News Forum - Ganja and gravity: Naked German’s high-rise drama in Pattaya condo

[Clutch]

One other factoid that goes against long held beliefs on marijuana usage is that it is now scientifically suggested to be addictive. This is because the newer strains are insanely high in THC levels.

Legalization has allowed for medical studies to now be conducted that could not be performed prior to legalization.  

[HolyCowCm]

52 minutes ago, Clutch said:

Not sure what you are meaning by “it”.

I live in Colorado. I see first hand the negative effects that legalization has brought with it. Colorado is a tourist destination and so is Thailand.

Thats my direct experience and common knowledge to Coloradoans based on ample research by gov’t and private entities.

So, no, not blowing it way out of context.

The problem I see with Thailand is that they do not have the established metrics in place to make before and after comparisons. 
In the US, even minor traffic accidents, arrest records and hospitalizations are quite well documented and accessible for study.

Would you describe yourself as a consumer of marijuana products? I think that typically skews a persons perception.

Haha

Yes I am a partaker in it and have been from my teen years in high school, but I keep it above board in check and actually never let anything take me down or become a blight to society as you are referring to. If you ask me it is the hard drugs that have done the damage in the USA. I used to be from California decades ago, but have seen what has happened there from visiting. There is more failure due to other issues than legal pot sales. Failure of goverment, and you can equivalate that to republican and democrat BS. They actually want the vast masjority to be poor lower class with very little middle and a small minority of upper wealth controlling everything. Well at least to me it seems to point that way as keeping the work force so overworked or they fall out, so this goes all the way down to the local elected city folks have let the country down and the very wealthy instigating many controlling the heard plans. Well, at least it looks that way to me from the outside living here looking in to what a c r a p hole the US has become.

[Pinetree]

I have never partaken of anything  but a doctors prescription drug for a specific medical reason. A big part of the reason for that is my long career in Military and Civil aviation from quite young, where the use of stuff like weed was, and rightly still is, forbidden by regulation. It may be some indication that, at least in aviation, drugs and alcohol are treated in the same way, that is they are forbidden by law, due to their negative impacts of thinking, reasoning, decision making, perception,  memory and motor skills. Says it all really.  I guess no harm done if you are lounging about at home, but wandering about in the general population, maybe not so clever.  However, the contradiction of  people's and government's  attitude to alcohol, as opposed to weed,  is unfathomable.  I would suggest that alcohol use is far more dangerous to individuals and society than weed ever could be.   

[Pinetree]

1 hour ago, HolyCowCm said:

Sometimes I tend to agree, but over 20yrs ago I looked a white kid in his later twenties on top of a billboared near the old closed mall that was going to jump. Didn't wait around as the crowd gathered, but saw the news he certainly did jump and I sort of felt bad for the kid. He died.

One big thing I have learnt in my decades on the Earth, is that there are very, very  few occasions where you take direct responsibility for the actions or fate of others, or allow not doing so to negatively impact your own mental well being.  

[HolyCowCm]

17 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

I have never partaken of anything  but a doctors prescription drug for a specific medical reason. A big part of the reason for that is my long career in Military and Civil aviation from quite young, where the use of stuff like weed was, and rightly still is, forbidden by regulation. It may be some indication that, at least in aviation, drugs and alcohol are treated in the same way, that is they are forbidden by law, due to their negative impacts of thinking, reasoning, decision making, perception,  memory and motor skills. Says it all really.  I guess no harm done if you are lounging about at home, but wandering about in the general population, maybe not so clever.  However, the contradiction of  people's and government's  attitude to alcohol, as opposed to weed,  is unfathomable.  I would suggest that alcohol use is far more dangerous to individuals and society than weed ever could be.   

There is a time and place for having fun. We definetely do not want our pilots partaking when on duty or having a hangover lasting effect when going back to work. Wasn't it years ago in the military that speed was openly given to certain personel for strenght and longer time performance doing the job to keep them awake?

