News Forum - Thai railways: Double-track upgrade paves the way for 120km/h passenger speeds

[Thaiger]

The Thai government is set to partially inaugurate the Map Kabao-Jira Junction double-track railway line next year. This Thai railway development will result in an increased speed limit for passenger trains, potentially enabling them to travel up to 120 kilometres per hour, a significant leap from the existing 50 kilometres per hour. Prime Minister Prayut … …

The story Thai railways: Double-track upgrade paves the way for 120km/h passenger speeds as seen on Thaiger News.

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[palooka]

On 8/18/2023 at 11:58 AM, Thaiger said:

This Thai railway development will result in an increased speed limit for passenger trains, potentially enabling them to travel up to 120 kilometres per hour, a significant leap from the existing 50 kilometres per hour.

That statement totally put me off travel by train in Thailand.

I want to go quietly in my sleep thanks.

[cowslip]

What I can't understand is why they haven't developed to BKK / Pattaya railway like that.

[ChrisS]

120 KPH slower than most developed countries but faster than I would like to travel on a Thai train I think,

[cowslip]

2 hours ago, ChrisS said:

120 KPH slower than most developed countries but faster than I would like to travel on a Thai train I think,

Let's hope they build their railways better than their roads.

[Pinetree]

8 hours ago, cowslip said:

Let's hope they build their railways better than their roads.

The major roads around Pattaya/Rayong/ Chon Buru are superb, concrete construct, often 5 lanes a side and brightly lit at night. 

[HiuMak]

On 8/18/2023 at 12:58 PM, Thaiger said:

The Thai government is set to partially inaugurate the Map Kabao-Jira Junction double-track railway line next year. This Thai railway development will result in an increased speed limit for passenger trains, potentially enabling them to travel up to 120 kilometres per hour, a significant leap from the existing 50 kilometres per hour.

Should be safer than driving.

[cowslip]

3 hours ago, Pinetree said:

The major roads around Pattaya/Rayong/ Chon Buru are superb, concrete construct, often 5 lanes a side and brightly lit at night. 

I'm sorry but you are totally misinformed. Road design, engineeringand construction in Thailand is absolutely DIRE!

They say you can tell how corrupt a countr=y is by the standard of  new roads. THis is basically because contractors take "short cuts" in construction like in sufficient hard core or substandard materials whilst still billing the authorities for the full amount.

the result is roads that are essentially unsafe.

Thailand's policy to road building is set firmly in the middle of the last century. National and local road planning in Thailand is based on a framework that has remained largely unchanged for decades, and originates from a time period when the focus was on designing for a general growth in private car traffic and freight traffic. Since then, the world has moved on. THere is now a growing focus on multi-modality, on sustainability and on recognising the role of roads in a wider urban and rural place-making and environmental and safety  contexts.

Safety is a secondary consideration.

THe design an types of lighting on new roads is in fact very poor the type of lighting, shadows and dark areas created are not thought out.

Many new roads have no hard shoulder facility or it is too narrow.

Central reservation barriers are not of correct materials or necessarily constructed to the right height.

THe roads are designed to be over-wide over-straight and encourage speed. THis with substandard surfaces, markings, signage and junction design leads to Thailand maintaining it's world leading status in deaths per 100 thousand.

Edited August 21, 2023 by cowslip

[Pinetree]

1 hour ago, cowslip said:

I'm sorry but you are totally misinformed. Road design, engineeringand construction in Thailand is absolutely DIRE!

They say you can tell how corrupt a countr=y is by the standard of  new roads. THis is basically because contractors take "short cuts" in construction like in sufficient hard core or substandard materials whilst still billing the authorities for the full amount.

the result is roads that are essentially unsafe.

Thailand's policy to road building is set firmly in the middle of the last century. National and local road planning in Thailand is based on a framework that has remained largely unchanged for decades, and originates from a time period when the focus was on designing for a general growth in private car traffic and freight traffic. Since then, the world has moved on. THere is now a growing focus on multi-modality, on sustainability and on recognising the role of roads in a wider urban and rural place-making and environmental and safety  contexts.

Safety is a secondary consideration.

THe design an types of lighting on new roads is in fact very poor the type of lighting, shadows and dark areas created are not thought out.

Many new roads have no hard shoulder facility or it is too narrow.

Central reservation barriers are not of correct materials or necessarily constructed to the right height.

THe roads are designed to be over-wide over-straight and encourage speed. THis with substandard surfaces, markings, signage and junction design leads to Thailand maintaining it's world leading status in deaths per 100 thousand.

BS, as usual from your posts.  UK and US are far worse in almost all aspects. 

[cowslip]

43 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

BS, as usual from your posts.  UK and US are far worse in almost all aspects. 

