All Covid restrictions lifted in England as experts warn of disastrous consequences

[Jerry8888]

Stonker

 

Because despite what the uninformed say (and if they were informed they wouldn't be saying it) they're either not "tried and tested" or they're tried, tested and failed.

If they've been tried and tested, name the trial, show the data.

If not, well .....

 

 

There is enough information on YouTube, it was also on TV and on different pharmacy websites, but who reads that and you have to look for it and don't forget the different languages.

You must search....

 

[JohninDublin]

1 hour ago, Soidog said:

I agree that more could and should have been done. I’m not debating that point at all and my main rebuttal isn’t the number is wrong, they are just not reported the same and hence comparison is difficult. 
 

As for Phuket and U.K., It’s not as simple as not allowing a load of “foreigners” in to your country (Phuket) compared to hundreds, if not thousands of U.K. nationals returning from India and other countries. If these were Indian nationals then fine. But many were born and bred and hold valid British passports. Now, we could have done what Thailand did and insist on quarantine for returning nationals, but the scale of British out of the country compared to Thais would have been many times more.  
 

When you say the U.K. comes last in every metric with the exception of the vaccination (invention, development and production) and roll out. Well be fair, that’s at least half the problem the U.K. is near the top on isn’t it? And when you compare it to every other island nation over 1 million, surely that’s an unfair comparison. There are over 1 million live in Greater Manchester alone. 12 Million in Greater London. As this is a volumetric issue, shouldn’t we look for an island nation with at least 50% of the U.K. (34 million). And shouldn’t we also consider population density as well as this thing spreads by air?

 
Taiwan 24 million and smaller land mass is a reasonable comparison, but again, how many Taiwanese were out of the country looking to get home from India?

Cyprus 1.2 million  

Australia 26 million and massive country

As for Denmark, there are many many reasons why it’s a success  including geographical, demographics and political.    Denmark is a nation consisting of many islands of which 50-70ish are populated  it has a relatively small land border with Germany 68km long. The Northern Irish border alone is nearly 500km and try locking that down and we know what that can cause? If you don’t think that’s a factor then compare it to a small place like Switzerland that borders 5 countries. 
The population density is also low in Denmark compared to the U.K.  

Finally I’d say the Danes respect their government more than the U.K. does. As an example, when schools were closed, people were told they would close in 4 days time but the government asked people to do the right thing and keep children away. The very next day the schools were empty. In the U.K. everyone puts two fingers up at the government. They have always been seen as something to challenge and catch out and distrust. 
 

I could clearly go on and on, but I won’t!! 
 

Just to say. I do not disagree that the U.K. handling of the lockdown stage was poor and could have been a lot better. Boris Johnston has been a weak leader when we needed strength. The development and production and roll out of vaccination has been exemplary to the rest of the world. As for comparisons, we could debate this for years and years, and some people will. But for me my friend, I’ve said enough. Thanks for the debate. I enjoyed it. 

My point is that regardless of whether people are UK nationals or not, the gov, from a very early stage, should have screened EVERYONE entering the country. And in the case of those returning from India, that should have been double compulsory. We were both dismayed at the level of surveillance we underwent on our respective returns from TH. I think neither of us would have claimed exemption from screening just because we were citizens. OTOH, I think TH may have been excessive in quarantining all treturning nationals, bit to their credit, they did keep CV at low levels for a very long time. 

And I would strongly dispute your idea that my "1 million island" is an unfair comparison You invoke Manchester's population but how does that help your cause? I am very limited in my choices of island that have a population of over 1 mill, that has carried out more than 1 test per capita. There are only three. You mke the case thata if everyone tested as much as the UK, we would see higher figures for infections. Relying on Islands only, Cyprus says other wise. Forget about Islands. Take countries with a population of 1 mill plus that are not islands, and you have Denmark, Austria and UAE who are ahead of the UK for testing.  If your case is that if they tested as frequently we do, the true level of infections would show up in the figures. Yet we still have more reported infections.

