News Forum - Thai democracy at risk following Pheu Thai’s exclusion of MFP in coalition

[Pinetree]

  On 8/9/2023 at 2:27 AM, Vigo said:

No need to colonize when the target capitulates and is enslaved. The Japanese needed to cross Thailand to  get to Burma, so Japan invaded Thailand. There was a brief clash, resulting in Thailand's surrender and it's face saving agreement to ally itself with Japan. During WWII, Thailand took its orders from Japan. It was a defacto vassal state, a position lower than a colony, because it had no rights or say in the Japanese dictates.   The sad aspect is that 100 or so Thais died defending against the invasion, are all but forgotten by Thailand's history books and its people.

During the period of Japanese control, Thailand was obliged to provide raw materials and more importantly, labour to the Japanese war machine. The Thai workers were not volunteers, but were typical slave labour used by the Japanese.  This was a  status worse than that of a colonization.

Yes, there can be nuances in Thai politics, but typically, it is the jackboot of brutality. The most  horrific example of this is the Thammasat massacre of 40 students and the  mass torture, and abuse of thousands of others at the the time. No nuance there.  No nuance in the yellow shirt thuggery period either.

PT's machinations are typical of his arrogant and entitled leadership. Its core group are as greedy as those it opposes. The MF group had a mandate. The MF represents the entrepreneurs, the educated, and the motivated young.  This is the demographic that powers Thailand, that generates the tax revenues, that innovates. They can afford to wait a few years more, and when they get to power, the PT power base that relied on  cash subsidies to power their vote will get a lesson in agrarian reform.

Expand  

Absolutely right, and something the Thai's never acknowledge. 

[BigHewer]

Several posts and their replies removed. Discussion of lese majeste laws not permitted.
 

Moderator

[Marc26]

  On 8/8/2023 at 10:56 PM, Thaidup said:

How long have you lived here cowslip? how many conversations with your Thai wife have you had re Thai politics? Remember the red pieces of cloth hanging off the gates and fences?

Expand  

Not having a go at your wife at all

But unless she is a professor of Asian political science at a University in Japan(outside of Thailand) I don't know how much stock I'd put into what anyone's Thai wife has to say about politics

I haven't met many Thais that even care to know enough about their own politics to even have a conversation( and that absolutely means my wife as well)

As I said above, that is all by design. The powers to be designed it that way............

But I actually do agree with you that Thailand's political scene isn't as straight an arrow as we know in the West(are any Asian country's?)

I was hoping this screw job would shale the tree more, but looks like same old, same old

[Thaidup]

  On 8/9/2023 at 3:27 PM, Marc26 said:

Not having a go at your wife at all

I haven't met many Thais that even care to know enough about their own politics to even have a conversation( and that absolutely means my wife as well)

As I said above, that is all by design. The powers to be designed it that way............

But I actually do agree with you that Thailand's political scene isn't as straight an arrow as we know in the West(are any Asian country's?)

I was hoping this screw job would shale the tree more, but looks like same old, same old

Expand  

Ok, so now you are describing Thai politics,( itiBut unless she is a professor of Asian political science at a University in Japan(outside of Thailand) I don't know how much stock I'd put into what anyone's Thai wife has to say about polcs)

The "western point of view" is that Thai's are too dumb to understand politics, and they need to do what American style of politics is.?

[Marc26]

  On 8/12/2023 at 4:01 PM, Thaidup said:

Ok, so now you are describing Thai politics,( itiBut unless she is a professor of Asian political science at a University in Japan(outside of Thailand) I don't know how much stock I'd put into what anyone's Thai wife has to say about polcs)

The "western point of view" is that Thai's are too dumb to understand politics, and they need to do what American style of politics is.?

Expand  

Have you ever tried to have an in depth conversation with a Thai about their politics or anything for that matter??

I actually think Thai people are very intelligent in their own way

But their education system was designed to make them lack curiosity and to not question anything

So that leads to a lack of depth in their overall knowledge of things and the world

The only in depth conversations I have had with Thais are Thais that have gone to International schools and have a different mindset than Thais taught in public schools

[Thaidup]

  On 8/9/2023 at 2:27 AM, Vigo said:

No need to colonize when the target capitulates and is enslaved. The Japanese needed to cross Thailand to  get to Burma, so Japan invaded Thailand. There was a brief clash, resulting in Thailand's surrender and it's face saving agreement to ally itself with Japan. During WWII, Thailand took its orders from Japan. It was a defacto vassal state, a position lower than a colony, because it had no rights or say in the Japanese dictates.   The sad aspect is that 100 or so Thais died defending against the invasion, are all but forgotten by Thailand's history books and its people.

During the period of Japanese control, Thailand was obliged to provide raw materials and more importantly, labour to the Japanese war machine. The Thai workers were not volunteers, but were typical slave labour used by the Japanese.  This was a  status worse than that of a colonization.

Yes, there can be nuances in Thai politics, but typically, it is the jackboot of brutality. The most  horrific example of this is the Thammasat massacre of 40 students and the  mass torture, and abuse of thousands of others at the the time. No nuance there.  No nuance in the yellow shirt thuggery period either.

