News Forum - American man faces dilemma as Thai girlfriend’s parents demand 1 million baht dowry

[Gord]

On 9/20/2023 at 10:55 AM, Khunmark said:

I don’t have a problem with dowry’s per se. However, the concept should be enshrined into law. We can be certain a woman who marries a man twice her age isn’t marrying him because he’s ‘hot’. The same applies everywhere in the world, there is a premium involved where the age difference is significant.

I would like to see a graduated scale of premiums. Example, If the couple are less than 10 years age difference- no premium. 1st premium comes in at 10-15 years age difference- premium; 250,000 baht. 15-20 years of age difference; 500,000 baht. 20-25 years difference -750,000 baht. And so on.

This  condition of marriage would benefit both parties as it would take the nasty surprise of whopping financial impost out the equation for the man and the woman could tailor her search for the ‘right man’ based on her specific financial needs,

The only thing certain in life is death.

Why do you guys think Thai ladies are amenable to Farang husbands?

For example, say a Thai girl at 16 is sold off to an older Thai man. For whatever reason the mother and grandmother feel this is best. The girl acquiesces and sacrifices finishing basic school to become a young mother and wife (but not LEGALLY! Isaan style Poo-Kann marriage)

Do you old farts remember being 16 years old? How was your decision making making strategy then and don't give me some BS. She had no idea that she would give this guy 2 kids, sacrifice any personal future, and subsequently watch him run around screwing women in any city his job took him too.

Girl finds out, leaves him. Now the guy, typical Thai man, gives nothing, does nothing, zero nada zilch to raise his 2 sons. How should she raise 2 sons and herself? Planting rice in someone else's fields?

Along comes some older farang who can offer her some stability, loyalty, financial support, etc. etc. Or she could go back to some Thai men who would maybe help her, maybe not drink and abuse her, maybe be a good father, maybe not cheat on her, a lot of maybes which, if the female population of Pattaya is any indication of, not a good option.

Personally i don't hold poor decisions against anyone because i have certainly had my share. It is how that person treats me when she is with me that determines my thoughts.

She could have a family of evil and yet be a sweet girl who loves her kids and granny. That's ok in my book. I am intelligent enough to detect patterns in individuals who are otherwise a mystery due to language and cultural differences.

If i don't have the resources to help i don't help, if i do then i can help out of good will or because she treats me like a king.

Who are you to judge?

 

[Khunmark]

1 hour ago, Gord said:

The only thing certain in life is death.

Why do you guys think Thai ladies are amenable to Farang husbands?

For example, say a Thai girl at 16 is sold off to an older Thai man. For whatever reason the mother and grandmother feel this is best. The girl acquiesces and sacrifices finishing basic school to become a young mother and wife (but not LEGALLY! Isaan style Poo-Kann marriage)

Do you old farts remember being 16 years old? How was your decision making making strategy then and don't give me some BS. She had no idea that she would give this guy 2 kids, sacrifice any personal future, and subsequently watch him run around screwing women in any city his job took him too.

Girl finds out, leaves him. Now the guy, typical Thai man, gives nothing, does nothing, zero nada zilch to raise his 2 sons. How should she raise 2 sons and herself? Planting rice in someone else's fields?

Along comes some older farang who can offer her some stability, loyalty, financial support, etc. etc. Or she could go back to some Thai men who would maybe help her, maybe not drink and abuse her, maybe be a good father, maybe not cheat on her, a lot of maybes which, if the female population of Pattaya is any indication of, not a good option.

Personally i don't hold poor decisions against anyone because i have certainly had my share. It is how that person treats me when she is with me that determines my thoughts.

She could have a family of evil and yet be a sweet girl who loves her kids and granny. That's ok in my book. I am intelligent enough to detect patterns in individuals who are otherwise a mystery due to language and cultural differences.

If i don't have the resources to help i don't help, if i do then i can help out of good will or because she treats me like a king.

Who are you to judge?

I see you’ve accidentally quoted me.

[warren]

Sinsod is the personal choice of all expats that decide to get married. Everyone has the own story and abilities if they want to pay or not.

I never could understand, if you are of limited financial means, how does a couple get to the point she does not understand this or is it a bunch of story telling along the way by the expat trying to get the young, beautiful girl?

However?

How did the prospective groom get to the point where he wants to get married and just now is finding this out? Been dating long enough to get married and never discussed this????? Or is it one big story telling after another?

My first impression is this expat does not have the money period. Yet, never told her this. Honestly, who lets money stand in the way of true love, forever after, unless it isn't?