There appears to be a lot of goal-post moving coming from you along the lines of, "You can't use this comparison becauseof the size, amount of testing, population density, wealth etc". You are actually being very unfair here. My criteria has always been single nation islands of over 1 mill that have border controls. Border controls and their use as a weapon is the only theme I hve in thois post,  There are a total of 21, Three, Indonesia, Japan and Phils have greater populations than the UK. The infection/death rate for each of these 1.1%/271 per mill, 0.7%/119 and 1.3%/241.

If you want to argue population density, in the case of Japan, the most inhabited island is Honshu, with 104 mill inhabitants, and the topography is such that 80% of these live within 10 miles of the sea. I am sure you have noticed how the urban sprawl diminishes and increases as a train goes from city to to city. Honshu is so densely populated that you can board the Shinkansen in Tokyo, arrive at Kobe (340 miles), and it's urbanised the whole distance such is the popuation density along the coast.

Japan have currently banned tourism (Olympics notwithstanding). All returnees and residents entering the country nee a pre-flight PCR test. Another on landing. Then they are taken to a quarantine hotel and retested three days later. If clear, they are then confined to their home for a further 10 days under surveillance of a smartphone app. If you don't have a smartphone, you have to buy or rent one at the Airport. They defend their borders and that is why Honshu, in spite of the edges being among the most densely populated places on earth, has only 10% per capita of the infections and 6% of the fatalities that the UK has. 

[Soidog]

33 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

My point is that regardless of whether people are UK nationals or not, the gov, from a very early stage, should have screened EVERYONE entering the country. And in the case of those returning from India, that should have been double compulsory. We were both dismayed at the level of surveillance we underwent on our respective returns from TH. I think neither of us would have claimed exemption from screening just because we were citizens. OTOH, I think TH may have been excessive in quarantining all treturning nationals, bit to their credit, they did keep CV at low levels for a very long time. 

And I would strongly dispute your idea that my "1 million island" is an unfair comparison You invoke Manchester's population but how does that help your cause? I am very limited in my choices of island that have a population of over 1 mill, that has carried out more than 1 test per capita. There are only three. You mke the case thata if everyone tested as much as the UK, we would see higher figures for infections. Relying on Islands only, Cyprus says other wise. Forget about Islands. Take countries with a population of 1 mill plus that are not islands, and you have Denmark, Austria and UAE who are ahead of the UK for testing.  If your case is that if they tested as frequently we do, the true level of infections would show up in the figures. Yet we still have more reported infections.

There appears to be a lot of goal-post moving coming from you along the lines of, "You can't use this comparison becauseof the size, amount of testing, population density, wealth etc". You are actually being very unfair here. My criteria has always been single nation islands of over 1 mill that have border controls. Border controls and their use as a weapon is the only theme I hve in thois post,  There are a total of 21, Three, Indonesia, Japan and Phils have greater populations than the UK. The infection/death rate for each of these 1.1%/271 per mill, 0.7%/119 and 1.3%/241.

If you want to argue population density, in the case of Japan, the most inhabited island is Honshu, with 104 mill inhabitants, and the topography is such that 80% of these live within 10 miles of the sea. I am sure you have noticed how the urban sprawl diminishes and increases as a train goes from city to to city. Honshu is so densely populated that you can board the Shinkansen in Tokyo, arrive at Kobe (340 miles), and it's urbanised the whole distance such is the popuation density along the coast.

Japan have currently banned tourism (Olympics notwithstanding). All returnees and residents entering the country nee a pre-flight PCR test. Another on landing. Then they are taken to a quarantine hotel and retested three days later. If clear, they are then confined to their home for a further 10 days under surveillance of a smartphone app. If you don't have a smartphone, you have to buy or rent one at the Airport. They defend their borders and that is why Honshu, in spite of the edges being among the most densely populated places on earth, has only 10% per capita of the infections and 6% of the fatalities that the UK has. 

Some excellent points there and I think all this additional data shows how complex a comparison can be. Either way. The mistakes have been made. Vaccines have been invented and manufactured and in the arms of millions. So all in all, I’m happy that I’m in the U.K.  lot worse places to be right now. 

