

Of course Thai fares much better on the world tables in these figures

I sat sat in on both driver training and testing in Thailand....what amazed me was that the instructors gave instructions that were WRONG. My colleague was asked to leave the test site as he was laughing too much - however testing is bad universally especially amongst older drivers, who took very primitive tests with no theory and after several decag=des of driving think they are "experienced" when in rea;ity they are out of dte and just picked up loads of bad habits.

I used to drive international goods vehicles and the level of understanding amongst truck drivers was just embarrassingly low - yet they thought that by driving tens of thousands of miles per year they had "experience" - usually to dim to realise they didn't.

 

In the end the [public perception of road safety is down along with flat earth and fake moon landings