Has he been telling her the truth all along that he is not rich and does not have this money, or has he been telling stories all along?

We just do not know. However, it is very odd to be with someone you want to marry and spend the rest of your life with and then this comes as a shock?

We all know most expats move to Thailand to live on the cheap. 

Ever think to tell the truth you don't have the money???????

If she loved you, why would she ditch you because you have no money?

What we do know is Thai women think all foreigners are rich and hiding money, even the English teachers!

They do not want to face the loss of Face and embarrassment when they find out the expat is broke. The loss of face is more important than people realize.

The pattern seems to be expats that have money, have no issue with sinsod, and those with no money have to ask themselves how they came to discuss marriage without having a clue what the bride was thinking?

Then instead of admitting they have no money, get on social media crying about sinsod.

When you think back to your first love as a teenager, you would do anything for the girl. Real love?

Thailand is a whole other ballgame, we know lots of Thai women get married for anything but love.

My god man, if you get to the marriage stage and have not discussed or have no clue about sinsod, I would be asking what kind of relationship do you really have?

It cannot be true love if Sinsod gets in the way.

Then the reality hits that NO, Mr. Expat, she is not in love with you. Maybe she is love with the idea she will have a better life marrying an expat. (However, not a broke one). and willing to make sacrifices.

The trade off between her youthful good looks and you has a cost. This is the way it is in Thailand. Not too many expats fall in the Brad Pitt looks category so everything becomes a trade off. Look in the mirror at yourself and look at her? A simpleton can figure that one out.

You have needs, she has needs. If both parties meet each other needs they can get married and live together for ever.

1,000,000 thb or $30,000 is probably the average price of a full scale wedding in the west. It is not asking much out of the ordinary; unless you are broke. And maybe that is how he got to this point, and ended up in Thailand in the first place?

All the under-funded expats always against sinsod, instead of just admitting they cannot afford it.

No relationship ever started on a lie, works out in the end. Plain and simple.

If you did not, cannot, or would not share your true financials with your bride to be, you just shouldn't be together.

In case your wondering, I did pay sinsod and followed all the traditional Thai wedding customs. I knew the importance of that to my extremely poor father in law. However, beknown to me, the money was returned to my wife. 

When you marry the right person, she will look out for you and if she doesn't probably better to go your own way. However, it really depends on how honest and trusting you have been with her since you started the relationship.

The whole traditional Thai wedding and reception was one of the best times of my life. Wouldn't trade it for anything.

Thailand, with its customs, language issues, etc. is not an easy place to make a go of it. Most have no way to make money like in the west. You have to find someone willing to accept you and what you do have. Or else it will never work in the long run.

There is no substitute for common sense.

17 years later, not one issue for me ever.

You expats all get to chose from the millions of women in Thailand.

If it doesn't work out, look in the mirror.

Your choice and no one else to blame, not her, not her parents, not sinsod.

 

 

 

 

[Marc26]

41 minutes ago, warren said:

Sinsod is the personal choice of all expats that decide to get married. Everyone has the own story and abilities if they want to pay or not.

I never could understand, if you are of limited financial means, how does a couple get to the point she does not understand this or is it a bunch of story telling along the way by the expat trying to get the young, beautiful girl?

However?

How did the prospective groom get to the point where he wants to get married and just now is finding this out? Been dating long enough to get married and never discussed this????? Or is it one big story telling after another?

My first impression is this expat does not have the money period. Yet, never told her this. Honestly, who lets money stand in the way of true love, forever after, unless it isn't?

Has he been telling her the truth all along that he is not rich and does not have this money, or has he been telling stories all along?

We just do not know. However, it is very odd to be with someone you want to marry and spend the rest of your life with and then this comes as a shock?

We all know most expats move to Thailand to live on the cheap. 

Ever think to tell the truth you don't have the money???????

If she loved you, why would she ditch you because you have no money?

What we do know is Thai women think all foreigners are rich and hiding money, even the English teachers!

They do not want to face the loss of Face and embarrassment when they find out the expat is broke. The loss of face is more important than people realize.

The pattern seems to be expats that have money, have no issue with sinsod, and those with no money have to ask themselves how they came to discuss marriage without having a clue what the bride was thinking?

Then instead of admitting they have no money, get on social media crying about sinsod.

When you think back to your first love as a teenager, you would do anything for the girl. Real love?

Thailand is a whole other ballgame, we know lots of Thai women get married for anything but love.