As for out in public, if in an area that has bars and drinkers then no foul. I like to drink at the beach and swim sometimes, and when in Bangkok will be out in public in the bar areas, but such as going on a sky train or inot a mall or super market then the answer is no way as I am out of place. If have work there is also no way I touch anything until after at th right time, but everyday is a definite no as don't want to be like that at home. Now vacation is a different story, and yes, if I drink, I partake.. 

[Clutch]

29 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

I have never partaken of anything  but a doctors prescription drug for a specific medical reason. A big part of the reason for that is my long career in Military and Civil aviation from quite young, where the use of stuff like weed was, and rightly still is, forbidden by regulation. It may be some indication that, at least in aviation, drugs and alcohol are treated in the same way, that is they are forbidden by law, due to their negative impacts of thinking, reasoning, decision making, perception,  memory and motor skills. Says it all really.  I guess no harm done if you are lounging about at home, but wandering about in the general population, maybe not so clever.  However, the contradiction of  people's and government's  attitude to alcohol, as opposed to weed,  is unfathomable.  I would suggest that alcohol use is far more dangerous to individuals and society than weed ever could be.   

Great post.

What studies are finding in States that have legalized MJ is that these very high content strains of THC are equal to the long-proven negative effects of alcohol on the human reflexes & motor skills.

Not sure if you are aware but THC levels through the 1980’s were typically <10 and in the US, they now average 30.

So they now are as dangerous as alcohol.

Another factor is people in the US now treat MJ as if it’s like caffeine rather than alcohol.

People get high on the morning drive to work. They get high on their breaks. They get high with their infants in the car. These are people who would never consider doing any Of those things while consuming alcohol.

Listen, I get it, pot has barely been legal here 3 years. You have not experienced what is a daily occurrence in Colorado where you pull up to a red light on the morning commute to work and 25% of the cars have billowing clouds of smoke being blown out the driver side window.

You are, ofcourse, titled to your own opinion and your own experience but what I am describing is factual and there is now research available online that supports what I say if you are bored enough to google it.

Will it happen here with legalization?

I don’t see any indicators that suggest it won’t since Driving Under the Influence of Alcohol occurs here at much higher rates than it does in the USA where it is aggressively enforced.

 

[Clutch]

46 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

is my long career in Military and Civil aviation from quite young,

I thought as much reading through your no-nonsense level-headed posts.

[Pinetree]

11 minutes ago, Clutch said:

Great post.

What studies are finding in States that have legalized MJ is that these very high content strains of THC are equal to the long-proven negative effects of alcohol on the human reflexes & motor skills.

Not sure if you are aware but THC levels through the 1980’s were typically <10 and in the US, they now average 30.

So they now are as dangerous as alcohol.

Another factor is people in the US now treat MJ as if it’s like caffeine rather than alcohol.

People get high on the morning drive to work. They get high on their breaks. They get high with their infants in the car. These are people who would never consider doing any Of those things while consuming alcohol.

Listen, I get it, pot has barely been legal here 3 years. You have not experienced what is a daily occurrence in Colorado where you pull up to a red light on the morning commute to work and 25% of the cars have billowing clouds of smoke being blown out the driver side window.

You are, ofcourse, titled to your own opinion and your own experience but what I am describing is factual and there is now research available online that supports what I say if you are bored enough to google it.

Will it happen here with legalization?

I don’t see any indicators that suggest it won’t since Driving Under the Influence of Alcohol occurs here at much higher rates than it does in the USA where it is aggressively enforced.

I value my own life, let alone any passengers I may have had, to go anywhere close to the regulation limits for alcohol when flying.  My own rule was no alcohol, 24 hours before flying.  I have given up the stuff now, so its much easier, no will power required. 

[Clutch]

43 minutes ago, HolyCowCm said:

Wasn't it years ago in the military that speed was openly given to certain personel for strenght and longer time performance doing the job to keep them awake?

In the late 70’s and thru the 80’s, It became common in the Navy aboard ships to turn a blind eye to meth use. It was not “openly given” by Command; however, a “Hear No Evil, See No Evil” attitude by Command was SOP and violators almost never saw a Court-Martial or even Non-Judicial Punishment.