Notable only in your lack of any evidence or argument.

you might note too that Thai roads are build along US lines from the previous century which is one of the reasons that they are so bad.

you talk about "5 lanes" as if the is good! - 

The concerns about new Thai roads being too wide and too fast are valid. Wide roads can encourage speeding, and fast roads can be dangerous for pedestrians and cyclists. It is important to consider these factors when designing and constructing new roads.

 

As for the UK roads, my guess is you subscribe to the same hysteria about potholes as the rest of the media. In fact European roads have far better design qualities which is one major factor why EU death rates are so low

You might also note that the USA death rates in the US are around 13 per 100k pop, which is about 4 TIMES the UK rate. THe Thai rate is LESS than 3 times the US rate.

Edited August 21, 2023 by cowslip

[Marc26]

7 hours ago, cowslip said:

 

They say you can tell how corrupt a countr=y is by the standard of  new roads. THis is basically because contractors take "short cuts" in construction like in sufficient hard core or substandard materials whilst still billing the authorities for the full amount.

.

We were in Mexico and the new road in Tulum was already a pot hole mess

 

My wife said "same same Thailand, they take the money"  

[cowslip]

1 hour ago, Marc26 said:

We were in Mexico and the new road in Tulum was already a pot hole mess

My wife said "same same Thailand, they take the money"  

Italy is another case in point - Once drove from the French border to Rome and every exit on the motorway, we had to come off, go round a roundabout and get back on - they hadn't built any of the junction bridges. Civil engineering is a playground for the corrupt.

[TheDirtyDurian]

Fantastic highways in Saudi. 

3 empty lanes each way, trucks always stay on the right. 

Cruise control set to 145kph to not set the cameras off. 

The only place in the world I've been doing 140 and flashed my lights at police to make them move over to the right for going to slow...

[Pinetree]

6 hours ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

Fantastic highways in Saudi. 

3 empty lanes each way, trucks always stay on the right. 

Cruise control set to 145kph to not set the cameras off. 

The only place in the world I've been doing 140 and flashed my lights at police to make them move over to the right for going to slow...

Thats what happens when your Stone Age culture stop 50% of the population from driving by themselves. 

[TheDirtyDurian]

3 hours ago, Pinetree said:

Thats what happens when your Stone Age culture stop 50% of the population from driving by themselves. 

Dunno what you're talking about. If you're referring to women not being able to drive, you're about 5 years out of date!!

 

[Pinetree]

41 minutes ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

Dunno what you're talking about. If you're referring to women not being able to drive, you're about 5 years out of date!!

Oh no I'm not.  Just because their Feudal Lords passed a dictate that they can,  doesn't  mean their controlling men folk let them.  I know all about that twisted society.  My only regret in Gulf War 1 in 1992,  is that the West got involved at all and on the wrong side. Oil rules the World,  if it did not, and that idiot Lawrence hadn't intervened,  those people would be scratching a living in their sand pits. 

Bit off topic, but worth saying.  

[TheDirtyDurian]

25 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

Oh no I'm not.  Just because their Feudal Lords passed a dictate that they can,  doesn't  mean their controlling men folk let them.  I know all about that twisted society.  My only regret in Gulf War 1 in 1992,  is that the West got involved at all and on the wrong side. Oil rules the World,  if it did not, and that idiot Lawrence hadn't intervened,  those people would be scratching a living in their sand pits. 

Bit off topic, but worth saying.  

Well I think I can safely say that I've spent more time than you in the region in the years since 92, and more importantly most recently. 

I'm in the uk right now but I was just in Saudi a few weeks back. The streets are full of women driving. 

Also worth adding that the number of women in the workplace has more than doubled since the advent of the new reforming era. 

Things to be celebrated surely. 

[Pinetree]

16 minutes ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

Well I think I can safely say that I've spent more time than you in the region in the years since 92, and more importantly most recently. 

I'm in the uk right now but I was just in Saudi a few weeks back. The streets are full of women driving. 

Also worth adding that the number of women in the workplace has more than doubled since the advent of the new reforming era. 

Things to be celebrated surely. 

Quite a measured, polite reply to my rant, so thank you for that. 

[cowslip]

Although this is about railways the quality of Thai roads has come up. It should be noted that Saudi has reduced road deaths by a third in recent years. It is also worth noting that Saudi roads are again built in a way that encourages straight line speed. THey are however better build quality.

To achieve this they have introduced measures that Thailand still has to do. None of it involves "bad driver" - they are still their - it is how they mange the road including traffic engineers that has changed.

 

[McTavish]

1 hour ago, cowslip said:

Although this is about railways the quality of Thai roads has come up. It should be noted that Saudi has reduced road deaths by a third in recent years. It is also worth noting that Saudi roads are again built in a way that encourages straight line speed. THey are however better build quality.