My god man, if you get to the marriage stage and have not discussed or have no clue about sinsod, I would be asking what kind of relationship do you really have?

It cannot be true love if Sinsod gets in the way.

Then the reality hits that NO, Mr. Expat, she is not in love with you. Maybe she is love with the idea she will have a better life marrying an expat. (However, not a broke one). and willing to make sacrifices.

The trade off between her youthful good looks and you has a cost. This is the way it is in Thailand. Not too many expats fall in the Brad Pitt looks category so everything becomes a trade off. Look in the mirror at yourself and look at her? A simpleton can figure that one out.

You have needs, she has needs. If both parties meet each other needs they can get married and live together for ever.

1,000,000 thb or $30,000 is probably the average price of a full scale wedding in the west. It is not asking much out of the ordinary; unless you are broke. And maybe that is how he got to this point, and ended up in Thailand in the first place?

All the under-funded expats always against sinsod, instead of just admitting they cannot afford it.

No relationship ever started on a lie, works out in the end. Plain and simple.

If you did not, cannot, or would not share your true financials with your bride to be, you just shouldn't be together.

In case your wondering, I did pay sinsod and followed all the traditional Thai wedding customs. I knew the importance of that to my extremely poor father in law. However, beknown to me, the money was returned to my wife. 

When you marry the right person, she will look out for you and if she doesn't probably better to go your own way. However, it really depends on how honest and trusting you have been with her since you started the relationship.

The whole traditional Thai wedding and reception was one of the best times of my life. Wouldn't trade it for anything.

Thailand, with its customs, language issues, etc. is not an easy place to make a go of it. Most have no way to make money like in the west. You have to find someone willing to accept you and what you do have. Or else it will never work in the long run.

There is no substitute for common sense.

17 years later, not one issue for me ever.

You expats all get to chose from the millions of women in Thailand.

If it doesn't work out, look in the mirror.

Your choice and no one else to blame, not her, not her parents, not sinsod.

You seem to think that because you paid it, you could afford it while others that objected can't afford it

 

You would have no clue if that's the case

 

As you said it's personal choice, so you don't know why others choose not to

 

 

Also, you talk about the money being returned 

 

For me, personally 

I am against that practice more than actually giving sin soht 

 

I find that classless, to be 100% honest

It goes against everything I believe in.

I'm not going to show off money, pretending that I am giving it or make a show that I can afford to give it

 

I would give sin soht before I'd ever just show off the money

 

By the way

My wife knows me well enough that she knows just "showing off" the money would be out of the question for me

 

But as you said, it's all personal choice 

[Marc26]

One aspect that hasn't been touched on is it does seem that guys meet a Thai girl and seem to get married very quick

 

So the family doesn't really know the guy all that well

 

So in a way, there is justification to ask for sin soht in that scenario because they don't really know the guy all that well

 

So they don't know his character and if he will take care of their daughter

 

 

Which also likely lines up historically 

Back when sin soht became a tradition, I'd imagine it was more arranged type marriages and the families didn't know each other as well

[warren]

20 hours ago, Marc26 said:

You seem to think that because you paid it, you could afford it while others that objected can't afford it

You would have no clue if that's the case

As you said it's personal choice, so you don't know why others choose not to

Also, you talk about the money being returned 

For me, personally 

I am against that practice more than actually giving sin soht 

I find that classless, to be 100% honest

It goes against everything I believe in.

I'm not going to show off money, pretending that I am giving it or make a show that I can afford to give it

I would give sin soht before I'd ever just show off the money

By the way

My wife knows me well enough that she knows just "showing off" the money would be out of the question for me

But as you said, it's all personal choice 

Of course an expat such as yourself would find such a long standing Thai custom as sin-sod classless.

Is that the only thing you find classless in Thailand or is there more? Or are the only classless cases things that affect your wallet?

Westerners will pay much more (unless you are skint) for a full blown western wedding.

Is that classless as well? To ensure the woman you want to spend the rest of your life with has HER one magical day she will remember her entire life over money? Is this day for her or for your wallet?

As I said, people can do what ever they want and that they do for all their OWN reasons.

For me, I wanted to follow the Thai tradition for all the right reasons, for my wife, family and the importance of that day to HER, all above money, so she would have a magical day she would remember forever.

You seem to have no clue what it is all about?

The custom is NOT to show you can afford it, it is to show value to the village for your wife.

To say it is classless when there is such a long standard tradition just shows to you be selfish.