The performance enhancement benefits of Meth (Speed) during drills and General Quarters were well recognized.

On the other hand, pot & hallucinogens were guaranteed brig time and a Bad Conduct Discharge. 
 

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Clutch

[HolyCowCm]

16 minutes ago, Clutch said:

Listen, I get it, pot has barely been legal here 3 years. You have not experienced what is a daily occurrence in Colorado where you pull up to a red light on the morning commute to work and 25% of the cars have billowing clouds of smoke being blown out the driver side window.

You are, ofcourse, titled to your own opinion and your own experience but what I am describing is factual and there is now research available online that supports what I say if you are bored enough to google it.

Ok, did not know it was that off the wall for Colorado. Several years back I took my kids to the Hollywood Star Walk of fame, and even though I am pro weed I wasn't excatly pro-blowing it everywhere with familes around as they were. My American Thai kids were probably belwo - mid teens, and at first I thought smeelling it was cool, but then it was all too much on the street. I also did look up some study reports your suggested they have on file for Colorado. Ok, if the reports suggest an increase but that still doesn't encompass the whole. Only graphs and occurences increased. But not syaing you are wrong, just saying it may just be something that overstepped it's line. Strong souped up weed with high high THC content no, even back in my Californian days it was already strong enough when crystals were separated from the flower. I think this is the culprit as in way too strong weed, and even vaping has gotten a bit over the control for young people, and that is even here as well. High school kids vaping like no tomorrow here now, and to me this may be a problem down the road, but onje needs to control thir own actions. So I in particualr don't demonize weed, it is more the person overstepping the boundaries.

[HolyCowCm]

12 minutes ago, Clutch said:

In the late 70’s and thru the 80’s, It became common in the Navy aboard ships to turn a blind eye to meth use. It was not “openly given” by Command; however, a “Hear No Evil, See No Evil” attitude by Command was SOP and violators almost never saw a Court-Martial or even Non-Judicial Punishment.

The performance enhancement benefits of Meth (Speed) during drills and General Quarters were well recognized.

On the other hand, pot & hallucinogens were guaranteed brig time and a Bad Conduct Discharge. 
 

Yeah and opium or opium based drugs in wartime or peace sweeping monitoring time created strenght and bravery. But in the end only created addicted drug addicts.

[TheDirtyDurian]

19 hours ago, Clutch said:

Better to have strong enforcement against all of these drugs that destroy a society.

Singapore.

MidEast.

Prohibition isn't working in the Middle East. Daily reports of massive seizures of capatagon aka amphetamine in Saudi. 

Syria is manufacturing the drug and basically acts like a narco state. 

[Clutch]

2 hours ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

Prohibition isn't working in the Middle East. Daily reports of massive seizures of capatagon aka amphetamine in Saudi. 

Syria is manufacturing the drug and basically acts like a narco state. 

I had no idea.

Amazing.

https://www.thenationalnews.com/mena/captagon-crisis/2021/10/25/what-is-captagon-the-drug-sweeping-the-middle-east/

Edited August 5, 2023 by Clutch

[Saunk]

21 hours ago, Karolyn said:

Pot causes no harm in the Netherlands. Where there is a strong policy against hard drugs, and less explicable, dance drugs. 

If it keeps people away from alcohol and tobacco, it has to be good.

How about no intoxicants at all? I don't know why people feel the need to put all this sh!t in their body.  If life is so unenjoyable that you always needed to be under the effect of something, perhaps there's a deeper problem that intoxicants won't solve.  Living a healthy lifestyle: exercise, long daily walks, eating healthy will leave you abhorring intoxicants.

[Grumpish]

4 hours ago, Saunk said:

How about no intoxicants at all? I don't know why people feel the need to put all this sh!t in their body.  If life is so unenjoyable that you always needed to be under the effect of something, perhaps there's a deeper problem that intoxicants won't solve.  Living a healthy lifestyle: exercise, long daily walks, eating healthy will leave you abhorring intoxicants.