To achieve this they have introduced measures that Thailand still has to do. None of it involves "bad driver" - they are still their - it is how they mange the road including traffic engineers that has changed.

Totally off topic and blowing crap out your rear orifice yet again.  You're a pathetic troll, go hide under a bridge.

[cowslip]

24 minutes ago, McTavish said:

Totally off topic and blowing crap out your rear orifice yet again.  You're a pathetic troll, go hide under a bridge.

Whilst I agree (and said) it is tangential to the OP, you don't seem to be following the discussion. I suspect you've missed out on the thread = or is that what you always say when you don't understand?

The quality of new railroads was being compared to road build quality.

Dirty Durian then entered a post about Saudi  roads.

I noted it is interesting as Saudi roads have improved their safety tremendously over the last 5 years.

in the end I'm hoping the railway will be better engineered than Thai roads. and the quality has not improve at all of the past decades. This suggests that perhaps we should be concerned about the build quality of Thai railways

 

[TheDirtyDurian]

1 hour ago, cowslip said:

Whilst I agree (and said) it is tangential to the OP, you don't seem to be following the discussion. I suspect you've missed out on the thread = or is that what you always say when you don't understand?

The quality of new railroads was being compared to road build quality.

Dirty Durian then entered a post about Saudi  roads.

I noted it is interesting as Saudi roads have improved their safety tremendously over the last 5 years.

in the end I'm hoping the railway will be better engineered than Thai roads. and the quality has not improve at all of the past decades. This suggests that perhaps we should be concerned about the build quality of Thai railways

Main reason that Saudi roads have become safer over the past five years is not to do with road build quality, but the proliferation of cameras that are absolutely everywhere these days. 

Not just speed cameras either but smart cameras that will catch you for things like using a phone, not wearing a seatbelt etc. 

Fines are steep, and there is no way to avoid paying as everything is on a nationwide online system connected to your ID card. 

 

 

[McTavish]

10 minutes ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

Main reason that Saudi roads have become safer over the past five years is not to do with road build quality, but the proliferation of cameras that are absolutely everywhere these days. 

Not just speed cameras either but smart cameras that will catch you for things like using a phone, not wearing a seatbelt etc. 

Fines are steep, and there is no way to avoid paying as everything is on a nationwide online system connected to your ID card. 

A correct assessment DD.

[TheDirtyDurian]

9 minutes ago, McTavish said:

A correct assessment DD.

Got hit with an $800 fine after going through a red light a few years back. After that I was extremely careful....

[cowslip]

26 minutes ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

Main reason that Saudi roads have become safer over the past five years is not to do with road build quality, but the proliferation of cameras that are absolutely everywhere these days. 

Not just speed cameras either but smart cameras that will catch you for things like using a phone, not wearing a seatbelt etc. 

Fines are steep, and there is no way to avoid paying as everything is on a nationwide online system connected to your ID card. 

It's part of a raft of changes they have brought in - single issues are never effective as you can see in Thailand.

Basically they have adopted the "safe System"  and this is what they have done

 

Although this is about railways the quality of Thai roads has come up and been compared to Saudi. It should be noted that Saudi which had a deplorable road death rate, has reduced road deaths by a third in recent years. It is also worth noting that Saudi roads are again built in a way that encourages straight line speed. They are however better build quality.

To achieve this they have introduced measures that Thailand still has to do…

They are collecting and analysing data for road safety

They have set up and are achieving key targets. The problem is seen as public health issue e,g, - the work of authorities across health, transport and environmental sectors

Promoting a culture of safe driving across the country.

Importantly, they have adopted the iRAP (the International Road Assessment Programme) to assess the safety of road infrastructure, with the aim of achieving a minimum 3-star rating for all roads.

There is now closer monitoring of road user behaviour to identify areas where additional reinforcement is needed. And this is followed up by enforcement.

They have trained over 400 ENGINEERS IN TRAFFIC SAFETY.

Signage  - installed 1,300 signs to warn drivers of dangers.

Improved lighting at intersections. – it is important that the right type of lighting is used

Enforcement

They’ve established an automated Traffic Enforcement System for serious violations. Such as speeding, crossing red-lights, the non-use of seat-belts and using mobile phones. Camera systems increased by 320%.

They’ve improved vehicle inspection notably trucks at weighing stations.

Post-crash response – something Thai is severely lacking in

Established  new centres of the National Centre for Security Operations.

Activated new air ambulance services.

Raising awareness of the importance of first aid.

Established a level I trauma centre in the King Saud medical city.

Analysis

A death registry system that includes more detailed data to analyze the causes of crashes and apply preventative measures.

Strengthening and coordinating data across Ministries. Involving doctors as lead certifiers in the registry system and providing them with training.

 

Apart from the introduction of female drivers, those driving in Saudi are still the same people yet they’re 30% less likely to die in a car

Think on Thailand