PT's machinations are typical of his arrogant and entitled leadership. Its core group are as greedy as those it opposes. The MF group had a mandate. The MF represents the entrepreneurs, the educated, and the motivated young.  This is the demographic that powers Thailand, that generates the tax revenues, that innovates. They can afford to wait a few years more, and when they get to power, the PT power base that relied on  cash subsidies to power their vote will get a lesson in agrarian reform.

Expand  

Invaded, may be a more apt description. similar to Russia invading Ukraine? but with less death of civillions no?

[Marc26]

^ Anecdotal but I think it sums up Thais very well 

Our niece graduated Chulalongkorn and got an engineering job at a Japanese multinational firm in Thailand 

When I saw her last I was peppering her with questions on what she does, what her work day is like.

Because I'm generally interested and excited for her

Her Mom has zero idea what she does. When I was asking my questions her Mom and my wife said along the lines "farang ask to many questions"

They just want to know she's making money and having a good life.

They have zero curiosity what their daughter does.....

My stepson goes to Thammasat University and is graduating this year

My wife is over the moon that her son goes to a good University, something she could never dreamed of(And that she can brag)

Yet she has no care to actually know what he's doing there 

It's all by design 

So they have a disposition of fealty 

[Marc26]

  On 8/12/2023 at 4:16 PM, Thaidup said:

Invaded, may be a more apt description. similar to Russia invading Ukraine? but with less death of civillions no?

Expand  

I think Thailand was smart to act in the way they did

But to champion it as some triumph that they fought back Colonists to keep their culture is just not really reality 

They acquiesced for strategic purposes 

Again, very smart on their part and they deserve a bit of credit for that 

[Thaidup]

  On 8/12/2023 at 4:19 PM, Marc26 said:

They acquiesced for strategic purposes 

Expand  

At last, someone here can understand that going out guns a blazing is not always the best solution to problem.

[cowslip]

  On 8/12/2023 at 4:17 PM, Marc26 said:

So they have a disposition of fealty 

Expand  

How so?

[Thaidup]

  On 8/12/2023 at 4:10 PM, Marc26 said:

Have you ever tried to have an in depth conversation with a Thai about their politics or anything for that matter??

I actually think Thai people are very intelligent in their own way

But their education system was designed to make them lack curiosity and to not question anything

So that leads to a lack of depth in their overall knowledge of things and the world

The only in depth conversations I have had with Thais are Thais that have gone to International schools and have a different mindset than Thais taught in public schools

Expand  

FFS Marc, you just don't get it. Come and live here as a retireee, not a sex tourist , you will quickly see how the "conservative" life of taking care of family first works here and how politics revolves around how well a person can convince voters of how they will be taken care of first, especially if you can donate.

[Marc26]

  On 8/12/2023 at 6:04 PM, Thaidup said:

FFS Marc, you just don't get it. Come and live here as a retireee, not a sex tourist , you will quickly see how the "conservative" life of taking care of family first works here and how politics revolves around how well a person can convince voters of how they will be taken care of first, especially if you can donate.

Expand  

I know farangs love to dick measure who knows more about Thailand 

I've been with my wife for 20 years

The vast majority of my time is spent with Thais, both in Canada and in Thailand 

And if we want to dick measure 

Being in Canada I am exposed to Thais from all different backgrounds vs some farang who lives in the village and is exposed to one demographic 

PS....You literally did not answer my question 

[Marc26]

  On 8/12/2023 at 4:45 PM, cowslip said:

How so?

Expand  

Thais are taught not to question any sort of authority 

If some quack doctor gives you a shitty diagnosis, don't question it

Some idiot teacher doesn't know their ass from their elbow, don't question them

They are discouraged to have any sort of curiosity

It's all by design 

So that they don't question living in a poor country ruled by billionaires 

[Marc26]

  On 8/12/2023 at 6:04 PM, Thaidup said:

FFS Marc, you just don't get it. Come and live here as a retireee, 

Expand  

Says the person who is obsessed with America politics and probably has never stepped foot in the county.   5555

Love your logic.   

[PATRIQUE]

1 of the common cultural heritages of

Thais and foreigners

dick measurement

[cowslip]

  On 8/12/2023 at 10:05 PM, Marc26 said:

Thais are taught not to question any sort of authority 

If some quack doctor gives you a shitty diagnosis, don't question it

Some idiot teacher doesn't know their ass from their elbow, don't question them

They are discouraged to have any sort of curiosity

It's all by design 

So that they don't question living in a poor country ruled by billionaires 

Expand  

Yes I would agree with that - though not as a generalisation any more - the country has changed in the past years  obviously voted against this status quo in huge numbers.

I agree that the powers that be are increasingly worried about this and use the crazy constitution (and LM laws) as tools of control.

I suppose the use of fealty put me off but it makes more sense when you consider the roots seem to be in "Sakdina", vestiges of which still seem to linger on and that was indeed a system based on fealty.