By your own admission of " I'm not going to show off money, pretending that I am giving it or make a show that I can afford to give it", is an admission you have no idea what the custom is even about. It is not about YOU SHOWING OFF!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Marc26]

3 hours ago, warren said:

Of course an expat such as yourself would find such a long standing Thai custom as sin-sod classless.

Is that the only thing you find classless in Thailand or is there more? Or are the only classless cases things that affect your wallet?

Westerners will pay much more (unless you are skint) for a full blown western wedding.

Is that classless as well? To ensure the woman you want to spend the rest of your life with has HER one magical day she will remember her entire life over money? Is this day for her or for your wallet?

As I said, people can do what ever they want and that they do for all their OWN reasons.

For me, I wanted to follow the Thai tradition for all the right reasons, for my wife, family and the importance of that day to HER, all above money, so she would have a magical day she would remember forever.

You seem to have no clue what it is all about?

The custom is NOT to show you can afford it, it is to show value to the village for your wife.

To say it is classless when there is such a long standard tradition just shows to you be selfish.

By your own admission of " I'm not going to show off money, pretending that I am giving it or make a show that I can afford to give it", is an admission you have no idea what the custom is even about. It is not about YOU SHOWING OFF!

Uh oh....someone showed off his "money" and is all mad

 

I've been with my wife for 20 years 

Our son is graduating from Thammasat University and has a scholarship to do his Masters at Chulalongkorn 

He's always had great health insurance and has lived a far easier life than his Mom and Uncles ever did and when emergencies arise in her family, we take care of them

 

Those are things that I prioritize 

I can tell you worrying what the village thinks is so far down on the list

Well actually it's not on the list!

 

I don't need to and never needed to show value of anything to the village.

 

I love my wife's village. Love our close friends and family and met almost all nice people in the 19 years going to that village.. 

 

And I don't give one fc*k at all what any of them think my or my wife's value is

 

 

I don't think Sin Soht is "classless"

I respect the tradition and if you read any of my posts in this thread you would see that.

 

 

I do think it is "classless" to show off money, especially money you aren't actually given

 

If my son has to pay sin soht and needs money, I would likely help him out with that.

 

You do realize that when a farang marries a Thai lady, it is two cultures marrying one another? Not just the Thai culture 

I am against showing off any sort of money. I find the tradition crass.

There are traditions and norms in my family my wife doesn't care for.

We compromise....

 

Thai ladies are marrying a foreigner, they have to take their culture into consideration as well.

 

 

[Thaidup]

The young pretty women in South America are looking at this,and asking $30,000. WTF.

[Thaidup]

Me being an old GenZ, I can remember the saying back in my younger days "don't choose what you can't afford", This is a simple principle, if she is worth everything to you, than prove it. Works both ways.

Basically, if you can't afford what is expected, than just walk away. Or pay up and expect to keep paying similarly in the future.

It's simple, easy and straight forward, Yet in 2023, people all of a sudden find this hard to accept.

She lied, He was led to believe it was different, So forget it.He will find someone else later and she will too. 

[Gord]

On 9/20/2023 at 10:55 AM, Khunmark said:

We can be certain a woman who marries a man twice her age isn’t marrying him because he’s ‘hot’. The same applies everywhere in the world, there is a premium involved where the age difference is significant.

I didn't quote by accident. I was just commenting on this portion which i should have been more specific in regards to.

You did not specify what a significant age difference is in your esteemed opinion.

10? 15? 20? 25 years?

18 girl/28 man?

18 girl/38..48 man?

I may have gone off on a tangent when i quoted you before.

Please forgive my occasional rants.

 

 

[Marc26]

4 hours ago, Gord said:

I didn't quote by accident. I was just commenting on this portion which i should have been more specific in regards to.

You did not specify what a significant age difference is in your esteemed opinion.

10? 15? 20? 25 years?

18 girl/28 man?

18 girl/38..48 man?

I may have gone off on a tangent when i quoted you before.

Please forgive my occasional rants.

I think sometimes it's the age of the girl more so than the age gap

 

I know couples with age gaps in the 20 years but the women is in her 40's or late 30's 

And they work out very well

 

Even a guy in his 30's dating a girl in her early 20's may only be 10 years but the girl is just not mature enough 

 

Me personally 

I met my wife when I was 30 and she was 21yrs old

 

I wouldn't say I was super mature but a 21yr old Thai girl is like a teenager a lot of times

 

It's why I wasn't 100% serious with her until she got in her middle to later 20's 

 

 

So I really do think it's how old the girl is vs an age gap a lot of times