[JohninDublin]

1 minute ago, Soidog said:

Some excellent points there and I think all this additional data shows how complex a comparison can be. Either way. The mistakes have been made. Vaccines have been invented and manufactured and in the arms of millions. So all in all, I’m happy that I’m in the U.K.  lot worse places to be right now. 

My apologies for being a compulsive number-cruncher.

Like yourself, I sincerely hope the UK can vax it's way out of this prob.

[Soidog]

23 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

My apologies for being a compulsive number-cruncher.

Like yourself, I sincerely hope the UK can vax it's way out of this prob.

No apologies needed. Good to have the debate and I always say there is nothing as good as good data to win a debate.

[Guevara]

6 hours ago, ThaiFoodGuy said:

I believe it's tribal at this point. It's the flag of their people. Here's an example:
https://twitter.com/davidhogg111/status/1393191013808754688?s=20

Well if it's on twitter it must be fact.

[ThaiFoodGuy]

20 minutes ago, Guevara said:

Well if it's on twitter it must be fact.

Not sure what you mean. I posted David Hogg's own tweet, I didn't quote someone talking about what David Hogg said. Are you insinuating David Hogg's opinion isn't factual?

[vlad]

10 hours ago, JohninDubin said:

Seeing all these comments about the UK, I will say once again, that much of their problems derive from having the most incompetent PM, possibly in UK history, and certainly in my lifetime. And before anybody tries to infer political bias, as far as my lifetime is concerned, the previous least competent holder of the office was Callaghan.

Having Bojo in charge, is like being in an Arctic log cabin in a a blizzard with him telling you to put more wood on the fire to stay warm, while completely ignoring that all the doors and windows are open. Is it any wonder that many got fed up with the restrictions when they were failing to pay dividends due to this incompetence.

Yesterday, the UK, which has 0.9% of the world's population, accounted for 11% of all new infections. That is 12X the per capita rate for the rest of the planet. Today, nearly all restrictions will be lifted in the UK. It's as if we seem to think that "winning" in the war on CV  is about which country can hurt itself the most.

Why are you constantly slagging off our Prime Minister JohninDublin ?. We are the first to fully open in the World, we were the 1st to put jabs into Arms, we have been the first to inoculate the old and People with ongoing health conditions, we left Europe when everyone else said it would not happen but Boris committed to it and we left. If you can only belittle the UK maybe you should not participate in this Thread.

[vlad]

We have just had a televised update from our PM and our two top Scientists all above and sincere. No lie's no promises and no BS. We were told yes the numbers are rising and it was likely to rise due to the Delta variant.  We still must take care and wear masks if you feel the need to wear one. On vaccines we were told Entry to clubs where mass crowds who are likely to gather will be expected to show proof of fully vaccination and its up to the Individual person to wear a face mask. anyone not providing this will most likely be refused Entry. The reasoning for this is we can contract the virus and pass it on to unvaccinated people, and its not fair on people who stuck to the rule's and took the vaccine when it was offered. Questions are being asked about this as a attack on people who refused the vaccine, but most have said yes its the correct decision. In my opinion its correct, why should the anti vackers expect to have the same rights as the ones who did the hard work who stuck rigidly to the rule's. Why should we wear masks to protect these who ignored all the advice and only thought about themselve's. We understand some cannot take the vaccine like pregnant woman but these will be Exempt.

[OnbekendeNederlander]

14 hours ago, Stonker said:

Because despite what the uninformed say (and if they were informed they wouldn't be saying it) they're either not "tried and tested" or they're tried, tested and failed.

If they've been tried and tested, name the trial, show the data.

If not, well .....

Look for yourself... There is info to find on the internet but not at MSN, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube.... 

If I tell you more then I get blocked... 

[TobyAndrews]

Anyone know?

If a person is infected with Covid and recovers, are they then immune to catching covid again?

Or what percent of recovered Covid victim catch Covid again?

[Guevara]

3 minutes ago, TobyAndrews said:

Anyone know?

If a person is infected with Covid and recovers, are they then immune to catching covid again?