As Einstein said: - “Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth”

Edited August 13, 2023 by cowslip

[TheDirtyDurian]

  On 8/12/2023 at 6:04 PM, Thaidup said:

FFS Marc, you just don't get it. Come and live here as a retireee, not a sex tourist , you will quickly see how the "conservative" life of taking care of family first works here and how politics revolves around how well a person can convince voters of how they will be taken care of first, especially if you can donate.

Expand  

Because all retirees living in a village in Nakhon Nowhere are experts in everything Thai? 

[cowslip]

I would certainly agree that people can live for years in Thailand and for one reason or another learn very little about the kingdom itself.

I'd say the average retiree married to a Thai woman has very little chance of working out much about the country.

a "Thai wife" is a highly questionable source of material and often, the older foreign men have little or no critical thinking abilities.... they mistake personal experience for an overview of the entire country and fail to recognise the limitations of one Thai person as a source of information about Thailand.

Edited August 13, 2023 by cowslip

[TheDirtyDurian]

  On 8/12/2023 at 11:09 PM, PATRIQUE said:

1 of the common cultural heritages of

Thais and foreigners

dick measurement

Expand  

Nothing worse than a foreigner who claims to know more about a place just through having been there, or who assumes to know everything about a person having never met them. 

Having said that, met plenty of Thais who know absolutely nothing about their own country too! 

[TheDirtyDurian]

  On 8/13/2023 at 7:04 AM, cowslip said:

I would certainly agree that people can live for years in Thailand and for one reason or another learn very little about the kingdom itself.

I'd say the average retiree married to a Thai woman has very little chance of working out much about the country.

a "Thai wife" is a highly questionable source of material and often, the older foreign men have little or no critical thinking abilities.... they mistake personal experience for an overview of the entire country and fail to recognise the limitations of one Thai person as a source of information about Thailand.

Expand  

My wife tell me you wrong though. 

[cowslip]

  On 8/13/2023 at 7:09 AM, TheDirtyDurian said:

My wife tell me you wrong though. 

Expand  

QED

[TheDirtyDurian]

  On 8/13/2023 at 7:28 AM, cowslip said:

QED

Expand  

Mea culpa

[Marc26]

  On 8/13/2023 at 5:59 AM, cowslip said:

Yes I would agree with that - though not as a generalisation any more - the country has changed in the past years  obviously voted against this status quo in huge numbers.

I agree that the powers that be are increasingly worried about this and use the crazy constitution (and LM laws) as tools of control.

I suppose the use of fealty put me off but it makes more sense when you consider the roots seem to be in "Sakdina", vestiges of which still seem to linger on and that was indeed a system based on fealty.

As Einstein said: - “Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth”

Expand  

Here are what I think are two good comparisons

I grew up very poor 

No hot water in cold Boston for years

Electricity shut off often

Mom going without food so we could eat at time

But from an early age we were encouraged to read

Reading was free

My Mom read and me and my brothers were voracious readers from the moment we could read

Now go to my BIL

We were at a bookstore once and he told my wife he was going to wait outside

Too many books were giving him a headache

Again, back to growing up poor

My Mom would save and on special occasions we'd go to a nice restaurant 

And I never felt out of place. We had money to afford the meal so we belonged

My wife's best friend is a chef. Lived in a few countries and is still deathly shy to meet us in any upmarket restaurant/bar

Because he was conditioned in Thailand to feel "less than" and not to move outside his sort of "caste" there

That's all by design, IMO

[cowslip]

  On 8/13/2023 at 8:11 AM, Marc26 said:

Here are what I think are two good comparisons

I grew up very poor 

No hot water in cold Boston for years

Electricity shut off often

Mom going without food so we could eat at time

But from an early age we were encouraged to read

Reading was free

My Mom read and me and my brothers were voracious readers from the moment we could read

Now go to my BIL

We were at a bookstore once and he told my wife he was going to wait outside

Too many books were giving him a headache

Again, back to growing up poor

My Mom would save and on special occasions we'd go to a nice restaurant 

And I never felt out of place. We had money to afford the meal so we belonged

My wife's best friend is a chef. Lived in a few countries and is still deathly shy to meet us in any upmarket restaurant/bar

Because he was conditioned in Thailand to feel "less than" and not to move outside his sort of "caste" there

That's all by design, IMO

Expand  

i.e. Sakdina

[oldschooler]

  On 8/12/2023 at 4:10 PM, Marc26 said:

Have you ever tried to have an in depth conversation with a Thai about their politics or anything for that matter??

I actually think Thai people are very intelligent in their own way

But their education system was designed to make them lack curiosity and to not question anything

So that leads to a lack of depth in their overall knowledge of things and the world

The only in depth conversations I have had with Thais are Thais that have gone to International schools and have a different mindset than Thais taught in public schools

Expand  

Fact: Average ( non- Chinese) Thai IQ outside Bangkok around 85. That’s Quite Stupid & Impossible to build any advanced civilisation or any democracy with,especially with dire rote learning education here,  like all of black Africa in fact. In contrast Bangkok University Students IQ very high around 115-120. Yeah you guessed…. principally Chinese Thais…..who form nearly the entire Thai elite.