Might work for you - for a lot of others that is more like the "enjoying yourself is sinful and will send you straight to Hell" prohibition that seems to be built into most religions. As with all things, in moderation is what works best.

[Karolyn]

13 hours ago, HolyCowCm said:

Yeah and opium or opium based drugs in wartime or peace sweeping monitoring time created strenght and bravery. But in the end only created addicted drug addicts.

Interesting because people in the Andes regularly consume coca (unrefined into cocaine) in various forms. I accidentally found a few cups of coca tea, cured my phobia of heights. So the 'lite' forms of hard drugs, do have a positive effect. And didn't turn me into an addict.

[Marc26]

On 8/4/2023 at 4:33 PM, PATRIQUE said:

Never drug up when you are uncomfortable - only when you are happy

 

That is great Statement!

 

I said that to a client I have(we good friends)

.I said I stopped smoking weed from about 30-45yrs old

 

I was trying to get through life/career and if I smoked I'd "think too much "

 

Once I had life figured out (best that I could) I could smoke and enjoy 

[Marc26]

18 hours ago, Clutch said:

Not sure what you are meaning by “it”.

I live in Colorado. I see first hand the negative effects that legalization has brought with it. Colorado is a tourist destination and so is Thailand.

Thats my direct experience and common knowledge to Coloradoans based on ample research by gov’t and private entities.

So, no, not blowing it way out of context.

The problem I see with Thailand is that they do not have the established metrics in place to make before and after comparisons. 
In the US, even minor traffic accidents, arrest records and hospitalizations are quite well documented and accessible for study.

Would you describe yourself as a consumer of marijuana products? I think that typically skews a persons perception.

Haha

I also in the camp that you are blowing things out of proportion 

 

But you certainly have your experiences

 

But I'd put up the millions upon millions of functioning every day week smokers over the last 60+ years that show it isn't the destructive drug you suggest 

 

And anyone that has gone on to harder drugs was inclined to, IMO

[TWS60]

Severe depression, anxiety, etc., is a powerful thing on its own.  Not uncommon for sufferers to use alcohol, drugs, sleep aides, etc., to mask/dampen the symptoms.  It's exactly the wrong thing to do according to every on-line resource, but feels like a welcome relief in the moment, albeit temporary, from the pervasive, negative thoughts about problem(s) invading the mind in unrelenting waves. 

Don't know him obviously, or the nature of his legal trouble(s), but among possibilities is the erosion or destruction of his financial situation and thus, the prospect of a very different future for him and his wife.  That be a tough row to hoe, in particular at a modestly advanced age when recovering from the loss is a tough proposition. 

Edited August 6, 2023 by TWS60

[Clutch]

8 hours ago, Marc26 said:

But I'd put up the millions upon millions of functioning every day week smokers over the last 60+ years that show it isn't the destructive drug you suggest 

I already mentioned the fact THC levels are now 3-6 times stronger than they were 30 years ago.

Also, over the vast majority of those 60+ years, weed was illegal so users had to practice some caution in using it.

Colorado has always been a pro-cannabis locale since the 60’s. It is a State that people move to in order to “recreate”. Outdoor activities have always gone hand in hand with getting stoned.

What has been found is that legalizing it has removed the legal barriers that used to motivate stoners to use discretion. Nobody wanted to be arrested and have a record that could prevent employment.

All that changed with legalization. Police no longer make arrests when a guy is getting stoned at a stoplight, or smoking a joint in public, and employers no longer drug test so there is no risk of losing a job with a “Hot” Piss test. Then the greater accessibility to underage kids has increased significantly and it will be a decade before the long-term affects on their health are understood.

You can believe what you want to believe, ofcourse, but the difference is you are making assumptions if you don’t experience it. Your loved ones are not sharing the roadway with drivers who make right hand turns across 3 lanes of traffic from the left lane. 
 

Colorado collects abundant data and they review the data and they compare how multiple metrics have changed since legalization. Those studies are then evaluated and funding is redirected to mitigate the negative effects on the community.

All I am saying is that Thailand might not be set up for similar pro-active safeguards.