Or what percent of recovered Covid victim catch Covid again?

In answer to your first question, yes you can contract Covid again. Hopefully the body should have built up sufficient antibodies to keep it in check but no guarantee especially if it is a different variant.

As to percentages, I'm not aware who has been doing any stats or number crunching but I'm sure someone has figures.

[Chaimai]

1 hour ago, Guevara said:

In answer to your first question, yes you can contract Covid again. Hopefully the body should have built up sufficient antibodies to keep it in check but no guarantee especially if it is a different variant.

As to percentages, I'm not aware who has been doing any stats or number crunching but I'm sure someone has figures.

 

 

To further expand on your point (and perhaps make numbers alone meaningless) take the cases of Sajid Javid and Andrew Marr. Both double jabbed, both got the virus again. The Secretary of State had the mildest of symptoms whilst the BBC journalist said he "thought he was dying" (although I don't think he was hospitalised. Marr has had multiple medical issues in the past, including cancer.

 

Numbers would show 50% had a bad reaction; reality is that MAYBE 100% of relatively fit people had a minimal reaction and 100% of people with health issues had a much worse reaction.....

[JohninDublin]

12 hours ago, vlad said:

Why are you constantly slagging off our Prime Minister JohninDublin ?. We are the first to fully open in the World, we were the 1st to put jabs into Arms, we have been the first to inoculate the old and People with ongoing health conditions, we left Europe when everyone else said it would not happen but Boris committed to it and we left. If you can only belittle the UK maybe you should not participate in this Thread.

Can I suggest that if you want to curtail my freedom of speech, you take it up with the mods? I did not realise that this was a forum that was only supposed to say nice things about Bojo. If you read through my posts, you will see that I have praised the UK for the furlough and the vaccine rollout. Do you think that thetre might be Thais on here who object to us criticising there gov.

We are not fully open to the world. I take it you have not heard of red and amber list countries? We were also not the first to put vaxxes into arms. Russia were nearly a month ahread of us with their Sputnik vax.

I am a dual national who is entitled to, and does vote in UK elections. Most of my family are in the UK. Notwithstanding your strange perception of free speech or what this forum is about, does that not give me a right to speak my mind on this subject? Why are you attacking me instead of my message? Could it be that my message and the facts that I have quoted actually stand up to scrutiny? 

I think in view of the above, I have every right to criticise Bojo.

[JohninDublin]

5 hours ago, TobyAndrews said:

Anyone know?

If a person is infected with Covid and recovers, are they then immune to catching covid again?

Or what percent of recovered Covid victim catch Covid again?

I heard on Sky News (UK) yesterday that 60% of new infections are among the fully vaxxed. However, the consequences tend to be much milder. A previous report a couple of weeks earlier, stared that 40% of those admitted to hospital in Bolton ith Delta were fully vaxxed.

The vax obviously has some merit, but it is looking increasingly like it is not the panacea we had all hope for.

[Soidog]

8 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

I heard on Sky News (UK) yesterday that 60% of new infections are among the fully vaxxed. However, the consequences tend to be much milder. A previous report a couple of weeks earlier, stared that 40% of those admitted to hospital in Bolton ith Delta were fully vaxxed.

The vax obviously has some merit, but it is looking increasingly like it is not the panacea we had all hope for.

Yes heard that. It was Patrick Vallance (Chief scientific advisor ) who said it? Apparently there was a report later on that said he made a mistake and he meant to say 60% of people admitted were unvaccinated. That was less scary and so Sky didn’t make it headlines! 
 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9805573/Sir-Patrick-Vallance-corrects-mistake-Covid-hospital-admissions.html

Edited July 20, 2021 by Soidog
Correction of name

[DontacoXII]

Good for them. It’s a balancing act of risks between getting extremely ill from covid or losing everything you’ve worked for your entire life. I’d wager many more people have lost everything due to shutdowns than have died of covid as the covid death reports count anyone who died and had covid whether it was the cause or not. I don’t understand that. People are waking up to the truth. 

[JohninDublin]

29 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Yes heard that. It was Patrick Vallance (Chief scientific advisor ) who said it? Apparently there was a report later on that said he made a mistake and he meant to say 60% of people admitted were unvaccinated. That was less scary and so Sky didn’t make it headlines! 
 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9805573/Sir-Patrick-Vallance-corrects-mistake-Covid-hospital-admissions.html

Thanks for that. I hate it when I misreport matters in case someone doubts my integrity.

[Soidog]

2 hours ago, JohninDubin said:

Thanks for that. I hate it when I misreport matters in case someone doubts my integrity.

It’s still concerning that 40% of people who are admitted to hospital have been double jabbed. I think, but don’t know, that it will be the usual mix of people with underlying medical problems and obesity ? 

[JohninDublin]

4 minutes ago, Soidog said:

It’s still concerning that 40% of people who are admitted to hospital have been double jabbed. I think, but don’t know, that it will be the usual mix of people with underlying medical problems and obesity ? 

Can't help you there. But it is a reasonable assumption.

[BlueSphinx]

9 hours ago, OnbekendeNederlander said:

Look for yourself... There is info to find on the internet but not at MSN, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube.... 

If I tell you more then I get blocked... 

The ThaiGerTalk Forum will not block you for posting information that goes against the common narrative, as long as you present it in a civil manner.  I am 'living proof' of that as instigator of the Controversial Covid Corner.

> https://thethaiger.com/talk/topic/2081-ccc-the-controversial-covid-corner/

[vlad]

23 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

Can't help you there. But it is a reasonable assumption.

I do not doubt your integrity John and no one is. I simply remarked you constantly criticize the UK every time you post on this thread. You are also wrong about Russia being the first to inject the Covid jab. Im surprised you didn't mention the worlds first patient to have the Covid jab was in fact originally from Enniskillen  her name was Margaret Keenan in Coventry Hospital.

Edited July 20, 2021 by vlad

[RuralSukhothai]

On 7/18/2021 at 10:00 PM, SickBuffalo said:

They don't have much choice. The British people are done with this now.

What Boris gets, that Health czars don't, is that there is no way to enforce a lockdown if even a large minority of the people are no longer willing to cooperate. The whole things falls apart when some are obeying and some are not.

People were surprisingly compliant last year. They mostly accepted the notion that it was necessary to stay inside for two weeks to "protect the NHS". It turned to be a little longer than that.

The UK will be hit hard by Delta, but that is just what has to happen. Almost everyone will be catching this thing over the next few months. The vaccinated will get through it okay, they won't need to be hospitalized. The unvaccinated will have a rougher ride, but they will be mostly young. Very few fat, diabetic, old, or otherwise vulnerable will have been stupid enough not to get vaccinated. There will be far fewer deaths than that pillock Neil Ferguson is predicting.

For a few months, other countries will close their borders to the UK, and the EU will make a big song and dance about how reckless the British are.

By October, however, the new natural immunity of the recovered, along with the acquired immunity of the vaccinated, will act as an effective block on spread and life can finally return to normal. Eventually, other countries will have to bite the bullet and do the same thing.

 

Normal [whatever that is] until the new and mutated resistant strains pop up. 

Then what?

[Objectivance]

On 7/19/2021 at 6:30 PM, ThaiFoodGuy said:

I believe it's tribal at this point. It's the flag of their people. Here's an example:
https://twitter.com/davidhogg111/status/1393191013808754688?s=20

Exactly. It rapidly turned into a bizarre cult. 

 

[SickBuffalo]

25 minutes ago, RuralSukhothai said:

Normal [whatever that is] until the new and mutated resistant strains pop up. 

Then what?

Delta will knock the stuffing out of the UK for a few months, hopefully the vaccines will mitigate the worst effects on individuals, a few thousand will die who might not otherwise have died this year, and everyone else walks away with natural immunity that will prevent other variants spreading.

Sad but the only way out of this if Western civilisation is incapable of doing a real, actual, everyone-stay-in-your-house-or-we-shoot lockdown for one month.