Do you guys walk around BKK much? I do and the amount of weed you can smell in the street is quite a change from 4 years ago. 
In Thailands favor, most tourists take Taxis rather than rent cars like in Colorado so stoned (impaired) tourists are not as dangerous to the greater community here.

But it’s going to be a negative on Thai kids development. See if I am right in 10 years. I am amazed at how much Thai youth have abandoned any and all boundaries in the past 20 years. 

Edited August 6, 2023 by Clutch

[Clutch]

1 hour ago, TWS60 said:

Severe depression, anxiety, etc., is a powerful thing on its own.  Not uncommon for sufferers to use alcohol, drugs, sleep aides, etc., to mask/dampen the symptoms.  It's exactly the wrong thing to do according to every on-line resource, but feels like a welcome relief in the moment, albeit temporary, from the pervasive, negative thoughts about problem(s) invading the mind in unrelenting waves. 

Don't know him obviously, or the nature of his legal trouble(s), but among possibilities is the erosion or destruction of his financial situation and thus, the prospect of a very different future for him and his wife.  That be a tough row to hoe, in particular at a modestly advanced age when recovering from the loss is a tough proposition. 

Spot On observations on self-medicating.

[Clutch]

Don’t take my word for it. Read what the NIH has to say:

“Many people who have voted for legalization [In Colorado] thought they were talking about the marijuana of the 1960s to 1980s when the THC content was less than 2%.The flower or leaves that are generally smoked or vaped are only one formulation. We now have concentrated THC products such as oil, shatter, dab, and edibles that have been able to get the THC concentration upwards of 95%.” 

Link:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6312155/

Edited August 6, 2023 by Clutch

[Clutch]

Why won’t this happen in Thailand?

 

[HolyCowCm]

44 minutes ago, Clutch said:

Why won’t this happen in Thailand?

When I was a kid just starting to dabble there was stuff like Panama red, Thai stick and then Mexican and dirt weed. Panama red and the Thai stick (when it was real) got you overly buzzed and you had to wait it out to come down for the enjoyable part. Then a little after came green bud and then even that it got refined and stronger. I had some oil in the Philiphines a few years back that dropped me. Too hard. The weed here in Thailand comes in all levels but it isn't all that bad or strong, and I have tried quite a lot of the varieties. I really think vaping and excessice aclohol are the biggest probelms fo the youth here. And I also think anyone who smokes while drinking alcohol better watch out in th mixing. For me no problem as I am well seasoned, but I can also say I am glad that my kids don't hardly ever ever drink and don't or will never ever vape or smoke weed. Better for them and their life at this point as it could take them in a negative direction. Like Marc26 said, he stopped for a bunch of years to figure out his direction in lfe, and then after he figured that out he started back up.

I really don't think it is going to create a fall out epidemic here.

[Grumpish]

1 hour ago, Clutch said:

Don’t take my word for it. Read what the NIH has to say:

“Many people who have voted for legalization [In Colorado] thought they were talking about the marijuana of the 1960s to 1980s when the THC content was less than 2%.The flower or leaves that are generally smoked or vaped are only one formulation. We now have concentrated THC products such as oil, shatter, dab, and edibles that have been able to get the THC concentration upwards of 95%.” 

Link:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6312155/

When I was young it was mainly hashish (the gold standard back then, at least in the UK, was Afghan Black), which is pretty much 100% THC. But it was always just a small amount in with the tobacco, so it probably was usually less than a 5% mix that was being smoked. I didn't partake for a very long time - working in roles where I could be, and occasionally was, subject to random drug tests - and I find now that the 30% THC varieties that seem to make up most of the market way too much, leaving me feeling unpleasantly buzzy until the first effects wear off. Doesn't stop me though, I just go for the lower yield varieties and cut it with something else that is smoke-able. Maybe some control on the percentage is needed, plus making its use to be considered to be the same as alcohol - no alcohol (as in no drinking on the street) zones are common in shopping areas the UK, no tolerance for driving under the influence, that kind of thing.